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  1. #1
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    Toyota Dealership Rustled My Jimmies

    Wife is looking for a new ( used ) vehicle, and we narrowed it to either the Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey. The local, well established Toyota Dealership has both, so we decide to head there to do our research.

    They had just taken in a 2011 Sienna with low miles, and from the southern part of the country. I mention we are thinking about the two vans, and stated I needed something capable of towing a larger pop-up camper, bikes....blah blah blah. He stated that the Sienna had a 3500lb towing capacity, and would have no issues with my requirements. His comment was "Isn't a pop-up like 750lbs", to which I clearly stated it was well over that amount, and when geared up, would be pushing over 2000lbs. He saw no issue with that, and carried on with his sales pitch.

    He appeared to know his facts, and knew his way around the different features of the Sienna. He also stated that the Sienna was redesigned in 2010, and that the 2011 model we were looking at was not the first year of the new model ( always a great idea to not buy the first model year after redesign ). We test drove both the Sienna and Odyssey, and decided to buy the Sienna.

    Part of the negotiation of the final sale was for the dealership to install a Class III CURT hitch w/ 2" reciever, as I would require the capabilities a Class III hitch provided. The sale was finalized, and we headed home with the van.

    Being the OCD ADD Engineer that I am, I jumped on the interwebz and started looking into the Sienna a little closer. I discovered pretty quickly that 2010 was not the first year of the new redesign, rather the 2011. Not really a big deal, but in all honesty I would have looked for a 2012 a bit harded had I been given the correct info from the dealer.

    I then start researching the towing capabilities of the 2011+ Sienna, and discover that the Sienna is indeed capable of towing up to 3500lbs, but only if equipped w/ the OPTIONAL "Tow Prep Package". This is a factory installed package that was not standard on the LE model, but was standard on all Siennas up until 2011. Being a Honda guy, I expected to be able to utilize the interwebz to help me determine a method to identify the package was included. I have always been able to find everything I needed when Honda fact finding.

    After hours of reading threads and articles, I am no closer to finding my answer. I decided to wait until I dropped the van off at the dealer service center, and let them determine if I have the towing package. I again stated to the service advisor that I really need to know if the package is available, as I would be exceeding the stated 1,500lb limit if my van was not equipped with the towing package. A few hours went by, and I placed a call to request the information. The service advisor stated " It does not having the towing package, but my Service Manager said it is only required to tow more than 3500lbs, anything above that requires the package. He also said all vans shipped to WI have the package."

    It was at that moment that water vapor started slowy shooting from my ears. I knew this "Service Manager" had no f'ing clue what he was talking about. I didn't RAGE on the phone, because I knew the service advisor was only relaying the message, but I advised him to do a little fact checking, as the information I was being given from the TOYOTA dealership didn't match any documentation. I calmly said "It might be in your best interest to open the Owners Manual, and call Toyota Customer Care, then call me back with your new answer. Because you are currently misrepresenting your products". He agreed, but stated "Interesting that my Service Manager and Toyota are stating two different specs." Yeah, REAL F@#CKING INTERESTING!!

    I then placed a call to the salesman I dealt with, and advised him of the situation. His response was typical, even comical. " You know, that package is just a transmission cooler, those are easy to install." The water vapor was again starting to make it's way out of my ears ( I really hate it when I know the correct answer, and someone insists on arguing with me. Bot because I am a ego JERK, but because I have already put the time in to fact checking and cross referencing ). I mentioned the items included with the package, and that they were not something that could just be added with a reasonable cost ( it is only a $350 package from Toyota, but if not included at the factory, it is well over $2k to add after the fact ). " You know Jon, I have been doing this for 20 years, and before that I was a mechanic. That other stuff isn't needed, you will be fine. I think I know what it takes", replied my experienced car salesman.

    With a calm voice I replied, "Are you implying you don't trust that the engineers at Toyota added this for a good reason? Don't you find it odd they stopped including it standard in 2011, but are now back to including it on all 2014 models? I don't know that it is typical marketing fluff to upsell a package. I would assume they felt it was necessary, or they wouldn't have added it." His response was typical, based on his years of trying to weezel his way out of sticky situations.

    Right now I am awaiting the solution from the Service Manager with regards to ensuring that I am not limited to the 1500lb capacity. "We will make it right!"

    Cliffs:
    Trusted a used car salesman (doh!!)

    Was sold a van that was stated to have 3500lb towing capacity, and found that the capacity was only 1500lbs.

    Know more about the van within 24 hours then apparently ANYONE at my local dealership.

    I trusted that the dealership knew the correct facts, and am now involved in a situation that I was trying to avoid by buying from a TOYOTA dealership.

    RANT/

  2. #2
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    the towing package is an additional external transmission cooler and a quart or so more of fluid to fill it

    you don't need it unless you tow often, and also in very hot weather or a lot of hills

    it is not 2k after the fact, you can install one pretty cheap. the only hard part is accurately measuring the final level of the tranmission fluid post-install


    search Yotatech...a lot of 3rd gen 4runner owners added an external cooler, lots of advice there

    TRD Transmission Cooler - 3rd Gen 4Runner - YotaTech Forums

    search for more than just this link I pasted

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    the towing package is an additional external transmission cooler and a quart or so more of fluid to fill it

    you don't need it unless you tow often, and also in very hot weather or a lot of hills
    I intentionally excluded the Tow Package components from my story, as a trap to draw the know-it-all's out of the woodwork. It worked exactly as planned. I caught my first fly in less than 10 mintues.

    The Tow package includes a Engine Oil Cooler, a Larger Radiator, and heavy duty cooling fans. In previous years a larger battery and alternator were also part of the package.

    I would assume that by once again including the Tow Package as standard on all 2014 Siennas, they must feel the majority of them require additional cooling?

  4. #4
    Ride More, Whine Less
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    Toyota Dealership Rustled My Jimmies

    Agree the source of the issue is the transmission cooler. Same thing applies to pickups. Definitely add a cooler if you are going to tow.

  5. #5
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    tl;dr

    In 76-77 I was in high school and worked at a Lincoln-Mercury dealership across the street from the school as a parts guy.

    One day this car had come in for a state inspection, the mechanic went into the glove box looking for the registration, and found a dildo. So he got the bright idea to tape it to his leg so when he put his foot up like Captain Morgan, a few inches of it would show below his pants cuff. Then he untied his shoe, walked into the business office, started talking to the hot young receptionist, and put his foot up on a chair or something to tie his shoe.

    He was gone before the day was out but it had to have been worth it, other than touching that nasty rubber schlong. And yes, obviously the car belonged to a dude, because women have purses so they don't have to carry their dildo in the glove box when they decide to take it on a road show.
    But if you close your eyes it becomes so easy to see

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I intentionally excluded the Tow Package components from my story, as a trap to draw the know-it-all's out of the woodwork. It worked exactly as planned. I caught my first fly in less than 10 mintues.

    The Tow package includes a Engine Oil Cooler, a Larger Radiator, and heavy duty cooling fans. In previous years a larger battery and alternator were also part of the package.

    I would assume that by once again including the Tow Package as standard on all 2014 Siennas, they must feel the majority of them require additional cooling?
    So what is your point of this thread? Troll?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I intentionally excluded the Tow Package components from my story, as a trap to draw the know-it-all's out of the woodwork. It worked exactly as planned. I caught my first fly in less than 10 mintues.

    The Tow package includes a Engine Oil Cooler, a Larger Radiator, and heavy duty cooling fans. In previous years a larger battery and alternator were also part of the package.

    I would assume that by once again including the Tow Package as standard on all 2014 Siennas, they must feel the majority of them require additional cooling?
    what the hell does this mean ? why you gotta rant at me ?

    a trap to draw the know-it-alls....man you are sort of whacked, and i am so sorry I popped in here. holy crap. yes i am a know it all for sure, and toyota and aisin transmissions specifically, I do know it ALL.



    if you want specifics

    your only goal is to try to keep the transmission hot side temp at or near 184 degrees and below as much as possible for the life of the transmission. I could go on and on and on about toyota WS fluid and Aisin transmissions, enough to blow your mind with -garbage- and more endless transmission facts

    if you are not happy with the dealer go to another one.

    if you want a sienna w/o a tow package get a scanguage II and program an x-gauge to read the hot TFT1 and cold side TFT2 of the tranny fluid and drive accordingly, try to not get it too hot, or you need to increase the service intervals for the tranny.

    all you have to do is install a friggin in-line tranny cooler and be done with it. maybe cover it up in winter because your mileage may suffer if it doesn't get warm enough in winter. average temp for the tranny will be ~122-140 (most driving) ~184(hard driving)

    or just don't get boned by used car salesman, that seems to be a sticky problem with you

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    So what is your point of this thread? Troll?
    It was meant as more of a joke, but I see it rustled a few jimmies.

    127.0.0.1;

    Why would Toyota feel the need to add an Engine Oil Cooler, but not an external Tranny cooler? What is the purpose of the larger fans? I would guess they must have done a group buy on these parts, and just wanted to throw them on to get rid of them?

    Your response with regards to the Transmission cooler the the typical "Pep-boys" over the counter parts guy response. That is why I am asking about the additional equipment.

  9. #9
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    The problem is a self-identified OCD ADD Engineer type did his research after buying the junk the used car salesman was spewing out his pie hole, rather than before. You knew that what you wanted was one of two vehicles, and you knew you were going to go look - maybe buy one of these two vehicles, yet you didn't do your homework in advance. WAAA. Live and learn.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    STUPID RANT/
    So in short, you didn't do your own due diligence and instead relied on the assurances of a Used Car Salesman to make what is supposed to be a decision based in facts. Now the anger you should direct at yourself is being directed at the afore mentioned USED CAR SALESMAN all the while proclaiming yourself an engineer like it makes you appear to be more intelligent than the USED CAR SALESMAN that got one over on you. Seems reasonable, let your wife make important purchasing decisions from now on.

  11. #11
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    tl;dr

    Cliff's Notes version?

  12. #12
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    Toyota Dealership Rustled My Jimmies

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    It was meant as more of a joke, but I see it rustled a few jimmies.

    127.0.0.1;

    Why would Toyota feel the need to add an Engine Oil Cooler, but not an external Tranny cooler? What is the purpose of the larger fans? I would guess they must have done a group buy on these parts, and just wanted to throw them on to get rid of them?

    Your response with regards to the Transmission cooler the the typical "Pep-boys" over the counter parts guy response. That is why I am asking about the additional equipment.
    This is my speculation having owned a Toyota sienna and a prior mini van (Chevy venture). Air flow into the engine compartment sucks with the radically sloped hood. There is minimal intake and the van seems to run hotter than expected in summer heat, traffic and idling outside shopping centers with a heavy electronic load (gps, tv, iPads, etc). Coolers increase volume of oils and increase their lifespan. With fuel economy restrictions, one has to balance weight to benefit. Perhaps they have learned the transmission is fine but the engine oil was cooking.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    So in short, you didn't do your own due diligence and instead relied on the assurances of a Used Car Salesman to make what is supposed to be a decision based in facts. Now the anger you should direct at yourself is being directed at the afore mentioned USED CAR SALESMAN all the while proclaiming yourself an engineer like it makes you appear to be more intelligent than the USED CAR SALESMAN that got one over on you. Seems reasonable, let your wife make important purchasing decisions from now on.
    +1.

  14. #14
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    Toyota Dealership Rustled My Jimmies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Beam View Post
    tl;dr

    Cliff's Notes version?
    He wanted to troll. Feel free to play along.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Beam View Post
    tl;dr

    Cliff's Notes version?
    Another idiot suckered in by used car salesman.

  16. #16
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    Q: How do you know when a salesman is lying to you?

    A: His lips are moving and there's words coming out of his mouth.
    Rocktoberfest 2014 edit here
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladmo View Post
    The problem is a self-identified OCD ADD Engineer type did his research after buying the junk the used car salesman was spewing out his pie hole, rather than before. You knew that what you wanted was one of two vehicles, and you knew you were going to go look - maybe buy one of these two vehicles, yet you didn't do your homework in advance. WAAA. Live and learn.
    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    So in short, you didn't do your own due diligence and instead relied on the assurances of a Used Car Salesman to make what is supposed to be a decision based in facts. Now the anger you should direct at yourself is being directed at the aforementioned USED CAR SALESMAN all the while proclaiming yourself an engineer like it makes you appear to be more intelligent than the USED CAR SALESMAN that got one over on you. Seems reasonable, let your wife make important purchasing decisions from now on.
    this sums it up.

  18. #18
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    Jesus, joshonda. At least make your trolls fun.
    Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  19. #19
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    Back in the day, one of the questions that were asked of potential Nixon voters was; "would you buy a used car from this man?"
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladmo View Post
    The problem is a self-identified OCD ADD Engineer type did his research after buying the junk the used car salesman was spewing out his pie hole, rather than before. You knew that what you wanted was one of two vehicles, and you knew you were going to go look - maybe buy one of these two vehicles, yet you didn't do your homework in advance. WAAA. Live and learn.
    +1 to this. Knowing what you want and if it works is part of the homework before you buy. I know I went through this just last month. I would never trust a car sales assoc. not even for new cars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    the big aussie rep bomb is comin your way

  21. #21
    check your six
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    Joshonda making a thread to bash Toyota? lol...
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  22. #22
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    It's funny how the mind tells the eye what to see.

    That's two of you now who called jons-honda "josh-honda".
    Rocktoberfest 2014 edit here
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    It's funny how the mind tells the eye what to see.

    That's two of you now who called jons-honda "josh-honda".
    Yeah, there's an illusionist who made a career out of this.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 08-06-2014 at 12:11 AM.
    Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    It's funny how the mind tells the eye what to see.

    That's two of you now who called jons-honda "josh-honda".
    ...or "Jon's Honda".

    Maybe he actually works for Honda (and already owns one) but was sent out to poop all over Toyota.
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  25. #25
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    So jon, are your Jimmies still rustled?
    Let's eat Ted
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