Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 54
  1. #1
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450

    Saturated fat is back!

    This is old news in terms of internet life (~1 week), but I've finally had a chance to slow down enough to read the BMJ article on the call to end the case against saturated fat. Basically, scientists once again don't have a unified statement on what to eat. Saturated fat is back in as a result!

    If you are curious about this, and who honestly isn't curious about whether bacon and butter are bad, the article is worth a quick read if you have access to the article. I've linked the responses since they seem open to all. It contains a bunch of physicians arguing much like people debate wheel size here.
    Saturated fat is not the major issue | BMJ

    If you want what seems to be a balanced presentation of the overall issue with various links, this podcast is a good thing to listen to.
    Latest in Paleo 88: Is Fat*Good? - Paleo Podcast - Latest in Paleo Podcast - Paleo Diet - Paleo Fitness - Paleo News
    This webpage includes many cross references that enhance the podcast.

    My attention to this started earlier in the year. I started on a wheat-free (and very limited grain) diet about 5 months ago. My diet has settled in on a clean food / paleo / or what ever you want to call a diet that simply eats real, non-processed foods. It's been steadily evolving into a low carb diet despite my reluctance to do that (how can you cycle on low carb?). Whenever I mention "low carb" to people, they have visions of greasy burgers and bacon. Fat is a high percentage of my diet, but the fat comes from nuts, pumpkin seeds, olive oil, butter and small amount of animals. What is remarkable is that my cycling fears on low carb were unfounded; I can literally cycle forever on a low carb diet. Is it bonk proof? Time will tell but I have plenty more fat to burn up.

    As I work in science, I have been very skeptical of these claims, but all of this makes me wonder if what if we have been told is healthy is completely wrong. Walking down the streets or shopping at walmart tells me something is vastly wrong. What if the rise of obesity, ADHD, depression, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer's, MS, IBS, restless legs, ... are all related to a diet high in processed carbohydrates and grains -- wheat in particular -- like all of the best selling books are reporting?


    That's it. I've crossed the line. I have become "that person" on the internet.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,895
    If you work in science, then you likely already know about the link between aspartame and Type II diabetes...
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  3. #3
    official eMpTyBRain
    Reputation: Hawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,247
    Oh, wonderful...
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  4. #4
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    If you work in science, then you likely already know about the link between aspartame and Type II diabetes...
    Yeah, I've read a bit about the biochemical response of the artificial sweeteners and how they confuse the brain to over eat. I've tried to stay away from these sweetener ever since I saw my first little blue, pink or yellow sweetener just waiting to be used on a table. My wife says she is going to disown me because I've started drinking unsweetened tea. Gasp, I'm from the south.

  5. #5
    official eMpTyBRain
    Reputation: Hawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,247
    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    Yeah, I've read a bit about the biochemical response of the artificial sweeteners and how they confuse the brain to over eat. I've tried to stay away from these sweetener ever since I saw my first little blue, pink or yellow sweetener just waiting to be used on a table. My wife says she is going to disown me because I've started drinking unsweetened tea. Gasp, I'm from the south.
    The South: net wurker says it's pronounced, "da Sowff".
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  6. #6
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450
    del sur is becoming pretty common too

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fishbucket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,253
    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    This is old news in terms of internet life (~1 week), but I've finally had a chance to slow down enough to read the BMJ article on the call to end the case against saturated fat. Basically, scientists once again don't have a unified statement on what to eat. Saturated fat is back in as a result!

    If you are curious about this, and who honestly isn't curious about whether bacon and butter are bad, the article is worth a quick read if you have access to the article. I've linked the responses since they seem open to all. It contains a bunch of physicians arguing much like people debate wheel size here.
    Saturated fat is not the major issue | BMJ

    If you want what seems to be a balanced presentation of the overall issue with various links, this podcast is a good thing to listen to.
    Latest in Paleo 88: Is Fat*Good? - Paleo Podcast - Latest in Paleo Podcast - Paleo Diet - Paleo Fitness - Paleo News
    This webpage includes many cross references that enhance the podcast.

    My attention to this started earlier in the year. I started on a wheat-free (and very limited grain) diet about 5 months ago. My diet has settled in on a clean food / paleo / or what ever you want to call a diet that simply eats real, non-processed foods. It's been steadily evolving into a low carb diet despite my reluctance to do that (how can you cycle on low carb?). Whenever I mention "low carb" to people, they have visions of greasy burgers and bacon. Fat is a high percentage of my diet, but the fat comes from nuts, pumpkin seeds, olive oil, butter and small amount of animals. What is remarkable is that my cycling fears on low carb were unfounded; I can literally cycle forever on a low carb diet. Is it bonk proof? Time will tell but I have plenty more fat to burn up.

    As I work in science, I have been very skeptical of these claims, but all of this makes me wonder if what if we have been told is healthy is completely wrong. Walking down the streets or shopping at walmart tells me something is vastly wrong. What if the rise of obesity, ADHD, depression, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer's, MS, IBS, restless legs, ... are all related to a diet high in processed carbohydrates and grains -- wheat in particular -- like all of the best selling books are reporting?


    That's it. I've crossed the line. I have become "that person" on the internet.
    Two long... did not read. Was cutting into my Bacon time.

  8. #8
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    Two long... did not read. Was cutting into my Bacon time.
    I'll sum up - just eat real food.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fishbucket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,253
    That's a big 10-4 goodbuddy.

  10. #10
    duh
    Reputation: deke505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    6,254
    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    I'll sum up - just eat real food.
    as opposed to the plastice display food you see in furniture stores.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    the big aussie rep bomb is comin your way

  11. #11
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450
    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    as opposed to the plastice display food you see in furniture stores.
    Those a close cousin to the manufactured foods we have readily available. You know french fries that are more side ingredients than real potatoes; bread that never goes stale; boxes of food that contain some lovely seasonings and "cheese"; chicken nuggets that don't have recognizable chicken meat; etc.

  12. #12
    re member
    Reputation: net wurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,917
    You know, in the forties and fifties, all anyone ever ate was eggs, meat, butter and cheese, bread plus a few veggies. Look at old pictures, you hardly ever saw any "fattys".
    Rocktoberfest 2014 edit here
    Rocktoberfest 2014 clips here

  13. #13
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450

    Saturated fat is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    You know, in the forties and fifties, all anyone ever ate was eggs, meat, butter and cheese, bread plus a few veggies. Look at old pictures, you hardly ever saw any "fattys".
    Some say that is what people ate for 10s of thousands of years without people being obese. It was not until the USDA recommended that we literally eat like a cow that we remarkably started looking like cows.

    Maybe we need to revive the conspiracy theory thread. Agriculture recommends we eat a very high grain diet during the time farms were told to get big or get out of the business. Cholesterol was determined to be bad about the time statins were about to hit the market. Reflux medications are big at times when the average diet is synthetic food is eaten.

  14. #14
    dru
    dru is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,642
    Heh, saturated fat never left my house! If you were as skinny as me you'd understand.

    Drew
    occasional cyclist

  15. #15
    official eMpTyBRain
    Reputation: Hawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,247
    I lost weight mostly by eating less when I eat. It's tough as hell for a week or so but eventually, your stomach shrinks a little and you feel satisfied with less inside. Of course, I cut out basic junk food, too. I lost weight so fast that I actually got concerned but it leveled out so I guess I'm OK. I'm talking 6-7 pounds in just a few weeks!
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  16. #16
    007
    007 is offline
    b a n n e d
    Reputation: 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,372
    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    You know, in the forties and fifties, all anyone ever ate was eggs, meat, butter and cheese, bread plus a few veggies. Look at old pictures, you hardly ever saw any "fattys".
    That and they didn't have 500+ channels of programming, video games, internetz and lot prolly didn't have cars either. Food is a very interesting thing to me. I like it. A lot.

    If you've not already done so, I'd recommend reading Omnivore's Dilemma. Its sorta like Food Inc. on a conceptual level, without the "Michael Moore Hollywood sensationalism." It didn't really change the way I eat per se, but it absolutely and unequivocally changed the way that I think about food. I'm far more cognizant of where my food comes from now, and what I'm willing to eat (so I guess in that regard, my eating habits did change somewhat).

    And to give some perspective on why scientists keep changing their minds on what is good, and what is bad, and this causes cancer, and thats now healthy for you, I'll just leave this here: PLOS Medicine: Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

    To give some perspective, hat article is written by an incredibly intelligent and very well-respected scientist (now at Stanford). He know's what the hell he's talking about.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  17. #17
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450
    The field of nutritional epidemiology has taken a rightful beating through the years. Ioannidis's article is very interesting. While the math he uses is somewhat questionable, the end result that much of what is published should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism is very worthy of attention.


    Physical activity is very important, but I have a hard time reconciling what constitutes perceived inactivity today with the recall bias that people in the 50s and before were working machines. Sure we all love to hear that people walked to school uphill both ways in the snow, people plowed fields by driving a team of oxen on foot, and lumberjacks clearing forests with the aid of just a big blue ox. But going to the gym and xx minutes of exercise / day is a modern invention.

    I've settled into the idea of first fix the food intake first and increased activity will be a natural by-product of feeling better. Do we have a food intake problem beyond "junk food"? All that I've read this year suggests that we do. The "just eat real food" movement is starting to gain significant traction in the general population (not just the farmer's market shoppers).

    As an example of what could be wrong, just look at the size of the average American grocery store. Set a goal to buy only real food and estimate what percentage of the store you visit. You may find that you could easily satisfy your shopping needs with a grocery store no larger than a small apartment. For further gut-wrenching data, set up a strategic location in the store and record the approx. size of the shopper with the contents of the shopping cart (or the number of carts filled with food). The more obese people will undoubtedly have all sorts of fruit juices, soft drinks and snacks in the cart. But, you will also see tons of "healthy" snacks (crackers for example) and prepared foods in a box that are suggestive of wellness. You will see remarkably few fresh ingredients or what anybody from the 60s and before would consider food. Low-fat, highly processed carbs & man-made oils now seem to be our definition of food.

  18. #18
    Now, THAT'S gonna hurt!
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    765
    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    The field of nutritional epidemiology has taken a rightful beating through the years. Ioannidis's article is very interesting. While the math he uses is somewhat questionable, the end result that much of what is published should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism is very worthy of attention.


    Physical activity is very important, but I have a hard time reconciling what constitutes perceived inactivity today with the recall bias that people in the 50s and before were working machines. Sure we all love to hear that people walked to school uphill both ways in the snow, people plowed fields by driving a team of oxen on foot, and lumberjacks clearing forests with the aid of just a big blue ox. But going to the gym and xx minutes of exercise / day is a modern invention.

    I've settled into the idea of first fix the food intake first and increased activity will be a natural by-product of feeling better. Do we have a food intake problem beyond "junk food"? All that I've read this year suggests that we do. The "just eat real food" movement is starting to gain significant traction in the general population (not just the farmer's market shoppers).

    As an example of what could be wrong, just look at the size of the average American grocery store. Set a goal to buy only real food and estimate what percentage of the store you visit. You may find that you could easily satisfy your shopping needs with a grocery store no larger than a small apartment. For further gut-wrenching data, set up a strategic location in the store and record the approx. size of the shopper with the contents of the shopping cart (or the number of carts filled with food). The more obese people will undoubtedly have all sorts of fruit juices, soft drinks and snacks in the cart. But, you will also see tons of "healthy" snacks (crackers for example) and prepared foods in a box that are suggestive of wellness. You will see remarkably few fresh ingredients or what anybody from the 60s and before would consider food. Low-fat, highly processed carbs & man-made oils now seem to be our definition of food.
    This.

    Just anecdotal but as a product of the early sixties, I think back to when I was a kid in my elementary school years in So Cal. Out of practically an entire school's worth of students, we had 2....TWO kids that were obese. It was so out of the ordinary I can name their names to this day 40+ years later. After having grown up in that environment, I am completely amazed and baffled what has happened to this country with nutrition and activity. It's pretty damned sad, actually.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3,895
    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    That and they didn't have 500+ channels of programming, video games, internetz and lot prolly didn't have cars either. Food is a very interesting thing to me. I like it. A lot.

    If you've not already done so, I'd recommend reading Omnivore's Dilemma. Its sorta like Food Inc. on a conceptual level, without the "Michael Moore Hollywood sensationalism." It didn't really change the way I eat per se, but it absolutely and unequivocally changed the way that I think about food. I'm far more cognizant of where my food comes from now, and what I'm willing to eat (so I guess in that regard, my eating habits did change somewhat).

    And to give some perspective on why scientists keep changing their minds on what is good, and what is bad, and this causes cancer, and thats now healthy for you, I'll just leave this here: PLOS Medicine: Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

    To give some perspective, hat article is written by an incredibly intelligent and very well-respected scientist (now at Stanford). He know's what the hell he's talking about.
    What is often perceived as a weakness of science is actually it's strength; everything is open to examination, including the evidence and research findings that lead to popular theories. In real science, there is no room for ideology.
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  20. #20
    007
    007 is offline
    b a n n e d
    Reputation: 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,372
    Yup, I agree with all that has been said. Its not JUST the reduced activity, but there has definitely been a fundamental shift in food, its production and its consumption. Change people's eating habits, increase activity and the obesity problem will be no more (yes, I am aware its far easier said than done).

    And yeah, Ioannidis' article isn't free from error by any means, however, the core argument (in my opinion) is fundamentally sound (e.g., question what you hear and evaluate the science for yourself). Jenny McCarthy is a prime example of what happens when you fail to think for yourself.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  21. #21
    official eMpTyBRain
    Reputation: Hawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,247
    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Yup, I agree with all that has been said. Its not JUST the reduced activity, but there has definitely been a fundamental shift in food, its production and its consumption. Change people's eating habits, increase activity and the obesity problem will be no more (yes, I am aware its far easier said than done).

    And yeah, Ioannidis' article isn't free from error by any means, however, the core argument (in my opinion) is fundamentally sound (e.g., question what you hear and evaluate the science for yourself). Jenny McCarthy is a prime example of what happens when you fail to think for yourself.
    Jenny McCarthy?! Did someone just say Jenny McCarthy?!!!!
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  22. #22
    007
    007 is offline
    b a n n e d
    Reputation: 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,372
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Jenny McCarthy?! Did someone just say Jenny McCarthy?!!!!
    Yes. She is a blithering idiot and a waste of space. She is a very unfortunate presence in this world as she has done more to harm humanity than she realizes or will admit out of sheer ignorance, and the effects of her preachings are far from fully manifest.

    /rant.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  23. #23
    official eMpTyBRain
    Reputation: Hawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,247
    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Yes. She is a blithering idiot and a waste of space. She is a very unfortunate presence in this world as she has done more to harm humanity than she realizes or will admit out of sheer ignorance, and the effects of her preachings are far from fully manifest.

    /rant.
    Wow, take a sedative please.

    She's very fun to look at, though.
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  24. #24
    Ride More, Whine Less
    Reputation: heyyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,450

    Saturated fat is back!

    Well, some would say Jenny has done well having moved on from fake autism to fake cigarettes.

    (Ps I'm not saying autism is fake)

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bikemaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    973
    I have heard an anctedote that if you only shop along the outside edge of the grocery store, never venturing into the individual isles, you have a very good start on eating healthy.

    When you think about it, this is true! The outside edges have the produce, butcher, dairy, and bakery. The isles have the processed crap. I found myself shopping by that method, following the outside first to pick up produce, meat, and dairy, before venturing into specific isles only for dry goods (flour), specific recipe needs (a can of tomato sauce) or toilet paper/ detergent/ etc. I consciously avoid the isles with crackers, cookies, snacks, etc. to avoid temptation. I stock the house with really healthy, whole foods this way with what little grocery money I have. I also really take advantage of the freezer for saving fresh foods I get a good deal on or making a large portion and making and freezing homemade frozen meals. I don't need someone to process the food and freeze it for me. I know what goes in the stuff I make, and it is really easy to make extra and freeze it for another time!

    My problem right now is being a cook, surrounded by massive amounts of really good food that is always in such excess, we throw away trash can after trash can of the stuff every day, after every event, even after all the employees have stuffed themselves. The amount of waste we produce should be a crime! I always end up taking home/ eating too much of it. I know what went into it, at least. It is all from scratch.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-15-2014, 04:16 PM
  2. Give some time back to get Boulder trails back open
    By Jdub in forum Colorado - Front Range
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 09-30-2013, 09:32 PM
  3. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 09-09-2013, 06:00 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-15-2013, 09:58 PM
  5. Lower back pain - When to get back on the bike?
    By jboyd122 in forum Rider Down, injuries and recovery
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-12-2012, 04:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •