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  1. #151
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    Chum: My disappointment comes from the fact that rules and policies were established. A group of people followed the rules. Then the rules changed specifically in response to the outcome of the rule abiding members following the rules.

    A lot of people invested a lot of time to accomplish something. When the value of the effort was not recognized and was taken away, it made people upset.

    It's kind of like this: A group of us are playing Monopoly and the point of the game is to get as much money as possible. Then, as soon as someone gets a lot of money, someone comes along and takes half of their money because that person had too much money.

    I can't give advice on how to fix this because I don't know what the stakeholders want beyond my observations. But, from what I can see, some want the rep system to go away and others want to revert back to the way things were. Making any other arbitrary change is just going to make things worse.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Chum: My disappointment comes from the fact that rules and policies were established. A group of people followed the rules. Then the rules changed specifically in response to the outcome of the rule abiding members following the rules.

    A lot of people invested a lot of time to accomplish something. When the value of the effort was not recognized and was taken away, it made people upset.

    It's kind of like this: A group of us are playing Monopoly and the point of the game is to get as much money as possible. Then, as soon as someone gets a lot of money, someone comes along and takes half of their money because that person had too much money.

    I can't give advice on how to fix this because I don't know what the stakeholders want beyond my observations. But, from what I can see, some want the rep system to go away and others want to revert back to the way things were. Making any other arbitrary change is just going to make things worse.
    From MTBR rules:
    do not attempt to abuse our site by making this a place for your own personal campaign against other forum members, manufacturers, or retailers nor as your own personal soapbox
    The minute several of y'all got together to gang up on another member, or thread for the sole purpose of pushing it around via neg(or pos) rep you crossed the line.

    Several of y'all strayed further by planning, and trying to execute disruptions in MTBR's forums...so far only a few members have caught a time-out.

    Yet, It still continues...

    do you 'get it' now?
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Chum: My disappointment comes from the fact that rules and policies were established. A group of people followed the rules. Then the rules changed specifically in response to the outcome of the rule abiding members following the rules.

    A lot of people invested a lot of time to accomplish something. When the value of the effort was not recognized and was taken away, it made people upset.

    It's kind of like this: A group of us are playing Monopoly and the point of the game is to get as much money as possible. Then, as soon as someone gets a lot of money, someone comes along and takes half of their money because that person had too much money.

    I can't give advice on how to fix this because I don't know what the stakeholders want beyond my observations. But, from what I can see, some want the rep system to go away and others want to revert back to the way things were. Making any other arbitrary change is just going to make things worse.

    You described redistribution of wealth to a tee...
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT

  4. #154
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    Lets give this a break for a couple of days to see what kind of ideas move forward shall we?

  5. #155
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    ^ Will do - AFTER I share the precursor to the above from MTBR RULES:

    "In the sharing of ideas, opinions, and experiences we hope to provide an open atmosphere where all parties can feel free to share their stories. While debates and differing opinions are all part of interfacing with many others, constant and continuous badgering and flaming of others will not be tolerated, and will be dealt with at the management's discretion. Users are free to share experiences, whether good or bad, positive or negative."
    ------
    When a user repeatedly derails threads, abuses others, does not take direct input, and continues to be difficult, a self-policing solution now exists, and it glows red. Without it all would be green, and nobody could easily detect a troll, a spammer, or an unreasonable priick.

    -done.

  6. #156
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    Another idea for the powers that be.
    How bout binning some threads straight away. I get it may be off camber, and I'm all about having some fun, and the strange and interesting topics have their place here now with oc, but "erotic experiences with aliens animals and household objects"? shouldn't that be crossing the line on a mtb site? Is there even a line here anymore, or is the rule just don't piss off the mods.
    BTW I'm no prude, so go have your jollies however you like, but there's sites for that sorta stuff, shouldn't be on mtbr imo
    Last edited by theMeat; 01-08-2013 at 07:04 PM.
    Round and round we go

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Another idea for the powers that be.
    How bout binning some posts straight away. I get it may be off camber, and I'm all about having some fun, and the strange and interesting topics have their place here now with oc, but "erotic experiences with aliens animals and household objects"? shouldn't that be crossing the line on a mtb site? Is there even a line here anymore, or is the rule just don't piss off the mods.
    BTW I'm no prude, so go have your jollies however you like, but there's sites for that sorta stuff, shouldn't be on mtbr imo
    Hey now, let's not be hasty.

    In fact, in support of mtbr and its advertisers in an effort to generate more traffic I was gearing up to start an OC thread about chubby chasers ogling the Zulily model

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Hey now, let's not be hasty.

    In fact, in support of mtbr and its advertisers in an effort to generate more traffic I was gearing up to start an OC thread about chubby chasers ogling the Zulily model
    Oh, Well, if we're talking BBW's then I'm in, lol, what's with most girls wanting to be these skinny little wafers with no curves.
    Round and round we go

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    From MTBR rules:

    do not attempt to abuse our site by making this a place for your own personal campaign against other forum members, manufacturers, or retailers nor as your own personal soapbox
    The minute several of y'all got together to gang up on another member, or thread for the sole purpose of pushing it around via neg(or pos) rep you crossed the line.

    Several of y'all strayed further by planning, and trying to execute disruptions in MTBR's forums...so far only a few members have caught a time-out.

    Yet, It still continues...

    do you 'get it' now?
    Whoa... Let me get this straight... If I see anyone:

    A) Campaigning against other forum members
    B) Campaigning against manufacturers
    C) Campaigning against retailers
    D) Using MTBR as their own personal soapbox

    I can then report the offense to the admins and I should expect the exact level of response as was taken against the rep system? Correct?

    Just listing the offenses out like that is laughable. I can think of several examples of each and I know if I would have reported them nothing would have been done.

    Consistency in applying punishment to those rules would go a long way towards the site's credibility.
    Last edited by marpilli; 01-08-2013 at 06:58 PM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    From MTBR rules:


    The minute several of y'all got together to gang up on another member, or thread for the sole purpose of pushing it around via neg(or pos) rep you crossed the line.

    Several of y'all strayed further by planning, and trying to execute disruptions in MTBR's forums...so far only a few members have caught a time-out.

    Yet, It still continues...

    do you 'get it' now?
    I guess I'm just not understanding what line was crossed. I don't think anyone has participated in a sustained campaign to harass or force anyone to leave. Attention is sometimes drawn to a particular thread, or a situation, where someone is being inflammatory and some people, as individuals, decided to neg rep that individual.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    When used properly it marks those that should be avoided. In the larger scheme of things it is probably too much to ask that it be used properly so you may as well jettison neg reps and just let everyone flame away at each other like the old days.
    I agree with this.

    I think maybe the drama of having the odd few being negged into a couple of reds might be being overplayed a bit.
    This does not happen to many, and the ones that it does happen to would probably go on to contribute negativly to the forums anyway, its not worth changing things for this small group.

    Maybe just as has been done before if mods see a new member that has been heavily negged they could have a quick look at his post history and see if he is contributing in a positive manner and adjust his rep accordingly, its been done before and i think this is the answer.

    And how bout a limit on how much a guy can be negged, how bout once he is negged negative 2 red squares, thats it nothing counts past that.

    I think neg repping is a valuable part of the forum, it is a leveller and its not a bad thing.
    Now that anonymous rep is gone it has changed rep over night, in a good way.

    Im no saint, i had sent the odd un signed rep before, but now everybody has to be accountable, ive gone from getting negs every day to hardly getting any at all, its stopped the trolls neg repping, so imo more than half the war is won already.

    No system is perfect, but nothing should have wholesale change for the sake of a few guys getting negged, that doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

    Once again i applaud Chum for caring enough to engage in this conversation with all of us, it says a lot about him as a person and a mod, so thanks for that Chum, and thanks for the action taken for one previous poster in this thread, i can guarentee that there will be no protest from anybody on this site for that, cheers n thanks
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Tone's got repped back to the Stone Age when he first started, it doesn't take but a few to put someone 400 points in the red, especially before the reset.
    And you know what, it didnt do me any harm, i copped it on the chin, it let me know the vibe of the place, let me know that silliness would not be tolerated, and look at me now, no more silliness or shanannigans from me, im an upstanding, serious member of the forum now
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  13. #163
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    Last edited by Bill in Houston; 01-09-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    And you know what, it didnt do me any harm, i copped it on the chin, it let me know the vibe of the place, let me know that silliness would not be tolerated, and look at me now, no more silliness or shanannigans from me, im an upstanding, serious member of the forum now
    I don't often LOL but when I do I prefer Tone's.
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    You may be happy to hear that my dad has kicked cancer's ass. Now he's looking for whoever sent it.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lets give this a break for a couple of days to see what kind of ideas move forward shall we?
    ^this
    its just the intertubez. ride a bike, diddle your woman, make a nice meal. Everyone have a great day!

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lets give this a break for a couple of days to see what kind of ideas move forward shall we?
    Yes, i tend to agree with this AZ, i think Chum might be a bit overloaded with all of this, time to let it all sink in and im sure he will do the best he can to convey our thoughts to the right people, cheers n thanks Chum.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Whoa... Let me get this straight... If I see anyone:

    A) Campaigning against other forum members
    B) Campaigning against manufacturers
    C) Campaigning against retailers
    D) Using MTBR as their own personal soapbox

    I can then report the offense to the admins and I should expect the exact level of response as was taken against the rep system? Correct?

    Just listing the offenses out like that is laughable. I can think of several examples of each and I know if I would have reported them nothing would have been done.

    Consistency in applying punishment to those rules would go a long way towards the site's credibility.
    Marp - when I outlined that an organized campaign to disrupt MTBR's forums was not a good idea I was not kidding.

    here are some recent quotes...names withheld, and there are many many more....

    "I was handing out 5 reps to the OC'ers and then 5 to the 'outsiders' on my list. Now I'm just handing them out to the OC'ers for the time being. Until they stop me, I'll give them out every day."
    "I think that this subverts their plan for rep parity therefore I like it. we were handing it out everywhere before the lock down. Confine the reps to the OC. Now we just have to get enough people into the OC to make it viable. "
    " i'm going to go follow all of y'all.
    i'll go back to the other place to spend my reps, but i'm not going to post."
    "do you have any suggestions on how to further subvert the system without us causing to much consternation"
    "This does not surprise me, we should mount a hostile take over of the 29er forum. That place is a cesspool"
    "But if 20 people negged him for the same post in a one hour period, that would be kind of amazing."
    "this seems to be a good one to hijack..."
    "Find some really (really) old thread in General Discussion to bump up and start chatting in."
    "if we really want to bug him, we should raid his sticky thread"
    "Yes! We have to exercise our influence to give the bums rush to a couple of tools that think they got **** figured out"
    "That would have to be done quite discretely, [name withheld] is hooked up pretty good with the admin"
    "And thanks to all participants of the [name withheld] troll beat down"
    "Did that thread bombardment really work? hahah "
    "Good job carpet bombing the OC and summoning old souls back to the bright side!"
    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
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  18. #168
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    Chum, you changed the rep system?

    That first quote is mine. I still stand by it.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I personally believe that off topic forums like Off Camber should be exempt from post counts and reps. That way, only posts that actually contribute to primary content of the forum affect users reputation on the forum.
    One other forum I am a member of uses post counts to build a member rating system. Too many members simply padded their post counts in the Off Topic forum and never posted any quality content in the other forums. The admins stopped counting Off Topic posts and the boards overall quality improved greatly.
    Off Camber is a place of fun, games and entertainment. You will never hear me say get rid of it. But if posts in Off Camber were not rep-able, the whole forum would be better for it, IMHO.
    I respect your statement here because it does make a point. But what if I had never ridden a mountain bike before, yet I had a great following on MTBR, never posting negative remarks, always respecting others, always supporting the thoughts and ideas of other members here....would I not deserve to have possibly higher rep power than anyone else on the boards?

    Would I really have to be a top level bicycle know-it-all, experienced-it-all to be a top rep power holder on MTBR, IYHO?

    The only thing I can say here is this, and it applies to everything....

    The only thing that is perfect in life is imperfection
    Screw you guys, I'm going out for a ride now...

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    Marp - when I outlined that an organized campaign to disrupt MTBR's forums was not a good idea I was not kidding.

    here are some recent quotes...names withheld, and there are many many more....


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Whoa... Let me get this straight... If I see anyone:

    A) Campaigning against other forum members
    B) Campaigning against manufacturers
    C) Campaigning against retailers
    D) Using MTBR as their own personal soapbox

    I can then report the offense to the admins and I should expect the exact level of response as was taken against the rep system? Correct?

    Just listing the offenses out like that is laughable. I can think of several examples of each and I know if I would have reported them nothing would have been done.

    Consistency in applying punishment to those rules would go a long way towards the site's credibility.
    Marp - when I outlined that an organized campaign to disrupt MTBR's forums was not a good idea I was not kidding.

    here are some recent quotes...names withheld, and there are many many more....

    Quote:
    "I was handing out 5 reps to the OC'ers and then 5 to the 'outsiders' on my list. Now I'm just handing them out to the OC'ers for the time being. Until they stop me, I'll give them out every day."
    Quote:
    "I think that this subverts their plan for rep parity therefore I like it. we were handing it out everywhere before the lock down. Confine the reps to the OC. Now we just have to get enough people into the OC to make it viable. "
    Quote:
    " i'm going to go follow all of y'all.
    Quote:
    i'll go back to the other place to spend my reps, but i'm not going to post."
    Quote:
    "do you have any suggestions on how to further subvert the system without us causing to much consternation"
    Quote:
    "This does not surprise me, we should mount a hostile take over of the 29er forum. That place is a cesspool"
    Quote:
    "But if 20 people negged him for the same post in a one hour period, that would be kind of amazing."
    Quote:
    "this seems to be a good one to hijack..."
    Quote:
    "Find some really (really) old thread in General Discussion to bump up and start chatting in."
    Quote:
    "if we really want to bug him, we should raid his sticky thread"
    Quote:
    "Yes! We have to exercise our influence to give the bums rush to a couple of tools that think they got **** figured out"
    Quote:
    "That would have to be done quite discretely, [name withheld] is hooked up pretty good with the admin"
    Quote:
    "And thanks to all participants of the [name withheld] troll beat down"
    Quote:
    "Did that thread bombardment really work? hahah "
    Quote:
    "Good job carpet bombing the OC and summoning old souls back to the bright side!"
    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
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    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
    Awesome. 25 or so clipped phrases quoted without providing any context. You might as well be an Ugg spammer. Meh, whatever, this thread's lame.
    Last edited by wbmason55; 01-08-2013 at 09:22 PM.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Chum, you changed the rep system?...
    nope.

    what does that have to do with anything?

    mounting a campaign to a) hassle members and b) to disrupt these forums leads to perma-ban.

    tenure/post count does not matter.

    We are trying to work with you guys....yet you still are fighting....over rep

    [/facepalm]
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  22. #172
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    CHUM, I didn't intend my previous post to be a personal attack against you. I apologize if it came across that way. I consider you one of the good guys.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't believe you had input into the changes to the rep system. And, I don't believe you were the one who banned Hutch. Why you continue to try and herd the cats for free is beyond me. It's a job I would never volunteer for.

    I think others have created a situation and you are (valiantly) trying to keep things in order after the fact.

    I just think it's a real shame that the site owners and admins don't solicit opinions of the users. And, the changes to the rep system appear to be ripe with cronyism. This leads me to conclude they don't care about our opinions.

    Others want to let this sit and see what the admins do. I'm willing to bet they do nothing...

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    nope.

    what does that have to do with anything?

    mounting a campaign to a) hassle members and b) to disrupt these forums leads to perma-ban.

    tenure/post count does not matter.

    We are trying to work with you guys....yet you still are fighting....over rep

    [/facepalm]
    Try this: HTFU

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    CHUM, I didn't intend my previous post to be a personal attack against you. I apologize if it came across that way. I consider you one of the good guys.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't believe you had input into the changes to the rep system. And, I don't believe you were the one who banned Hutch. Why you continue to try and herd the cats for free is beyond me. It's a job I would never volunteer for.

    I think others have created a situation and you are (valiantly) trying to keep things in order after the fact.

    I just think it's a real shame that the site owners and admins don't solicit opinions of the users. And, the changes to the rep system appear to be ripe with cronyism. This leads me to conclude they don't care about our opinions.

    Others want to let this sit and see what the admins do. I'm willing to bet they do nothing...



    The site owners have taken our suggestions under consideration, now we need to let this be. I predict perma bans if this continues. Take that for whatever you think it is worth.

  25. #175
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    needs a more suited subtitle
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    '00 Homegrown

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The site owners have taken our suggestions under consideration, now we need to let this be. I predict perma bans if this continues. Take that for whatever you think it is worth.
    Listen to this man, just let everything marinade for awhile, let things slow down, await the return of Hutch and just stop worrying.
    Try this: HTFU

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
    CHUM, give the Upper Admins an ultimatum....

    Say this:

    "Dismantle and discontinue using the rep system or I will resign from my position and disassociate myself from MTBR. Clearly, it is causing irritation felt equally across the board. Take away the possession, and the possessive personality is minimized or it disappears all together. While we cannot remove all of the pressure, we can minimize most of it."

    Otherwise CHUM, this is only going to get worse. Isn't that obvious? You enjoying this BS? I really doubt it... I'm sure not.
    Screw you guys, I'm going out for a ride now...

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    CHUM, give the Upper Admins an ultimatum....

    Say this:

    "Dismantle and discontinue using the rep system or I will resign from my position and disassociate myself from MTBR. Clearly, it is causing irritation felt equally across the board. Take away the possession, and the possessive personality is minimized or it disappears all together. While we cannot remove all of the pressure, we can minimize most of it."

    Otherwise CHUM, this is only going to get worse. Isn't that obvious? You enjoying this BS? I really doubt it... I'm sure not.



    Uhmmm don't believe we hold a bargaining position. Just sayin.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    CHUM, give the Upper Admins an ultimatum....

    Say this:

    "Dismantle and discontinue using the rep system or I will resign from my position and disassociate myself from MTBR. Clearly, it is causing irritation felt equally across the board. Take away the possession, and the possessive personality is minimized or it disappears all together. While we cannot remove all of the pressure, we can minimize most of it."

    Otherwise CHUM, this is only going to get worse. Isn't that obvious? You enjoying this BS? I really doubt it... I'm sure not.

    While I agree with this, the only place it is really causing any irritation is in this thread and with the super's (and me) who have to deal with it. The rest of MTBR goes on not really caring. That is the point.

    It isn't that big of a deal to any but a minority. Bumped threads were responded to by members in forums and they didn't notice they were from 2004. Others responded in kind and some mentioned something about zombie threads but then others commented once again. No one really cared. No one reported it.

    This is strictly an OC issue. If rep goes away, a large percentage of the users wouldn't care, heck they wouldn't even notice it. Many users have never tried to post in the OC as they are still figuring out their bikes, rides, trails, etc.

    Spammers will still spam, trolls will still troll. This isn't that big, nor is it as big as other issues in the past, which came and went with dramatic admonitions and MTBR is still here, forums keep on and people on a whole come and get a lot of valuable insight into bikes, gear and trails.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion. MTBR wouldn't die without CHUM as a moderator nor me or even shiggy. It wouldn't die without the OC forum, heck it didn't die without the POSER forum which was prophesied by the proponents of that forum.
    Try this: HTFU

  30. #180
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    I really don't see why all of you are throwing fits in here over changes to rep and whatnot.

    Drama!

    Meh. That is what I say. If rep is left here, whatever. If it gets more fundamental changes, whatever. If those changes piss some people off who throw more fits and get themselves banned, whatever. If nothing changes, whatever.

    I will still ride my bikes and I will still want to talk about bikes. I can goof off in other places if this one goes away. It really doesn't matter to me. I am getting annoyed coming into OC and seeing a bunch of whining.

    You likely won't see me posting in here much until the whining gets replaced by more fun threads.

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    While I agree with this, the only place it is really causing any irritation is in this thread and with the super's (and me) who have to deal with it. The rest of MTBR goes on not really caring. That is the point.

    This is strictly an OC issue. If rep goes away, a large percentage of the users wouldn't care, heck they wouldn't even notice it.
    Good words, but listen to them. If the rest of the site isn't going to care one way or the other, I take that as a "why have it at all, then?", and if it's the OCers who have the biggest problem with it, all the more reason to drop it all together.

    You've clearly spelled it out in your own words. Now, get the powers that be to see the light. Push them, and push them hard.

    I've said my peace, now I will bow out and let you get back to your business. Thank you for listening, thank you for all that you guys do here. It is appreciated.
    Screw you guys, I'm going out for a ride now...

  32. #182
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    Some of you guys really take this forum stuff too seriously. Listening to some of you is akin to hearing a shareholders meeting to discuss a failing company.

    It's super simple to understand. I rarely post in the OC, but when I have lurked, it was obvious that some of you were trying to manipulate rep power towards certain people as like a "private club" or something. Hope I'm not pissing anyone off. I contribute often here in Tooltime, the 29er forum, wheels, beginners, etc. When I do lurk over here it almost seems like a seperate place altogether. Can be a little bit off-putting or even intimidating to a newb I suspect.
    Come out from your Off Camber compound and share some of your mountain biking knowledge with members in other forums.

  33. #183
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    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  34. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The site owners have taken our suggestions under consideration, now we need to let this be. I predict perma bans if this continues. Take that for whatever you think it is worth.
    eventually it is going to come down to exactly this...

    what is going to change for the better if we lose CHUM as mod. we may get another mod who will not lend us an ear and will follow the rules to the dot. that'd mean a lot of involuntary vacations and lead to much worse compared to what we have now..

    owners will do whatever they feel fit. CHUM can not do much, except offer us his view on the situation. he does not have to pass our concerns to owners - they can read it themselves.

    why are CHUM or rock doing this for free? because they have fun doing it and are trying to make this site as best as possible... as rock pointed out - this site will exist without anyone in this thread... that is a true story... let's be thankful to our two mods for lending us their ears and not swinging the hatchet....

    let's let it be as AZ suggested but i will pose a question to OC gang...

    if you were given two options:

    1. 10 reps - but no neg rep ability
    2. 5 reps total including neg reps

    what would you choose?
    Last edited by osokolo; 01-08-2013 at 10:40 PM.
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  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    While I agree with this, the only place it is really causing any irritation is in this thread and with the super's (and me) who have to deal with it. The rest of MTBR goes on not really caring. That is the point.

    It isn't that big of a deal to any but a minority. Bumped threads were responded to by members in forums and they didn't notice they were from 2004. Others responded in kind and some mentioned something about zombie threads but then others commented once again. No one really cared. No one reported it.

    This is strictly an OC issue. If rep goes away, a large percentage of the users wouldn't care, heck they wouldn't even notice it. Many users have never tried to post in the OC as they are still figuring out their bikes, rides, trails, etc.

    Spammers will still spam, trolls will still troll. This isn't that big, nor is it as big as other issues in the past, which came and went with dramatic admonitions and MTBR is still here, forums keep on and people on a whole come and get a lot of valuable insight into bikes, gear and trails.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion. MTBR wouldn't die without CHUM as a moderator nor me or even shiggy. It wouldn't die without the OC forum, heck it didn't die without the POSER forum which was prophesied by the proponents of that forum.

    There's a Poser forum... man this place is getting more and more embarrassing by the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    "Am I a mountain biker?" I determined that I was a "Plains Biker" since there are no mountains here where I live now.

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    eventually it is going to come down to exactly this...

    what is going to change for the better if we lose CHUM as mod. we may get another mod who will not lend us an ear and will follow the rules to the dot. that'd mean a lot of involuntary vacations and lead to much worse compared to what we have now..

    owners will do whatever they feel fit. CHUM can not do much, except offer us his view on the situation. he does not have to pass our concerns to owners - they can read it themselves.

    why are CHUM or rock doing this for free? because they have fun doing it and are trying to make this site as best as possible... as rock pointed out - this site will exist without anyone in this thread... that is a true story... let's be thankful to our two mods for lending us their ears and not swinging the hatchet....

    let's let it be as AZ suggested but i will pose a question to Tone's and the rest of the gang...

    if you were given two options:

    1. 10 reps - but no neg rep ability
    2. 5 reps total including neg reps

    what would you choose?
    Why are you singling me out, ive stated twice we should take a breath and let this issue lie, and thats what i will be doing.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Why are you singling me out, ive stated twice we should take a breath and let this issue lie, and thats what i will be doing.
    i am not singling you out. i am sorry if it came across that way bro. you are just as passionate about this subject as anyone else - and you should know by now - i call you out for fun on more than few occasions. see - this situation affects how you read in this case my post... it is not negative bro.

    i don't want to lose this place. with or without rep - we are still the same fun people and that is the reason i am still around here. we had fun without rep. we had fun with rep. we can have fun with or without the rep - can we not. we are losing our sleep over things that are above our pay grade... whatever owners decide - we should still have fun...

    sure - things could have been done differently, with more transparency. but things were done and it is what it is. we can adjust to anything and keep having fun... don't really understand all the negative buzz all of a sudden, like we are around here ONLY to collect as much rep as we can. i love being repped for fun and/or informative posts. everyone does.

    but i love even more - having fun with all of you guys. with or without rep - let's not lose that...
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  38. #188
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    I have been advised by "_" that "locked [space][hyphen][space]time out" is a prohibited custom user title. Jesus H Christ this place is getting lame.

  39. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    Some of you guys really take this forum stuff too seriously. Listening to some of you is akin to hearing a shareholders meeting to discuss a failing company.

    It's super simple to understand. I rarely post in the OC, but when I have lurked, it was obvious that some of you were trying to manipulate rep power towards certain people as like a "private club" or something. Hope I'm not pissing anyone off. I contribute often here in Tooltime, the 29er forum, wheels, beginners, etc. When I do lurk over here it almost seems like a seperate place altogether. Can be a little bit off-putting or even intimidating to a newb I suspect.
    Come out from your Off Camber compound and share some of your mountain biking knowledge with members in other forums.
    We do share outside. I'm certainly no master mind in mountain biking, it's more of a tool to stay healthy, to get away from the rat race, and to enjoy the scenery. Knowing all there is to know about this activity doesn't make me a better human, IMO. Too serious for me. So, I'm far more likely to look for help than to offer it, but I give what I can when I can. Plus, there is at least one thread in here to share bike stuff when we want to, in a more relaxed atmosphere and you will not see any arguing about it, either. So, OC is the place to go to get away from all the seriousness and just goof off for some stress relief. In here, we share wit. Is that really such a bad thing?

    Anyway, peace out Brother!.
    Screw you guys, I'm going out for a ride now...

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    if you were given two options:

    1. 10 reps - but no neg rep ability
    2. 5 reps total including neg reps

    what would you choose?
    Oso, the only correct answer for me would be:

    3. Discontinue the use of a "rep system" all together.

    Sorry, but that's how strongly I feel about it and I don't want to talk about it any more so I am going to unsubscribe to this thread....or just lurk. Don't want to fuel the fire any further.
    Screw you guys, I'm going out for a ride now...

  41. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    i am not singling you out. i am sorry if it came across that way bro. you are just as passionate about this subject as anyone else - and you should know by now - i call you out for fun on more than few occasions. see - this situation affects how you read in this case my post... it is not negative bro.

    i don't want to lose this place. with or without rep - we are still the same fun people and that is the reason i am still around here. we had fun without rep. we had fun with rep. we can have fun with or without the rep - can we not. we are losing our sleep over things that are above our pay grade... whatever owners decide - we should still have fun...

    sure - things could have been done differently, with more transparency. but things were done and it is what it is. we can adjust to anything and keep having fun... don't really understand all the negative buzz all of a sudden, like we are around here ONLY to collect as much rep as we can. i love being repped for fun and/or informative posts. everyone does.

    but i love even more - having fun with all of you guys. with or without rep - let's not lose that...
    Cheers Oso, I came here to start for the bikes, but its the great quality of people here that have kept me here, some say this is just a website, but its more than that for me and i would guess many others here.

    Its a community, a place to come and share ideas, exchange cultures, talk bikes, make friends in other parts of the world, share cheeky banter, and most importantly for me the ability to laugh and if im real lucky make somebody else laugh, if i can do that once a day its something that means a lot to me.

    So regardless of anything issues in this thread your right, its the things you and i have pointed out above that really mean something, those things will stay the same, this is a special community that we all contribute a lil something special too, and thats the most important thing, all the rest is unimportant in comparison to that.

    Cheers Oso, its all about the love, and ive got my eye on you,..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    Oso, the only correct answer for me would be:

    3. Discontinue the use of a "rep system" all together.

    Sorry, but that's how strongly I feel about it and I don't want to talk about it any more so I am going to unsubscribe to this thread....or just lurk. Don't want to fuel the fire any further.
    thanks 'hawg - i'd take anything - just to go back to fun OC times...
    i think i will follow your footprints - out of this thread... lurker status...
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  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    We do share outside. I'm certainly no master mind in mountain biking, it's more of a tool to stay healthy, to get away from the rat race, and to enjoy the scenery. Knowing all there is to know about this activity doesn't make me a better human, IMO. Too serious for me. So, I'm far more likely to look for help than to offer it, but I give what I can when I can. Plus, there is at least one thread in here to share bike stuff when we want to, in a more relaxed atmosphere and you will not see any arguing about it, either. So, OC is the place to go to get away from all the seriousness and just goof off for some stress relief. In here, we share wit. Is that really such a bad thing?

    Anyway, peace out Brother!.
    No hard feelings man, and I wasn't being specific about members. I checked this place out a bit a few months ago and there were several "Rep Spreading" threads. Thats all I meant. For a member who does most of their posting outside the lounge that is the OC, taking a visit here back then would probably seem like it was "cliqueish". Ya know? I sure in the hell don't want to get in an argument over fork travel with a guy that has 200 rep points......know what I mean? I'm certain that super high rep count members can be intimidating to some. Furthermore, I totally agree about being too serious or too technical all the time. Takes the fun out of our wonderful sport. I love mountain biking, I work in a shop, and I love this forum. I think I might hang around here a bit more and get a true feel for you guys.........Peace.

  44. #194
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    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Cheers Oso, I came here to start for the bikes, but its the great quality of people here that have kept me here, some say this is just a website, but its more than that for me and i would guess many others here.

    Its a community, a place to come and share ideas, exchange cultures, talk bikes, make friends in other parts of the world, share cheeky banter, and most importantly for me the ability to laugh and if im real lucky make somebody else laugh, if i can do that once a day its something that means a lot to me.

    So regardless of anything issues in this thread your right, its the things you and i have pointed out above that really mean something, those things will stay the same, this is a special community that we all contribute a lil something special too, and thats the most important thing, all the rest is unimportant in comparison to that.

    Cheers Oso, its all about the love, and ive got my eye on you,..
    i just said i'd get out of this thread - but feel i have to break my commitment just to thank you for a nice heartfelt post.

    that is what OC gang is about... WIN

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  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    i just said i'd get out of this thread - but feel i have to break my commitment just to thank you for a nice heartfelt post.

    that is what OC gang is about... WIN

    i haven't cried like this since Titanic

  47. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post

    Cheers Oso, its all about the love, and ive got my eye on you,..
    Damn, does that mean I have to give you the Bigfoot costume back? Better see if I can get that protien stain out.

  48. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    Damn, does that mean I have to give you the Bigfoot costume back? Better see if I can get that protien stain out.
    Please Emu, im not ready to come out as a furry yet on MTBR, and nor should you be....
    Thats secret mens business...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  49. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    A new user wouldn't have the same rep score as a vet, the weight of ones post would be backed by years of positive contributions reflected in a score accumulated by many good posts.

    If my suggestion is a poor compromise then I am at a loss as to how the rep system can better serve us. I agree the system is flawed, if we are at a loss as to how to fix it then there is no easy answer and we ought to accept it for what it is and not expect the admins to fare any better with this quandary.
    I misinterpreted your idea. I see what you are saying now, but everyone would have the same positive rep power if they supported a post. A users rep would be the total of what was received, but there would still be people "hoarding" rep and rep threads. This idea, to me, is very similar to just not having neg rep. AZ, I, and a new member would just have the "same" power if we liked a post, but all of our rep scores would vary.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  50. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I misinterpreted your idea. I see what you are saying now, but everyone would have the same positive rep power if they supported a post. A users rep would be the total of what was received, but there would still be people "hoarding" rep and rep threads. This idea, to me, is very similar to just not having neg rep. AZ, I, and a new member would just have the "same" power if we liked a post, but all of our rep scores would vary.
    That's correct and I admit far from perfect, yet acompromise. Repeated reps within groups would occur but rep scores would cease to grow exponentially, which seems to be the concern that inspired the recent changes. Neg rep would better be utilized as a filtering tool and pos rep would serve to make quality posts quickly identifiable.

    Really I don't have a strong opinion about what to do, I am just trying to be constructive and show how difficult it is to appease the masses while doing so. If any changes are to be considered I just want whatever will make it easier to get to the good stuff and have more of it.

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