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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    first of all thank you for the well thought out post - you all here in the OC (most of ya hooligans) are really great contributors to MTBR in both specialized MTB knowledge and for having fun

    But bolded in red above - therein lies a problem....a real problem.

    sometimes y'all hit the nail on the head and virtually destroy (via rep) a nasty troll.....but sometimes (more than once) y'all have completely obliterated a noob who would not back down from a stupid comment.

    One case was a guy who earned well over -450 rep points within an hour....he was not a troll....just an opinionated noob.

    I understand there is no planning this, nor is there any malice - it is all done with the best of intentions....but it is a 'pack' mentality that has grown organically (for lack of a better term)....

    It is VERY intimidating to all members when they see 8 or 10 cats with rep in the 100's all jumping in at the same time backing each other up....

    but of course the stick swings both ways and y'all have + rep'd plenty into the green chiclet sword of 'acceptance'....which is all warm and fuzzy...

    Those of you with massive rep power really need to think about who you 'zap'....for that person you gave a bright greenie could very well be a *****bag, and the member you gave red could be a real positive contributor super cool person in a few months/weeks...

    And just so ya know - the Admins and site owners do care...they are just trying to find balance on a HUGE forum in a timely fashion to solve a potential problem before it sets in so deep it can't be 'fixed'...

    hope this makes sense....
    Cheers Chum, thanks for reading my post and the fair reply.

    I doubt if you remember when i came onto the scene but i was taken into about -500 red after my first post, i never had any help from mods getting out of it, admittedly it was a thread taking the piss, but i didnt let it deter me, i learned from my mistakes and i would hope i ended up being a decent contributer..

    For the odd guy that gets put into the red imo its not worth changing the whole system for, i think its a fairly rare situation where a guy goes into the red for nothing, there is basically always a reason, and i think it kept the peace and order about the place.

    Anyway Chum, i hope admin reads this thread and i do appreciate you taking the time to communicate with us because to be honest you and Crusher are the only ones that do and im sure it doesnt go un noticed, communication = respect and that shows that you care, and in turn that gains respect from us members..

    I just hope the door isnt shut to a few further fine tunes to the rep system in a positive way not a negative one.

    Cheers mate
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Funny . . . I don't recall this being a problem before "rep" was implemented . . . Hmmm . . . how could we rectify this?



    Wait for it . . .
    There it is.

    I never saw the point of the rep system, besides amusement, and since we, the OC, rendered it totally worthless, it may as well be dissolved.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by PixieChik View Post
    heh heh... are you talking about my bone-headed pedal-replacement thread? I never claimed to have common sense. But I'm always willing to experiment
    i love to experiment too...
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    It would, if somebody would be smart enough to stop handing out bans.
    Some genius just sent Spinning Lizard the same direction as Hutch, with the same great and super transparent style of communication.
    Somehow the result of that ought to be reasonably predictable, no?


    Magura
    i noticed that too... do we know why?
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Well CHUM since you opened this up for debate a few thoughts
    Creating oc and locking the recycling bin was imo a mistake. Think it puts the bs, off topic, and personality threads more mainstream and makes it legit. Think just about anyone wouldn't feel so proud and or self righteous when jumping in the dumpster to mix things up. Just keeps the shananagins at bay and somewhat in their place without having to ban or reprimand. Which leads me to my next point.

    Think people should get timed out and banned more often but for being d!ckheads or nasty, not for doing something like bumping old threads in the name of fun. i don't know all the details and don't want to, but in this case I think a pm would have done the trick. If wasting bandwidth was the reason, than whoever gave him time out should be timed out too, because of all the threads that were created to save him. Seems fair, and also seems that random, sudden, and sorta outa left field acts like that have, can and will effect the mood or feel of this place. Which brings me to my next point.

    While a could hardly care about the rep system and think in many ways it should go away, I'm not gonna go there, aside to say that it has become obvious that some hang some worth on it. So think it was a bad decision to just wham, change it, then sorta, hardly be open to ideas or discussion, then wham change it again. Like the hutch thing i just don't get it. Do you guys like making work for yourselves? Why not at least post up the new rules/guidlines by which rep is calculated so it seems fair again?
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  6. #81
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    reality check

    This site is paid for by advertising money. It's free for the most part to users (classifieds is a small fee). If a couple of dozen people realy feel this site is going to miss them, if they leave. They are sadly mistaken. Don't let the door hit you in your chapped a$$ on the way out.

    Those upset about the rep system form a klan in OC (many of them already hung out there. Coincident?)Goes out into other forums and acts the fool. Post a couple of feel good. I'm helping the community threads. For some smoke and mirror diversion. In hopes of furthering their pointless cause. All over a green turd? Seriously?

    Sadly the ass hatery(is that a word), elitiesm and entilment you see on forums. Are also seen on the trails. Is this really the direction we want to go?

  7. #82
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    I obviously missed a lot today.
    Disclaimer: I have not read every single comment in this thread. Sorry if some of these issues have been addressed.....



    Chum you seem like an awesome guy. I respect you for starting this thread to have someplace to discuss the recent tragic events of mtbr and the holy grail of all forums on the internet, The Off Camber.

    Of all the forums, chat rooms, xanga, myspace, yourspace, ICQ#, crap places that I've been a member of, The Off Camber is one of a kind. Most of us have never ever met, but yet we pretty much all get along in here. There are a few weird ones, but we just leave them in the corner to much on the niblets that fall to the ground. Anyways, not only do we get along, but we all share the same passion.....no not mountain biking....that's a gimme......it's HAVING FUN! We all love this little piece of internet heaven, because we know we are going to laugh, make jokes, cry....yada-yada. You get the point.

    So when one of our brothers, and also a big contributor to MTBR, gets temp-banned for trying to bring some fun back to the O.C. and Gen Discussion (I don't know where else he played in), then please expect to see us stick up for him/her. Just like in real life, I would do this for a friend. Yeah you guys don't really know me, but trust me I would.

    Also the "bumping eleventybillion oldie threads" was not defined in the rules as getting an instant ban. To be honest, many of those threads were worth a second look. Just because it fell to the abyss doesn't mean it's a crap thread. Being a newbie to this site, many of those threads were "new" to me. I actually spent hours that night on mtbr just reading and commenting on those threads that Hutch bumped to the top. Anyways, a warning would have been more appropriate. If I treated my kids the way that mtbr treats its members, then my kids would always be in timeout. Never knowing what they did wrong, just that somebody didn't like what they did. I would also be looked at as a bad parent. Instead of dealing with the situation, just avoid it and throw the kids in timeout because it's easier and faster.
    I like to hug trees at FULL SPEED!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll View Post
    This site is paid for by advertising money. It's free for the most part to users (classifieds is a small fee). If a couple of dozen people realy feel this site is going to miss them, if they leave. They are sadly mistaken. Don't let the door hit you in your chapped a$$ on the way out.

    Those upset about the rep system form a klan in OC (many of them already hung out there. Coincident?)Goes out into other forums and acts the fool. Post a couple of feel good. I'm helping the community threads. For some smoke and mirror diversion. In hopes of furthering their pointless cause. All over a green turd? Seriously?

    Sadly the ass hatery(is that a word), elitiesm and entilment you see on forums. Are also seen on the trails. Is this really the direction we want to go?
    Were you absent on how to properly use a period day?

    Sorry, I'll try harder to resist.

    Seriously, free Hutch.
    "I love the bike. It's my meditation. I think I'm bike-sexual." -Robin Williams

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll View Post
    This site is paid for by advertising money. It's free for the most part to users (classifieds is a small fee). If a couple of dozen people realy feel this site is going to miss them, if they leave. They are sadly mistaken. Don't let the door hit you in your chapped a$$ on the way out.

    Those upset about the rep system form a klan in OC (many of them already hung out there. Coincident?)Goes out into other forums and acts the fool. Post a couple of feel good. I'm helping the community threads. For some smoke and mirror diversion. In hopes of furthering their pointless cause. All over a green turd? Seriously?

    Sadly the ass hatery(is that a word), elitiesm and entilment you see on forums. Are also seen on the trails. Is this really the direction we want to go?
    Enlightening and prophetic words, from somebody that offers zero to the forums apart from the the type of post above, seeings all you do is whinge and whine, i would suggest you go back and read your last 50 posts back and get a comprehension of the person you come across as, your constant tough guy, insulting, and arrogant posts are exactly what detracts from this great sit, i feel sorry for you...
    Every other person in this thread has been able to put their point across without resorting to the insults and put downs apart from you, you do this in EVERY tread you enter with no exceptions.
    You make 0.35 posts a day and you use every one of those to put others down, troll, try and trow your weight around and start trouble, exactly what you have done in this thread, and i would guess this comes from a very low self esteem, as i said i feel sorry for you.
    cheers.

    Apologies chum to have to do that in your thread, but that needed to be said.
    Last edited by Tone's; 01-07-2013 at 11:43 PM.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll View Post
    This site is paid for by advertising money. It's free for the most part to users (classifieds is a small fee). If a couple of dozen people realy feel this site is going to miss them, if they leave. They are sadly mistaken. Don't let the door hit you in your chapped a$$ on the way out.

    Those upset about the rep system form a klan in OC (many of them already hung out there. Coincident?)Goes out into other forums and acts the fool. Post a couple of feel good. I'm helping the community threads. For some smoke and mirror diversion. In hopes of furthering their pointless cause. All over a green turd? Seriously?

    Sadly the ass hatery(is that a word), elitiesm and entilment you see on forums. Are also seen on the trails. Is this really the direction we want to go?
    Actually Chum surely this is the sort of trolling and baiting you are talking about that was going to earn people in OC an immediate time out? If you're unsure of the posters intent, just look at his user name.

    Mojo Troll, I hope the slammer door doesn't hit you in the ar$e on the way to the brink.

    I'll save my chiclets for people that deserve them, safe in the knowledge that the rules and intent have now clearly been spelt out for us and the site mods will deal with the garbage above on our behalf.

    Thanks Chum et all.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonefrontranger View Post
    ^^ this. except I've been lurking since 2004 and only recently found this place. After dealing with the front range crew I was about to give up on MTBR entirely. luckily I'm an early usenet survivor and keep my asbestos skivvies handy.

    tl;dr: you've not had a knock down drag out brawl of a flamewar until you've stumbled onto one of the "trail building" threads in the Front Range forum and mistakenly tried to be helpful. jeebus indeed.
    To be fair, this place hasn't even been around for a full year yet. So you're not too far behind the times.

    As for all the butthurt over rep and the mass-migration to other forums, I'm not into that. I don't care enough to make another account on another forum (I'm actually still registered on the DirtRag forums). It seems that pretty much everyone still posts here anyways, so that's that.
    I've made some bad decisions like taking the gears off my bike. So here's the warning: Do not as I say, nor as I do.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll View Post
    All over a green turd? Seriously?
    This seems to be the common misconception about the folks who hang out in the off camber. If you were to take a poll you would find most of these same people would have the rep system abolished all together.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Enlightening and prophetic words, from somebody that offers zero to the forums apart from the the type of post above, seeings all you do is whinge and whine, i would suggest you go back and read your last 50 posts back and get a comprehension of the person you come across as, your constant tough guy, insulting, and arrogant posts are exactly what detracts from this great sit, i feel sorry for you...
    Every other person in this thread has been able to put their point across without resorting to the insults and put downs apart from you, you do this in EVERY tread you enter with no exceptions.
    You make 0.35 posts a day and you use every one of those to put others down, troll, try and trow your weight around and start trouble, exactly what you have done in this thread, and i would guess this comes from a very low self esteem, as i said i feel sorry for you.
    cheers.

    Apologies chum to have to do that in your thread, but that needed to be said.
    Thank you for passing judgement on me. Heres a post of yours from another forum in regards to this topic. (names deleted to protect the innocent)


    TonesBones







    Posted: 2 days ago

    Quote







    XXXXXXXXXX wrote:



    I understand XXXXXXXXXX was a big negative repper
    Are we going to pee in his cheerios too ?


    I dont care how many people think the sun shines out of XXXXXXXX ass, but his threads are the biggest rainbow chasing, unicorn milking, candy cotton farting load of self important dribble on MTBR.
    How many pictures can the guy take of himself, how many can he take of his family, life,dog,snow,trees, i dont buy into his dribble, when a post makes me want to vomit reading it, thats a sign to me.

    The guy remings me of a mtb version of Billy Mitchell, the king of kong, just makes me sick.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Rather than send you childish negative rep. As you have me. I'll simply ask you in public. Please stop passing judgement on me. Perhaps you should take a good look in the mirror before casting stones. BTW, you fit in great over at PinkBike.

    Maybe Malibu can help you on your grammer and use of periods, as well.







    Posted: 2 days ago

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll View Post
    Thank you for passing judgement on me. Heres a post of yours from another forum in regards to this topic. (names deleted to protect the innocent)


    TonesBones







    Posted: 2 days ago

    Quote







    XXXXXXXXXX wrote:



    I understand XXXXXXXXXX was a big negative repper
    Are we going to pee in his cheerios too ?


    I dont care how many people think the sun shines out of XXXXXXXX ass, but his threads are the biggest rainbow chasing, unicorn milking, candy cotton farting load of self important dribble on MTBR.
    How many pictures can the guy take of himself, how many can he take of his family, life,dog,snow,trees, i dont buy into his dribble, when a post makes me want to vomit reading it, thats a sign to me.

    The guy remings me of a mtb version of Billy Mitchell, the king of kong, just makes me sick.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Rather than send you childish negative rep. As you have me. I'll simply ask you in public. Please stop passing judgement on me. Perhaps you should take a good look in the mirror before casting stones. BTW, you fit in great over at PinkBike.

    Maybe Malibu can help you on your grammer and use of periods, as well.







    Posted: 2 days ago
    Nothing wrong with that at all, ive said the exact same thing about the guy on here, the exact same thing, and i stand by those words.
    And its a bit rich to ask others to not pass judgement on you when you do it yourself all the time..
    cheers
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride View Post
    Rep is like gang colors. With all the problems it brings.
    The rep system was fine with one exception and that was the anonymous part. This was the reason that there were flamewars going on because some childish trolls would make snide irrelevant comments and devalue the rep number of members who contribute valuable information.
    Rep 'power' is based on # of posts and how valuable they are to the community as a whole. The system was toyed with in the OC simply to counteract the anonymous neg reps that would follow certain members. Now that this has been eliminated, the negative peeps have been basically stopped cold and this site can move forward in a more positive way. Just my 0.02 cts. YMMV
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT

  16. #91
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    I remember not too long ago when moderators were begging us for content on MTBR to show to advertisers for revenue, in the form of writing up Reviews, and for doing so, they would extend the length of your sword. Posters making posts here ARE the content of MTBR that generates revenue dollars. The moderators work for free, while a few folks up at the top collect the advertising revenue checks on posts that all of us make on the bulletin board.

    For a while there, I was an Outdoors writer / photojournalist for the Los Angeles Daily News. The internet and Bulletin Boards put an end to that, bored people will write and post for free on the internet about outdoors activities, for everyone to read, for free.

    No paycheck, I stopped writing and taking pictures. You'll notice the shills and the folks that run a bike business like building wheels or Mikesee are the ones posting up the most photo content, and all of his photos are watermarked. It's spam, Mike is too cheap to pay for advertising here on MTBR.

    It is a unique business model, MTBR rely's on its regular posters for product, then turns around and sells it to advertisers, in the form of hits, or peak traffic numbers. Without us posting, they have no content to sell, no hits, no revenue generators without those hits.
    "i'll brazilian when YOU do boy, right around the ol' rusty star. Actually, whole fruit bowl. Get on it!" NicoleB

  17. #92
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    So what are you sayin Randy? That mtbr is a facade for someone's get rich plan, it's a conspiracy, or are you looking to get paid? Don't see how that matters or suggests anything to improve things, and if you come here to enjoy the members, or add to or take in some info and it's free what's the beef
    Round and round we go

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by banonymous View Post
    Posters are a dime a dozen.

    They could literally invent them out of thin air.

    MTBR has gone from a place of 'just hangin out' to profiteering off of an industry that is seemingly progressing at an uncontrollable rate. That, my friend, is mostly the fault of the consumer.
    It's still a win win for the mtb community. What better way to share info from consumers, pretty much asap, than personal experience and for free. Even I, who pretty much knows everything already, have learned a ton from mtbr.
    But I agree, you can either police the members and content for the sake of keeping the place clean and respectful for even the youngest of people, or you can sell out to hits and let the place become a zoo. Seems that mtbr has been choosing more of the later lately.
    Round and round we go

  19. #94
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    Wow...
    Mojo Troll - "Please stop passing judgement on me." Impossible, your recent posts are inflammatory, judgmental, appear to stir the pot, and create a (-) effect.
    Best be prepared for jail time, no lube for you - Buttercup.

    Randy, Great insight into the business model, and changes that effect freelance writer's. Thx 4 sharing.

    Meat, Your $0.03 is priceless, and IMO - spot on.
    The best is the one you want to ride most often..

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    first of all thank you for the well thought out post - you all here in the OC (most of ya hooligans) are really great contributors to MTBR in both specialized MTB knowledge and for having fun

    But bolded in red above - therein lies a problem....a real problem.

    sometimes y'all hit the nail on the head and virtually destroy (via rep) a nasty troll.....but sometimes (more than once) y'all have completely obliterated a noob who would not back down from a stupid comment.

    One case was a guy who earned well over -450 rep points within an hour....he was not a troll....just an opinionated noob.

    I understand there is no planning this, nor is there any malice - it is all done with the best of intentions....but it is a 'pack' mentality that has grown organically (for lack of a better term)....

    It is VERY intimidating to all members when they see 8 or 10 cats with rep in the 100's all jumping in at the same time backing each other up....

    but of course the stick swings both ways and y'all have + rep'd plenty into the green chiclet sword of 'acceptance'....which is all warm and fuzzy...

    Those of you with massive rep power really need to think about who you 'zap'....for that person you gave a bright greenie could very well be a *****bag, and the member you gave red could be a real positive contributor super cool person in a few months/weeks...

    And just so ya know - the Admins and site owners do care...they are just trying to find balance on a HUGE forum in a timely fashion to solve a potential problem before it sets in so deep it can't be 'fixed'...

    hope this makes sense....
    Well I am a noob still (only joined in june) and I don't think it was intimidating at all. Most people here actually welcomed me and I don't think I ever went into red (got a few red chics but never went into the red).

    I think a lot of the new members are going in the red is because they are posting one word anwsers, like interesting, and not really participating so they can hit their 10 posts before they can create a thread asking what bike they should buy. So they do bring it on themselves some times. Maybe get rid of the neg reps all together and that might solve some problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    the big aussie rep bomb is comin your way

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    So what are you sayin Randy? That mtbr is a facade for someone's get rich plan, it's a conspiracy, or are you looking to get paid? Don't see how that matters or suggests anything to improve things, and if you come here to enjoy the members, or add to or take in some info and it's free what's the beef
    What he is saying, is that the value to the owners of MTBR, is the members.
    In short is a deal between the members and the owners, that the owners supply a reasonable environment that keeps the contributing members reasonably happy, and the members supply the content.

    Once the owners fail to offer a reasonable environment, that keeps the contributing members reasonably happy, the content suffers, which is bad business for the owners.

    So to spell it out, the owners are dependent on the members, and once they fail to see that, things goes downhill real quick.
    What we have seen here in the last couple of weeks, is a prime example of just that.


    Magura

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    So what are you sayin Randy? That mtbr is a facade for someone's get rich plan, it's a conspiracy, or are you looking to get paid? Don't see how that matters or suggests anything to improve things, and if you come here to enjoy the members, or add to or take in some info and it's free what's the beef
    I'm not sure I see a beef in Randy's remarks. It comes across to me a statement that, although we enjoy the use of the forum free of charge, our participation has monetary value for the site owners.

    Seems an interesting business model, wealth is generated and the users benefit in form of information and entertainment.

    Still, my question is how does the rep system mutually benefit both parties? This is the only forum I visit having instituted such a system and I am truly curious.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I'm not sure I see a beef in Randy's remarks. It comes across to me a statement that, although we enjoy the use of the forum free of charge, our participation has monetary value for the site owners.

    Seems an interesting business model, wealth is generated and the users benefit in form of information and entertainment.

    Still, my question is how does the rep system mutually benefit both parties? This is the only forum I visit having instituted such a system and I am truly curious.



    Rep creates content which drives up viewer and post numbers which drive revenues.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Rep creates content which drives up viewer and post numbers which drive revenues.
    I've read that before but I am unclear how Rep creates content unless the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by banonymous View Post
    Posters are a dime a dozen.

    They could literally invent them out of thin air.

    MTBR has gone from a place of 'just hangin out' to profiteering off of an industry that is seemingly progressing at an infinite rate. That, my friend, is mostly the fault of the consumer.
    I don't think MTBR was ever intended to be a place of 'just hanging out'. My guess is that it was always intended to be a place of profiteering.

    I've built hundreds of websites and not one of my clients was in it just to provide a nice place to be. A lot of them have made sites about subjects that they have no interest in whatsoever, simply because they thought there was money to be made.
    I have a device that can access the total knowledge of man. I use it to look at pictures of cats and argue with strangers.

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