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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    What he is saying, is that the value to the owners of MTBR, is the members.
    In short is a deal between the members and the owners, that the owners supply a reasonable environment that keeps the contributing members reasonably happy, and the members supply the content.

    Once the owners fail to offer a reasonable environment, that keeps the contributing members reasonably happy, the content suffers, which is bad business for the owners.

    So to spell it out, the owners are dependent on the members, and once they fail to see that, things goes downhill real quick.
    What we have seen here in the last couple of weeks, is a prime example of just that.


    Magura
    yup, I get it, just sayin, and yup, thank for Sharin Randy
    Round and round we go

  2. #102
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.


    .....

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I've read that before but I am unclear how Rep creates content unless the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.
    Yup, if I may AZ. It keeps people coming back and gives them something personal they can try and control. Don't think it works?, just look at how many members went a bit ape sh!t when mtbr changed it some.
    Round and round we go

  4. #104
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    I have no problem with folks creating wealth and believe this site and others like it are a positive way to do it. I like the term profiteering conveying a sense that this place is some evil empire, I doubt anyone is getting taken advantage of while getting filthy rich in the process.

  5. #105
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    There's no such thing as free internet/information. I pay 65 bucks a month for the privilege of being online. At least the ads on here are relevant to the site which is more than I can say about other forums I've been on.

  6. #106
    I build my own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by banonymous View Post
    If that is true then whole ideology behind the internet and "free information" gets broken down, and it becomes a myth. ...not that there is anything wrong with that. Just be honest about it.
    Absolutely. That myth died with the first ad or request for a donation.
    I have a device that can access the total knowledge of man. I use it to look at pictures of cats and argue with strangers.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Yup, if I may AZ. It keeps people coming back and gives them something personal they can try and control. Don't think it works?, just look at how many members went a bit ape sh!t when mtbr changed it some.
    Thanks fellas, obviously there are things about sociology and market analysis of which I am blissfully ignorant.

    The question still remains for me how the rep system is mutually beneficial. It generates more activity and thus profit, but how does it positively affect users any more so than it produces strife amongst us?

    Again, I'm not making a statement.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany1 View Post
    There's no such thing as free internet/information. I pay 65 bucks a month for the privilege of being online. At least the ads on here are relevant to the site which is more than I can say about other forums I've been on.



    That idea went out the window when Al Gore sold the internet to Al-Jazzera.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I've read that before but I am unclear how Rep creates content unless the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.
    How many threads have been started about rep? Atleast a hundred. And thousands of posts in those threads. That's content that did not exist without the rep system.

    I think the real intent is to give more legitimacy to the website. Those that contribute with high quality content should have a higher rep level. This lets visitors and newbies know who they can trust. Lower quality content should be ignored, not +repped, and allowed to move off the front page.
    Through this, several objectives can be attained:
    The overall content of the forum should improve.
    Forum members encourage quality posts through +reps. This teaches new members what they should be posting and what they shouldn't.
    Visitors get better content and more of them register.
    Higher visitor and registered user numbers go up, attracting advertisers.


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  10. #110
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    I personally believe that off topic forums like Off Camber should be exempt from post counts and reps. That way, only posts that actually contribute to primary content of the forum affect users reputation on the forum.
    One other forum I am a member of uses post counts to build a member rating system. Too many members simply padded their post counts in the Off Topic forum and never posted any quality content in the other forums. The admins stopped counting Off Topic posts and the boards overall quality improved greatly.
    Off Camber is a place of fun, games and entertainment. You will never hear me say get rid of it. But if posts in Off Camber were not rep-able, the whole forum would be better for it, IMHO.


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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    And just so ya know - the Admins and site owners do care...they are just trying to find balance on a HUGE forum in a timely fashion to solve a potential problem before it sets in so deep it can't be 'fixed'....
    So, is it fixed now? Or, are they still working on it?

    Who are the site owners and admins that do care? Why do they not come in and participate in this thread if this is an important topic to them?

    Look in the OC on any given day and you'll see hundreds (if not thousands) of lurkers. They're not here by mistake. Most likely a google search pulled up a link in the OC. Why? Because just about every topic imaginable has been discussed here in less than a year. All of these lurkers exposed to MTBR from a search hit equals more money for MTBR (ad revenue).

    My opinion of what happened to the rep system: When the anonymity was removed, those who were true hateful trolls (you know who they are) were exposed and justly retaliated against. Some of these trolls were very important people with long tenures and high post counts. Much whining ensued and the rep system was "fixed" by adding more weight to your tenure and post count. Funny thing is that tenure doesn't make you a good contributor. And, post count is easily inflated (in a word association thread, for instance). And, now it's "fixed".

    Some of the true a$$hats were rewarded with an instantly higher rep power while those of us who do contribute (inside the OC and in other forums) were penalized. No reasoning given. No appeal process.

    I don't believe the site owners / admins really care. I hope you can convince me otherwise.
    Contact information: http://about.me/marpilli

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    That idea went out the window when Al Gore sold the internet to Al-Jazzera.
    Lol, wouldn't put it past him. I don't really have a problem with him selling current tv to al jah whoeva, if you support a free market how could you. But think it's criminal for him to profit from a law that arguably he alone created, and that's why he owned a channel, and how he gained tons of tax payer dollars from a mostly unwilling and/or unknowing public.
    Round and round we go

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    How many threads have been started about rep? Atleast a hundred. And thousands of posts in those threads. That's content that did not exist without the rep system.

    I think the real intent is to give more legitimacy to the website. Those that contribute with high quality content should have a higher rep level. This lets visitors and newbies know who they can trust. Lower quality content should be ignored, not +repped, and allowed to move off the front page.
    Through this, several objectives can be attained:
    The overall content of the forum should improve.
    Forum members encourage quality posts through +reps. This teaches new members what they should be posting and what they shouldn't.
    Visitors get better content and more of them register.
    Higher visitor and registered user numbers go up, attracting advertisers.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, I recognize now that the rep system generates activity but the example of posts about Rep does so whilst devaluing the quality of the sites content.

    Does the intent match the results? User participation will heavily influence the accuracy of how well ones rep score reflects the value of their posts. There are some great contributors here with very low rep scores on account of not passing out rep and rarely venturing out of a favored sub forum, the transverse can be said as well.

  14. #114
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    Some very valid points there Marpilli
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT

  15. #115
    Rod
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    It appears I missed a lot when I was in Alabama for Christmas. I read all of these posts and it appears that every point I was going to make has already been made.

    P.S. Thanks Chum for the open dialogue. We need more of that and it's too rare.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Yes, I recognize now that the rep system generates activity but the example of posts about Rep does so whilst devaluing the quality of the sites content.

    Does the intent match the results? User participation will heavily influence the accuracy of how well ones rep score reflects the value of their posts. There are some great contributors here with very low rep scores on account of not passing out rep and rarely venturing out of a favored sub forum, the transverse can be said as well.
    Yes this is true and I do believe some here went to help show their appreciation. The main problem with this is a lot of people (especially in the beginners thread) don't know or just don't rep. Where as in the other forums they do but only neg rep if you ask a question they think is dumc.
    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    You guys have reached for a new low.

  17. #117
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    This is just an idea-

    Modify the rep system so users rep the post rather than the user as has been suggested before and instituted elsewhere and generate user rep scores based on the votes your posts receive.

    Not perfect but it would seem to garner more rep based upon the quality of posts and eliminate the intimidation factor for noobs wishing to avoid being moderated by fellow users having higher rep scores than others.

  18. #118
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    This is just an idea-

    Modify the rep system so users rep the post rather than the user as has been suggested before and instituted elsewhere and generate user rep scores based on the votes your posts receive.

    Not perfect but it would seem to garner more rep based upon the quality of posts and eliminate the intimidation factor for noobs wishing to avoid being moderated by fellow users having higher rep scores than others.


    Thats what I do anyway. Contrary to popular belief most of the rep that gets handed out by OCers used to go to other forums. Now that they cut it back to 5 a day, not so much. EPIC FAIL.

  19. #119
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    The site owners are all off FOAMAPPING figuring out how to maximize revenue, while the admins are doing similarly figuring out how they are going to get a raise. With the implementation of an off topic section and a rep system and copious amounts of pot stirring it appears they're doing a fine job eh. Interest sure has spiked for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    So, is it fixed now? Or, are they still working on it?

    Who are the site owners and admins that do care? Why do they not come in and participate in this thread if this is an important topic to them?

    Look in the OC on any given day and you'll see hundreds (if not thousands) of lurkers. They're not here by mistake. Most likely a google search pulled up a link in the OC. Why? Because just about every topic imaginable has been discussed here in less than a year. All of these lurkers exposed to MTBR from a search hit equals more money for MTBR (ad revenue).

    My opinion of what happened to the rep system: When the anonymity was removed, those who were true hateful trolls (you know who they are) were exposed and justly retaliated against. Some of these trolls were very important people with long tenures and high post counts. Much whining ensued and the rep system was "fixed" by adding more weight to your tenure and post count. Funny thing is that tenure doesn't make you a good contributor. And, post count is easily inflated (in a word association thread, for instance). And, now it's "fixed".

    Some of the true a$$hats were rewarded with an instantly higher rep power while those of us who do contribute (inside the OC and in other forums) were penalized. No reasoning given. No appeal process.

    I don't believe the site owners / admins really care. I hope you can convince me otherwise.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Thats what I do anyway. Contrary to popular belief most of the rep that gets handed out by OCers used to go to other forums. Now that they cut it back to 5 a day, not so much. EPIC FAIL.
    Well I can attest to this as I have only ever received rep from you when I had posted something of value, but I'm suggesting rep power be equal across the board, if 20 people like your post you get 20 rep regardless of who you receive it from.

  21. #121
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    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.
    so then removing the ability to neg rep would not work for you?
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
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  23. #123
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.
    Agreed. A new user should not have the same rep as someone that has been here for years.

    As we all know the rep system is broken, but there is no easy fix. I don't agree with making everyone equal.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.
    Not really. Good contributors would possess good rep scores and useful posts with accurate info would have high ratings.

    I'm not wanting to level the playing field, just figure a way to increase how accurately rep scores reflect the members and increase civility.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Wow...
    Mojo Troll - "Please stop passing judgement on me." Impossible, your recent posts are inflammatory, judgmental, appear to stir the pot, and create a (-) effect.
    Best be prepared for jail time, no lube for you - Buttercup.
    .
    It would appear that he has by-passed the brink and gone straight to exile island

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