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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    I agree. I have a high-end system with a recently restored record player and the sound is amazing to me and my friends.
    Vinyl is making a comeback for a reason, it does sound fuller specially with classical music. CD's are great in respect to portability, but don't have eternal life either as some of my earlier CD's are crapping out.
    My stereo system 'only' puts out 45 watts/channel but I can crank it up to maximum volume without the speakers 'clipping'. It is about individual choice, but a $10 inbox from Chinmart doesn't cut it for me... YMMV
    I'm not sure CD's are considered portable anymore. I've still got one of the yellow Sony Sportsman CD players (and one of the original anodized aluminum players of the early 90's), but even burning mp3's gets you just 40-50 songs before the quality turns to dust. I had maybe 350 CD's, and cherry picking favorites meant I still needed at 10 CD's on hand to have a decently diverse listening to get me through work. Carrying 10 CD's, even in a sleeve case, was not particularly convenient (or light) as I also had to carry the player.

    Portable? Sure. I've got a 60lb sewing machine that is also 'portable'.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  2. #102
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    ^ I meant portable in a sense that CD's are more easily played in a car or motorcycle... I had a BMW K1200LT that came with a CD changer in the side case. It was of course promptly removed by me to gain storage for luggage and I used my I-Pod for music.
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  3. #103
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    I miss car CD players. The last two cars had 6-CD changers and I liked that set-up. If you were going out to the car and wanted to take an album with you you could just grab it and chuck it in the changer.

    The current can has a USB socket, blue-tooth etc but I'm not a fan. You have to plan taking music to the car as it has to be transferred onto the phone or USB stick beforehand. End up just listening to the radio instead.

  4. #104
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    I've got a premium Clarion CD player from the early 90's and a triple Fosgate setup from before they became Best Buy crap to back it up. The Clarion lets you assign the music genre to each station... I found that very useful, but RDS was right around the corner

    Still got the setup, but never got about to dealing with the double-din space of my Escape, and now everything has gone digital, and all but two of the stations that play decent rock have pushed pushed their lineup to the sidebands and play pop on their main digital and old analog channel.

    The vehicle I'll get this winter will have one of those integrated units, and I think I'll be SOL for anything other than getting level converters and installing my amps and speakers, because they integrate so much vehicle activity into the touch screens now, I won't want to lose functionality.

    Then you've got the vehicles like my wife's 2013 Escape where there is a display at one end of the dash, controls at the other. Can't imaging someone making a faceplate that's a few feet in diameter to replace all that stuff so you can stick a din stereo in the dash.
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  5. #105
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    These days, I'm not a terribly discriminating listener beyond liking components with a certain tonal balance that "sound right" to me and a good sub for some dynamic low end to back them up. Going digital has been ok with me. I'm not happy with anything I've copied from CD, but downloads from Amazon Music have mostly(they can be low quality, too) been good enough.
    Currently have this head unit, which I've been using >3yrs:
    Alpine
    It has an auxilary input that I routed behind my glove compartment. Having everything on a USB drive is so convenient when driving that I may eventually move to one of the versions that has the same features and sound processing, but ditches the CD player altogether.

  6. #106
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    PM me if anyone has any vintage Marantz or Sansui (or comparable) receivers they'd want to sell/part with/give away.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    PM me if anyone has any vintage Marantz or Sansui (or comparable) receivers they'd want to sell/part with/give away.
    What is it you Americans have about receivers? A big receiver is your de-facto Hi-Fi amplification solution. Here in the UK receivers exist but were always considered a compromise with most people opting for a separate amp and source components. It's interesting to see how different cultures have developed different strategies.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    What is it you Americans have about receivers? A big receiver is your de-facto Hi-Fi amplification solution. Here in the UK receivers exist but were always considered a compromise with most people opting for a separate amp and source components. It's interesting to see how different cultures have developed different strategies.
    I actually still have my old workhorse Technics components setup; amp/pre-amp, tuner, EQ. 165w RMS x5 19 years ago was a beast of a unit, still is actually, and still works flawlessly.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    165w RMS x5
    An AV amp?

  10. #110
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    Many years ago I was deep in car stereo. Nowadays not so much but I do have a modest system consisting of some Rockford amps, higher-end Pioneer mids/highs, and a Sundown Audio 10" sub. Nothing special but leaps and bounds better than the factory system.

    I also have a small 2.1 home system on my computer and another on my TV. Again...nothing crazy but enough to shake the windows if I want and the mid/highs are pretty great for a budget system.

    Headphones are another one I was into for a while. At the moment I've kinda gotten out of the hobby but still have a pair of Grado RS1, Philips Fidelio X2, Denon D2000, and Etymotic ER4's and run them off either a Cmoy, Little Dot 1+, or my Schitt Audio Magni 2 Uber.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    An AV amp?
    Yep, but as usual, can drop down to 2ch for music only.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    Yep, but as usual, can drop down to 2ch for music only.
    Yeah, but what I'm saying is that in the UK there was a big push in the seventies through eighties to have components that were as simple as possible. The theory was that any unnecessary features in a component cost money and compromised the sound quality. The hi-end British manufacturers typically made amplifiers with little or no extra features, not even tone controls, and these were the products most audiophiles aspired to.

    These types of product still exist but the market has shifted so much even the most hard-line minimalist manufactures now make feature-laden all-in-one boxes that do everything bar making your dinner!

    So was the minimalist philosophy bull? Not entirely, but it was exaggerated.

    I just think it's funny that the British audiophile sought to buy amplifiers that didn't have tone controls while American ones wanted boxes that did as much as possible!

  13. #113
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    I'll show you what I mean.

    One of the leading proponents of minimalist Hi-Fi was Naim Audio. At the time the box shown below, the NAC-32, came out it was their best pre-amp. Note, pre-amp, that's it. All the box does is volume control and switch inputs. It does not even a have a power-supply/transformer in it! To make it work you need a Hi-Cap power-supply and to get sound out you need to plug it into power-amplifier so that's a minimum of three boxes, just for your amplifier. At that time Naim made no integrated amplifiers let alone receivers.

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-873956-naim-nac-32-ou-325-ou-72.jpg

    Fast forward and today Naim make this, the Unity Star. CD player, amplifier, DAB radio, music streamer, SD card slot, heck the list is endless. So far removed from their roots it's ridiculous, so why the shift? Because if they still only made minimalist products, they'd be out of business.

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-engineering_design_-_star.jpg

  14. #114
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    I like a decent stereo, but I guess, decent is subjective.
    Main room is a mid range Yamaha AV amp, with B&W speakers and sub with Sony TV and PS4 and PVR.
    Other room is Low en Sony amp with Bose speakers (little cube ones I "borrowed" permanently) with NAD turn table
    Traveling is Bose noise cancelling headphones I got when travelling to Japan when my AKG's fell to bits.

    Stereo in the car is the factory one, which is fine in the driving along with music on, but as soon as yo want to turn it up loud...nope

    Nothing fantastic but it all does the job fine, but I would like a fancy pants amp one day just for the "I want one" factor... but till then this will do fine.
    All the gear and no idea.

  15. #115
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    For me it is important. Last year I bought an old truck that came with a cassette/cd combo deck. Not only was it was under powered it also didn't work right. It wasn't long before I invested in a double din deck with cd/DVD player, blue tooth etc. I also found a killler deal on a small sub with amp and bought it also. Sounds freaking amazing and I'm now a very happy man.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I just think it's funny that the British audiophile sought to buy amplifiers that didn't have tone controls while American ones wanted boxes that did as much as possible!
    I think any true audiophile would seek the same, regardless of nationality. I know plenty of people myself that did just that. But alas, I'm no audiophile, not even close. But I completely appreciate the fact that people get that into it. No different than any hobby really. The only limit is usually your wallet.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig
    So was the minimalist philosophy bull? Not entirely, but it was exaggerated.
    Have you come across the Zen amplifier? This takes minimalism to its illogical conclusion by being a power amp with only one transistor. By rights it should sound appalling, but a lot of people do seem to like them. A friend of mine built one out of curiosity, and it did indeed sound much nicer than one might expect. I think what's going on here is that the Zen amp has a horrendous distortion spec, but it's nice 2nd and 4th order harmonic distortion like a valve amp, not the nasty higher-order (5th, 7th, 9th) odd harmonics that a bad bipolar transistor amp will produce.

    I like sensible minimalism, me. Give me tone and balance controls that can be switched out with nice gold-flashed signal relays. Nuts to the Zen silliness though.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    Have you come across the Zen amplifier? This takes minimalism to its illogical conclusion by being a power amp with only one transistor.
    I haven't, but I've seen other similar minimalist fringe audio philosophies. They tend to be popular with DIYers and modders, probably because they're relatively easy to make.

    My problem with stuff like this is it tends not to be very well rounded. It'll sound fantastic on some kinds of music, rubbish on others. It's usually very clean, simple signal that works, so female vocals with sparse acoustic backing sounds nice, but things fall to bits when it gets busy, loud and demanding. Years ago I built a passive step-up transformer for a Denon moving coil cartridge I was using at the time. The vintage guys insisted it was the way to go with this cart, it was if you only listened to vintage female singers! Start throwing some modern rock through it and the poor thing put its hands up. It got all dull and confused and properly weird things went on in the bass.

    It's always worth at least trying things, you never know what you might be missing, but the stuff on the fringes tends to be there for a reason.

  19. #119
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    Hey Mr Pig, I know this is off topic, do you have any experience with digitizing record albums, like converting them to MP3s?

    I've been converting all my CDs and want to do my records. I've got a stand alone CD recorder with RCA inputs that I've used to record records onto CDs in the past, but was wondering about RCA to computer inputs.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Hey Mr Pig, I know this is off topic, do you have any experience with digitizing record albums, like converting them to MP3s?
    I've never done it, never had the desire, but it's not hard. If your computer/sound card has a microphone socket then you can just plug the output from your amp tape outputs into that. That's the Walmart way to do it ;0)

    If you want better quality what you want is a better sound card or separate audio interface. You'll probably have seen stand-alone DACs, Digital to Analogue Converters. They are a popular means of getting digital sounds into your Hi-Fi. An audio interface is just the same thing but it can turn analogue into digital as well.

    They vary in price enormously but even the cheap ones sound ok and will certainly be good enough for portable/MP3 use. My son has one of these, it's a relatively good one, but even a cheap Behringer one is going to work. You can probably buy a Chinese one on eBay for a few quid that'll do the job.

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-81ajj4r8r5l__sl1500_.jpg

  21. #121
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    Thanks Mr Pig! I'll look for one on amazon. I just got a flash drive that's about the size of my thumbnail and holds thousands of songs. A lot easier than hauling my vinyl collection around and listening to them on a record player in my truck.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I just got a flash drive that's about the size of my thumbnail and holds thousands of songs.
    Yeah, as always, it's just a question of quality. There isn't much point in spending hundreds on an interface just to play MP3s in the car. Having said that, the sound quality of the cheap interfaces really isn't that bad. You'll be surprized.

  23. #123
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    Yeah, my standards for sound quality get lower as I get older, lol. I'll take convenience over quality, which as you say doesn't sound too bad generally. I'll still have my vinyl for if and when I do get into better sounding stuff. I've converted some YouTube songs to MP3 that sound just fine on my $50 Kenwood car stereo stored on a $10 USB thumb drive.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I haven't, but I've seen other similar minimalist fringe audio philosophies. They tend to be popular with DIYers and modders, probably because they're relatively easy to make.

    My problem with stuff like this is it tends not to be very well rounded. It'll sound fantastic on some kinds of music, rubbish on others. It's usually very clean, simple signal that works, so female vocals with sparse acoustic backing sounds nice, but things fall to bits when it gets busy, loud and demanding. Years ago I built a passive step-up transformer for a Denon moving coil cartridge I was using at the time. The vintage guys insisted it was the way to go with this cart, it was if you only listened to vintage female singers! Start throwing some modern rock through it and the poor thing put its hands up. It got all dull and confused and properly weird things went on in the bass.

    It's always worth at least trying things, you never know what you might be missing, but the stuff on the fringes tends to be there for a reason.
    I'd agree with all of that. It's very true that sparse music sounds good on a lot of systems, but the real test for a hi-fi system is music that's dense and lush. The nastiness is usually due to intermodulation distortion (IMD), where two frequencies mix together and any non-linearities produce two spurious "sum and difference" frequencies that aren't harmonically related to the originals. This is bad enough with two pure tones, but with music where there's a lot going on the IMD products make a right mess. It's interesting that you say that female vocals aren't as affected - the average female voice has a narrower bandwidth than the average male voice, so fewer grating IMD frequencies will be produced.

    One method to reduce IMD is to crank up the negative feedback on the power amp. This produces a total harmonic distortion (THD) figure with lots of zeroes after the decimal place, which the marketing guys love, but it also reduces the stability margins of the amp so that fast transients (hi hats, say) make the amp ring like a bell slightly. This doesn't sound too bad at first, but becomes quite fatiguing after a while.

    Intermodulation distortion is also why some people can hear normally inaudible ultrasonic frequencies, usually emanating from a whining electronic power supply. These people have a type of tinnitus due to spastic ear muscles that can actually be mic'd up and measured - their ears are actually acting like little speakers! The internal ear whine and the ultrasonic electronic whine intermodulate, and if the difference frequency falls into the audible range then it can be heard.
    M¦dgemagnet

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I've converted some YouTube songs to MP3 that sound just fine on my $50 Kenwood car stereo stored on a $10 USB thumb drive.
    You could upgrade to cassette! ;0)

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    It's interesting that you say that female vocals aren't as affected - the average female voice has a narrower bandwidth than the average male voice...
    When I went into Hi-Fi shops years ago female vocal or solo guitar were pretty near the top of the list of dem music choices because it's easy to get a Hi-fi to do them convincingly. Rock music is a different ball game! And compressed rock/pop on CD is nightmare ;0) When I bought my first CD player I took in a CD of Hanson 'Middle Of Nowhere' and said 'I want a CD player that can deal with stuff like this'. The guys in the shop were a bit snooty about it but it's about the kit playing your music, not you choosing music that shows off the kit.

  27. #127
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    Intermodulation distortion is also why some people can hear normally inaudible ultrasonic frequencies, usually emanating from a whining electronic power supply. These people have a type of tinnitus due to spastic ear muscles that can actually be mic'd up and measured - their ears are actually acting like little speakers! The internal ear whine and the ultrasonic electronic whine intermodulate, and if the difference frequency falls into the audible range then it can be heard.
    Fascinating. This is probably me. I've long known that I've had issues with hearing whines from electronic power supplies. Sometimes they've been bad enough to produce crippling migraines. There are a couple of instances in particular that are notable.

    I took a piano class in college, where the pianos were all electric and the instructor had a big mixer so she could hear just individual players. I walked into class one day and hit the deck from the screech. Most people in class heard absolutely nothing. One other student admitted to hearing a "faint buzzing". After grimacing through it, I was able to identify the location of the sound to the instructor's area. She looked at her mixer board and saw that one of the knobs was jacked way off. She turned it down and the noise disappeared.

    I've always been able to hear CRT TV's and monitors. They always got worse as they aged.

  29. #129
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    To the OP.... NO

  30. #130
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    Get yourself connected, connected to the Stereo...

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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I've always been able to hear CRT TV's and monitors.
    My eldest son can hear them as well. We have a small Sony CRT in the kitchen and he moans about it all the time. No one else can hear it. We sent him for a hearing test and they said his hearing was as good as it was possible for human hearing to be. He could hear the whine above 20k that even his teenage siblings couldn't hear.

    I'm wondering if he has the same thing as you. When I was young my high-frequency hearing was good but it was never much of a problem where as he says the noise off the TV is terrible.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    My eldest son can hear them as well. We have a small Sony CRT in the kitchen and he moans about it all the time. No one else can hear it. We sent him for a hearing test and they said his hearing was as good as it was possible for human hearing to be. He could hear the whine above 20k that even his teenage siblings couldn't hear.

    I'm wondering if he has the same thing as you. When I was young my high-frequency hearing was good but it was never much of a problem where as he says the noise off the TV is terrible.
    I can also hear dog whistles plain as day. I remember an occasion in high school where a guy was walking down the hallway blowing one, and I think I was the only person who turned to look at him.

    In middle school, I was crippled by the crappy sound system that the gym teacher used during an aerobics class to play some Whitney Houston song or another. I was not sad to spend the period in the nurse's office that day.

    I also have difficulties processing sounds in "busy" environments. Picking out one person's speech in a noisy room. Picking out lyrics in a song with lots of complicated music. That sort of stuff. I pick out bird songs sooner than many, but have a difficult time identifying the song in many situations. I am quite good at identifying the direction of the source of a sound.

    Loud concerts have always been a problem for me. I just can't enjoy them unless I'm FAAAAAR away from the sound source.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I also have difficulties processing sounds in "busy" environments. Picking out one person's speech in a noisy room. Picking out lyrics in a song with lots of complicated music. That sort of stuff. I pick out bird songs sooner than many, but have a difficult time identifying the song in many situations. I am quite good at identifying the direction of the source of a sound.

    Loud concerts have always been a problem for me. I just can't enjoy them unless I'm FAAAAAR away from the sound source.
    Na, my son doesn't have any issues like that, he's just got very good hearing. I was asking him about it the other day. He complains about it and can't wait until he looses the high end and I keep telling him he's an idiot. He should be taking care of his hearing, it's a gift, especially as he's a sound engineer! But he gets all obsessive about these things. Right now he's ripping apart my daughters little recoding suite to try and silence a background whine she almost certainly hasn't even noticed.

  34. #134
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    That's interesting to hear the experiences of Harold and young Master Pig. Quite often people who complain about whines that no-one else can hear don't get believed, but it's very easy to prove or disprove by turning off the electrical appliances one by one until the noise disappears. It's an increasing problem these days due to the proliferation of switched mode power supplies (SMPS), which are nice and efficient but do produce ultrasonic noise due to magnetorestriction in the transformers and inductors that are being constantly hammered by a train of pulses. SMPSs don't normally run lower than 50 kHz, but under light loads they can skip pulses and make noise at lower frequencies.

    I've dug around on an old hard drive for some simulations I did ages ago to illustrate intermodulation distortion. I've taken two sine waves (pure tones) of different frequency, and mixed them together in a fairly clean amplifier, and then again in a distorting amplifier. The first pic shows (from top to bottom): 25 kHz pure sine wave, 30 kHz pure sine wave, both sine waves mixed together in a fairly clean amp, both sine waves mixed together in a distorting amp:

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-non-linearmixerytplot.gif

    Next pic is a fast fourier transform (FFT) of the output of the clean amp. Read it like a spectrum analyser display:

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-non-linearmixerfft-cleanmix.gif

    There are 2 big spikes at 25 kHz and 30 kHz - our clean signals - plus some tiny spikes higher up (it's only a clean-ish amp):

    Lastly, the spectral content of the distorting amp:

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-non-linearmixerfft-non-linearmix.gif

    What a mess, and that's only with two pure tones! Put some actual music in there and it'll turn to mud. The 25 kHz and 30 kHz tones are the strongest signals, but the second-biggest spikes are at 5 kHz (=30-25 kHz) and 55 kHz (30+25 kHz). If that's not bad enough, each spurious tone produced will interact with every other frequency, and so on, until there are spurious tones everywhere. In this example the numbers fall so that the spikes are all 5 kHz apart - with hindsight I should have chosen source frequencies that were prime numbers as unfortunately the harmonic distortion spikes fall on the same numbers as some of the intermodulation distortion spikes.

    I agree that Mr Pig's son is more likely to have very good hearing rather than tinnitus, and long may that happy state remain - modern PA systems can be brutal, and I know many musicians and DJs who have copped a dose of tinnitus. My ears are whining slightly at the moment 'cos I'm a bit tired, but the only superpower I have is the ability to tell whether it's been raining, courtesy of an old leg injury.

    Anyhoo, that's the effect of IMD for you. I've exaggerated the distortion levels for illustrative purposes, but it is very good proof why Mr Pig is more than justified in rejecting guitar-and-female-vocals recordings for hi-fi listening tests.
    M¦dgemagnet

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    That's interesting to hear the experiences of Harold and young Master Pig. Quite often people who complain about whines that no-one else can hear don't get believed, but it's very easy to prove or disprove by turning off the electrical appliances one by one until the noise disappears. It's an increasing problem these days due to the proliferation of switched mode power supplies (SMPS), which are nice and efficient but do produce ultrasonic noise due to magnetorestriction in the transformers and inductors that are being constantly hammered by a train of pulses. SMPSs don't normally run lower than 50 kHz, but under light loads they can skip pulses and make noise at lower frequencies.
    I have been noticing a high pitched whine since I moved into this new apartment about 2mo ago. Not sure if it is legit tinnitus that I am only just now noticing because it is much quieter in general here than the last place I lived, or if there is something electronic that is causing it. I am leaning towards tinnitus, because there appears to be no directionality to it. Shame, if so.

    I used to simply have sensitive hearing, but pretty sure some of my more excruciating moments have caused some damage.

    I can certainly agree that throughout my life, people have said I was crazy because I thought I heard something. People who know me have learned to pay attention when I say I hear something.

    More than that, though, is my sense of smell. I know and can identify smells of things most people have never smelled. Sycamore trees have a smell. One of my favorites. Strong smells are also problematic for me.

    I have identified problems with friends' cars based on both my hearing and smell...when they never knew they had a problem. Once discovered a friend's car was burning antifreeze and venting the vapors into the cabin. She never noticed the smell.

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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    I've dug around on an old hard drive for some simulations I did ages ago to illustrate intermodulation distortion.
    That's pretty awesome, thank you :0) There is a difference between knowing something exists and seeing exactly how it works.

    I've had tinnitus for many years and to be honest, it doesn't bother me that much. I can hear it right now but if I don't think about it it's easy to ignore. You would know if you had tinnitus Harold as it never goes away and never changes. It's a constant tone, twenty-four seven.

  37. #137
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    I'm cursed with the ability to discern good stereos from bad. Just like mountain bikes, once you experience the benefits of high quality equipment, it's hard to go back to the cheap stuff.

    For 2 channel music, I don't use any sound processing, and try to tune the sound with room treatments (Gik). For movies, I'll let my receiver do its magic

    Main stereo:
    Salk HT2-TL Speakers
    Audio Van Alstine fetvalve preamp and amps
    Eastern electric DAC
    Marantz receiver for movies
    2 Powersound 15" subs for movies

    Bedroom:
    Salk Songtower RT speakers
    Audio Van Alstine preamp and amp

    Shop:
    Swans

    Wife's Bluetooth speaker:
    Audioengine B2

    Desktop:
    160GB Ipod (Old)
    Nuforce DAC / Amp
    Ortofone headphones

    Car - Previous system (currently just have upgraded coaxial speakers with lots of sound deadening)
    Mids - Image Dynamics
    Horns - Image Dynamics
    Subs - Image Dynamics
    Processor - Alpine
    Head unit - Alpine
    Amps - Alpine - Separate amps for horns, mids, and subs

    Yardwork / Mowing:
    Etymotic IEM

    Mountain Biking:
    Aftershokz Bluetooth (not the best sound quality, but these allow me to hear everything on the trail)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-20160530_180613.jpg  

    Last edited by coke; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:04 AM.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    PM me if anyone has any vintage Marantz or Sansui (or comparable) receivers they'd want to sell/part with/give away.
    My dad had a very nice Sansui receiver from the 70's (I think he paid over $700 in the 70s). Very clean sound, and lots of power. When I was younger and trying to learn about amplifiers, I read about bridging to get more power. Being fairly ignorant at the time, I took the two + outputs and tied them together, and the two - outputs and tied them together. My dad wasn't too happy that I let the smoke out of one of his most prized possessions lol.

    He was supportive of my curiosity though, and my interest in audio eventually lead me to becoming an EE.

  39. #139
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    It is very important to me. I've gone from surround to 2.1 recently. Best move ever, for me and my set up. I'm running 2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607(pre), Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Tributaries Optical, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Rotel RDV 1045 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII and Android MXQ Amlogic S805 Media player. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Rotel 1075, Polk Patio 25x4, MIT AVT3 ICs.

    At work I run FLAC through my phone into a Fiio Kunlun into my Grado SR125e.
    So yes, it is important to me.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    I've gone from surround to 2.1 recently. Best move ever, for me and my set up.
    In what way?

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    It is very important to me. I've gone from surround to 2.1 recently. Best move ever, for me and my set up. I'm running 2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607(pre), Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Tributaries Optical, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Rotel RDV 1045 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII and Android MXQ Amlogic S805 Media player. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Rotel 1075, Polk Patio 25x4, MIT AVT3 ICs.

    At work I run FLAC through my phone into a Fiio Kunlun into my Grado SR125e.
    So yes, it is important to me.
    For a majority of music, I do 2.0 with just a DAC, preamp, and amp. Full range speakers with plenty of power is normally all that's needed.

    For music I want extra loud or if it's music that needs an emphasized low end, I'll do 2.1 and let my subs help with bass.

    For most movies, I'll do 3.1 (just haven't got around to wire up my surround speakers).

    Eventually I want to upgrade to a receiver that will let me do 5.2 since I have two subs and would like the ability to tune and each separately.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    Eventually I want to upgrade to a receiver that will let me do 5.2 since I have two subs and would like the ability to tune and each separately.
    That's not necessarily an upgrade.

    The more channels you have the harder it gets to get each one right. The more speakers, the hard it is to integrate them properly. I remember years ago being in the house of a guy who had two subs. After a bit of fiddling I pointed out to him that the music was far tighter and more coherent with both of them switched off...

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    In what way?
    Our new house was not conducive to surround. The back of the family room opens up to the kitchen and eat in kitchen. So I replaced my 5.1 with two fronts, got rid of the centre speaker to accommodate a turn table. All my surround gear went to the basement to power the pool and gazebo speakers. So for me, it was the best move, I couldn't set them up properly and I didn't want massive bookshelves hooked up high on the wall. Now that I have my system dialed in just perfectly I can still get some surround effects from my two fronts. It travels to about almost 180deg. from the fronts. So not only did I ditch a decent set of speakers for much better ones, it's also cleaner and visually/audibly much better.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    That's not necessarily an upgrade.

    The more channels you have the harder it gets to get each one right. The more speakers, the hard it is to integrate them properly. I remember years ago being in the house of a guy who had two subs. After a bit of fiddling I pointed out to him that the music was far tighter and more coherent with both of them switched off...
    He obviously did not have his subs set up properly in the room. SVS website has some good tips on placing two subs as do many a/v forums. Playing with placement and phase will have a big impact. I use my sub all the time music and movies. I like that it takes the load off my mains and provides a nice bottom end. You can't tell I have a sub in the room.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    That's not necessarily an upgrade.

    The more channels you have the harder it gets to get each one right. The more speakers, the hard it is to integrate them properly. I remember years ago being in the house of a guy who had two subs. After a bit of fiddling I pointed out to him that the music was far tighter and more coherent with both of them switched off...
    With subs specifically, it can be easier to get a flatter response with more of them placed in different locations of the room.

    Some processors and receivers now also have the ability to automatically and independently tune subs, which makes integrating multiple subs much easier than it used to be.

  46. #146
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    is this ok?

    do you think its important to have a good "stereo"?-img_20171006_065906.jpg
    I used to see a lot of UFO's. However I just realized I'm simply bad at identifying things.

  47. #147
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    Whoop! Whoop! I just re-foamed my first speaker! The foam is not quite centered perfectly, and I got some glue on the cone, but it sounds fine, and the voice coil seems centered.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    He obviously did not have his subs set up properly in the room.
    No, not at all, but the problems run deeper than that.

    If you think about how sound propagates from the source, to reproduce or mimic that at home ideally you want all of the sound coming from the same place. With subs and surround systems you have multiple potential problems.

    You have sound coming from different places, for example you can have the fundamentals and harmonics of the bass guitar coming from different places. They can arrive at your ear out of time with each other and the rest of the music. Also, because the sub and upper speaker are of totally different construction and are in different parts of the room they can and usually do have different sonic characters. Imagine two different people singing the same tune.

    The net result is that the tightest, most musically coherent systems usually just have a pair of stereo speakers. A system with subs can get close but they rarely do and they can never beat them.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Whoop! Whoop! I just re-foamed my first speaker!
    Well done! What you're supposed to do is cut out the dust-cap and shim the voice coil in place but you can centre the coil by hand, although it's pretty tricky ;0) Nice feeling of satisfaction saving a speaker like that eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    is this ok?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The kitchen is ;0)

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    No, not at all, but the problems run deeper than that.

    If you think about how sound propagates from the source, to reproduce or mimic that at home ideally you want all of the sound coming from the same place. With subs and surround systems you have multiple potential problems.

    You have sound coming from different places, for example you can have the fundamentals and harmonics of the bass guitar coming from different places. They can arrive at your ear out of time with each other and the rest of the music. Also, because the sub and upper speaker are of totally different construction and are in different parts of the room they can and usually do have different sonic characters. Imagine two different people singing the same tune.

    The net result is that the tightest, most musically coherent systems usually just have a pair of stereo speakers. A system with subs can get close but they rarely do and they can never beat them.



    Well done! What you're supposed to do is cut out the dust-cap and shim the voice coil in place but you can centre the coil by hand, although it's pretty tricky ;0) Nice feeling of satisfaction saving a speaker like that eh?



    The kitchen is ;0)
    I used the Simply Speakers shimless method, and the coil centering is perfect.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I used the Simply Speakers shimless method, and the coil centering is perfect.
    Yeah, takes a while though eh? ;0) My son has a fifteen-inch driver he's putting a new surround on just now. I've had a play with it and, so far, I can't get it to centre. I don't know what the story is but I think it's going to be tricky.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    I'm cursed with the ability to discern good stereos from bad. Just like mountain bikes, once you experience the benefits of high quality equipment, it's hard to go back to the cheap stuff.

    For 2 channel music, I don't use any sound processing, and try to tune the sound with room treatments (Gik). For movies, I'll let my receiver do its magic

    Main stereo:
    Salk HT2-TL Speakers
    Audio Van Alstine fetvalve preamp and amps
    Eastern electric DAC
    Marantz receiver for movies
    2 Powersound 15" subs for movies

    Bedroom:
    Salk Songtower RT speakers
    Audio Van Alstine preamp and amp

    Shop:
    Swans

    Wife's Bluetooth speaker:
    Audioengine B2

    Desktop:
    160GB Ipod (Old)
    Nuforce DAC / Amp
    Ortofone headphones

    Car - Previous system (currently just have upgraded coaxial speakers with lots of sound deadening)
    Mids - Image Dynamics
    Horns - Image Dynamics
    Subs - Image Dynamics
    Processor - Alpine
    Head unit - Alpine
    Amps - Alpine - Separate amps for horns, mids, and subs

    Yardwork / Mowing:
    Etymotic IEM

    Mountain Biking:
    Aftershokz Bluetooth (not the best sound quality, but these allow me to hear everything on the trail)

    Just an observation, I think your mains need to spaced apart some more. You'll get a much wider soundstage then toe them in too. Looks good btw.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    I think your mains need to spaced apart some more. You'll get a much wider soundstage then toe them in too.
    I've never been a fan of toeing in speakers. It depends on what you are trying to achieve and why.

    People often chase goals which have nothing to do with musicality and can actually hurt musicality. For example, most Hi-Fi systems are capable of providing pin-point 'imagery', the sense of very accurate positioning of the different elements within the mix. It's a cool effect and when you hear an improvement in imagery you immediately assume the system is better. But super-accurate imagery like that does not exist in the real world and the reason is doesn't is important.

    If someone hits a real cymbal the sound goes in all directions. If you are listening to it from say ten-feet away you will hear the direct sound from it and also the reflected sound that bounces off the walls and any other surface around it. It's this defuse nature that gives sound it's richness and makes music 'fill' a room.

    It also makes it impossible to pinpoint exactly where the source of the sound is as this information is blurred by reflected sound.

    A Hi-Fi can give pinpoint imagery by cutting down on reflected sound and using a driver configuration that is very directional. These types of system typically have a 'hot-seat' where they sound 'right' with the speakers pointing straight at your head. I hate them as the results, which are impressive from a 'hi-fi' perspective, sound nothing like real music. You are left with a thin, cardboard cut-out that you watch rather like a TV rather than having the music leap out and grab you.

    All Hi-Fi systems can be set up to favour certain elements of reproduction over others and toeing in speakers virtually always improves imagery at the expense of musicality. There are exceptions, for example when the speakers are too far apart and there is a big hole on the sound, but other than that, toeing in is usually bad.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    Just an observation, I think your mains need to spaced apart some more. You'll get a much wider soundstage then toe them in too. Looks good btw.
    Thanks, they have a custom burled walnut finish

    I haven't had a chance to fine tune the placement, but the spacing is a little deceiving. The TV is a 70" so the speakers are a little wider than they appear, and I also don't sit quite back as far as it looks in the picture.

    In previous setups, I did a lot of experimentation and was able to dial in speaker placement for the perfect sound. Now that I have 2 dogs that like to run and play in the living room, I have to use my subs as barricades lol

  54. #154
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    My separates have long been replaced by a Home Theater set up. My current Home Theater system doesn't see a lot of music. On occasion, I will play one of the handful of DVD-Audio encoded DVDs I have or maybe a DVD/Blu-Ray concert, (such as Led Zeppelin's Celebration Day). My Yamaha receiver does have an iPod dock that I will, on occasion, insert the ancient iPod which contains my entire music library of 10,000+ songs.

    My turntable and reel-too-reel have been relegated to the basement with my old (1996) Dolby ProLogic HT receiver, but sadly, I rarely sit and chill with vinyl or tape these days. MAN I MISS THAT! I've been a music junkie since I was a tyke, instilled in me by an audiophile Dad and much older brothers with great records. I don't consider myself an audiophile, just a junkie, because I couldn't live without it!

    All that said, it's important to me to have a quality home theater set up. My friends and my kids' friends love to come over and watch anything at our house. They love when the helicopter flies through the room and the explosions rattle the walls. It's not a dedicated theater, it's in our living room, so it's used daily for news, sports, TV and movies.

    I listen to music in the car every day. I thoroughly enjoy every second of it. I have a Jeep Wrangler with a crap stock stereo playing songs off my iPhone through a $12 Bluetooth receiver, and I don't believe there is anyone who enjoys listening to music more than I do, no matter what system they are listening on.
    AreBee

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arebee View Post
    I rarely sit and chill with vinyl or tape these days. MAN I MISS THAT!
    Yeah, when I was young that was a thing. You are your mates would get a bunch of albums and just sit around taking turns to play what you liked.

    Nowadays music is just on in the background usually.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Yeah, when I was young that was a thing. You are your mates would get a bunch of albums and just sit around taking turns to play what you liked.

    Nowadays music is just on in the background usually.
    Without a doubt! And when a new album release was on the horizon, we'd decide in advance where we were going to listen to it first. It was and EVENT!
    AreBee

  57. #157
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    Every Friday or Saturday night we make a point of listening to music with a bottle of red. During winter is usually when the lps come out and I start buying more. Summer time we are usually outside by the pool with music playing but I'm certainly not going in every 20 mins to flip over a record.
    We even have listening time with the kids. Not kids music either, sometimes classical, some times rock or jazz. My son knew all the words to riders on the storm at the age of 4.
    In the car we say what do you want to listen to? They pick on the way to school and sing along.

    We don't just use it as background. If it's on its to listen to. Unless we are having a party or swimming.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    Summer time we are usually outside by the pool with music playing but I'm certainly not going in every 20 mins to flip over a record.
    Heck, right now I'm not listening to the REM cd that's in the player because the remote is too far away! It's about three-feet out of reach ;0)

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Heck, right now I'm not listening to the REM cd that's in the player because the remote is too far away! It's about three-feet out of reach ;0)
    I hear you. Even cds are a pain compared to streaming music. Which most times comes at a loss of quality.

    Do you remember when we had to get up to change the channels on the TV..... What would today's kids do!? Probably not watch as much as they do....

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowbeast View Post
    Do you remember when we had to get up to change the channels on the TV.....
    Ha ha, yeah I do actually! I remember the first TV we got that had remote control. The remote only had two buttons, one for channel up and one for channel down. Pretty funny as we only had three TV channels at that point ;0) The remote was not infrared, it was ultrasonic so if someone jangled keys or coins it would change the channel.

    I'd still fairly stone-age. My amplifier does not have a remote and I don't have any way of listening to digital files though the stereo. Vinyl and CD is all it plays. The CD player has full digital inputs too, I've just never gotten into this streamy malarkey.

    Literally just now received a mail from a friend saying he's created an account for me to access his music on-line. I have no idea what to do with that information ;0)

  61. #161
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    By the way, quick recommendation.

    Aubrey Logan - Impossible. It's her debut solo album and it's very good. I have it on vinyl and it's unusually well produced for a vinyl album these days. Mostly good songs and her usual stunning vocals.

  62. #162
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    I am having a bunch o' fun with MP3s right now! As I stated in another thread; I've got a car stereo with a USB port. I've ripped about 175 of my CDs to my PC hard drive and now I'm after more at the public library! I just add/delete the files on a USB thumb drive depending on what I think I might like for the day or week or whatever. It's not like it's hard or takes a long time to change it up on a whim. So much better than trying to load individual CDs into a player in your car.

    I'm able to listen to music I'd never buy and I'm finding some really good stuff from bands I never knew I would've liked!
    American Idle

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I'm able to listen to music I'd never buy and I'm finding some really good stuff from bands I never knew I would've liked!
    Just a pity it all sounds like shite eh? ;0)

  64. #164
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    As I get older the less I care about sound quality, it sounds just fine to me. Or maybe I just don't know how good it could sound...

    Sometimes ignorance really is bliss!
    American Idle

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Or maybe I just don't know how good it could sound...
    Or maybe modern hardware really has good DAC software built in these days, and you really can't tell the difference between your CDs and your digital files.
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt II here

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Or maybe modern hardware really has good DAC software built in these days, and you really can't tell the difference between your CDs and your digital files.
    Most people can't tell the difference, but it's not because it's all good...

  67. #167
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    I can hear the difference when I get ahold of a "lo-res" digital file, like a you tube download.
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
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  68. #168
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    How about a record burned onto a CD, and then converted to MP3? Playing: 02 Track 2.mp3 - picosong
    American Idle

  69. #169
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    Played with the right hardware, it still sounds 98% as good as right off the vinyl.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Played with the right hardware, it still sounds 98% as good as right off the vinyl.
    I think it's been further degraded thru picosong.
    American Idle

  71. #171
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    Maybe the audio stream. What about the file, though?

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Maybe the audio stream. What about the file, though?
    I guess the file sounds better. It is the same size as it is on the CD.
    American Idle

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