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  1. #1
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    No good Froome. Doping or clean?

    Froome: I?m Not Cheating, End Of Story - BikeRadar


    Been a rather interesting Tour so far. I want to believe that he is clean but he has like 4 minutes lead on everyone else.

    Do you think he is doping?

  2. #2
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    I'll just go on a limb here and say YES. Mearly an opinion though.
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    Froomestrong?

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    He is as clean as all the rest of them.

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    Since he can climb with apparently little effort compared to the other guys I say he must be doping. Look at Contador, now that he might be off the dope after his ban, can't even begin to keep up despite his past ability as a climber.

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    We'll find out in 10 years.

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    He's as clean as a Jamaican sprinter...

    or any sprinter for that matter!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    He's as clean as a Jamaican sprinter...

    or any sprinter for that matter!
    Tyson Gay for one.

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    Just the fact that so much speculation is rife on the subject invalidates any validity of the TDF... does that make sense? The whole thing has become rather pointless when nobody thinks anyone is racing clean any more.
    I do NOT wish to spark a debate about whether doping should be allowed/disallowed, or whether so and so is clean or not, or whether you subscribe to the notion that 'everyone is doing it so they should too', I am merely pointing out that the whole thing is f**ked...

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    The way things are going, there may not be an official winner for decades.

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    Of course he's doping. Everyone dopes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Just the fact that so much speculation is rife on the subject invalidates any validity of the TDF... does that make sense? The whole thing has become rather pointless when nobody thinks anyone is racing clean any more.
    I do NOT wish to spark a debate about whether doping should be allowed/disallowed, or whether so and so is clean or not, or whether you subscribe to the notion that 'everyone is doing it so they should too', I am merely pointing out that the whole thing is f**ked...

    Back to MTB!
    Couldn't agree more. The whole thing seems pointless now. Time for a new challenge. Maybe a tour of Europe? Spend three weeks riding all over Europe. A tour of Arizona in July? That sounds challenging. Good luck with hydration. No stage starts until 230 and at least one day of the week you have to eat a big juicy burger at the start line. I mean, c'mon, I'm not entertained. Let them ride with the bulls in Spain for one stage or something. Wouldn't see many carbon bikes on that day.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    He is as clean as all the rest of them.
    ^this. whatever the case he is a beast. his stage yesterday was unreal.

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    do they even still have the TDF? who cares, its just dopers on sniffer bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoke2 View Post
    do they even still have the TDF? who cares, its just dopers on sniffer bikes
    What's a sniffer bike?

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    It's getting to the point to where if you eat a healthy breakfast loaded with "natural" vitamins and minerals on the morning of a race day, you're a doper. Ridiculous!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    It's getting to the point to where if you eat a healthy breakfast loaded with "natural" vitamins and minerals on the morning of a race day, you're a doper. Ridiculous!!!
    Pretty sure the TDF is on more then "a healthy breakfast"

    Its still fun to watch either way

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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Pretty sure the TDF is on more then "a healthy breakfast"

    Its still fun to watch either way
    Has now reached the point of what air you are breathing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nwbikur View Post
    Since he can climb with apparently little effort compared to the other guys I say he must be doping. Look at Contador, now that he might be off the dope after his ban, can't even begin to keep up despite his past ability as a climber.
    I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. Until evidence comes up that says otherwise, I'll believe that he's clean. Same with the other guys who have no proven doping past.

    And the GC competition simply isn't as strong as it has been at other times. Contador is just getting back into racing after spending some time off for his suspension, Andy Schleck is just getting back into racing after spending over a year recovering from that fractured sacrum. It takes time in races to get back into race form. Contador was planning to peak for the third week of this Tour, which is coming up. He's said that Froome tends to hit a wall of fatigue in the third week of grand tours, which is plenty understandable. It'll be an interesting last week of the Tour.

    This is Quintana's first Tour as a pro -- I wouldn't expect him to have the experience necessary to do very well. Even so, he attacked yesterday and stayed away for a while before Froome dropped him with 2km to go. Is a 2km attack really all that difficult? That's just about 1.2 miles. Apart from the final 20km, yesterday's stage was mostly flat and small, rolling hills. And let's not forget that Froome's domestiques did a crapload of work for Froome before he even took off on Ventoux.

    Anyways, I'm not too interested in the GC competition. I'm more interested in keeping an eye on the competition for the green jersey.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bro View Post
    I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. Until evidence comes up that says otherwise, I'll believe that he's clean. Same with the other guys who have no proven doping past.

    And the GC competition simply isn't as strong as it has been at other times. Contador is just getting back into racing after spending some time off for his suspension, Andy Schleck is just getting back into racing after spending over a year recovering from that fractured sacrum. It takes time in races to get back into race form. Contador was planning to peak for the third week of this Tour, which is coming up. He's said that Froome tends to hit a wall of fatigue in the third week of grand tours, which is plenty understandable. It'll be an interesting last week of the Tour.

    This is Quintana's first Tour as a pro -- I wouldn't expect him to have the experience necessary to do very well. Even so, he attacked yesterday and stayed away for a while before Froome dropped him with 2km to go. Is a 2km attack really all that difficult? That's just about 1.2 miles. Apart from the final 20km, yesterday's stage was mostly flat and small, rolling hills. And let's not forget that Froome's domestiques did a crapload of work for Froome before he even took off on Ventoux.

    Anyways, I'm not too interested in the GC competition. I'm more interested in keeping an eye on the competition for the green jersey.


    The third fastest ascent ever of the climb that put Froome in yellow is pretty strong. That's some rare air when your time is only bettered by acknowledged dopers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    The third fastest ascent ever of the climb that put Froome in yellow is pretty strong. That's some rare air when your time is only bettered by acknowledged dopers.
    There can also be very heavy winds (sometimes up to 50 MPH) near the summit of Ventoux. I'd expect the wind to have been mentioned if it was a big factor yesterday, but it's also possible that the wind has hindered riders near the summit in the past.

    Edit: From Wikipedia: "The wind blows at 56 MPH 240 days per year."

    Froome also admitted that he took a few minutes of oxygen after the stage yesterday. That climb wasn't without some serious effort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Of course he's doping. Everyone dopes.
    Yup. Pretty simple. They are all clean until caught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    The third fastest ascent ever of the climb that put Froome in yellow is pretty strong. That's some rare air when your time is only bettered by acknowledged dopers.
    Maybe it wasn't drugs but a heavy fishing line attached to a car and his bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    Maybe it wasn't drugs but a heavy fishing line attached to a car and his bike.
    It doesn't have to be that heavy a line.
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  25. #25
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    I will be the minority here and take the heat. After watching the last several TDF's stage by stage, It is my opinion that doping is less prevalent in this years tour. The riders ability and endurance has taken a serious hit in my opinion. Sky for example....last year that team was unstoppable and very hard to fracture. This year they have had a very hard time staying together to lead/protect Froome and he has been left on his own in no less than three stages. The climbers.....Valverde, Contador, Anton, and to some extent Tommy Voeckler are nowhere near their usual capacities. Quintana is simply an unbelievable new talent who can attack again and again on the climbs. We should all be keeping our eyes on him in the future.
    For the record....I don't even own a road bike. Just a fan of Pro cycling.

  26. #26
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    Froome. Doping or clean?

    He certainly didn't dabble in steroids and growth hormones like LA. I'm going with he has incredible leverage, almost no surface area for wind to hold on to, and that little snack bag was laced with goodies to refuel him right before the effort. That, or he found the next generation RBC enhancer.
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  27. #27
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    Not sure I care. No amount of doping could take me from my level to their level. They are physically gifted athletes.

    If I could take some form of drug that would allow me success and a 10x increase my salary, I would take it.

    What bothers me more about all the US doping committee thing is their complete lack of balls.

    Who do they attack - a cyclist - a fringe sport, with no huge money.
    Who are they going to go after next, tennis - another single athlete versus them.

    How about stepping up - could the NFL possibly have doping - no those guys are naturally like that. But, the NFL will destroy (probably literally) an outside doping agency.

    I love football and cycling. I also think many athletes in both sports cheat.

    Also, keep in mind that "cheating" is quite different in the sports.
    Cycling - rubbing cortisone cream on your saddle sored taint = banned drug violation.
    NFL - cortisone shot in your knee to start or finish game = OK.

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    ^ USADA is only responsible (and only has jurisdiction) over sports that follow WADA code, AKA Olympic sports. That's why NFL isn't bothered by them. And they just busted a runner, Gay, the other day for drug use. He won a medal in the 2008 Olympics, IIRC.
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  29. #29
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    And some Jamaican sprinters.

    I though the feed bag at the bottom of the climb was bogus. Relegate the team. A fine does nothing if you have the dough.

    Froome is so boring. I'd rather spend my day watching Geraint Thomas than that bobbing head of Froome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    A fine does nothing if you have the dough.

    Froome is so boring. I'd rather spend my day watching Geraint Thomas than that bobbing head of Froome.
    They do have Jaguars as their team cars.

    And Thomas is riding with a cracked pelvis. That's pretty badass! I think we've discovered RGOAB's true identity.
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  31. #31
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    Froome. Doping or clean?-image.png

    A blast from the recent past

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A blast from the recent past
    A sensible perspective!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelscott View Post
    Do you think he is doping?
    We’ve heard this story before with a rider claiming his new training methods, his recovery from a medical condition and his concentrated determination make him a statistical outlier in a peleton of also-rans. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    He's as clean as a Jamaican sprinter...

    or any sprinter for that matter!
    lol, or as clean as an American sprinter.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    And some Jamaican sprinters.

    I though the feed bag at the bottom of the climb was bogus. Relegate the team. A fine does nothing if you have the dough.

    Froome is so boring. I'd rather spend my day watching Geraint Thomas than that bobbing head of Froome.
    LOL, you americans are hilarious in here giving it to the Jamaicans for doping, the USA rivals East Germany for track athletes and sprinters on the juice, you guys would be kicking the jamaicans ass 100/1 lol, lets get serious here guys.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  36. #36
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    Thank goodness at least Bolt is clean

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    Theres no doubt the jamaicans are into doping programmes, i recon Bolts juiced to his eyeballs, so is just about every athlete that can run a sub 10 seconds.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    i recon Bolts juiced to his eyeballs, so is just about every athlete that can run a sub 10 seconds.
    88 Olympics come to mind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    LOL, you americans are hilarious in here giving it to the Jamaicans for doping, the USA rivals East Germany for track athletes and sprinters on the juice, you guys would be kicking the jamaicans ass 100/1 lol, lets get serious here guys.
    Hey. I'm just scared to death they're going to beat us in the bobsled again. Gotta kick them while they're down.

  40. #40
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    Naw, were outsourcing our Olympic team to China, we'll do great.

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    Now China, there's some doping. That girl that had the faster final 100m than Lochte of the 400 individual medley in the last olympics, yeah, that's normal...

  42. #42
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    Maybe Lochte was looking at himself in the reflection of the water, got distracted and lost some time.

  43. #43
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    It's a hard call. Froome came out of nowhere. Wiggins was an Olympic champion before his TDF. Froome turned pro in 07 and started on his first organized team in 08. He finished 84th overall in the TDF his first attempt before joining Sky. Is team Sky the new Postal team? Who knows, but it sure smells fishy. He wasn't a Quintana in his first tour. If that was the case, I wouldn't be so worried. 84th to 1 in a matter of 5 years in the biggest race in the world. He has huge potential, he could be doping, or both. Armstrong was both (I know we love the Armstrong comparisons.
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    Not to mention his parasitic worm infection which, until treated, hindered his training and athletic performance. Yes, Virginia you can indeed make a donkey into a racehorse.

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    You're right about Froome' mysterious ascension. From what I understand, Lance was really well known and was winning a lot of races before his TDF stuff. He could have been doping back from when he first started but I find that hard to believe that someone comes out of the gate doing drugs.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Maybe Lochte was looking at himself in the reflection of the water, got distracted and lost some time.
    Doood, where's the finish line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    I will be the minority here and take the heat. After watching the last several TDF's stage by stage, It is my opinion that doping is less prevalent in this years tour. The riders ability and endurance has taken a serious hit in my opinion. Sky for example....last year that team was unstoppable and very hard to fracture. This year they have had a very hard time staying together to lead/protect Froome and he has been left on his own in no less than three stages. The climbers.....Valverde, Contador, Anton, and to some extent Tommy Voeckler are nowhere near their usual capacities. Quintana is simply an unbelievable new talent who can attack again and again on the climbs. We should all be keeping our eyes on him in the future.
    For the record....I don't even own a road bike. Just a fan of Pro cycling.
    Well...I think it's telling that the "up and coming" Americans like Tejay Van Garderen aren't competing anywhere near as well as they were in previous years. I think the pressure is on the Americans from the DOJ and USADA, whereas it's business as usual for UCI and the Euros.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabone33 View Post
    I think the pressure is on the Americans from the DOJ and USADA, whereas it's business as usual for UCI and the Euros.
    Garmin is a prime example of a clean team that isn't even in contention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Of course he's doping. Everyone dopes.
    Even the guy that comes in last, he just took weed by mistake.
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    Froome. Doping or clean?

    I was thinking the same thing about the Garmin team.
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  51. #51
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    What Garmin team?

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelscott View Post
    You're right about Froome' mysterious ascension. From what I understand, Lance was really well known and was winning a lot of races before his TDF stuff. He could have been doping back from when he first started but I find that hard to believe that someone comes out of the gate doing drugs.
    Yeah, I doubt Lance as a 16 year old kid doing triathlons was doing drugs, but we all know how that story played out in the end. It's very bizarre that Froome was basically unheard of in comparison. That's makes me raise an eyebrow.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  53. #53
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    Even the broadcast crew was questioning the doping aspect yesterday.

  54. #54
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    All Lance did was level the playing field when he doped as everyone did it too. Now as to Froome, I don't know. Watch today's stage toward the end and see what Froome did there. Team Sky has said that all the training and blood data is available out in the open. I also heard that Froome's training rides and performance has not changed much in 2+ years or so. If a person dopes, those numbers would fluctuate a lot depending on the levels of whatever in their blood and I doubt that one would be on something 24/7/365....Just my 0.02 cts FWIW...
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    Froome. Doping or clean?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    All Lance did was level the playing field when he doped as everyone did it too.
    I think if he was simply 'leveling the playing field' he would not have won seven TDFs in a row
    I don't dispute that everybody was doping. But I think he was doping a lot more than everybody else. It was clearly more than leveling the playing field.
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  56. #56
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    Not doping more than everyone else, just a deeper program with the Posties along with Pharmstrong being a good responder to the treatments.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    All Lance did was level the playing field when he doped as everyone did it too. Now as to Froome, I don't know. Watch today's stage toward the end and see what Froome did there. Team Sky has said that all the training and blood data is available out in the open. I also heard that Froome's training rides and performance has not changed much in 2+ years or so. If a person dopes, those numbers would fluctuate a lot depending on the levels of whatever in their blood and I doubt that one would be on something 24/7/365....Just my 0.02 cts FWIW...
    I watched today's stage. Froome finally cracked and everyone saw it coming. Porte was stronger than Froome. Porte also went back to the team car and got him some food. Was he just a gel or two too short before that last climb, did he not blood dope, or did he blood dope and Movistar finally crack him? We'll never truly know, but I have a very suspicious eye after everything with Armstrong, Schleck, Contador, and do I need to keep going? Sky does seem like the new Postal team. They're causing great climbers Schleck and former winner Evans to fall off the back even before Porte even gets on the front and ramps up the pace even more.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  58. #58
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    When you draft your team all day you will look a lot better than the others that were not. That does make it look as if you are doping.
    I believe that Froome is not doping.
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  59. #59
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    Froome "bonked" and was still putting out ~5.8W/Kg on the climb, the Dawg was in fake em' out mode.

  60. #60
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by owtdorz View Post
    When you draft your team all day you will look a lot better than the others that were not. That does make it look as if you are doping.
    I believe that Froome is not doping.
    Froome does draft his team, but so does every other pro. I want to think he's clean, but I'm just too skeptical now. Either way, I still enjoy the entertainment and that's all that matters.
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I think if he was simply 'leveling the playing field' he would not have won seven TDFs in a row
    I don't dispute that everybody was doping. But I think he was doping a lot more than everybody else. It was clearly more than leveling the playing field.
    Doping at any level is still doping wether you're better at it than others only depends on your pharma backers...
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I think if he was simply 'leveling the playing field' he would not have won seven TDFs in a row
    I don't dispute that everybody was doping. But I think he was doping a lot more than everybody else. It was clearly more than leveling the playing field.
    Imo he was just doping better than everybody else. I mean if you're gonna dope, dope til you win. Otherwise whats the point?
    Armstrong is one of the absolute best dopers in history, that Mühlegg guy is also one of my favorites. He definitely wins by sheer amount of obviousness in a single competition. The man, the myth, the walking pharmacy.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    They're causing great climbers Schleck and former winner Evans to fall off the back even before Porte even gets on the front and ramps up the pace even more.
    Neither Schleck nor Evans have been "great" for over a year. Evans was at best mediocre at TdF 2012, and at the same time, Schleck was recovering from a broken sacrum.

    I saw an interesting piece in Velonews this morning. Now Greg Lemond wants everyone to release their power numbers, Froome included. He was there to welcome Froome at the summit of Ventoux the other day, but, as Lemond said, if they don't have anything to hide, they have nothing to lose by releasing data.
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  64. #64
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    All this conversation is useless, imo. We won't know for years. So sad that we can't be happy for winners nowadays knowing that they can make baldfaced lies to our faces and then turn around to hide their syringes and bags of blood and dope.

    So jaded.

    In any case, I kind of don't root for the leaders nowadays but the stories of the other guys. Guys like Jens and Quintana and even Talansky.

    And I'm not a big Contador fan but at least he makes things interesting.

  65. #65
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    Quintana is my favorite for this Tour, it's been so many decades since a Colombian has been in the mix.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishful Tomcat View Post
    Quintana is my favorite for this Tour, it's been so many decades since a Colombian has been in the mix.
    FTW! Quintana has been amazing. He will be one to watch in the future for sure!!
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    After reading the whole thread I realized I cant give a reply because I haven't watched the TDF this year. I just can't get into it only to be let down and disappointed by a rider getting suspended and stripped of their victory. First I watched Landis make an awesome comeback only to get caught doping. Next Contador gets busted and finally Armstrong. I really enjoyed watching cycling.

    Thanks for the news. This thread is only thing I've read about this year's tour... Sad!
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  68. #68
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    Odds are just too great for Froome to be clean.


    His performance up Mont Ventoux ranks right up there with practically every known doper who has the fastest record time ascending Mont Ventoux.

    I want to see Froome's performance numbers since '07/'08. Not just the last two years. That stunt by Brailsford only reenforces my suspicion of them.

    There's too much similarities between Sky and USPS. Is that evidence that Froome doped? Not at all.

    There's history in pro cycling that leads me to believe Froome and Sky are not telling us the whole picture. It's almost like watching a rerun of the TDF from '97 to '05.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    Odds are just too great for Froome to be clean.


    His performance up Mont Ventoux ranks right up there with practically every known doper who has the fastest record time ascending Mont Ventoux.

    I want to see Froome's performance numbers since '07/'08. Not just the last two years. That stunt by Brailsford only reenforces my suspicion of them.

    There's too much similarities between Sky and USPS. Is that evidence that Froome doped? Not at all.

    There's history in pro cycling that leads me to believe Froome and Sky are not telling us the whole picture. It's almost like watching a rerun of the TDF from '97 to '05.
    And here you have it - this is why the Armstrong was such a debacle for the sport and forever will be. We all watched it, there weren't any positive tests, he was only caught after so many years on the basis of other testimony.

    The outcome of all that, is that while ever there is imperfection in the system, people will think back to that time and wonder about every future winner and whether they are clean or not.

    It is now just as clean as if the sleeping dog had been allowed to sleep, but now the public opinion of cycling is irrevocably damaged, and its future champions that have been damaged just as much as Armstrong was.

  70. #70
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    I don't understand any of this! Isn't this the off-camber forum, not the Tour de Dope forum? I am truly fed up with all this doping and road-riding talk. I find this whole thing excruciatingly boring, and promise not to open this thread any more carry on... or not...
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