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  1. #1
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    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?

    I think so.

    I've always had potent stuff.
    Usually split systems with separate subs.

    but these days i'm not so sure anymore. people seems to be satistfied with a sh1t iphone and 1 dollar earbuds,
    and a usb/wifi speaker of the 2 inch variety. In my world those are called tweeters.

    my goal has always been to be able to play music just as loud as the clubs do, but cleaner and louder, if I want.

    whats your take on this?
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  2. #2
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    Absolutely!

    With nice clean bass
    Round and round we go

  3. #3
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    I have a car that's a lemon, and one of the few reasons I keep it (and keep putting $$ into it) is that the "stereo" sounds so good. Good-sounding music is extremely important to me, and if I didn't have it, well, you don't wanna know.

    I only listen to my CDs on my laptop with headphones, my home system or in my car. No phone, MP3 player or any of that crap-sounding shit.

    I'm not going to go as far as vinyl, though. Those pops drive me nuts.
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  4. #4
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    Vinyl is much worse technically speakin than cds/files but still I like them too. I only have club music on vinyl though. Since thats they way you spin it!
    Usually they did several masters for cd/vinyl and supposedly the vinyl techs (the old guard) knew how to compress and band limit stuff from the masters to make it sound as good as it could on vinyl.
    Vinyla has much lower bandwidth than cd and also much lower s/n ratio/resolution. maybe 12-13 bits at the very max, theoretically.

    Now i mostly listen to electronic music (club music), non commercial type and all that is made to be played at max volume of course. but there are many gems that dont need the max spl thing to sound good. they are meant to be heard at lower volumes, but even then its just as important to have good shit imo. these are 3 of my absolute favs. so beautiful. I think I heard these at least a 1000 times.

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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  5. #5
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    I need a very good system for travel in all its forms. Therefore some Bose QC bluetooth ones for planes, and a very good car system for that. At home I usually listen on the Bose headphones, or sometimes on my Bose computer speakers while I am working at home.
    It's all Here. Now.

  6. #6
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    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  7. #7
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    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I need a very good system for travel in all its forms. Therefore some Bose QC bluetooth ones for planes, and a very good car system for that. At home I usually listen on the Bose headphones, or sometimes on my Bose computer speakers while I am working at home.
    I tell you what. listen through phones will never sound as good as speakers.

    I have sennheiser hd650 and hd25, arguably maybe the best open phones ever made and probably definitely the best sounding closed ones made, but still these are nothing compared to speakers, at all volumes unfortunately. Its just too much that goes missing in phones.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I tell you what. listen through phones will never sound as good as speakers.

    I have sennheiser hd650 and hd25, arguably maybe the best open phones ever made and probably definitely the best sounding closed ones made, but still these are nothing compared to speakers, at all volumes unfortunately. Its just too much that goes missing in phones.
    Agreed, ya gotta feel the bass

    And at Bose price point there's much better. Headphones, speakers, whatever
    Round and round we go

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?
    It depends on how you define good.

    Stereo systems are not simply split into good and bad. There are many different aspects to music reproduction. Information retrieval, timing, pitch accuracy etc. Some systems are good at some things, poor at others or maybe poor at everything!

    For a system to be musically satisfying it needs to have a good balance of characteristics that allow you to understand the music and become involved with what the artists are saying. The thing is, it doesn't have to be super expensive to do this.

    The radio in your car can give you as much pleasure as a mega-buck hi-fi. I'm not saying that it will, but if it's a good car stereo, it can, because a car stereo can have a better overall balance of characteristics than a big system.

    Sadly, the poor digital systems that many people use are really hopeless at getting the fundamentals of music right. It has shaped the way people listen to music and effected the types of music that are popular, as there are types of music these systems just can't play! The average domestic stereo of the severities was better than today.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    It depends on how you define good.

    Stereo systems are not simply split into good and bad. There are many different aspects to music reproduction. Information retrieval, timing, pitch accuracy etc. Some systems are good at some things, poor at others or maybe poor at everything!

    For a system to be musically satisfying it needs to have a good balance of characteristics that allow you to understand the music and become involved with what the artists are saying. The thing is, it doesn't have to be super expensive to do this.
    For me that limit is about 105db or so full range. and it has to sound unaltered at that vol compared to low vol. well pretty much at least.

    You know, when you are pushing the volume, just for higher volume... If it doesn't sound better when you raise the volume, then you have reached the practical limit imo. no need to raise it more since there is no more good stuff to extract. well thats just my opinion. A good system though plays both good and loud.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I tell you what. listen through phones will never sound as good as speakers.

    I have sennheiser hd650 and hd25, arguably maybe the best open phones ever made and probably definitely the best sounding closed ones made, but still these are nothing compared to speakers, at all volumes unfortunately. Its just too much that goes missing in phones.
    I agree, but I might get worse than that guy on United if I brought speakers on the plane with me... The Bose are the best wireless I have tried so far, and I get a good deal on them so that's why I use them.
    It's all Here. Now.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I agree, but I might get worse than that guy on United if I brought speakers on the plane with me... The Bose are the best wireless I have tried so far, and I get a good deal on them so that's why I use them.
    I completely understand. for flights and this noise cancceling shit theryre running i get it. good work!

    but now listen to this as loud as you can. if you can.
    shit goes missing in phones.... (3 vids, apparantly have to do 3 separate posts) but you probably all get the point.

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  14. #14
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    my ****ing god!!!!!Q!
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  15. #15
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    A good stereo is a plus but what's more important is some taste in music. I sure as hell don't want to hear my neighbor cranking up rap crap or pansy ass bubblegum synthesized rattle trapping club noice that some call music.

    *rant over*
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  16. #16
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    **** yeah. and as expensive as your bose phones were. now you only have to spend like 20-50x more to "really get it".
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    A good stereo is a plus but what's more important is some taste in music. I sure as hell don't want to hear my neighbor cranking up rap crap or pansy ass bubblegum synthesized rattle trapping club noice that some call music.

    *rant over*
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  18. #18
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    Just like having a good pair of channel locks, a good stereo is a must in a man's cave.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    A good stereo is a plus but what's more important is some taste in music. I sure as hell don't want to hear my neighbor cranking up rap crap or pansy ass bubblegum synthesized rattle trapping club noice that some call music.

    *rant over*




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  20. #20
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    my mixer.

    thats 20dbu for u guys. and its an average reading

    do you think its important to have a good &quot;stereo&quot;?-mixuhrr.jpg
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  21. #21
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    and here is another wsong ypu havfge to hear in speakers, and i suggest you listen it through



    and another one
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  22. #22
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    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  23. #23
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    btw this is what a club sounds like

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  24. #24
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    Got to have good speakers. The first thing I do when I get a different vehicle is rip out the speakers, usually small magnets and paper and replace them with quality speakers. The same in my house. A good receiver and quality speakers. I can't stand listening to shit equipment.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMN View Post
    Got to have good speakers. The first thing I do when I get a different vehicle is rip out the speakers, usually small magnets and paper and replace them with quality speakers. The same in my house. A good receiver and quality speakers. I can't stand listening to shit equipment.


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    big magnets usually ensure loud volume at least. and thats half way there. big magnets - good output
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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    Specialized sucks ass.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    big magnets usually ensure loud volume at least. and thats half way there. big magnets - good output
    Loud volume without distortion. Of course, you have to have good frequency response to along with it. 20 hz to 20 kHz is a. Good starting point.

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  27. #27
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    I have a pair of JBL LSR305 on my wishlist, for desktop speakers.

    If I were planning a home theater, a pair JBL Studio 590 would be on my wishlist.

    I don't listen to heavy music, nor have any desire for room shaking lows. I like the faithfully accurate sound signature of JBL, as opposed to the bass/treble boosted HiFi stuff, and like that they're the largest speaker mfg in the world (considering they're part of Harman), and produce the speakers found in a massive majority of movie theaters. They've done their research well on how to best enjoy music. Too bad they can't fit that tech into their cheap sub $40 ear buds, but I appreciate that they do fit it into the LSR305, which can be found for a little over $200 for the pair.
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  28. #28
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    Love a good stereo even though my hearing sucks. AR Classic Towers are my speakers of choice right now.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Don't be hatin on the Biebs.
    He's the male Brittany Spears.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    For me that limit is about 105db or so full range. and it has to sound unaltered at that vol compared to low vol. well pretty much at least.
    Either you're talking crap or you're an idiot. Listening to anything at that volume can and will damage your hearing fairly quickly so you're ether deaf or your stereo isn't actually that loud ;0)

    And it can't sound the same loud as it does at low volume. The basic physics of your amp and speakers means that it will sound different at different volumes but more importantly, you don't hear things the same at different volumes. The most noticeable variation in your hearing is that music sounds more compressed the louder it gets. This is often partially the stereo too but your ears can only cope with sound within a certain volume range. Go over that and you are not hearing things properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMN View Post
    Of course, you have to have good frequency response to along with it. 20 hz to 20 kHz is a good starting point.
    It's not a bad finishing point as well considering you can't hear anything outside of that range ;0) Ok, a few gifted teenagers can hear slightly above 20KHz but if you're older than twenty-five you probably can't even hear that high. Once you get to about fifty if you can hear up to 12-15KHz you're doing ok.

    Very few domestic stereos can actually go down to 20KHz, even if they say they can. Getting clean sound that low certainly isn't cheap.

    The good thing is, despite manufacturer's claims, speakers haven't really got much better over the the last twenty years. In fact I would argue it's often the opposite. They've strived to make them cheaper to manufacture, not make them better. So if you want good speakers, buy used ones.

    Most good speakers are fairly reliable, if you don't abuse them, but the bit most likely to fail is the tweeter so checking the availability of tweeters is a good idea. My speakers are over thirty years old but I can still buy tweeters. Almost all B&W tweeters can still be repaired too.

  31. #31
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    It's kind of important to me but as much for the thunderous effects of movie viewing at home too.

    Aside from a Caddy Shack job at a golf resort for a few of my early-career years, I went to retail sales and sold what was still referred to by some old farts of the day as HI-FI. I stuck with it for about 6 years and was privy to the higher end gear of those days.

    It was a blessing and a curse as you might expect but once you "get into it" , there comes a time when you appreciate simplicity. **Like the bikes, less time fussing -more time to enjoy.

    From those days of custom designs, pre wired Doctors Homes, night club set up's, sound analyzing / signal processing and car audio install, I've settled on a system that's still 5.1 , Marantz electronics, and an array of Polk, Klipsch and Infinity speakers. Room acoustics like cars are so much the problem that if you can't 'read' the room, you will still accomplish some good by experimenting in set up and placement unless it's truly a room acoustically managed by design that's already good.

    My obstacle is extra subs. I always had one amplified sub, used to be Celestion and now a Polk. Was always a fan of the small to med bookshelf two-way on a stand as a sub satellite arrangement but years ago I was gifted some Infiinty towers that are a two-way with built in powered subs. Since they don't take up any more room than a speaker on stands anyways, I'm enjoying them more than I thought I would. Maybe on tech note my system is a 5.3

    Audyssey Sound Labs offers some features for tuning the sound to the room and can make some great headway in problem situations. We used to do this with dbX equip 35 years ago. Now it comes as a feature on some stuff these days ... luckily my Marantz.

    The Car;
    In 1983, General Motors got a CD player into the country before they were legally available. The exec came by our store to show it off. It was the Sony CDP-101 ($900 retail for a single disc) home player wired to a power converter so GM could do sound analyzing for car audio.

    I'd have thought car audio would be way more impressive by now if not long ago as per factory systems. In 1985, working in sales/marketing having left the audio salon, I had a Kenwood / Alpine / Boston Acoustics car set up in my company car that was quite nice. Used the dbX 2020 spectrum analyzer to set it up.
    Since then, nothing comes to mind other than over-rated BOSE car systems as factory options most refer to as BLOSE. My Infiniti coupe is factory BLOSE and my old Mazda was as is the new Mazda.
    It's sufficient for the time I spend in the car these days though and not worth the hassle of butchering up the factory dash and look.

    Maybe after new car-itis levels off, new car speaks.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    ...Years ago I was gifted some Infiinty towers that are a two-way with built in powered subs. Since they don't take up any more room than a speaker on stands anyways, I'm enjoying them more than I thought I would.
    It's very, very difficult to get separate subs to integrate properly. I really like the idea in theory, as large box loudspeakers have their own issues, but in practice it's a nightmare. There are several problems but one of the most intractable ones is having the bass and the rest of the frequency range coming from different places. The closer the drive units are to each other,. the tighter and more integrated the sound will be. I imagine you feel that your Infinity speakers boogie better?

    My last four cars have each had a stereo that was worse than the last :0( The last car had a Bose stereo with a sub which was pretty underwhelming and the current car is worse again. The best one I had was a Ford head unit and speakers I put in myself. Ford stereos always seem to sound nice.

  33. #33
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    In all of this discussion we have all ignored what really matters here. The source and the receptors. Listen to a direct to disc recording on a very good stereo versus a CD or mpwhatever, and there is no contest. No matter what speakers you are rocking. Also, the things we use to hear with are all rather different. Personally I have spent my lifetime involved in audio reproduction at all levels of concerts and events, and it don't mean shit if your source ain't up to snuff. As Prince used to tell his audio guy(s), "Don't change shit out there, the band are good enough"... not always the best policy, but you catch the drift...
    It's all Here. Now.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Listen to a direct to disc recording on a very good stereo versus a CD or mpwhatever, and there is no contest.
    I think that's the biggest issue with the way most people listen to music today. They want the convenience of playing music off their phone or computer without realising that the dog is crippled before it has even left the trap. Even CD has real problems and limitations and compressed music is a lot worse.

    That's why I say that domestic sound quality was better decades ago. Even cheap turntables produce a pleasant, musical sound, unlike the nasty digital boxes everyone has today. And having a good Hi-Fi was cool back then. Today it's all about convenience, integration etc. Where the sound comes out and what it actually sounds like is an afterthought.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    A good stereo is a plus but what's more important is some taste in music. I sure as hell don't want to hear my neighbor cranking up rap crap or pansy ass bubblegum synthesized rattle trapping club noice that some call music.

    *rant over*
    I could say the same for you and your classic rock fetish.
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  36. #36
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    I don't need it loud. Just quality background music. I hate having to yell to have a conversation with someone.

    I have 2 tuners, one for in the house and one for the back yard. Pandora via my Sonos is my primary route.

    The back yard has 4 Bose 151's strategically placed inside shrubs so the music just kind of happens.

  37. #37
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    Mr. Pig is clearly the audiophile up in here. Good stuff
    Round and round we go

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    I worked in a guys house last summer, he had a room built just for his sound system, french doors that opened up into a big entertainment room in his basement. He had over $200,000 (CDN) tied up into his stereo, he played a couple songs from one of Joe Bonamassa's live albums, never in my life have I heard music sound so good, close your eyes & its like you were there.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I think that's the biggest issue with the way most people listen to music today. They want the convenience of playing music off their phone or computer without realising that the dog is crippled before it has even left the trap. Even CD has real problems and limitations and compressed music is a lot worse.

    That's why I say that domestic sound quality was better decades ago. Even cheap turntables produce a pleasant, musical sound, unlike the nasty digital boxes everyone has today. And having a good Hi-Fi was cool back then. Today it's all about convenience, integration etc. Where the sound comes out and what it actually sounds like is an afterthought.
    There's good codecs on motherboards these days that pretty much make having a DAC redundant. I've seen respectable brands specifically design their chipset to minimize any possible interference/noise.

    Have fun cleaning your vinyl to minimize all those pops, crackling, and other noise (and still dealing with noise from imperfections), and storing them carefully to avoid damage, and dealing with handling large unwieldy media that holds minimal data. Have fun hunting the mint condition ones at the store... I'm sure you know they don't arrive at the store in pristine condition nor anywhere close to being perfectly flat.

    The price of convenience is relatively tiny. There's so much to gain from not being tethered down. Freedom isn't free. I love my Sansa Clip+, and wish they weren't discontinued. I have a FLAC library, but I find I rather have better battery life dealing with lower bitrate stuff. There's good compression codecs out now that sound surprisingly good, considering how small the file sizes are. Don't need to deal with sound mapping your room, or paying attention to tonally matching reverberation off the walls and ceiling and what not, when you're playing the sound directly to your ear. You won't find me bothering to place mics all over my room to shoot down odd harshness here or there. The most I'll do is some tweaking with a DSP (ex. iZotope), tuning with my own ears. In other words, I take care to not be an audio snob. I am happy there's so much tech out there that gives me the option to listen to decent quality music anywhere. I'm not letting some subjective high quality experience spoil what I find enjoyable for everyday quality.
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  40. #40
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    Hell yes, with Bluetooth and aux port jack. Good sounding speaker system also required.

    My original factory tape deck (with OEM Infinity sound upgrade kit) in my 1996 Grand Voyager stopped working with the cassette adapter after a while. I finally replaced it with a nice Kenwood unit, dammit shouldn't have waited so long!

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    There was a time when I had a nice Alpine deck, a couple Alpine V12 Expert amps, Infinity door speakers with separate tweeters (can't remember name/details), a Bazooka Tube, and Rockford Fosgates in the extra cab similar to the Infinitys. All cobbled together with Monster Cables and crossovers and dampening mats and such. I regularly had the truck gutted running wires and stuff. It did truly sound amazing, like you were immersed in the music. It sounded moar better with moar volume!

    Now I'm ok with the stock system in my new truck, lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    There was a time when I had a nice Alpine deck, a couple Alpine V12 Expert amps, Infinity door speakers with separate tweeters (can't remember name/details), a Bazooka Tube, and Rockford Fosgates in the extra cab similar to the Infinitys. All cobbled together with Monster Cables and crossovers and dampening mats and such. I regularly had the truck gutted running wires and stuff. It did truly sound amazing, like you were immersed in the music. It sounded moar better with moar volume!

    Now I'm ok with the stock system in my new truck, lol!
    That's all bad ass and all, but... I think the OP was talking house sound system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That's all bad ass and all, but... I think the OP was talking house sound system.
    I was simply giving examples of how important having a good stereo was when I was younger, and how I see things now.

    Relevant to the topic I think, no?
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  44. #44
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    My truck doesn't even have a stereo anymore. When I got it the volume know was sticky and I took the knob off and was turning it with pliers when all of the sudden the whole apparatus broke. Since then I've had nothing to look forward to hearing while driving (which I don't do often). I thought about getting a CB radio since I noticed the previous owners had an antenna set up, but it's actually a HAM radio antenna, which I don't have a license for.
    dang

  45. #45
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    I mostly listen to podcasts, no need for a stereo most of the time (I rarely drive too). I have a feed full of mostly educational with a few entertainment feeds. I haven't had a decent sound system since...

    Shit, uh? 2002? I started riding motorcycles full time in 2002.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I was simply giving examples of how important having a good stereo was when I was younger, and how I see things now.

    Relevant to the topic I think, no?
    Yes, mucho to a the topic. One thing I've had a lot of is quality car audio. JVC, Alpine, Pioneer, Jensen and some I'm sure I've forgotten. The best sounding speakers were Boston Acoustics. A set of two 6x9's costing $950 some 15 years ago. Amazing sound out of such a small package. Alpine being the next best sound IMO. I've got a JBL system in my truck that although factory it was special ordered. It has a 9" sub built in behind the rear seat and 7 speakers total. Along with amps.

    I also had a killer sound system in a 2002 Mustang GT that was factory but special ordered. It had 2 - 10" sub woofers built into the trunk with a tray of 4 amps. It was called a Mach 1000 which stood for 1000 watts of thumping madnesss. I pulled that sucker and sold it on eBay after I sold the Mustang. It actually pumped out 1140 watts of peak power. Only offered as a factory option in 2002. The later years had to be ordered through another company.

    A photo of the Mach 1000. 2002 Mustang GT

    do you think its important to have a good &quot;stereo&quot;?-img_2697.jpg

    do you think its important to have a good &quot;stereo&quot;?-img_2698.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    It's very, very difficult to get separate subs to integrate properly. I really like the idea in theory, as large box loudspeakers have their own issues, but in practice it's a nightmare. There are several problems but one of the most intractable ones is having the bass and the rest of the frequency range coming from different places. The closer the drive units are to each other,. the tighter and more integrated the sound will be. I imagine you feel that your Infinity speakers boogie better?
    Been lucky with the set up.

    The Infinity's do very well for sound stage or spatial imaging and the side-fired subs are 100 watt powered 8". I'm using the level control and crossover to more of the mid bass region on those. The Polk sub is left of center and not in or near a corner, no boom.
    It does well on it's own so I hadn't been tempted to try augmenting with lower range settings from the others.

    The set up as now is practical in the way it sounds and works and I've acquiesced with respect to settings that work for music and home theater.
    Once in a while I'll change up some things but for the most part, it does double duty with out much fuss. I rarely do any critical listening to music and run a few favorite Dish Net music channels for background.

    The Marantz has the room correction program Audyssey and the time delay options (correcting Haas effect) so the sound is tuned to the room and I have a slight delay bias for the front to rear channels.
    I used the ref below but the needed correction is pretty minimal as my rectangular room has the long walls running left and right.

    Vsound in air = [331.4 + 0.6 Tc]m/sec
    where Tc is the air temperature in Celsius.
    At a typical ambient temperature of 22 deg. Celsius (72 deg. Fahrenheit), the speed of sound in air is 345m/s or 1132ft/sec.

    This means that if say the difference in the distances between the surround and the main front speakers measured with respect to your main viewing position is 15ft, the required delay is ≈ 13msec., or approximately 1msec per foot.


    For the rear speakers, I went a little bigger than necessary because I wanted a tad extra punch and efficiency for sound levels on the movie effects. Those are Klipsch and match up well for the directional frequencies and effects.

    If I'm not actively watching tv, there are times I'll hear something off to the side and behind me so alarming that I run out to the back yard to see what it is.

    - Kind of embarrassing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    My last four cars have each had a stereo that was worse than the last :0( The last car had a Bose stereo with a sub which was pretty underwhelming and the current car is worse again. The best one I had was a Ford head unit and speakers I put in myself. Ford stereos always seem to sound nice.
    Reminds me of a an early Ford Focus I leased for 2 years, it was a Sony Xplod Limited Edition with a seriously nice sound upgrade, amp, sub / box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That's all bad ass and all, but... I think the OP was talking house sound system.
    hah hah

    Yeah but when the best sound system you have is in the car..... It was like that for me a few years.

    ** Such a blessing when I had that field rep job from 84 to 92 driving 35k a year or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    hah hah

    Yeah but when the best sound system you have is in the car..... It was like that for me a few years.

    ** Such a blessing when I had that field rep job from 84 to 92 driving 35k a year or so.
    So the best sound if you had to choose would be where you spend the most time. House or car. Some walk around in a daze wearing earbuds off an iPod.
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    I couldn't care less. Sure I can appreciate a nice sound system, but it's nothing I'd spend money on. I never got into the surround sound craze for my TV either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    I couldn't care less. Sure I can appreciate a nice sound system, but it's nothing I'd spend money on. I never got into the surround sound craze for my TV either.
    Surround sound is a waste of time, in my opinion, and if you love your music on a 'modest' system then more power to you.

    It doesn't matter if it's watches, hi-fi or dog collars. Someone somewhere will make stupidly expensive ones and stupid people will buy them. It's possible that the performance will justify the price, but it's very, very unlikely.

  53. #53
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    I love my surround sound

    Makes a good movie much more enjoyable
    Round and round we go

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    I don't think it's important but it sure is nice to have a little (lots of) thumpage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Surround sound is a waste of time, in my opinion, and if you love your music on a 'modest' system then more power to you.

    It doesn't matter if it's watches, hi-fi or dog collars. Someone somewhere will make stupidly expensive ones and stupid people will buy them. It's possible that the performance will justify the price, but it's very, very unlikely.
    Partially deaf in one ear, so a good system is wasted on me.
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    In the car, I think so, since that's where I do all my listening.
    Mine's pretty basic this time around, with just a pair of good component 6.5 and tweets in the doors, JL HO box in the trunk, and ~500w total. I'd need a high output alternator, 3-4x the power, and really another car(my Corolla is still noisy in spite of full sound damping) to get it "right", but it's better than anything someone who isn't a car audio enthusiast is ever likely to lay ears on.

    One of the wonders of modern audio is affordable sound processing. I've got an Alpine HU that has capabilities we couldn't duplicate with a trunkload of gear 2-3 decades ago. My components are delayed, I don't even know by how many milliseconds 'cause you can set it by distance, and the bass is so "up front" and well-integrated with the soundstage that there's no sense of having a sub in the trunk except on low notes that cause vibration back there. Freaking amazing, as is the overall sound quality you can get with a small system if you use good components. Hard to believe there's one little class D amp under my passenger seat running everything, too.

    At home, I've just got old Infinity Reference speakers and powered sub paired with an even older harmon/kardon receiver(bought in 1992) and Onkyo DVD/CD player. Could use more power and crisper speakers, but I'm not a critic, and it's good enough that I've never cared for something better.

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    My home system is solid with von schweikert speakers and PSA dual 15 subs. I run separates as well. When watching movies at home, I want to feel I'm on par with a good thx theater (I am). My stock system in ram 3500 is alpine and it's decent...not really into a mega system for the vehicles though


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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    Partially deaf in one ear, so a good system is wasted on me.
    Not really. If you can tell the difference between an ipod and a live band you can enjoy the benefits of a good stereo too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Not really. If you can tell the difference between an ipod and a live band you can enjoy the benefits of a good stereo too.
    Thanks for telling me how well my ears work
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    Thanks for telling me how well my ears work
    Well you said you were partially deaf in one ear, which means the other ear is fine?

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    The Mark Levinson stereo in my Lexus is the best sounding car stereo I've ever had.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Well you said you were partially deaf in one ear, which means the other ear is fine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I was thinking Beethoven instead of Van Gogh.

    That aside, I find myself pleasantly amused that people have been listing off Harman brands in this thread (ex. JBL, Infinity, Mark Levinson).
    We're all on the same ship, and it's sinking.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I have a pair of JBL LSR305 on my wishlist, for desktop speakers.

    If I were planning a home theater, a pair JBL Studio 590 would be on my wishlist.

    I don't listen to heavy music, nor have any desire for room shaking lows. I like the faithfully accurate sound signature of JBL, as opposed to the bass/treble boosted HiFi stuff, and like that they're the largest speaker mfg in the world (considering they're part of Harman), and produce the speakers found in a massive majority of movie theaters. They've done their research well on how to best enjoy music. Too bad they can't fit that tech into their cheap sub $40 ear buds, but I appreciate that they do fit it into the LSR305, which can be found for a little over $200 for the pair.
    I have a pair of jbl 305s as my mains. and as stand alone speakers they are not that good to be honest.

    They play loud and clear no shit but compared to orther a/b class systems they just sound shitty.

    I'm guessing its due to the class d amps in these.

    sounded good in the store nho shit but at home in comparison with what I already had. not so good.

    beware.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Either you're talking crap or you're an idiot. Listening to anything at that volume can and will damage your hearing fairly quickly so you're ether deaf or your stereo isn't actually that loud ;0)

    And it can't sound the same loud as it does at low volume. The basic physics of your amp and speakers means that it will sound different at different volumes but more importantly, you don't hear things the same at different volumes. The most noticeable variation in your hearing is that music sounds more compressed the louder it gets. This is often partially the stereo too but your ears can only cope with sound within a certain volume range. Go over that and you are not hearing things properly.



    It's not a bad finishing point as well considering you can't hear anything outside of that range ;0) Ok, a few gifted teenagers can hear slightly above 20KHz but if you're older than twenty-five you probably can't even hear that high. Once you get to about fifty if you can hear up to 12-15KHz you're doing ok.

    Very few domestic stereos can actually go down to 20KHz, even if they say they can. Getting clean sound that low certainly isn't cheap.

    The good thing is, despite manufacturer's claims, speakers haven't really got much better over the the last twenty years. In fact I would argue it's often the opposite. They've strived to make them cheaper to manufacture, not make them better. So if you want good speakers, buy used ones.

    Most good speakers are fairly reliable, if you don't abuse them, but the bit most likely to fail is the tweeter so checking the availability of tweeters is a good idea. My speakers are over thirty years old but I can still buy tweeters. Almost all B&W tweeters can still be repaired too.
    I know goddamn well how sound works both psycho-acoustically and physically
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  66. #66
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    btw my current system
    jbl 305 @ 108db each, +6 db pair
    and 2 tc sounds 10 inch 58mm xmech woofers. so yes i can play at 105db and even 115 db if i want., they are 115db free and about +6db next to a wall.
    mixer: mackie 802 vlz4
    crossover: dbx 234xl
    soundcard: esi juli@ at 22dbu out.

    whole system is balanced.

    sounds good here. gona swap out the jbls though. dont sound good enough

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    btw this tune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raqxctNC04k mother of fukking god!

    very compressed and punchy.

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Stereo/hifi/home theater is a never ending rabbit hole. You can do an awful lot to improve the sound of any system with room treatments and specialized measuring equipment...speaker placement is critically important as well.

    That being said, Sound equipment is one area where you really do "get what you pay for"...usually. Jbl speakers (most of them) are quite pedestrian imo and are certainly nothing close to audiophile quality (Everest series notwithstanding). I have lower end Vons, but almost bought some VR4jr's a few years back. I see some new Von models run up to $225k/pair now...ouch! I can't even imagine...



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    muddafukka!

    this is good shit at max blast!

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Stop posting Spazzy Marr videos! Not impressed!!!
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtsum2 View Post
    Stereo/hifi/home theater is a never ending rabbit hole. You can do an awful lot to improve the sound of any system with room treatments and specialized measuring equipment...speaker placement is critically important as well.

    That being said, Sound equipment is one area where you really do "get what you pay for"...usually. Jbl speakers (most of them) are quite pedestrian imo and are certainly nothing close to audiophile quality (Everest series notwithstanding). I have lower end Vons, but almost bought some VR4jr's a few years back. I see some new Von models run up to $225k/pair now...ouch! I can't even imagine...



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    I build all my speakers myself. except cheap shit, that I buy. but there is more to it than speakers imo. like amps.

    not many companies builds good abusable amps. NAD and Rotel do though. Behringers copy series of qsc is also good (but fan cooled and therefore noisy), and it cost almost nothing.

    you get what you pay for: usually a speaker is 10% elemeny cost and the rest is shipping/handling/packing/advertising/and all other crap. whatever it might be. basically 10% of the cost of the speaker is the cost of the tweeter and woofer. thats how it works. so yoou definitely get what you pay for. but you usually only get 10%. I know the delopepment crew for a brand and this is how it works.

    get scan speak.
    vifa (dont exist any more)
    seas
    peerless (now chinese).

    and dont look back.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Stop posting Spazzy Marr videos! Not impressed!!!
    wtf you wanna see then?
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Stop posting Spazzy Marr videos! Not impressed!!!
    WHAT

    WHAT ABOUT THIS SHIT?
    starts about halfway in


    and yes i did do alot of x in the 00s so what. never hurt anyone. not even me
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    are u happy now ?
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I build all my speakers myself. except cheap shit, that I buy. but there is more to it than speakers imo. like amps.

    not many companies builds good abusable amps. NAD and Rotel do though. Behringers copy series of qsc is also good (but fan cooled and therefore noisy), and it cost almost nothing.

    you get what you pay for: usually a speaker is 10% elemeny cost and the rest is shipping/handling/packing/advertising/and all other crap. whatever it might be. basically 10% of the cost of the speaker is the cost of the tweeter and woofer. thats how it works. so yoou definitely get what you pay for. but you usually only get 10%. I know the delopepment crew for a brand and this is how it works.

    get scan speak.
    vifa (dont exist any more)
    seas
    peerless (now chinese).

    and dont look back.
    Very cool. I'm not handy enough to attempt to build speakers...mine would look like crap I'm sure and sound tinny and boxy.

    I had NAD separates awhile back but sold them...have Emotiva separates now...I like NAD...good quality at a decent price (relatively speaking).


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    Quote Originally Posted by gtsum2 View Post
    Very cool. I'm not handy enough to attempt to build speakers...mine would look like crap I'm sure and sound tinny and boxy.

    I had NAD separates awhile back but sold them...have Emotiva separates now...I like NAD...good quality at a decent price (relatively speaking).


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    I'll tell you what.

    the problem with speakers is not building them its measuring them!
    so you get linear response
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I have a pair of jbl 305s as my mains. and as stand alone speakers they are not that good to be honest.

    They play loud and clear no shit but compared to orther a/b class systems they just sound shitty.

    I'm guessing its due to the class d amps in these.

    sounded good in the store nho shit but at home in comparison with what I already had. not so good.

    beware.
    I'll take a reliable modern high tech class d amp that has more than enough power (82W per speaker) to damage my hearing before it ever starts sounding distorted, over amps that are bulky, have overheating issues, and have more fragile componentry that can blow up.

    Sounding good is super subjective... people like their Hi-Fi boosts. What is it that you don't like about the JBL, that can't be tuned with a DSP? Pull out them audiophile words, like you want a more realistic sized soundstage or something, or you sense the cheap lightweight casing JBL used to fit their M2's tech into this affordable speaker misbehaving, vibrating and altering the sound subtlety. I'm wondering what you have in comparison... something that costs way more, takes up way more space, is heavier, plays much lower frequencies better?

    BTW, what exactly do you have set to +6 db? The LF/HF trim and input sensitivity don't go up that high. Don't tell me you basically turned up each up +2db and added it altogether... if you did, then I know why your speakers don't sound good as in the store any more.

    Regarding amps, I really hope you aren't going to try and talk me into analog (ex. tube) vs digital or some similar arbitrary or misconception/myth filled belief.

    In the end, the JBL LSR305s are studio monitors, not home audio/entertainment system speakers. They're supposed to be faithfully accurate. No sparkle, warmth, "airyness", extra large soundstage, etc. need apply.
    We're all on the same ship, and it's sinking.

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    Look, the bottom line is that this is all bollocks. Total bollocks.

    Is it nice to have a good stereo? Sure, it can be. Is it important? Not really. If you love music and can connect with it then you are there. The job is done and it does not matter whether or not you're using an iPod or a mega-bucks hi-fi system to play it on. If your music elicits the desired emotional response and involvement then your stereo works.

    I've been into hi-fi for over thirty-years and that is the most important thing I have learned. It sounds so obvious but it isn't to a lot of people. Thousands of hi-fi sheep spend a fortune on kit that does not make their music any more involving at all. In fact I've heard systems, which cost more than a small house, that are so boring it takes concentration to keep listening to them. Others are not that bad but still no more exiting than an iPod.

    Yes, expensive hi-fi can add a lot of things to music replay. More volume, deeper bass, more detail but how much of this is needed to convey the heart of a good song? If you play your favourite music, whether it's Elvis or Elbow, and it gets you. If excites you, moves you and you come away thinking 'That music is fantastic' then your stereo is good. It may not be good in 'hi-fi' terms but who cares. If it is good enough to connect you to your music then nothing else matters.

    'My woofies are bigger' and 'mine goes to eleven' is all just dick waving that has nothing whatsoever to do with actual appreciation of music. If your stereo doesn't push your buttons then please, feel free to find a better one but don't let anyone tell you that if you don't have the latest and loudest you are a looser. If you love your music, you've already won.

  80. #80
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    Well, tube amps do have their own sound signature, but I find them all to be inaccuracies.

    Tubes compress the bass, which can give listeners the "warmth" and allows them to turn up the volume to get "punchy" base without it sounding distorted or overbearing. In a faithful reproduction, bass loudness increases linearly with volume increase. In layman's terms, the bass's loudness is reduced at higher volumes in tubes. So what you get is people who enjoy vintage equipment who boost the bass at lower volumes, yet find it to be totally acceptable when the volume is turned up to 11, without all the rattling that is expected with increased loudness.

    Tubes limit levels as the volume gets louder. This makes sounds seem "fuller/deeper", because it is limiting the level of the primary sounds, preventing them from drowning out the softer sounds. It's different than detail, that you simply notice the softer sounds more, while detail is more about actually making out clarity and distinctiveness. A faithfully accurate system will play it as it would be heard in reality; if the softer sounds get drowned out, then that's how it's depicted.

    When tubes distort when they reach their limits, they don't do so in such a harsh/fizzy way. Their distortion is almost musical, at least for higher frequencies. This is the "sparkle" that some refer to.

    *shrug* I'm in this for the academics, since studying various waves in general helps with understanding science in the bigger picture. I'd go into analog vs digital (sampling), but there's already clear documentation on that available online. I merely referenced all this from my DSP, which has the ability to models a tube amp's characteristics. Having a speaker that is so tonally correct out-of-the-box is a great asset to have as baseline to experiment with. I'm not after clean accurate stuff, that's just for "lab testing" purposes (minimizing variables to make things simpler to test)... I'm more against questionable bias and judgement. I don't think snobs should be imposing their bias onto new listeners, as to what's desirable or not. I didn't want snobs to be able to freely criticize new listeners without any one to counter, about stuff like why they don't understand why new listeners like what they like... Bluetooth, mp3s, etc. totally have their worth.

    Anyways, JBL stuff on sale today at Amazon (see Arena series, daily deal). Also the Harmon site has JBL recertified stuff at a nice price, like their Sound Sticks or Charge 2+. I'm personally going ahead to gamble on a pair of B-stock LSR305s from ProAudioStar today (B-stock is hit or miss), rather than wait for new to hit similar prices. I love that waveguide on the 305.
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Well, tube amps do have their own sound signature, but I find them all to be inaccuracies...
    Very good summation of valve amps I think. While they can sound 'nice' the down side is that on certain music and in certain circumstances they can really screw your music up. Don't get me wrong, I've heard some great sounding valve amps but they're not for everyone. I wouldn't want one.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Look, the bottom line is that this is all bollocks. Total bollocks.

    Is it nice to have a good stereo? Sure, it can be. Is it important? Not really. If you love music and can connect with it then you are there. The job is done and it does not matter whether or not you're using an iPod or a mega-bucks hi-fi system to play it on. If your music elicits the desired emotional response and involvement then your stereo works.

    I've been into hi-fi for over thirty-years and that is the most important thing I have learned. It sounds so obvious but it isn't to a lot of people. Thousands of hi-fi sheep spend a fortune on kit that does not make their music any more involving at all. In fact I've heard systems, which cost more than a small house, that are so boring it takes concentration to keep listening to them. Others are not that bad but still no more exiting than an iPod.

    Yes, expensive hi-fi can add a lot of things to music replay. More volume, deeper bass, more detail but how much of this is needed to convey the heart of a good song? If you play your favourite music, whether it's Elvis or Elbow, and it gets you. If excites you, moves you and you come away thinking 'That music is fantastic' then your stereo is good. It may not be good in 'hi-fi' terms but who cares. If it is good enough to connect you to your music then nothing else matters.

    'My woofies are bigger' and 'mine goes to eleven' is all just dick waving that has nothing whatsoever to do with actual appreciation of music. If your stereo doesn't push your buttons then please, feel free to find a better one but don't let anyone tell you that if you don't have the latest and loudest you are a looser. If you love your music, you've already won.
    Absofukkinglutely! Nail, meet head

    Makes me laugh when people listen to electronic 'music' that has zero feel or warmth and expect their replay system to sound anything but loud. Acoustic Overkill just moves molecules, not the soul.
    It's all Here. Now.

  83. #83
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    Edit: Posted in the wrong thread.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 08-02-2017 at 05:57 AM.
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I only listen to my CDs on my laptop with headphones, my home system or in my car. No phone, MP3 player or any of that crap-sounding shit.
    Are you being sarcastic? Phones have been able to play CD quality (WAV format, 16 bit, 44.1kHz stereo) for quite some time, and they certainly can handle the file size as my soon obsolete GS7 has a 128Gb SD card (210 hours of WAV storage).

    Any decent free music app can handle lossless formats (FLAC at CD quality would be 400 hours of music on a 128Gb card) much higher bit rates and range than WAV, and at least eight channels.

    And if you want audiophile listening, micro dac amps run from impossibly cheap to obnoxiously expensive.
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    Are you being sarcastic? Phones have been able to play CD quality (WAV format, 16 bit, 44.1kHz stereo) for quite some time..
    Sure, but bit-count and quality are not the same thing. You could play a DVD on both a cheap laptop and a five-grand projector but one will look a lot better than the other.

  86. #86
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    Bit count determines the resolution of the waveform, so it sets a hard limit on the quality of the reproduction. But yeah, that alone does not guarantee a quality reproduction. Did you read my entire post? I mentioned using a quality dac amp if your phone's is not up to snuff. There are phones out there, though, with decently high quality setups. V10/V20 come to mind, and the Marshall London, which will drive cans with no issues IIRC.
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  87. #87
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    When you're talking about 8 bit, 16 bit, and 24 bit audio resolution, you're talking about bit depth. Sorry, just wanted to correct that.

    Higher bit depth does typically mean more bit rate, since there's more data per sample (50% in this case), but the real reason to use higher bit depth is to minimize digital noise from quantization. At 16 bit, noise is already below noticable levels, but people seem to claim they can notice improvement between 24-bit audio and the same audio downsampled to 16-bit (in lossless format). Heck, some people claim they can hear beyond 20 KHz. I'm not going to judge anyone else, I only will judge what matters to me. Thanks to the wonders of advanced math used by codecs, to shrink strings of data down to more simplified expressions, I find I can trade off slight amounts of quality in order to make my portable music player's battery last longer, as processing lower bit rate sucks up proportionately less juice.

    Well, thanks to this thread, I went and schooled myself up on turntables, and holy cow there is a lot going on that can be messed up physically/mechanically. The motor needs to be spinning an extremely consistent speed, at a certain speed, to attain a certain pitch (that nightcore stuff actually is turntable pitch turned up). Besides motor, belt, gearing, etc. issues, even a loose pitch control knob can be causing the motor to be sped up and slowed down intermittently while playing. There's all sorts of calibration and balance needed, such as leveling everything, making sure everything is seated properly, tight, and lubricated if needed, addressing potential sources of vibration... even then, certain quirks pop up like how the stylus tracking poorly at certain parts of the record, like closer to the center, how the stylus's geometry has an effect on sound, and even environmental issues like temperature, humidity, static, etc. I don't think I need to touch on vinyl quality, like dust, scratches, etc. causing noise and skipping, etc. Kind of reminds me of the kind of mechanically inclined guys that enjoy making their mtn bikes finely oiled machines, who choose bikes carefully based on their fine mechanical properties, to get the desired level of ride quality (the best they've experienced, but always could be better).

    Then there's the issue of things out of your control, like different studio master versions. A song can sound different from an album to a release as a single, and record companies have trouble managing these versions. At the very least, you can detect the different levels and gain staging, regarding how one version plays louder than another. With an album, they have more control to strategize their gain staging across multiple tracks, to keep levels even and noise to a minimum, which isn't so simple despite 32 or 64-bit floating point resolution.

    Anyways, I get the impression that people are chasing dragons, trying to find that sweet high that they once experienced. Especially these analog lovers. Analog gives a lot more room to throw money at a problem on your end to affect the quality. With digital, well, you probably have to read up on Bob Katz's "Mastering Audio" to learn wtf they did in order to know what to do to make it better on your end through signal processing.
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  88. #88
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    Turntables are primarily engineering products, so it's hard to make good ones cheaply. Digital is more technology-based so you can get good digital products that don't cost much. There is one caveat though, music is analogue.

    Even a fairly basic turntable, despite its flaws and limitations, can easily give a warm, pleasing and highly involving sound. Digital can too but, judging by the number of products that get it wrong, it's a lot harder to do and very few digital sources can match the involvement and natural sound of a very good turntable. Turntables can have a bottomless sound that draws you in and makes it very easy to forget you are listening to recorded music in a way very few digital sources can match, if any.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Turntables are primarily engineering products, so it's hard to make good ones cheaply. Digital is more technology-based so you can get good digital products that don't cost much. There is one caveat though, music is analogue.

    Even a fairly basic turntable, despite its flaws and limitations, can easily give a warm, pleasing and highly involving sound. Digital can too but, judging by the number of products that get it wrong, it's a lot harder to do and very few digital sources can match the involvement and natural sound of a very good turntable. Turntables can have a bottomless sound that draws you in and makes it very easy to forget you are listening to recorded music in a way very few digital sources can match, if any.
    Like I said, a direct to disc recording on a very good turntable system is an experience in listening like no other. Unfortunately direct to disc is not widely available, and certainly not for anything much other than in reproducing 'acoustic' musical instruments, but the experience shows the not-so-subtle differences in reproduction systems.
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    Of course, if you put me in a room these days and asked me to try and tell the difference between systems, I might well not be able to any more. 45 years of live music have exacted their toll on my hearing!
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  91. #91
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    I always was "into" music as there was pretty much always something playing in the house while I was growing up. My dad was into classical, opera, classic rock. My mom was into jazz & classic rock. I (in the 80s) was listening to whatever the radio was pumping out. All of it. Channel surfing different sounds. While it was a few years after of the birth of what I consider modern music, everything was new. Rap, electronic and heavy metal were developing. They had been around for a decade or more but the artists were becoming more "polished" at their crafts. Knock the 80s if you want, but I feel it was musically very explorative and expansive.

    Music is art and art is subjective. A lot of art I don't get, but that doesn't make it any less art.

    Back in the late 90s I started to experience an affliction known as disposable income.

    Anyway, When I could buy my own equipment I read everything I could. I've forgotten more than most of my friends ever knew. While they were chasing watts, I was looking for balance. I felt, and still do, that balancing your system and tuning it to your space is far more critical than mere specs. My brother brought a buddy over (while I was at work) who was a sound guy at a club. It was only pushing 50w/channel and had a mid sized powered sub. He said it sounded better than the system at the club. The room it was in was small and I didn't need a lot of power or big speakers. Just the right balance. I could drive that thing full gas and if the source was clean, there was virtually no distortion. I think I was into the system for about $3,500.00. More than any of my bikes cost. My receiver died a few years ago and I haven't replaced it. I've played around with $10,000.00 speakers, $50,000,00 amps, and all manner of things I'll never be able to afford. It was in a store that was conceivably built out for sound reproduction, but they never sounded as good as my equipment.

    I disagree with those who poo poo vinyl. If everything is right, and analog, with no limits on reproduction range you get higher highs and lower lows, and while you may not hear them, there is a feeling you get when that "missing" information is reintroduced to the experience. That was what HDCD and SACD was trying to do when they hit the market. Neither is/was as good at the task as vinyl is.

    Funny thing is, it's all relative. You can buy a "mountain" bike or stereo system at Wally World for $90.00. You can buy a buy a mountain bike or a stereo system for $8,000.00. They are different animals entirely, and so will be the experience.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_Re View Post
    Knock the 80s if you want, but I feel it was musically very exploitative and expansive.
    Agree. Musically the best decade.

  93. #93
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    Listening to Falco right now. Cha!
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  94. #94
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    A lot of electronic/synth stuff allowing musicians to great creative with melodies, also making it possible to do it all solo. A solo street violinist performing a song with a lot of depth to it, that would require a 4 man rock band traditionally, is a feat of technology. I don't mind seeing it for instruments, even electronic drum sets, but the whole voice altering thing somehow bugs me. I like hearing new instruments integrated into classics. Some music has me wondering, what the heck is that instrument... sometimes I hear some sounds like a maraca with a set of serrated ridges that is being beat with a small stick while also being shaken, and having the stick rubbed against the serrations, along a traditional orchestral ensemble.

    My "poo poo" on vinyl is that I don't get the hype behind it. Seems like so much effort, yet the benefits are hard to describe in any tangible way. Clarity and depth, sure, but I suppose I need to listen for myself to understand why such $$$ and inconvenience is being so hyped.
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  95. #95
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    Yes

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    When you're talking about 8 bit, 16 bit, and 24 bit audio resolution, you're talking about bit depth. Sorry, just wanted to correct that.
    I guess I don't clarify enough... Yes, bit depth is the amount of data space available to each sample, but it still affects the quality of the recording. The data space sets limits to SNR, the ability to reproduce lossless data, and dynamic range.

    Please note that this is in reference to producing faithful reproductions rather than those that use dithering, oversampling, etc to mitigate the errors produced by lower bit recordings.
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  97. #97
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    I agree. I have a high-end system with a recently restored record player and the sound is amazing to me and my friends.
    Vinyl is making a comeback for a reason, it does sound fuller specially with classical music. CD's are great in respect to portability, but don't have eternal life either as some of my earlier CD's are crapping out.
    My stereo system 'only' puts out 45 watts/channel but I can crank it up to maximum volume without the speakers 'clipping'. It is about individual choice, but a $10 sh^tbox from Chinamart doesn't cut it for me... YMMV
    Last edited by OscarW; 08-10-2017 at 05:58 AM.
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Vinyl is making a comeback for a reason..
    I think there are several reasons but the nice sound is certainly one of them. For kids brought up on phone-music a vinyl record sounds pretty special.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I think there are several reasons but the nice sound is certainly one of them. For kids brought up on phone-music a vinyl record sounds pretty special.
    Nothing like the crackle, crackle then skip, skip sound. Then bumping the needle to get it off the never ending loop of the skip.

    Good stuff!
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Nothing like the crackle, crackle then skip, skip sound. Then bumping the needle to get it off the never ending loop of the skip.
    You're right, my turntable is nothing like that ;0)

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