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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    What he is saying, is that the value to the owners of MTBR, is the members.
    In short is a deal between the members and the owners, that the owners supply a reasonable environment that keeps the contributing members reasonably happy, and the members supply the content.

    Once the owners fail to offer a reasonable environment, that keeps the contributing members reasonably happy, the content suffers, which is bad business for the owners.

    So to spell it out, the owners are dependent on the members, and once they fail to see that, things goes downhill real quick.
    What we have seen here in the last couple of weeks, is a prime example of just that.


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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.


    .....

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I've read that before but I am unclear how Rep creates content unless the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.
    Yup, if I may AZ. It keeps people coming back and gives them something personal they can try and control. Don't think it works?, just look at how many members went a bit ape sh!t when mtbr changed it some.
    Round and round we go

  4. #104
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    I have no problem with folks creating wealth and believe this site and others like it are a positive way to do it. I like the term profiteering conveying a sense that this place is some evil empire, I doubt anyone is getting taken advantage of while getting filthy rich in the process.

  5. #105
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    There's no such thing as free internet/information. I pay 65 bucks a month for the privilege of being online. At least the ads on here are relevant to the site which is more than I can say about other forums I've been on.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by banonymous View Post
    If that is true then whole ideology behind the internet and "free information" gets broken down, and it becomes a myth. ...not that there is anything wrong with that. Just be honest about it.
    Absolutely. That myth died with the first ad or request for a donation.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Yup, if I may AZ. It keeps people coming back and gives them something personal they can try and control. Don't think it works?, just look at how many members went a bit ape sh!t when mtbr changed it some.
    Thanks fellas, obviously there are things about sociology and market analysis of which I am blissfully ignorant.

    The question still remains for me how the rep system is mutually beneficial. It generates more activity and thus profit, but how does it positively affect users any more so than it produces strife amongst us?

    Again, I'm not making a statement.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany1 View Post
    There's no such thing as free internet/information. I pay 65 bucks a month for the privilege of being online. At least the ads on here are relevant to the site which is more than I can say about other forums I've been on.



    That idea went out the window when Al Gore sold the internet to Al-Jazzera.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I've read that before but I am unclear how Rep creates content unless the idea is that rep attracts more activity then would be without it.
    How many threads have been started about rep? Atleast a hundred. And thousands of posts in those threads. That's content that did not exist without the rep system.

    I think the real intent is to give more legitimacy to the website. Those that contribute with high quality content should have a higher rep level. This lets visitors and newbies know who they can trust. Lower quality content should be ignored, not +repped, and allowed to move off the front page.
    Through this, several objectives can be attained:
    The overall content of the forum should improve.
    Forum members encourage quality posts through +reps. This teaches new members what they should be posting and what they shouldn't.
    Visitors get better content and more of them register.
    Higher visitor and registered user numbers go up, attracting advertisers.


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  10. #110
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    I personally believe that off topic forums like Off Camber should be exempt from post counts and reps. That way, only posts that actually contribute to primary content of the forum affect users reputation on the forum.
    One other forum I am a member of uses post counts to build a member rating system. Too many members simply padded their post counts in the Off Topic forum and never posted any quality content in the other forums. The admins stopped counting Off Topic posts and the boards overall quality improved greatly.
    Off Camber is a place of fun, games and entertainment. You will never hear me say get rid of it. But if posts in Off Camber were not rep-able, the whole forum would be better for it, IMHO.


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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    And just so ya know - the Admins and site owners do care...they are just trying to find balance on a HUGE forum in a timely fashion to solve a potential problem before it sets in so deep it can't be 'fixed'....
    So, is it fixed now? Or, are they still working on it?

    Who are the site owners and admins that do care? Why do they not come in and participate in this thread if this is an important topic to them?

    Look in the OC on any given day and you'll see hundreds (if not thousands) of lurkers. They're not here by mistake. Most likely a google search pulled up a link in the OC. Why? Because just about every topic imaginable has been discussed here in less than a year. All of these lurkers exposed to MTBR from a search hit equals more money for MTBR (ad revenue).

    My opinion of what happened to the rep system: When the anonymity was removed, those who were true hateful trolls (you know who they are) were exposed and justly retaliated against. Some of these trolls were very important people with long tenures and high post counts. Much whining ensued and the rep system was "fixed" by adding more weight to your tenure and post count. Funny thing is that tenure doesn't make you a good contributor. And, post count is easily inflated (in a word association thread, for instance). And, now it's "fixed".

    Some of the true a$$hats were rewarded with an instantly higher rep power while those of us who do contribute (inside the OC and in other forums) were penalized. No reasoning given. No appeal process.

    I don't believe the site owners / admins really care. I hope you can convince me otherwise.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    That idea went out the window when Al Gore sold the internet to Al-Jazzera.
    Lol, wouldn't put it past him. I don't really have a problem with him selling current tv to al jah whoeva, if you support a free market how could you. But think it's criminal for him to profit from a law that arguably he alone created, and that's why he owned a channel, and how he gained tons of tax payer dollars from a mostly unwilling and/or unknowing public.
    Round and round we go

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    How many threads have been started about rep? Atleast a hundred. And thousands of posts in those threads. That's content that did not exist without the rep system.

    I think the real intent is to give more legitimacy to the website. Those that contribute with high quality content should have a higher rep level. This lets visitors and newbies know who they can trust. Lower quality content should be ignored, not +repped, and allowed to move off the front page.
    Through this, several objectives can be attained:
    The overall content of the forum should improve.
    Forum members encourage quality posts through +reps. This teaches new members what they should be posting and what they shouldn't.
    Visitors get better content and more of them register.
    Higher visitor and registered user numbers go up, attracting advertisers.


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    Yes, I recognize now that the rep system generates activity but the example of posts about Rep does so whilst devaluing the quality of the sites content.

    Does the intent match the results? User participation will heavily influence the accuracy of how well ones rep score reflects the value of their posts. There are some great contributors here with very low rep scores on account of not passing out rep and rarely venturing out of a favored sub forum, the transverse can be said as well.

  14. #114
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    Some very valid points there Marpilli
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  15. #115
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    It appears I missed a lot when I was in Alabama for Christmas. I read all of these posts and it appears that every point I was going to make has already been made.

    P.S. Thanks Chum for the open dialogue. We need more of that and it's too rare.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Yes, I recognize now that the rep system generates activity but the example of posts about Rep does so whilst devaluing the quality of the sites content.

    Does the intent match the results? User participation will heavily influence the accuracy of how well ones rep score reflects the value of their posts. There are some great contributors here with very low rep scores on account of not passing out rep and rarely venturing out of a favored sub forum, the transverse can be said as well.
    Yes this is true and I do believe some here went to help show their appreciation. The main problem with this is a lot of people (especially in the beginners thread) don't know or just don't rep. Where as in the other forums they do but only neg rep if you ask a question they think is dumc.
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  17. #117
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    This is just an idea-

    Modify the rep system so users rep the post rather than the user as has been suggested before and instituted elsewhere and generate user rep scores based on the votes your posts receive.

    Not perfect but it would seem to garner more rep based upon the quality of posts and eliminate the intimidation factor for noobs wishing to avoid being moderated by fellow users having higher rep scores than others.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    This is just an idea-

    Modify the rep system so users rep the post rather than the user as has been suggested before and instituted elsewhere and generate user rep scores based on the votes your posts receive.

    Not perfect but it would seem to garner more rep based upon the quality of posts and eliminate the intimidation factor for noobs wishing to avoid being moderated by fellow users having higher rep scores than others.


    Thats what I do anyway. Contrary to popular belief most of the rep that gets handed out by OCers used to go to other forums. Now that they cut it back to 5 a day, not so much. EPIC FAIL.

  19. #119
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    The site owners are all off FOAMAPPING figuring out how to maximize revenue, while the admins are doing similarly figuring out how they are going to get a raise. With the implementation of an off topic section and a rep system and copious amounts of pot stirring it appears they're doing a fine job eh. Interest sure has spiked for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    So, is it fixed now? Or, are they still working on it?

    Who are the site owners and admins that do care? Why do they not come in and participate in this thread if this is an important topic to them?

    Look in the OC on any given day and you'll see hundreds (if not thousands) of lurkers. They're not here by mistake. Most likely a google search pulled up a link in the OC. Why? Because just about every topic imaginable has been discussed here in less than a year. All of these lurkers exposed to MTBR from a search hit equals more money for MTBR (ad revenue).

    My opinion of what happened to the rep system: When the anonymity was removed, those who were true hateful trolls (you know who they are) were exposed and justly retaliated against. Some of these trolls were very important people with long tenures and high post counts. Much whining ensued and the rep system was "fixed" by adding more weight to your tenure and post count. Funny thing is that tenure doesn't make you a good contributor. And, post count is easily inflated (in a word association thread, for instance). And, now it's "fixed".

    Some of the true a$$hats were rewarded with an instantly higher rep power while those of us who do contribute (inside the OC and in other forums) were penalized. No reasoning given. No appeal process.

    I don't believe the site owners / admins really care. I hope you can convince me otherwise.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Thats what I do anyway. Contrary to popular belief most of the rep that gets handed out by OCers used to go to other forums. Now that they cut it back to 5 a day, not so much. EPIC FAIL.
    Well I can attest to this as I have only ever received rep from you when I had posted something of value, but I'm suggesting rep power be equal across the board, if 20 people like your post you get 20 rep regardless of who you receive it from.

  21. #121
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    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.
    so then removing the ability to neg rep would not work for you?
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.
    Agreed. A new user should not have the same rep as someone that has been here for years.

    As we all know the rep system is broken, but there is no easy fix. I don't agree with making everyone equal.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Sounds like "everyone is a winner" to me, I'm not a big fan of parity.
    Not really. Good contributors would possess good rep scores and useful posts with accurate info would have high ratings.

    I'm not wanting to level the playing field, just figure a way to increase how accurately rep scores reflect the members and increase civility.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Wow...
    Mojo Troll - "Please stop passing judgement on me." Impossible, your recent posts are inflammatory, judgmental, appear to stir the pot, and create a (-) effect.
    Best be prepared for jail time, no lube for you - Buttercup.
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    It would appear that he has by-passed the brink and gone straight to exile island

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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    so then removing the ability to neg rep would not work for you?



    Not that my opinion means anything in these matters but, neg rep serves a purpose. I have posted this before but here it goes again, if you get rid of anything, get rid of the whole thing.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Not really. Good contributors would possess good rep scores and useful posts with accurate info would have high ratings.

    I'm not wanting to level the playing field, just figure a way to increase how accurately rep scores reflect the members and increase civility.



    I humbly suggest that the admin accurately set the rep scores in the last reset. At least that was the intention.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Not that my opinion means anything in these matters but, neg rep serves a purpose. I have posted this before but here it goes again, if you get rid of anything, get rid of the whole thing.

    what purpose is that?

    trolls will have very little rep....noobs who inevitably say something stoopid cannot be blasted into oblivion....positive contributors will continue to gain rep....

    I'm trying to find a real reason why neg repping is in any way shape or form necessary....because to date it is primarily used to snipe/insult/bully other users (whether deserved or not).
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Not that my opinion means anything in these matters but, neg rep serves a purpose. I have posted this before but here it goes again, if you get rid of anything, get rid of the whole thing.
    I agree with this. If I am completely wrong or way out of line I should get a neg. rep or told hey you're breaking a norm.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Agreed. A new user should not have the same rep as someone that has been here for years.

    As we all know the rep system is broken, but there is no easy fix. I don't agree with making everyone equal.
    A new user wouldn't have the same rep score as a vet, the weight of ones post would be backed by years of positive contributions reflected in a score accumulated by many good posts.

    If my suggestion is a poor compromise then I am at a loss as to how the rep system can better serve us. I agree the system is flawed, if we are at a loss as to how to fix it then there is no easy answer and we ought to accept it for what it is and not expect the admins to fare any better with this quandary.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    what purpose is that?

    trolls will have very little rep....noobs who inevitably say something stoopid cannot be blasted into oblivion....positive contributors will continue to gain rep....

    I'm trying to find a real reason why neg repping is in any way shape or form necessary....because to date it is primarily used to snipe/insult/bully other users (whether deserved or not).
    i tend to agree with that...

    the only problem that rivalled the fact that we got our reps slashed, was the discovery of who neg repped us (in most cases it just confirmed the suspicion).

    absence of ability to neg rep will reduce the amount of butthurt significantly.

    as CHUM pointed out - those that are jerking around will forever stay at low rep - which is the same as neg rep in the grand scheme of things...



    kill neg rep...
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  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    what purpose is that?

    trolls will have very little rep....noobs who inevitably say something stoopid cannot be blasted into oblivion....positive contributors will continue to gain rep....

    I'm trying to find a real reason why neg repping is in any way shape or form necessary....because to date it is primarily used to snipe/insult/bully other users (whether deserved or not).



    When used properly it marks those that should be avoided. In the larger scheme of things it is probably too much to ask that it be used properly so you may as well jettison neg reps and just let everyone flame away at each other like the old days.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I agree with this. If I am completely wrong or way out of line I should get a neg. rep or told hey you're breaking a norm.
    yes...'a' neg rep. Not hundreds of points deducted because you said something dumb.

    If there are a group of members here actively organized to neg rep (or pos rep) other members into oblivion we have a problem....

    it is a gang mentality used to bully others...and it is 100% unacceptable.

    What if an Admin decided they didn't like 1 of your posts and knocked you back into 4 red chiclets in a matter of moments?...

    or if I didn't like the way you disagreed with me and permabanned you for chits and giggles....

    it would be intimidating if Admins/Mods acted that way right? That's why we don't act that way...we're not bullies.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by az.mtns View Post
    we just want our ten reps a day returned. The tactic has backfired, instead of us giving out reps in the community at large we are hoarding our five a day. This is counter to what the admin was trying to accomplish no? Heck, the low rep guys will never have a chance of catching up unless the high rep guys help. Please consider restoring us to ten a day, the doubling the required points has slowed things to a crawl which i believe was the intent. Win/win. Respectfully, az.
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  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    it would be intimidating if Admins/Mods acted that way right? That's why we don't act that way...we're not bullies.
    Maybe not you, but there were others...

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    yes...'a' neg rep. Not hundreds of points deducted because you said something dumb.

    If there are a group of members here actively organized to neg rep (or pos rep) other members into oblivion we have a problem....

    it is a gang mentality used to bully others...and it is 100% unacceptable.

    What if an Admin decided they didn't like 1 of your posts and knocked you back into 4 red chiclets in a matter of moments?...

    or if I didn't like the way you disagreed with me and permabanned you for chits and giggles....

    it would be intimidating if Admins/Mods acted that way right? That's why we don't act that way...we're not bullies.
    i also think that with neg reps having the name attached, the amount of neg repping will diminish, except for those with lots of rep - who have the muscle to withstand a neg rep here and there... also - neg reps cause retaliatory neg reps - for no reason. just a retaliation.

    the best will raise to the top either way... neg rep is just a butt hurt...

    with regards to high rep members being bullies - we feel that we are not - as much as you feel that you are not. some of the high rep member spend more time around here and probably know the fabrics of the site better than some mods. i think that the influence of these members can not be ignored. i would even venture to say that these members can make mods' and admins' jobs easier... most of high rep members are aware of their responsibilities when it comes to using their rep power... so some mutual respect is in order - i think...

    i would not call mods and admins bullies - i agree... i just can't wrap my head around Hutch's case... i must say that this particular move greatly affected the stature of those involved. negatively.

    just my opinion of course...
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    This is just an idea-

    Modify the rep system so users rep the post rather than the user as has been suggested before and instituted elsewhere and generate user rep scores based on the votes your posts receive.

    Not perfect but it would seem to garner more rep based upon the quality of posts and eliminate the intimidation factor for noobs wishing to avoid being moderated by fellow users having higher rep scores than others.
    I've been lurking on MTBR for a very long time, certainly before the whole rep system was ever put in place. I was stunned to discover a couple of years ago (because I got embroiled in one of the many Front Range trail building trainwreck threads) that not only did rep exist here, but it was anonymous to boot.

    They've had rep at RBR for probably the same amount of time, but at no point (at least in my recollection) was it EVER anon. Thus, you see most users at RBR using rep exactly as Jon Richard described ^^ - to give kudos to noteworthy posts, and neg reps are typically only handed out to the most egregious offenders.

    That's not to say RBR is a shining example of an internet forum, either. they've got their own issues but rep is not one of them.

    I'm also a member of reddit and MetaFilter - reddit famously uses the "karma" (upvote/downvote) system, where MeFi strictly uses "favorites" (meaning you cannot neg rep anyone, you can merely favorite their contributions if you find them worthwhile). The signal to noise ratio on MeFi is considerably greater and it's a lot easier to find good content. So sure I go to reddit for some lolz and funny cat pics, but I don't stick around much - the whole pileon/flamewar/bullying mentality of the userbase there is exactly what CHUM is talking about (I won't get into the perils of being openly female on reddit; it's not something I'd expect the average MTBR user to understand either).

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    yes...'a' neg rep. Not hundreds of points deducted because you said something dumb.

    If there are a group of members here actively organized to neg rep (or pos rep) other members into oblivion we have a problem....

    it is a gang mentality used to bully others...and it is 100% unacceptable.

    What if an Admin decided they didn't like 1 of your posts and knocked you back into 4 red chiclets in a matter of moments?...

    or if I didn't like the way you disagreed with me and permabanned you for chits and giggles....

    it would be intimidating if Admins/Mods acted that way right? That's why we don't act that way...we're not bullies.



    A rather large, loosely organized group of members had that very opportunity recently and opted rather for the proverbial troll beat down. I'm sure there were one or two reds handed out but by and large the whole thing was done with an extraordinary amount of restraint imho.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    When used properly it marks those that should be avoided. In the larger scheme of things it is probably too much to ask that it be used properly so you may as well jettison neg reps and just let everyone flame away at each other like the old days.
    I agree with AZ here. Neg reps are just a valuable as Pos reps. I have recieved a few Neg reps since the system started that I truly deserved. I viewed the Neg and thought,.. hmm... yup, I was being a dick. And to tell you the truth, the Neg reps keep me in line. Kind of like a good ol' spanking from pops when doing something stupid.

    As for the random Negs, calling me names or insulting my mother with no warrant, they do not bother me either.. I kind of chuckle when I see one and think "well, at least I am not much of a dick". haha. It is the internets after all... thick skin is often required. If you get all butt hurt over a dissagreement on the internet, then you should look in the mirror and realize that it is ONLY the internets and re-evaluate your priorities...

    Lastly, I do like the fact that the reps are no longer anonymous. A neg rep sent to me about something I did is much better than a flame war cluttering up a thread, IMO.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  40. #140
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    Well cool, we have some dialog, working out some solutions (fingers crossed). Kudos to CHUM for reaching out and asking the pertinent questions and to those that have constructive input. And they say the O.C. isn't reasonable.

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  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    Was there a case of a new person receiving several negative reps from high powered members from a single post? Because that is what you are suggesting. I don't think that that happened.

    I'm pretty sure that it took sustained idiocy to get beyond a single red chicklet. Again, if you are being a moron, get red, and continue to be a moron, why should you NOT receive repeated negs? I kind of thought that was the point.



    Tone's got repped back to the Stone Age when he first started, it doesn't take but a few to put someone 400 points in the red, especially before the reset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I personally believe that off topic forums like Off Camber should be exempt from post counts and reps. That way, only posts that actually contribute to primary content of the forum affect users reputation on the forum.
    One other forum I am a member of uses post counts to build a member rating system. Too many members simply padded their post counts in the Off Topic forum and never posted any quality content in the other forums. The admins stopped counting Off Topic posts and the boards overall quality improved greatly.
    Off Camber is a place of fun, games and entertainment. You will never hear me say get rid of it. But if posts in Off Camber were not rep-able, the whole forum would be better for it, IMHO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So you are saying all those videos in Ambassadorhawg's thread in the OC should not be rep'able? then why go through all the trouble to take,shoot, edit, upload, host and embed all those great places we ride?

    Guess we all need to step back and let this shYtstorm blow over, once the riding season starts again for the rest of the country.

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  46. #146
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    I don't care to read this thread as its really not that interesting . . . so if this has been said in this thread, sorry about that. But I KNOW I have said this elsewhere.

    If you want the rep system to reflect contributions made to the MTBR community for MTB topics, its quite simple . . . all you have to do is DISABLE REP IN THE OC FORUM. DONE. PROBLEM SOLVED. If the point of the system is to measure contributions to the community, then WHY do posts UNRELATED TO MTBing count towards that rep?

    Why this is so hard to figure out, I'll never know . . . .

    Edit: Brewtality made the same suggestion. Smart guy he is . . .
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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy View Post
    So you are saying all those videos in Ambassadorhawg's thread in the OC should not be rep'able? then why go through all the trouble to take,shoot, edit, upload, host and embed all those great places we ride?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    Well, don't forget, those posts technically should not be in the OC. Know what I mean? They're sposta be in Passion or General or a geographical forum.
    This.
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  48. #148
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    You know we are being played? You can bet the superiors are loving this latest dust up. This is a business that depends on activity. When this dust settles another issue will be manufactured. Just plan a no mtbr week to send a message. I know I've posted more lately that ever before. You can be sure the superiors are knee slapping when reading these posts, thinking what a bunch of patsy's we are.

    I'll say it again. Rep is just like gang colors and brings on some of the same negs. If one can't say it in the open, one should save their breath. Just like cackling hens talking behind others back. Lets man up and be adults.
    lean forward

  49. #149
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    Chum, thank you again for taking your time to engage with us.

    Here would be some recommendations I would have for the system.

    1. Simply do away with rep when the new software is installed. Just wrap it all up in one major change and the rep battle will get lost in the shuffle.

    2. Recognize that we don't all have to agree and get along. I've learned over the year there are some places here are simply no fun to visit. I don't go there. I realize that there are threads in OC that I don't like. So what, I can skip them. Why some people can't find this peace is beyond me. Perhaps this is at the heart of your "Taco" thread. What an individual user's preconceived notation of what a forums, thread, or post should be about shouldn't matter provided the said topic is within rules. If not, purge it. We can't also endorse people that constantly to to mold this forum to their use either.

    3. Deal transparently with disgruntled people. If people have an issue with how someone is doing something and they "cry" to a mod, inform the person that they should send the offending person a PM instead of rewarding the whining. I realize not everyone here is an "adult", but honestly, some basic communication skills would go along way for many of the users. Text typed into an internet forum is cold and can easily be misunderstood. Even within Off Camber we have had some tension, but it gets resolved with communication.

    4. You have raised concerns regarding gang repping some users. I whole heartily share your concern. To be honest, I suspect the vast majority of people here do too. You have the data on this and could deal with this concern off line if it were a serial offense. That said, there are "thread pirates" sitting in all of the forums. Some demonstrate an uncanny desire to try to own every conversation on a particular topic. This is just as bad in my opinion as it more visibly drives people away.

    5. Enlist help when needed. I remember you doing this when the golfers stopped by on the turn. Some were negged deep into the hole. I think they found quite a bit of humor about this, but nonetheless, you gave a quick post to say give them a chance. A simple redirect like this goes pretty far. Having said this, perhaps that is something we should all try more to do. I think we do that privately through positive reps back (at least I do), but maybe the more visible "give the person a chance" message is better off more prominently placed in the forum.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    Chum, thank you again for taking your time to engage with us.

    Here would be some recommendations I would have for the system.

    1. Simply do away with rep when the new software is installed. Just wrap it all up in one major change and the rep battle will get lost in the shuffle.

    2. Recognize that we don't all have to agree and get along. I've learned over the year there are some places here are simply no fun to visit. I don't go there. I realize that there are threads in OC that I don't like. So what, I can skip them. Why some people can't find this peace is beyond me. Perhaps this is at the heart of your "Taco" thread. What an individual user's preconceived notation of what a forums, thread, or post should be about shouldn't matter provided the said topic is within rules. If not, purge it. We can't also endorse people that constantly to to mold this forum to their use either.

    3. Deal transparently with disgruntled people. If people have an issue with how someone is doing something and they "cry" to a mod, inform the person that they should send the offending person a PM instead of rewarding the whining. I realize not everyone here is an "adult", but honestly, some basic communication skills would go along way for many of the users. Text typed into an internet forum is cold and can easily be misunderstood. Even within Off Camber we have had some tension, but it gets resolved with communication.

    4. You have raised concerns regarding gang repping some users. I whole heartily share your concern. To be honest, I suspect the vast majority of people here do too. You have the data on this and could deal with this concern off line if it were a serial offense. That said, there are "thread pirates" sitting in all of the forums. Some demonstrate an uncanny desire to try to own every conversation on a particular topic. This is just as bad in my opinion as it more visibly drives people away.

    5. Enlist help when needed. I remember you doing this when the golfers stopped by on the turn. Some were negged deep into the hole. I think they found quite a bit of humor about this, but nonetheless, you gave a quick post to say give them a chance. A simple redirect like this goes pretty far. Having said this, perhaps that is something we should all try more to do. I think we do that privately through positive reps back (at least I do), but maybe the more visible "give the person a chance" message is better off more prominently placed in the forum.
    That was the levelheaded version.


    Magura

  51. #151
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    Chum: My disappointment comes from the fact that rules and policies were established. A group of people followed the rules. Then the rules changed specifically in response to the outcome of the rule abiding members following the rules.

    A lot of people invested a lot of time to accomplish something. When the value of the effort was not recognized and was taken away, it made people upset.

    It's kind of like this: A group of us are playing Monopoly and the point of the game is to get as much money as possible. Then, as soon as someone gets a lot of money, someone comes along and takes half of their money because that person had too much money.

    I can't give advice on how to fix this because I don't know what the stakeholders want beyond my observations. But, from what I can see, some want the rep system to go away and others want to revert back to the way things were. Making any other arbitrary change is just going to make things worse.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Chum: My disappointment comes from the fact that rules and policies were established. A group of people followed the rules. Then the rules changed specifically in response to the outcome of the rule abiding members following the rules.

    A lot of people invested a lot of time to accomplish something. When the value of the effort was not recognized and was taken away, it made people upset.

    It's kind of like this: A group of us are playing Monopoly and the point of the game is to get as much money as possible. Then, as soon as someone gets a lot of money, someone comes along and takes half of their money because that person had too much money.

    I can't give advice on how to fix this because I don't know what the stakeholders want beyond my observations. But, from what I can see, some want the rep system to go away and others want to revert back to the way things were. Making any other arbitrary change is just going to make things worse.
    From MTBR rules:
    do not attempt to abuse our site by making this a place for your own personal campaign against other forum members, manufacturers, or retailers nor as your own personal soapbox
    The minute several of y'all got together to gang up on another member, or thread for the sole purpose of pushing it around via neg(or pos) rep you crossed the line.

    Several of y'all strayed further by planning, and trying to execute disruptions in MTBR's forums...so far only a few members have caught a time-out.

    Yet, It still continues...

    do you 'get it' now?
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  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Chum: My disappointment comes from the fact that rules and policies were established. A group of people followed the rules. Then the rules changed specifically in response to the outcome of the rule abiding members following the rules.

    A lot of people invested a lot of time to accomplish something. When the value of the effort was not recognized and was taken away, it made people upset.

    It's kind of like this: A group of us are playing Monopoly and the point of the game is to get as much money as possible. Then, as soon as someone gets a lot of money, someone comes along and takes half of their money because that person had too much money.

    I can't give advice on how to fix this because I don't know what the stakeholders want beyond my observations. But, from what I can see, some want the rep system to go away and others want to revert back to the way things were. Making any other arbitrary change is just going to make things worse.

    You described redistribution of wealth to a tee...
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  54. #154
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    Lets give this a break for a couple of days to see what kind of ideas move forward shall we?

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    ^ Will do - AFTER I share the precursor to the above from MTBR RULES:

    "In the sharing of ideas, opinions, and experiences we hope to provide an open atmosphere where all parties can feel free to share their stories. While debates and differing opinions are all part of interfacing with many others, constant and continuous badgering and flaming of others will not be tolerated, and will be dealt with at the management's discretion. Users are free to share experiences, whether good or bad, positive or negative."
    ------
    When a user repeatedly derails threads, abuses others, does not take direct input, and continues to be difficult, a self-policing solution now exists, and it glows red. Without it all would be green, and nobody could easily detect a troll, a spammer, or an unreasonable priick.

    -done.

  56. #156
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    Another idea for the powers that be.
    How bout binning some threads straight away. I get it may be off camber, and I'm all about having some fun, and the strange and interesting topics have their place here now with oc, but "erotic experiences with aliens animals and household objects"? shouldn't that be crossing the line on a mtb site? Is there even a line here anymore, or is the rule just don't piss off the mods.
    BTW I'm no prude, so go have your jollies however you like, but there's sites for that sorta stuff, shouldn't be on mtbr imo
    Last edited by theMeat; 01-08-2013 at 07:04 PM.
    Round and round we go

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Another idea for the powers that be.
    How bout binning some posts straight away. I get it may be off camber, and I'm all about having some fun, and the strange and interesting topics have their place here now with oc, but "erotic experiences with aliens animals and household objects"? shouldn't that be crossing the line on a mtb site? Is there even a line here anymore, or is the rule just don't piss off the mods.
    BTW I'm no prude, so go have your jollies however you like, but there's sites for that sorta stuff, shouldn't be on mtbr imo
    Hey now, let's not be hasty.

    In fact, in support of mtbr and its advertisers in an effort to generate more traffic I was gearing up to start an OC thread about chubby chasers ogling the Zulily model

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Hey now, let's not be hasty.

    In fact, in support of mtbr and its advertisers in an effort to generate more traffic I was gearing up to start an OC thread about chubby chasers ogling the Zulily model
    Oh, Well, if we're talking BBW's then I'm in, lol, what's with most girls wanting to be these skinny little wafers with no curves.
    Round and round we go

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    From MTBR rules:

    do not attempt to abuse our site by making this a place for your own personal campaign against other forum members, manufacturers, or retailers nor as your own personal soapbox
    The minute several of y'all got together to gang up on another member, or thread for the sole purpose of pushing it around via neg(or pos) rep you crossed the line.

    Several of y'all strayed further by planning, and trying to execute disruptions in MTBR's forums...so far only a few members have caught a time-out.

    Yet, It still continues...

    do you 'get it' now?
    Whoa... Let me get this straight... If I see anyone:

    A) Campaigning against other forum members
    B) Campaigning against manufacturers
    C) Campaigning against retailers
    D) Using MTBR as their own personal soapbox

    I can then report the offense to the admins and I should expect the exact level of response as was taken against the rep system? Correct?

    Just listing the offenses out like that is laughable. I can think of several examples of each and I know if I would have reported them nothing would have been done.

    Consistency in applying punishment to those rules would go a long way towards the site's credibility.
    Last edited by marpilli; 01-08-2013 at 06:58 PM.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    From MTBR rules:


    The minute several of y'all got together to gang up on another member, or thread for the sole purpose of pushing it around via neg(or pos) rep you crossed the line.

    Several of y'all strayed further by planning, and trying to execute disruptions in MTBR's forums...so far only a few members have caught a time-out.

    Yet, It still continues...

    do you 'get it' now?
    I guess I'm just not understanding what line was crossed. I don't think anyone has participated in a sustained campaign to harass or force anyone to leave. Attention is sometimes drawn to a particular thread, or a situation, where someone is being inflammatory and some people, as individuals, decided to neg rep that individual.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    When used properly it marks those that should be avoided. In the larger scheme of things it is probably too much to ask that it be used properly so you may as well jettison neg reps and just let everyone flame away at each other like the old days.
    I agree with this.

    I think maybe the drama of having the odd few being negged into a couple of reds might be being overplayed a bit.
    This does not happen to many, and the ones that it does happen to would probably go on to contribute negativly to the forums anyway, its not worth changing things for this small group.

    Maybe just as has been done before if mods see a new member that has been heavily negged they could have a quick look at his post history and see if he is contributing in a positive manner and adjust his rep accordingly, its been done before and i think this is the answer.

    And how bout a limit on how much a guy can be negged, how bout once he is negged negative 2 red squares, thats it nothing counts past that.

    I think neg repping is a valuable part of the forum, it is a leveller and its not a bad thing.
    Now that anonymous rep is gone it has changed rep over night, in a good way.

    Im no saint, i had sent the odd un signed rep before, but now everybody has to be accountable, ive gone from getting negs every day to hardly getting any at all, its stopped the trolls neg repping, so imo more than half the war is won already.

    No system is perfect, but nothing should have wholesale change for the sake of a few guys getting negged, that doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

    Once again i applaud Chum for caring enough to engage in this conversation with all of us, it says a lot about him as a person and a mod, so thanks for that Chum, and thanks for the action taken for one previous poster in this thread, i can guarentee that there will be no protest from anybody on this site for that, cheers n thanks
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Tone's got repped back to the Stone Age when he first started, it doesn't take but a few to put someone 400 points in the red, especially before the reset.
    And you know what, it didnt do me any harm, i copped it on the chin, it let me know the vibe of the place, let me know that silliness would not be tolerated, and look at me now, no more silliness or shanannigans from me, im an upstanding, serious member of the forum now
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  63. #163
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    Last edited by Bill in Houston; 01-09-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    And you know what, it didnt do me any harm, i copped it on the chin, it let me know the vibe of the place, let me know that silliness would not be tolerated, and look at me now, no more silliness or shanannigans from me, im an upstanding, serious member of the forum now
    I don't often LOL but when I do I prefer Tone's.
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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lets give this a break for a couple of days to see what kind of ideas move forward shall we?
    ^this
    its just the intertubez. ride a bike, diddle your woman, make a nice meal. Everyone have a great day!

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lets give this a break for a couple of days to see what kind of ideas move forward shall we?
    Yes, i tend to agree with this AZ, i think Chum might be a bit overloaded with all of this, time to let it all sink in and im sure he will do the best he can to convey our thoughts to the right people, cheers n thanks Chum.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Whoa... Let me get this straight... If I see anyone:

    A) Campaigning against other forum members
    B) Campaigning against manufacturers
    C) Campaigning against retailers
    D) Using MTBR as their own personal soapbox

    I can then report the offense to the admins and I should expect the exact level of response as was taken against the rep system? Correct?

    Just listing the offenses out like that is laughable. I can think of several examples of each and I know if I would have reported them nothing would have been done.

    Consistency in applying punishment to those rules would go a long way towards the site's credibility.
    Marp - when I outlined that an organized campaign to disrupt MTBR's forums was not a good idea I was not kidding.

    here are some recent quotes...names withheld, and there are many many more....

    "I was handing out 5 reps to the OC'ers and then 5 to the 'outsiders' on my list. Now I'm just handing them out to the OC'ers for the time being. Until they stop me, I'll give them out every day."
    "I think that this subverts their plan for rep parity therefore I like it. we were handing it out everywhere before the lock down. Confine the reps to the OC. Now we just have to get enough people into the OC to make it viable. "
    " i'm going to go follow all of y'all.
    i'll go back to the other place to spend my reps, but i'm not going to post."
    "do you have any suggestions on how to further subvert the system without us causing to much consternation"
    "This does not surprise me, we should mount a hostile take over of the 29er forum. That place is a cesspool"
    "But if 20 people negged him for the same post in a one hour period, that would be kind of amazing."
    "this seems to be a good one to hijack..."
    "Find some really (really) old thread in General Discussion to bump up and start chatting in."
    "if we really want to bug him, we should raid his sticky thread"
    "Yes! We have to exercise our influence to give the bums rush to a couple of tools that think they got **** figured out"
    "That would have to be done quite discretely, [name withheld] is hooked up pretty good with the admin"
    "And thanks to all participants of the [name withheld] troll beat down"
    "Did that thread bombardment really work? hahah "
    "Good job carpet bombing the OC and summoning old souls back to the bright side!"
    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
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  68. #168
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    Chum, you changed the rep system?

    That first quote is mine. I still stand by it.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I personally believe that off topic forums like Off Camber should be exempt from post counts and reps. That way, only posts that actually contribute to primary content of the forum affect users reputation on the forum.
    One other forum I am a member of uses post counts to build a member rating system. Too many members simply padded their post counts in the Off Topic forum and never posted any quality content in the other forums. The admins stopped counting Off Topic posts and the boards overall quality improved greatly.
    Off Camber is a place of fun, games and entertainment. You will never hear me say get rid of it. But if posts in Off Camber were not rep-able, the whole forum would be better for it, IMHO.
    I respect your statement here because it does make a point. But what if I had never ridden a mountain bike before, yet I had a great following on MTBR, never posting negative remarks, always respecting others, always supporting the thoughts and ideas of other members here....would I not deserve to have possibly higher rep power than anyone else on the boards?

    Would I really have to be a top level bicycle know-it-all, experienced-it-all to be a top rep power holder on MTBR, IYHO?

    The only thing I can say here is this, and it applies to everything....

    The only thing that is perfect in life is imperfection

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    Marp - when I outlined that an organized campaign to disrupt MTBR's forums was not a good idea I was not kidding.

    here are some recent quotes...names withheld, and there are many many more....


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Whoa... Let me get this straight... If I see anyone:

    A) Campaigning against other forum members
    B) Campaigning against manufacturers
    C) Campaigning against retailers
    D) Using MTBR as their own personal soapbox

    I can then report the offense to the admins and I should expect the exact level of response as was taken against the rep system? Correct?

    Just listing the offenses out like that is laughable. I can think of several examples of each and I know if I would have reported them nothing would have been done.

    Consistency in applying punishment to those rules would go a long way towards the site's credibility.
    Marp - when I outlined that an organized campaign to disrupt MTBR's forums was not a good idea I was not kidding.

    here are some recent quotes...names withheld, and there are many many more....

    Quote:
    "I was handing out 5 reps to the OC'ers and then 5 to the 'outsiders' on my list. Now I'm just handing them out to the OC'ers for the time being. Until they stop me, I'll give them out every day."
    Quote:
    "I think that this subverts their plan for rep parity therefore I like it. we were handing it out everywhere before the lock down. Confine the reps to the OC. Now we just have to get enough people into the OC to make it viable. "
    Quote:
    " i'm going to go follow all of y'all.
    Quote:
    i'll go back to the other place to spend my reps, but i'm not going to post."
    Quote:
    "do you have any suggestions on how to further subvert the system without us causing to much consternation"
    Quote:
    "This does not surprise me, we should mount a hostile take over of the 29er forum. That place is a cesspool"
    Quote:
    "But if 20 people negged him for the same post in a one hour period, that would be kind of amazing."
    Quote:
    "this seems to be a good one to hijack..."
    Quote:
    "Find some really (really) old thread in General Discussion to bump up and start chatting in."
    Quote:
    "if we really want to bug him, we should raid his sticky thread"
    Quote:
    "Yes! We have to exercise our influence to give the bums rush to a couple of tools that think they got **** figured out"
    Quote:
    "That would have to be done quite discretely, [name withheld] is hooked up pretty good with the admin"
    Quote:
    "And thanks to all participants of the [name withheld] troll beat down"
    Quote:
    "Did that thread bombardment really work? hahah "
    Quote:
    "Good job carpet bombing the OC and summoning old souls back to the bright side!"
    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
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    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
    Awesome. 25 or so clipped phrases quoted without providing any context. You might as well be an Ugg spammer. Meh, whatever, this thread's lame.
    Last edited by wbmason55; 01-08-2013 at 09:22 PM.

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Chum, you changed the rep system?...
    nope.

    what does that have to do with anything?

    mounting a campaign to a) hassle members and b) to disrupt these forums leads to perma-ban.

    tenure/post count does not matter.

    We are trying to work with you guys....yet you still are fighting....over rep

    [/facepalm]
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  72. #172
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    CHUM, I didn't intend my previous post to be a personal attack against you. I apologize if it came across that way. I consider you one of the good guys.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't believe you had input into the changes to the rep system. And, I don't believe you were the one who banned Hutch. Why you continue to try and herd the cats for free is beyond me. It's a job I would never volunteer for.

    I think others have created a situation and you are (valiantly) trying to keep things in order after the fact.

    I just think it's a real shame that the site owners and admins don't solicit opinions of the users. And, the changes to the rep system appear to be ripe with cronyism. This leads me to conclude they don't care about our opinions.

    Others want to let this sit and see what the admins do. I'm willing to bet they do nothing...

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    nope.

    what does that have to do with anything?

    mounting a campaign to a) hassle members and b) to disrupt these forums leads to perma-ban.

    tenure/post count does not matter.

    We are trying to work with you guys....yet you still are fighting....over rep

    [/facepalm]
    Try this: HTFU

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    CHUM, I didn't intend my previous post to be a personal attack against you. I apologize if it came across that way. I consider you one of the good guys.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't believe you had input into the changes to the rep system. And, I don't believe you were the one who banned Hutch. Why you continue to try and herd the cats for free is beyond me. It's a job I would never volunteer for.

    I think others have created a situation and you are (valiantly) trying to keep things in order after the fact.

    I just think it's a real shame that the site owners and admins don't solicit opinions of the users. And, the changes to the rep system appear to be ripe with cronyism. This leads me to conclude they don't care about our opinions.

    Others want to let this sit and see what the admins do. I'm willing to bet they do nothing...



    The site owners have taken our suggestions under consideration, now we need to let this be. I predict perma bans if this continues. Take that for whatever you think it is worth.

  75. #175
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  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The site owners have taken our suggestions under consideration, now we need to let this be. I predict perma bans if this continues. Take that for whatever you think it is worth.
    Listen to this man, just let everything marinade for awhile, let things slow down, await the return of Hutch and just stop worrying.
    Try this: HTFU

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    So...if you were in my shoes what would you do?
    CHUM, give the Upper Admins an ultimatum....

    Say this:

    "Dismantle and discontinue using the rep system or I will resign from my position and disassociate myself from MTBR. Clearly, it is causing irritation felt equally across the board. Take away the possession, and the possessive personality is minimized or it disappears all together. While we cannot remove all of the pressure, we can minimize most of it."

    Otherwise CHUM, this is only going to get worse. Isn't that obvious? You enjoying this BS? I really doubt it... I'm sure not.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    CHUM, give the Upper Admins an ultimatum....

    Say this:

    "Dismantle and discontinue using the rep system or I will resign from my position and disassociate myself from MTBR. Clearly, it is causing irritation felt equally across the board. Take away the possession, and the possessive personality is minimized or it disappears all together. While we cannot remove all of the pressure, we can minimize most of it."

    Otherwise CHUM, this is only going to get worse. Isn't that obvious? You enjoying this BS? I really doubt it... I'm sure not.



    Uhmmm don't believe we hold a bargaining position. Just sayin.

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    CHUM, give the Upper Admins an ultimatum....

    Say this:

    "Dismantle and discontinue using the rep system or I will resign from my position and disassociate myself from MTBR. Clearly, it is causing irritation felt equally across the board. Take away the possession, and the possessive personality is minimized or it disappears all together. While we cannot remove all of the pressure, we can minimize most of it."

    Otherwise CHUM, this is only going to get worse. Isn't that obvious? You enjoying this BS? I really doubt it... I'm sure not.

    While I agree with this, the only place it is really causing any irritation is in this thread and with the super's (and me) who have to deal with it. The rest of MTBR goes on not really caring. That is the point.

    It isn't that big of a deal to any but a minority. Bumped threads were responded to by members in forums and they didn't notice they were from 2004. Others responded in kind and some mentioned something about zombie threads but then others commented once again. No one really cared. No one reported it.

    This is strictly an OC issue. If rep goes away, a large percentage of the users wouldn't care, heck they wouldn't even notice it. Many users have never tried to post in the OC as they are still figuring out their bikes, rides, trails, etc.

    Spammers will still spam, trolls will still troll. This isn't that big, nor is it as big as other issues in the past, which came and went with dramatic admonitions and MTBR is still here, forums keep on and people on a whole come and get a lot of valuable insight into bikes, gear and trails.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion. MTBR wouldn't die without CHUM as a moderator nor me or even shiggy. It wouldn't die without the OC forum, heck it didn't die without the POSER forum which was prophesied by the proponents of that forum.
    Try this: HTFU

  80. #180
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    I really don't see why all of you are throwing fits in here over changes to rep and whatnot.

    Drama!

    Meh. That is what I say. If rep is left here, whatever. If it gets more fundamental changes, whatever. If those changes piss some people off who throw more fits and get themselves banned, whatever. If nothing changes, whatever.

    I will still ride my bikes and I will still want to talk about bikes. I can goof off in other places if this one goes away. It really doesn't matter to me. I am getting annoyed coming into OC and seeing a bunch of whining.

    You likely won't see me posting in here much until the whining gets replaced by more fun threads.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    While I agree with this, the only place it is really causing any irritation is in this thread and with the super's (and me) who have to deal with it. The rest of MTBR goes on not really caring. That is the point.

    This is strictly an OC issue. If rep goes away, a large percentage of the users wouldn't care, heck they wouldn't even notice it.
    Good words, but listen to them. If the rest of the site isn't going to care one way or the other, I take that as a "why have it at all, then?", and if it's the OCers who have the biggest problem with it, all the more reason to drop it all together.

    You've clearly spelled it out in your own words. Now, get the powers that be to see the light. Push them, and push them hard.

    I've said my peace, now I will bow out and let you get back to your business. Thank you for listening, thank you for all that you guys do here. It is appreciated.

  82. #182
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    Some of you guys really take this forum stuff too seriously. Listening to some of you is akin to hearing a shareholders meeting to discuss a failing company.

    It's super simple to understand. I rarely post in the OC, but when I have lurked, it was obvious that some of you were trying to manipulate rep power towards certain people as like a "private club" or something. Hope I'm not pissing anyone off. I contribute often here in Tooltime, the 29er forum, wheels, beginners, etc. When I do lurk over here it almost seems like a seperate place altogether. Can be a little bit off-putting or even intimidating to a newb I suspect.
    Come out from your Off Camber compound and share some of your mountain biking knowledge with members in other forums.

  83. #183
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    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The site owners have taken our suggestions under consideration, now we need to let this be. I predict perma bans if this continues. Take that for whatever you think it is worth.
    eventually it is going to come down to exactly this...

    what is going to change for the better if we lose CHUM as mod. we may get another mod who will not lend us an ear and will follow the rules to the dot. that'd mean a lot of involuntary vacations and lead to much worse compared to what we have now..

    owners will do whatever they feel fit. CHUM can not do much, except offer us his view on the situation. he does not have to pass our concerns to owners - they can read it themselves.

    why are CHUM or rock doing this for free? because they have fun doing it and are trying to make this site as best as possible... as rock pointed out - this site will exist without anyone in this thread... that is a true story... let's be thankful to our two mods for lending us their ears and not swinging the hatchet....

    let's let it be as AZ suggested but i will pose a question to OC gang...

    if you were given two options:

    1. 10 reps - but no neg rep ability
    2. 5 reps total including neg reps

    what would you choose?
    Last edited by osokolo; 01-08-2013 at 10:40 PM.
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  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    While I agree with this, the only place it is really causing any irritation is in this thread and with the super's (and me) who have to deal with it. The rest of MTBR goes on not really caring. That is the point.

    It isn't that big of a deal to any but a minority. Bumped threads were responded to by members in forums and they didn't notice they were from 2004. Others responded in kind and some mentioned something about zombie threads but then others commented once again. No one really cared. No one reported it.

    This is strictly an OC issue. If rep goes away, a large percentage of the users wouldn't care, heck they wouldn't even notice it. Many users have never tried to post in the OC as they are still figuring out their bikes, rides, trails, etc.

    Spammers will still spam, trolls will still troll. This isn't that big, nor is it as big as other issues in the past, which came and went with dramatic admonitions and MTBR is still here, forums keep on and people on a whole come and get a lot of valuable insight into bikes, gear and trails.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion. MTBR wouldn't die without CHUM as a moderator nor me or even shiggy. It wouldn't die without the OC forum, heck it didn't die without the POSER forum which was prophesied by the proponents of that forum.

    There's a Poser forum... man this place is getting more and more embarrassing by the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    eventually it is going to come down to exactly this...

    what is going to change for the better if we lose CHUM as mod. we may get another mod who will not lend us an ear and will follow the rules to the dot. that'd mean a lot of involuntary vacations and lead to much worse compared to what we have now..

    owners will do whatever they feel fit. CHUM can not do much, except offer us his view on the situation. he does not have to pass our concerns to owners - they can read it themselves.

    why are CHUM or rock doing this for free? because they have fun doing it and are trying to make this site as best as possible... as rock pointed out - this site will exist without anyone in this thread... that is a true story... let's be thankful to our two mods for lending us their ears and not swinging the hatchet....

    let's let it be as AZ suggested but i will pose a question to Tone's and the rest of the gang...

    if you were given two options:

    1. 10 reps - but no neg rep ability
    2. 5 reps total including neg reps

    what would you choose?
    Why are you singling me out, ive stated twice we should take a breath and let this issue lie, and thats what i will be doing.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Why are you singling me out, ive stated twice we should take a breath and let this issue lie, and thats what i will be doing.
    i am not singling you out. i am sorry if it came across that way bro. you are just as passionate about this subject as anyone else - and you should know by now - i call you out for fun on more than few occasions. see - this situation affects how you read in this case my post... it is not negative bro.

    i don't want to lose this place. with or without rep - we are still the same fun people and that is the reason i am still around here. we had fun without rep. we had fun with rep. we can have fun with or without the rep - can we not. we are losing our sleep over things that are above our pay grade... whatever owners decide - we should still have fun...

    sure - things could have been done differently, with more transparency. but things were done and it is what it is. we can adjust to anything and keep having fun... don't really understand all the negative buzz all of a sudden, like we are around here ONLY to collect as much rep as we can. i love being repped for fun and/or informative posts. everyone does.

    but i love even more - having fun with all of you guys. with or without rep - let's not lose that...
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  88. #188
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    I have been advised by "_" that "locked [space][hyphen][space]time out" is a prohibited custom user title. Jesus H Christ this place is getting lame.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    Some of you guys really take this forum stuff too seriously. Listening to some of you is akin to hearing a shareholders meeting to discuss a failing company.

    It's super simple to understand. I rarely post in the OC, but when I have lurked, it was obvious that some of you were trying to manipulate rep power towards certain people as like a "private club" or something. Hope I'm not pissing anyone off. I contribute often here in Tooltime, the 29er forum, wheels, beginners, etc. When I do lurk over here it almost seems like a seperate place altogether. Can be a little bit off-putting or even intimidating to a newb I suspect.
    Come out from your Off Camber compound and share some of your mountain biking knowledge with members in other forums.
    We do share outside. I'm certainly no master mind in mountain biking, it's more of a tool to stay healthy, to get away from the rat race, and to enjoy the scenery. Knowing all there is to know about this activity doesn't make me a better human, IMO. Too serious for me. So, I'm far more likely to look for help than to offer it, but I give what I can when I can. Plus, there is at least one thread in here to share bike stuff when we want to, in a more relaxed atmosphere and you will not see any arguing about it, either. So, OC is the place to go to get away from all the seriousness and just goof off for some stress relief. In here, we share wit. Is that really such a bad thing?

    Anyway, peace out Brother!.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    if you were given two options:

    1. 10 reps - but no neg rep ability
    2. 5 reps total including neg reps

    what would you choose?
    Oso, the only correct answer for me would be:

    3. Discontinue the use of a "rep system" all together.

    Sorry, but that's how strongly I feel about it and I don't want to talk about it any more so I am going to unsubscribe to this thread....or just lurk. Don't want to fuel the fire any further.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    i am not singling you out. i am sorry if it came across that way bro. you are just as passionate about this subject as anyone else - and you should know by now - i call you out for fun on more than few occasions. see - this situation affects how you read in this case my post... it is not negative bro.

    i don't want to lose this place. with or without rep - we are still the same fun people and that is the reason i am still around here. we had fun without rep. we had fun with rep. we can have fun with or without the rep - can we not. we are losing our sleep over things that are above our pay grade... whatever owners decide - we should still have fun...

    sure - things could have been done differently, with more transparency. but things were done and it is what it is. we can adjust to anything and keep having fun... don't really understand all the negative buzz all of a sudden, like we are around here ONLY to collect as much rep as we can. i love being repped for fun and/or informative posts. everyone does.

    but i love even more - having fun with all of you guys. with or without rep - let's not lose that...
    Cheers Oso, I came here to start for the bikes, but its the great quality of people here that have kept me here, some say this is just a website, but its more than that for me and i would guess many others here.

    Its a community, a place to come and share ideas, exchange cultures, talk bikes, make friends in other parts of the world, share cheeky banter, and most importantly for me the ability to laugh and if im real lucky make somebody else laugh, if i can do that once a day its something that means a lot to me.

    So regardless of anything issues in this thread your right, its the things you and i have pointed out above that really mean something, those things will stay the same, this is a special community that we all contribute a lil something special too, and thats the most important thing, all the rest is unimportant in comparison to that.

    Cheers Oso, its all about the love, and ive got my eye on you,..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    Oso, the only correct answer for me would be:

    3. Discontinue the use of a "rep system" all together.

    Sorry, but that's how strongly I feel about it and I don't want to talk about it any more so I am going to unsubscribe to this thread....or just lurk. Don't want to fuel the fire any further.
    thanks 'hawg - i'd take anything - just to go back to fun OC times...
    i think i will follow your footprints - out of this thread... lurker status...
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  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    We do share outside. I'm certainly no master mind in mountain biking, it's more of a tool to stay healthy, to get away from the rat race, and to enjoy the scenery. Knowing all there is to know about this activity doesn't make me a better human, IMO. Too serious for me. So, I'm far more likely to look for help than to offer it, but I give what I can when I can. Plus, there is at least one thread in here to share bike stuff when we want to, in a more relaxed atmosphere and you will not see any arguing about it, either. So, OC is the place to go to get away from all the seriousness and just goof off for some stress relief. In here, we share wit. Is that really such a bad thing?

    Anyway, peace out Brother!.
    No hard feelings man, and I wasn't being specific about members. I checked this place out a bit a few months ago and there were several "Rep Spreading" threads. Thats all I meant. For a member who does most of their posting outside the lounge that is the OC, taking a visit here back then would probably seem like it was "cliqueish". Ya know? I sure in the hell don't want to get in an argument over fork travel with a guy that has 200 rep points......know what I mean? I'm certain that super high rep count members can be intimidating to some. Furthermore, I totally agree about being too serious or too technical all the time. Takes the fun out of our wonderful sport. I love mountain biking, I work in a shop, and I love this forum. I think I might hang around here a bit more and get a true feel for you guys.........Peace.

  94. #194
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    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Cheers Oso, I came here to start for the bikes, but its the great quality of people here that have kept me here, some say this is just a website, but its more than that for me and i would guess many others here.

    Its a community, a place to come and share ideas, exchange cultures, talk bikes, make friends in other parts of the world, share cheeky banter, and most importantly for me the ability to laugh and if im real lucky make somebody else laugh, if i can do that once a day its something that means a lot to me.

    So regardless of anything issues in this thread your right, its the things you and i have pointed out above that really mean something, those things will stay the same, this is a special community that we all contribute a lil something special too, and thats the most important thing, all the rest is unimportant in comparison to that.

    Cheers Oso, its all about the love, and ive got my eye on you,..
    i just said i'd get out of this thread - but feel i have to break my commitment just to thank you for a nice heartfelt post.

    that is what OC gang is about... WIN

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  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    i just said i'd get out of this thread - but feel i have to break my commitment just to thank you for a nice heartfelt post.

    that is what OC gang is about... WIN

    i haven't cried like this since Titanic

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post

    Cheers Oso, its all about the love, and ive got my eye on you,..
    Damn, does that mean I have to give you the Bigfoot costume back? Better see if I can get that protien stain out.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    Damn, does that mean I have to give you the Bigfoot costume back? Better see if I can get that protien stain out.
    Please Emu, im not ready to come out as a furry yet on MTBR, and nor should you be....
    Thats secret mens business...
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  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    A new user wouldn't have the same rep score as a vet, the weight of ones post would be backed by years of positive contributions reflected in a score accumulated by many good posts.

    If my suggestion is a poor compromise then I am at a loss as to how the rep system can better serve us. I agree the system is flawed, if we are at a loss as to how to fix it then there is no easy answer and we ought to accept it for what it is and not expect the admins to fare any better with this quandary.
    I misinterpreted your idea. I see what you are saying now, but everyone would have the same positive rep power if they supported a post. A users rep would be the total of what was received, but there would still be people "hoarding" rep and rep threads. This idea, to me, is very similar to just not having neg rep. AZ, I, and a new member would just have the "same" power if we liked a post, but all of our rep scores would vary.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I misinterpreted your idea. I see what you are saying now, but everyone would have the same positive rep power if they supported a post. A users rep would be the total of what was received, but there would still be people "hoarding" rep and rep threads. This idea, to me, is very similar to just not having neg rep. AZ, I, and a new member would just have the "same" power if we liked a post, but all of our rep scores would vary.
    That's correct and I admit far from perfect, yet acompromise. Repeated reps within groups would occur but rep scores would cease to grow exponentially, which seems to be the concern that inspired the recent changes. Neg rep would better be utilized as a filtering tool and pos rep would serve to make quality posts quickly identifiable.

    Really I don't have a strong opinion about what to do, I am just trying to be constructive and show how difficult it is to appease the masses while doing so. If any changes are to be considered I just want whatever will make it easier to get to the good stuff and have more of it.

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