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  1. #1
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    Scottish Independence

    I was asked how the vote was going so for anyone who's interested:

    Right now I would say that the momentum is with the SNP/separatists and whatever happens I think the vote will be close. The polls suggest a narrow win for the YES camp and from the general mood that feels about right to me.

    Once people start to get caught up in patriotic jingoism they are likely to go along with separatist plans despite any logical arguments against them. The YES campaign has been characterised by confidence and increasing positivity about what Scotland can achieve unfettered by Westminster. By contrast most of the noise from the NO camp is scaremongering, not helped by mishandling of the debate. To begin with it was as if they just ignored it and hoped it would go away giving way to increasingly panicked looking moves, like jetting the Prime Minister and other top politicians up last week to campaign, which only served to highlight the fact that they never come here the rest of the time.

    And that I think sums up how we got here. For decades the government in Westminster has either ignored or taken for granted the views of the people of Scotland and they're paying for it. Because Scotland is too small to make much of an impact in national elections and so far away from Britain's centre of power in London I think they felt safe in doing what they liked. My guess is that they didn't take seriously the idea that Scots might get fed up with it and walk away. That light bulb is now on but it's probably too late.

    So the facts? Well, that's just it. No one knows what they are! At the beginning of the debate there were serous questions over currency, the economy, defence etc and we've all listened carefully to the detailed answers to none of them. We still have no idea what currency an intendant Scotland would use or how the changes will effect our pockets. From beginning to end all we've had from the YES camp is 'I'll be great' and from the NO camp 'Oh no it won't' and the truth is no one knows. It's a total gamble.

    Sometimes you have to take risks though. Maybe it would work out well but from where I'm sitting it looks to me like there are relatively slight gains to be had from independence but potentially a lot to loose. Unfortunately, in a democracy we let ordinary people make these major decisions, which I've never thought a particularly good idea.

    If I sound like a solid NO I should point out that I have always been an SNP voter. In fact I stood as a candidate for the SNP nearly thirty years ago. Man, am I that old? :0( But over the last few weeks I've been swithering and feel more likely to vote NO than YES on Thursday. Why the switch? A combination of factors but one of the things I'm very uncomfortable with is the fact it looks like a very close vote.

    Independence would be a huge change, one of the biggest shifts in British history for hundreds of years, and I think that if you are going to take a step like that it should be something that is backed by most of the people in Scotland. I'm not comfortable about going into such a situation with half of the country against it. That looks to me like a recipe for division and friction for generations to come.

    On a lighter note, as you can imagine there has been a regular flow of campaign junk through the letterbox but the leaflet I received yesterday was brilliant! Not because of what it said, I don't know what it said and the reason for that is that it's in Chinese!!

    I've got nothing against the Chinese, I like Chinese people, my brother-in-law is Chinese, but I'm not Chinese. There is obviously some big office somewhere that thinks my second name sounds a bit like it might be Chinese so, in the silly desire to be politically correct, reckons they'd better give me the leaflet in Chinese, just in case. Pretty idiotic considering any Chinese person who's been here long enough to be entitled to vote has almost certainly grasped English by now anyway ;0) Don't you just love politicians....

    Scottish Independence-002-2-.jpg

    Scottish Independence-001-2-.jpg

  2. #2
    Perpetual n00b
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    How does this affect North Sea oil & gas operations?
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  3. #3
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    If I wasn't a stupid American, I might be thinking this is a political thread that should be binned. Anyways, carry on...
    Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    How does this affect North Sea oil & gas operations?
    Who knows. In practical terms, probably very little. Most of the support infrastructure is in Scotland anyway I beleive, they'll just argue about where the money goes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Who knows. In practical terms, probably very little. Most of the support infrastructure is in Scotland anyway I beleive, they'll just argue about where the money goes.
    That's what I'm curious about. Does Scotland start raking in the dough while the Brits hemorrhage cash trying to sustain all their entitlements? Seems like the Brits have a lot to lose here...
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    That's what I'm curious about. Does Scotland start raking in the dough while the Brits hemorrhage cash trying to sustain all their entitlements? Seems like the Brits have a lot to lose here...
    It's not like the oil in Texas. The North Sea is a fairly hostile environment, costly to operate in. In truth no one knows how the economics would stack up. Both sides paint a very different picture and they're probably both wrong.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    If I wasn't a stupid American...
    Well you are a chimp who disregards the health risks of smoking ;0)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    If I wasn't a stupid American, I might be thinking this is a political thread that should be binned. Anyways, carry on...
    never know what ya get in a box of chocolates

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    How will this effect the export/availability of fine Scottish spirits?
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  11. #11
    rod skinner
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    While i support separating..............
    Forum: Off Camber (off topic)
    Off topic general discussion (no politics or religion)

  12. #12
    Front Range, Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    If I wasn't a stupid American, I might be thinking this is a political thread that should be binned. Anyways, carry on...
    Did anyone else happen to notice what thread got binned this morning.

    America is exceptional
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  13. #13
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    I was also wonder how this might effect Scott products, such as paper towels and toilet paper. I need those things within my reach at all times.
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  14. #14
    I didn't do it
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    The most pressing question is what effect, if any, would Scottish independence have on the availability and price of haggis?
    Let's eat Ted
    Let's eat, Ted
    Remember, commas save lives

  15. #15
    Front Range, Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    The most pressing question is what effect, if any, would Scottish independence have on the availability and price of haggis?
    Hey Mook look two posts above. Your favorite thread got binned this morning.
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  16. #16
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    I'd sure as hell better be able to continue going down to my local market to buy a fresh kilt when I need one.
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  17. #17
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    Scottish Independence

    We all know full well, if its not Scottish, its crap

  18. #18
    I didn't do it
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Hey Mook look two posts above. Your favorite thread got binned this morning.
    Ha, how about that? See, the board came through after all.

    Now if we can do something about the global warming thread...
    Let's eat Ted
    Let's eat, Ted
    Remember, commas save lives

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    never know what ya get in a box of chocolates
    Hey, that's what mom says.
    Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  20. #20
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    Scottish Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    never know what ya get in a box of chocolates
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Hey, that's what mom says.
    No, no, no.
    It goes "Mama always said prostitutes is like a box of chocolates. You have to pay more to get the good ones."
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  21. #21
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    Hey Mr Pig, I don't think 'Pig' sounds Chinese at all! Perhaps if I said it with a Scottish accent?!?

    ...nope... but then the message was from Gordon Brown. Who knew he was so fluent in Chinese?

    As for the vote, I tend to agree with you that not enough is really known, or at least owned up to by either side of the argument. I did hear an interesting interview on public radio here a couple of days ago where they were talking to a well-known Scottish writer, (not so well known I can remember his name unfortunately), and he was saying pretty much the same thing, but was basically saying "nothing ventured, nothing gained", and now was a good opportunity to give it a whirl. Those were not his exact words, he was a little more persuasive without actually painting his face blue and baring his bum, but I also agree that the risks may be a little high to make such a huge quantum shift without a more secure forecast both financially and economically. As for the financial institutions moving away to England, he pointed out that this would only be their head offices, and no jobs would be lost. Cold comfort when the Royal Bank of Scotland becomes an English company...
    Whatever, it does not affect me in any way, nor my family in the UK, but it is a momentous occasion nonetheless. I saw the Queen has asked the Scots to "think very carefully" before voting!!! Somehow I think they probably are already...

    And to those who decry this thread for being politically incorrect for the OC, this is not so much petty partisan politics as history in the making. I think it should be OK to leave, but that is just my humble opinion.
    It's all Here. Now.

  22. #22
    Hmmmmm
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    kilt prices will go through the roof.
    I was at one of my train forums and someone in the U.K. said this could cripple the Scottish rail network. Britain runs most rail traiffic in the U.K. which is state supported, so the Scotts could find themselves without rail equipment.
    I can't blame them for wanting to separate. There is a history of Britain's government treating them like doo doo.
    One of the interesting facts, is that Scotland may have to file to rejoin NATO.
    "I thought of that while riding my bike."
    Albert Einstein, on the theory of relativity.

    Peace and Long Rides...

  23. #23
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    Scottish Independence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    kilt prices will go through the roof.
    I was at one of my train forums and someone in the U.K. said this could cripple the Scottish rail network. Britain runs most rail traiffic in the U.K. which is state supported, so the Scotts could find themselves without rail equipment.
    That sounds to me like an awesome business opportunity. I'm not a business man at all, but that's an obvious one right there. Somebody is going to make some money off of that.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Hey Mook look two posts above. Your favorite thread got binned this morning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    Ha, how about that? See, the board came through after all.

    Now if we can do something about the global warming thread...
    tis a beautiful thing, and thats all i have to say about that.

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