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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    my suggestion would be to ban automatic weapons and hand guns. no one "needs" them. nothing wrong with hunting and owning weapons for that. arming everyone to "protect" them is hardly an answer. how do you keep simple matters and disagreements from escalating to murder when people are fully armed? that is your answer? in the heat of the moment during a simple argument, what happens when someone has a gun? why is it necessary to be armed always? who are we protecting ourselves from? the government?
    As someone with a very "opinionated" spouse, I am well atuned to heated arguments. Everyone has them - the issue with arguments is that each person wants to be right and/or have the last word and in a heated argument - both people's pride and ego prevent them from letting the other win by having the last word... things keep escalating and with no one having a calm head or self control - the potential for violence is there.

    However, the majority of us won't cross the line into violence and the segment of our population that do are not representative of the majority of us.

    Alot of arguments are avoidable, some are not. You as a participant of an argument cannot control what the other partie(s) actions and attitudes will be but you can control your own. Self control would dictate that you can do your part in preventing the argument from reaching the boiling point by either walking away, calming the situation with your own words and actions, or other means to try to avoid violence.

    I believe we should be allowed to be armed always as protection from criminals..Criminals don't make appointments with their victims so only the criminal knows when a crime is going to occur - they occur on their schedule. The victim usually isn't privy to that knowledge.

    Hence why I believe someone should be always armed -- how many times being unarmed does it take to be a defenseless victim? Just one.

    Also, in my opinion, being armed is a deterrent to those who would wish to do us harm - if we look at these mass shootings - they all happen where no one is armed because these criminals are cowards. They go for easy prey versus prey that can fight back.

    Having been in the military and studied many historical battles, knowing how your enemy thinks is very vital to victory. You put yourself in the mindset of your enemy and you can see things alot more clearer... If you were wanting to rack up dozens of casualties, where would you go? If you wanted to break into a house, which one would you break into? One that you knew 100% the target was unarmed or one you knew 100% was armed? Most criminals do value their own lives so they don't want to check out no more than you do. Obviously, some are exceptions but for the most part, criminals are after gain for themselves.

    As for government, our founders believed it to be a necessary evil...all governments are evil by their nature - filled with power hungry, self serving beaurocrats who all have the potential to misuse their power - just look around the world and anyone can see multiple examples of governments that abuse their power and abuse their citizenry. In layman's term, it's called tyranny.

    It was tyranny that gave birth to this nation in the first place. To say that our government is immune from the same cancer of tyranny that other governments have fallen into is simple blindness - the second amendment was put into our bill of rights because the founding fathers knew even the government that they fought, bled, and died to create could become the same tyranny they just freed themselves from and in their wisdom of checks and balances created the right of the American people to be armed as the ultimate check to the government should they cross the line into tyranny.

    The second amendment can be thanked for the prevention of the mainland United States from not being invaded by Japan in World War II. The Japanese military knew it would be suicidal for them to invade us because "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass".

    Again, look up the history of our nation, the founding fathers... the same Constitution that gives us the vast freedoms and liberties we as the American citizen have is the same Constitution that cages the government with limited powers. The Constitution is a cage to the Government and like a beast in a cage (the founders called it a necessary evil) the beast will always try to find a way out of the cage.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    As someone with a very "opinionated" spouse, I am well atuned to heated arguments. Everyone has them - the issue with arguments is that each person wants to be right and/or have the last word and in a heated argument - both people's pride and ego prevent them from letting the other win by having the last word... things keep escalating and with no one having a calm head or self control - the potential for violence is there.

    However, the majority of us won't cross the line into violence and the segment of our population that do are not representative of the majority of us.

    Alot of arguments are avoidable, some are not. You as a participant of an argument cannot control what the other partie(s) actions and attitudes will be but you can control your own. Self control would dictate that you can do your part in preventing the argument from reaching the boiling point by either walking away, calming the situation with your own words and actions, or other means to try to avoid violence.

    I believe we should be allowed to be armed always as protection from criminals..Criminals don't make appointments with their victims so only the criminal knows when a crime is going to occur - they occur on their schedule. The victim usually isn't privy to that knowledge.

    Hence why I believe someone should be always armed -- how many times being unarmed does it take to be a defenseless victim? Just one.

    Also, in my opinion, being armed is a deterrent to those who would wish to do us harm - if we look at these mass shootings - they all happen where no one is armed because these criminals are cowards. They go for easy prey versus prey that can fight back.

    Having been in the military and studied many historical battles, knowing how your enemy thinks is very vital to victory. You put yourself in the mindset of your enemy and you can see things alot more clearer... If you were wanting to rack up dozens of casualties, where would you go? If you wanted to break into a house, which one would you break into? One that you knew 100% the target was unarmed or one you knew 100% was armed? Most criminals do value their own lives so they don't want to check out no more than you do. Obviously, some are exceptions but for the most part, criminals are after gain for themselves.

    As for government, our founders believed it to be a necessary evil...all governments are evil by their nature - filled with power hungry, self serving beaurocrats who all have the potential to misuse their power - just look around the world and anyone can see multiple examples of governments that abuse their power and abuse their citizenry. In layman's term, it's called tyranny.

    It was tyranny that gave birth to this nation in the first place. To say that our government is immune from the same cancer of tyranny that other governments have fallen into is simple blindness - the second amendment was put into our bill of rights because the founding fathers knew even the government that they fought, bled, and died to create could become the same tyranny they just freed themselves from and in their wisdom of checks and balances created the right of the American people to be armed as the ultimate check to the government should they cross the line into tyranny.

    The second amendment can be thanked for the prevention of the mainland United States from not being invaded by Japan in World War II. The Japanese military knew it would be suicidal for them to invade us because "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass".

    Again, look up the history of our nation, the founding fathers... the same Constitution that gives us the vast freedoms and liberties we as the American citizen have is the same Constitution that cages the government with limited powers. The Constitution is a cage to the Government and like a beast in a cage (the founders called it a necessary evil) the beast will always try to find a way out of the cage.
    Mate i heard a statistic today on TV from an american that only ONCE yes only once has a gunman been shot by an armed observer in any serious shooting spree in the states, that blows the theory above totally out of the water...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  3. #53
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    Unfortunately, tragedy goes the other way too. In 2004 - we lost a mountain biker, when he went too fast on a overgrown section of local singletrack. He washed-out his front tire, and the crash threw him into a dead, fallen Manzanita tree. One of the protruding branches went right through his neck and severed his jugular...one of the WORST ways to die. RIP...
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Thought you didn't want to debate...

    To your original point, yes, it was great to get out on saturday morning and spend a few hours in the trees. Things like what happened friday make me understand why some people get off the grid.
    Haha yeah, I shouldn't be tempted here! Glad you got to blow off some steam on the saddle. If the wind weren't blowing frigid air right now I might be doing the same.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    The reason i mentioned it in an earlier thread and didnt continue with it was to show i think its an area that has to be addressed but also because i have bought it up in another thread to which serious debate followed and many were upset that the gun debate was detracting from the tragedy.

    For the record im not anti guns, my father was a Taxidermist and shooter and i grew up shooting and had a house full of guns..
    Im for people to take greater responsibility with the security of them, and im all for the banning of automatic and semi automatic weapons and for the banning of handguns.
    All three are banned here and we have had one mass shooting in 25 years and we have our fair share of lunatics here.

    Ive asked in another thread could somebody give me the reasons and uses of semi and automatic weapons BAR law enforcement in society and im yet to get one answer..

    Better work needs to be done with mental illness
    Tougher gun regulations are needed
    The banning of handguns and autos a semis are needed imo
    Tougher home security is needed with weapons in general
    Tougher screening is needed when buying weapons

    Just my opinion...
    The reason for ownership of these type of firearms is simple, its to protect your familiy from the criminals that possess them. A bolt action is no match for a crazed gunman with an AK47... Just sayin
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

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  7. #57
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    ...............

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    Last edited by jrm; 12-17-2012 at 08:54 AM. Reason: delete
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    The reason for ownership of these type of firearms is simple, its to protect your familiy from the criminals that possess them. A bolt action is no match for a crazed gunman with an AK47... Just sayin
    How many criminals bust into your house with an AK47 (yes, I saw you live in Salinas)? It doesn't happen to me too often.

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  10. #60
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    I was brought up with guns - lots of many loaded guns (hanging all over the walls) and learned a healthy respect for them as a child. My family is filled with both liberals and conservatives and yep they both own lots of guns (my hippy cousins even have AK47s) - hard for some to believe given prevailing stereotypes, I'd imagine.

    So, I'm very conflicted about gun control. That said, why is it nobody ever commits a crime like this with a bolt action, lever action, hunting shotgun or six shooter? At some point we need to address this issue - what level of weaponry is enough? A poster in Salinas lives in the 'hood and needs to fight criminal with AKs - what happens when that's not enough, does he get a stinger missile?
    Last edited by SS Hack; 12-17-2012 at 09:16 AM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post

    ...

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    ...blah blah blah...
    A killer like this is hell bent on causing as much devastation as he can, in the shortest amount of time. Do you honestly believe this type of reasoning goes through a killers mind during these attacks? If so, you are as delusional as he is.

    Yet another discussion goes straight to the **** bin. Lost already are the legacy of the victims, because our society would rather talk about the perp, and what caused it, and why, and how he was raised, and how he became a victim, and so on and so on....and we'll renew heated debates on gun control and mental illness....and all the while the families of the victims will fade away in silence. There is no news anymore. Its all sensationalism and we gobble it up and keep craving more.
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  12. #62
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    a bike ride and Jane's Addiction's - standing in the shower - loud.
    it is just so profoundly wrong to have to bury a child.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    The reason for ownership of these type of firearms is simple, its to protect your familiy from the criminals that possess them. A bolt action is no match for a crazed gunman with an AK47... Just sayin
    Ah, yes. The escalating cycle of sales that the gun industry thrives on.

    It is the arms dealer's dream business model: selling arms to both sides of a conflict.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous Man View Post
    A killer like this is hell bent on causing as much devastation as he can, in the shortest amount of time. Do you honestly believe this type of reasoning goes through a killers mind during these attacks? If so, you are as delusional as he is.

    Yet another discussion goes straight to the **** bin. Lost already are the legacy of the victims, because our society would rather talk about the perp, and what caused it, and why, and how he was raised, and how he became a victim, and so on and so on....and we'll renew heated debates on gun control and mental illness....and all the while the families of the victims will fade away in silence. There is no news anymore. Its all sensationalism and we gobble it up and keep craving more.
    Yes, this individual was looking for the weakest victims he could find.
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  15. #65
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    So, to tie guns back into mountain biking somehow. Any of you ever carried a gun while riding deep in the back country?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    How many criminals bust into your house with an AK47 (yes, I saw you live in Salinas)? It doesn't happen to me too often.
    Well excuse me for wear I live, we can't all live in "THE CITY" non do we want to. But it is my right to arm myself anyway I see fit. It's also my responsiblity to secure my firearms in a proper manner. As a veteran I've fought to secure these rights for all Americans, regardless of the city they live in.
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    So, to tie guns back into mountain biking somehow. Any of you ever carried a gun while riding deep in the back country?
    of course not....

    I don't want to kill a bear...so I carry spray instead. plus it is way lighter.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    of course not....

    I don't want to kill a bear...so I carry spray instead. plus it is way lighter.
    Maybe a carbon fiber gun for weight weenies?

    (before I get a response on how that would never work please know that what I wrote above was a joke =) )

  19. #69
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    Cabela's: Smith & Wesson BODYGUARDŽ .380 Semiautomatic Pistol

    Only carried while in the back-country alone. Super small and light. 6+1 plus laser. with a ankle hostler is it like it's not even there.

    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    So, to tie guns back into mountain biking somehow. Any of you ever carried a gun while riding deep in the back country?
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Cabela's: Smith & Wesson BODYGUARDŽ .380 Semiautomatic Pistol

    Only carried while in the back-country alone. Super small and light. 6+1 plus laser. with a ankle hostler is it like it's not even there.
    why do you carry it when in back country? what are you defending yourself against? serious question

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    what are you defending yourself against? serious question
    Whatever I need to. Say I fell and broke a leg. With other stuff in my pack I would have shelter and dinner, at a random squrrils expense. There is no cell service out there. You are on your own.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I was brought up with guns - lots of many loaded guns (hanging all over the walls) and learned a healthy respect for them as a child. My family is filled with both liberals and conservatives and yep they both own lots of guns (my hippy cousins even have AK47s) - hard for some to believe given prevailing stereotypes, I'd imagine.

    So, I'm very conflicted about gun control. That said, why is it nobody ever commits a crime like this with a bolt action, lever action, hunting shotgun or six shooter? At some point we need to address this issue - what level of weaponry is enough? A poster in Salinas lives in the 'hood and needs to fight criminal with AKs - what happens when that's not enough, does he get a stinger missile?
    I'm fine with you having a different opinion on our constitutional right, the defintion of the second ammendment, or tire tread design, but why do you feel compelled to belittle the town I live in? As I said in a previous post "I've paid dearly for this right" From the HOOD, Thx
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  23. #73
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    Anybody stop to consider the media's influence on this? If we all had to read about it in the newspaper tomorrow, or it only got 20 seconds on the newscast at 6 and 11...would we see as many of these types of shootings? Consider that for a minute...Why do we keep giving these shooters power by giving them fame?. I am not minimizing the impact to the families and their community, but I question how it all may motivate people that are wired to act this way.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Whatever I need to. Say I fell and broke a leg. With other stuff in my pack I would have shelter and dinner, at a random squrrils expense. There is no cell service out there. You are on your own.
    so killer squirrels????

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Whatever I need to. Say I fell and broke a leg. With other stuff in my pack I would have shelter and dinner, at a random squrrils expense. There is no cell service out there. You are on your own.
    Really so you gonna shoot the squirrel, the drag your sorry ass over to the squirrel, then pick it up.

    You will also of course gather the kindiling and fire wood while slithering around on the ground....

    If it is any sort of a real break femur or a tib/fib you will be immobilized.

    Yeah just ride with a friend or two makes a lot better sense.

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