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  1. #151
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    My favorite Conspiracy Theory that I think is completely stupid and holds no water is, Sept 11, 2001 being carried out by the US government.

    The most recent conspiracy theory that I think has some merit to it (not 100%, but some good points) is the Sandy Hook cinspiracy. My biggest problem/issue is which weapons were used. Inital report was 1 rifle, 2 handguns on him. Then the reports said 4 handungs on person and 1 rifle in car, with apparent video evidence of police removing the rifle from the trunk. But after that first day or two, all talk has been about the Bushmaster rifle "assault weapon" that Adam Lanza used to shoot all of the victims. So was it in the car, or on his person. Did he use the rifle to shoot everyone, or were the handguns used at all?
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    My favorite Conspiracy Theory that I think is completely stupid and holds no water is, Sept 11, 2001 being carried out by the US government.

    The most recent conspiracy theory that I think has some merit to it (not 100%, but some good points) is the Sandy Hook cinspiracy. My biggest problem/issue is which weapons were used. Inital report was 1 rifle, 2 handguns on him. Then the reports said 4 handungs on person and 1 rifle in car, with apparent video evidence of police removing the rifle from the trunk. But after that first day or two, all talk has been about the Bushmaster rifle "assault weapon" that Adam Lanza used to shoot all of the victims. So was it in the car, or on his person. Did he use the rifle to shoot everyone, or were the handguns used at all?
    not a conspiracy. shoddy reporting.

  3. #153
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    My conspiracy is that Tone's thread is trying to be replaced

    Conspiracy Theories ?

  4. #154
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    You were right already existed. So bumping it and adding to it.

    As an architect, I often get asked my opinion/told about the Sept11th towers and how they couldn't have been brought down by a airplane but it had to be explosives. A lot times they throw in the fact that the Empire States building was hit by a plane and it was hardly damaged at all.

    As an architect, I usually say that I am an architect and not a structural engineer but having read the structural engineering report on why they fell I am content in their findings and believe that it is credible.

    Still their websites are hilarious, especially the videos produced. They have gotten better over the years but still are seriously corny.
    Try this: HTFU

  5. #155
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    Shoddy reporting is only the start of the problem. There is still no official answer as to which weapons were on the suspect when he took the easy way out.
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    My favorite Conspiracy Theory that I think is completely stupid and holds no water is, Sept 11, 2001 being carried out by the US government.
    oh it's waaaaaaay beyond stupid, ignorant, moronic x 10........the fact some human nutjobs actually believe it is the worst.
    plus+, plus+ = win:

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    Shoddy reporting is only the start of the problem. There is still no official answer as to which weapons were on the suspect when he took the easy way out.
    Or maybe police and investigators aren't releasing certain details so as to not compromise their investigation.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  8. #158
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    What is left to investigate? All the details they could spill got released to the mainstream media as quickly as possible. They have the investigation locked up. 20 year old Adam Lanza acted on his own in killin ghis mom, and then killing 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary with a rifle that was found in the trunk of his mom's car.

    I think the main driving factor behind this being such a believable conspiracy is that you can't trust the media to tell the truth these days. They are so quick to push info out that they either get it wrong, or straight out lie (I made a thread about this topic in OC a few weeks ago).

    Just look at all the errors from the very beginning. At first it was Ryan Lanza and at least 1 other shooter. They said Ryan was 24 years old and then 20, before finding out Adam Lanza was the shooter. Then it was 24 year old Adam. Oh wait, he's 20, so it's 20 year old Adam Lanza, and his brother may be involved. Oh nevermind, his brother was far away at work, and no there are no other accomplices. This was all within the first 3-4 hours after the shooting.
    How would you like to be Ryan? His name is forever linked to Sandy Hook. Not because of his brother's actions, but because the media was so quick to throw his name out as the shooter first.
    Adam's mother was a kindergarten teacher at that school, and he shot up her class. The school nurse said she was a wonderful teacher. Oh wait, nevermind, she never taught at that school.
    The lies and errors are so numerous, it's hard not question the "facts" as given.
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    As an architect, I often get asked my opinion/told about the Sept11th towers and how they couldn't have been brought down by a airplane but it had to be explosives. A lot times they throw in the fact that the Empire States building was hit by a plane and it was hardly damaged at all.

    As an architect, I usually say that I am an architect and not a structural engineer but having read the structural engineering report on why they fell I am content in their findings and believe that it is credible.
    over 1,500 architects and engineers do not share your contentment in the official story. linky

    in contrast to the "official report" larry silverstein (lease holder of the wtc) stated on camera in a PBS documentary that a few hours after the towers fell he gave the order for building 7 (which was NOT hit by an airplane and had only small isolated fires of unknown/unexplained origin) to be "pulled" - a term for a controlled demolition. although "pulling a building" (especially a 47 story high rise) generally takes weeks to plan, prepare for, set up, and finally execute they managed to pull it off with surgical precision in less than 6 hours.

    one of the main architects who designed the towers stated in an on-camera interview that the towers were designed and built to absorb the impact of a fully loaded/fueled jumbo jet at speed, and that there is absolutely no way those impacts could have brought the towers down.

    just sayin...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    one of the main architects who designed the towers stated in an on-camera interview that the towers were designed and built to absorb the impact of a fully loaded/fueled jumbo jet at speed, and that there is absolutely no way those impacts could have brought the towers down.
    Yeah, and they survived the impact. It was the subsequent fire that was the unanticipated problem for the particular design of the towers.
    Last edited by PerfectZero; 01-25-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    over 1,500 architects and engineers do not share your contentment in the official story. linky

    in contrast to the "official report" larry silverstein (lease holder of the wtc) stated on camera in a PBS documentary that a few hours after the towers fell he gave the order for building 7 (which was NOT hit by an airplane and had only small isolated fires of unknown/unexplained origin) to be "pulled" - a term for a controlled demolition. although "pulling a building" (especially a 47 story high rise) generally takes weeks to plan, prepare for, set up, and finally execute they managed to pull it off with surgical precision in less than 6 hours.

    one of the main architects who designed the towers stated in an on-camera interview that the towers were designed and built to absorb the impact of a fully loaded/fueled jumbo jet at speed, and that there is absolutely no way those impacts could have brought the towers down.

    just sayin...

    What perfect zero said is more the truth. They weren't taken down by the airplanes perse, the velocity of the airplane coupled with the fuel load created a situation where the initial impact blew the fireproofing off the suspended floor supporting beams which at that era consisted of blow on lightweight fireproofing. The subsequent fire created a situation where the steel, unprotected at its point of maximum moment began to sag. With construction systems like this once, you get a single failure it increases the load of the remaining structural elements. If any others fail due to the heat you get again increasing loads on the the remaining until you get systematic failure due to either asymmetrical loading on the floor plates or total failure of the remaining beams.

    the thing that gets me is if you watched the video you see he building initially fail at the point of impact. If the building was brought down by other means it means the terrorists/conspirators had to arm the building in that region and the terrorist flying the planes needed to hit that particular set of floors at over 400mph flying planes through the manhattan skyline. That is a ludicrously insane set of ifs.

    If have seen the videos, the brick on the steel cage, etc but frankly I believe the fire engineers and structural engineers a lot more than I do a bunch of people on the internet. The great thing about conspiracies is that you can always find some crazy people that will follow them and it usual spreads across the entire breadth of society, just look at Scientology. So the fact that some engineers and architects (whom on a whole are usually a pretty structurally/engineeringly deficient bunch of people) support the notion that the buildings were brought down isn't a surprise. Just because people support the notion doesn't make it true. Until I see peer approved structural calcs that show that this couldn't have happened I will believe the ones that showed it did.

    To quote Neil deGrasse Tyson "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it".
    Try this: HTFU

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    What perfect zero said is more the truth. They weren't taken down by the airplanes perse, the velocity of the airplane coupled with the fuel load created a situation where the initial impact blew the fireproofing off the suspended floor supporting beams which at that era consisted of blow on lightweight fireproofing. The subsequent fire created a situation where the steel, unprotected at its point of maximum moment began to sag. With construction systems like this once, you get a single failure it increases the load of the remaining structural elements. If any others fail due to the heat you get again increasing loads on the the remaining until you get systematic failure due to either asymmetrical loading on the floor plates or total failure of the remaining beams.

    the thing that gets me is if you watched the video you see he building initially fail at the point of impact. If the building was brought down by other means it means the terrorists/conspirators had to arm the building in that region and the terrorist flying the planes needed to hit that particular set of floors at over 400mph flying planes through the manhattan skyline. That is a ludicrously insane set of ifs.

    If have seen the videos, the brick on the steel cage, etc but frankly I believe the fire engineers and structural engineers a lot more than I do a bunch of people on the internet. The great thing about conspiracies is that you can always find some crazy people that will follow them and it usual spreads across the entire breadth of society, just look at Scientology. So the fact that some engineers and architects (whom on a whole are usually a pretty structurally/engineeringly deficient bunch of people) support the notion that the buildings were brought down isn't a surprise. Just because people support the notion doesn't make it true. Until I see peer approved structural calcs that show that this couldn't have happened I will believe the ones that showed it did.

    To quote Neil deGrasse Tyson "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it".
    I agree with Crusher here, theres no way there is a conspiracy here, the heat of the fire bought them down, people are desperate to make a conspiracy out of anything these days, im the biggest cynic in the world, but these towers were not bought down by anything else than the intense heat, it would have taken a lot longer than it did in planning and execution to bring them down, and in the 1/1000000 chance they were it would have leaked by now, but id bet my house in an instant on there being no conspiracy here..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    over 1,500 architects and engineers do not share your contentment in the official story. linky

    in contrast to the "official report" larry silverstein (lease holder of the wtc) stated on camera in a PBS documentary that a few hours after the towers fell he gave the order for building 7 (which was NOT hit by an airplane and had only small isolated fires of unknown/unexplained origin) to be "pulled" - a term for a controlled demolition. although "pulling a building" (especially a 47 story high rise) generally takes weeks to plan, prepare for, set up, and finally execute they managed to pull it off with surgical precision in less than 6 hours.

    one of the main architects who designed the towers stated in an on-camera interview that the towers were designed and built to absorb the impact of a fully loaded/fueled jumbo jet at speed, and that there is absolutely no way those impacts could have brought the towers down.

    just sayin...
    hogwash is my friendliest reply for any of this. pure unadulterated speculation by the main architect.
    plus+, plus+ = win:

  14. #164
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    the term "pulled" is something totally different in my home
    as in
    Who pulled daddies finger ?
    it is a form of controlled demolition
    just not professional
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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post
    the term "pulled" is something totally different in my home
    as in
    Who pulled daddies finger ?
    it is a form of controlled demolition
    just not professional
    not carried out with surgical precision??

  16. #166
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    This one is entertaining, and kind of trippy too:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a2g-qvloXns" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Kubrick faking the moon landing, and letting us know through The Shining.

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  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh
    My favorite Conspiracy Theory that I think is completely stupid and holds no water is, Sept 11, 2001 being carried out by the US government.
    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty
    oh it's waaaaaaay beyond stupid, ignorant, moronic x 10........the fact some human nutjobs actually believe it is the worst.
    yeah, cuz the gubment would never lie to us or allow citizens to be harmed just to get us into war.... right?

    false flag operations and the hegelian dialectic are two of the oldest tricks in the books and nothing new. nero used them against the christians. hitler against the jews.

    some of the greater false flag and hegelian dialectics in u.s. history:

    *gulf of tonkin - u.s. fired first on vietnamese vessels on august 2 rather than the other way around as reported. the august 4 "attack" against the u.s. never even happened. it was a complete lie. this two-fold "act of aggression" incident was used to usher us into the vietnam war.

    *pearl harbor - the u.s. had long since broken japanese codes and knew well in advance of the attack yet did not warn pearl harbor but instead let the attack occur knowing there would be incredible carnage and loss of life that would justify declaring war against japan. in fact, many ships were brought to berth in the harbor on orders by the very upper brass who knew an attack was imminent. explain that one away...

    "give 'em hell" harry merely wanted to stimulate the economy and have an excuse to drop the bomb to see what it would do.

    he got his wish.

    *first gulf war - after hussein asked permission to wage war against his enemies from the u.s. through their ambassador (to make sure he wasn't attacking an ally of ours) he was told the u.s. did not care about arab quarrels. then after hussein occupied kuwait bush sr. mobilized a coalition of nations to liberate kuwait and crush the newly formed iraqi military power base. on top of that, a media hoax was involved wherein the daughter of a u.s./kuwati ambassador played a nurse on t.v and falsely testified (i.e. perjury) to witnessing iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators in kuwait. we all know how this little trap turned out for hussein...

    *operation northwoods - a plan formed by the u.s. government that was remarkably similar to the events occurring both on and subsequent to 9-11, wherein the gubment proposed sacrificing the lives of innocent u.s. citizens via bombings, false military attacks, sinking our own ships, hijackings, and phony evidence to justify military action against cuba by blaming these things on them. the stated purpose: "The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere." hmmmm... sound familiar?

    amazingly it was APPROVED by the joint chiefs of staff but nixed by jfk.

    a page from operation northwoods, pay special attention to 3(b) which states, "casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation":



    there are others, but those are some of the biggies.

    so yeah, since they've done it repeatedly in the past (and post 9-11) sacrificing countless lives and disregarding it as nothing more than collateral damage it's not inconceivable that the gubment would do something diabolical like that in order to further an agenda.

    let me be clear that i'm not saying who did or didn't do it, i'm simply saying that it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that our gubment had a hand in it.

    curious about the culprit? simply look who had the most to benefit from it and you'll generally find the smoking gun.

    could it perhaps be that the "stupid, ignorant, moronic x10" people are those who are too blind and/or stupid to learn from the past and refuse to see and acknowledge what is right before their eyes? the ones who are good little sheeple bleating all the way to slaughter? (not implying either directly or indirectly either of you fall into this category, simply asking legitimate questions)

    "it is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins." ~ benjamin franklin

    "crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. may your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." ~samuel adams
    Last edited by monogod; 01-29-2013 at 04:11 AM.
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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    To quote Neil deGrasse Tyson "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it".
    couldn't agree more with this. the rest... not so much. why? simple. SCIENCE!

    let's compare the common theories with basic science.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    What perfect zero said is more the truth. They weren't taken down by the airplanes perse, the velocity of the airplane coupled with the fuel load created a situation where the initial impact blew the fireproofing off the suspended floor supporting beams which at that era consisted of blow on lightweight fireproofing. The subsequent fire created a situation where the steel, unprotected at its point of maximum moment began to sag.
    except that 1.) neither the initial fireball nor the subsequent fires burned anywhere near hot enough to make the steel sag/fail; and 2.) didn't burn long enough to make the steel sag/fail.

    jet fuel simply doesn't burn hot enough in an uncontrolled fire to cause weakness in the steel the towers were built with.

    the steel used to build the WTC was UL tested at 3600F and it retained its specification. so it's simply impossible that jet fuel, which burns at less than 600F in an uncontrolled/open burn (which the WTC was) for less than 50 minutes could have weakened/deformed the steel resulting in catastrophic failure/collapse.

    now THAT'S science.

    "jet A" is the same fuel that conventional steel wall heaters burn, yet the steel wall heaters don't melt. all liquid hydrocarbon fuels burn at significantly lower temperatures in an uncontrolled (a.k.a. "open burn" or "dirty burn") than they do in a controlled (a.k.a. "clean burn") burn. jet engines and steel wall heaters utilize a controlled or "clean burn" thereby creating much higher temperatures than an "open" or "dirty" burn such as was the case in the WTC fires. despite this, the jet engines and steel wall heaters don't melt.

    why? are they made of some kind of magical metal? no. "jet A" is simply incapable of burning hot enough to melt or cause deformity to said metals the engines/heaters are constructed of.

    jet fuel will reach a maximum temp of about 1800F in a "controlled" or "clean" burn where it can be regulated with oxygen for an optimal mix (like jet engines and wall heaters). however, this is STILL nowhere near the temperature required to weaken the girders (UL tested to 3600 with no loss of specification) to the point of failure in less than an hour.

    conversely, in a open/dirty/uncontrolled burn such as the WTC office fires after impact hydrocarbons such as kerosene will burn at around 600F, far below the temperature point at which deformation or weakening of the structural steel used in the tower would occur after such a brief burning time.

    one of the few accuracies of the FEMA 911 report was that the jet fuel burned off rapidly in only a few minutes after impact. it went on to say that the fires from the office furniture and carpets were about 560F, and these burned less than an hour.

    so perhaps you can explain to us how a 600F fire can cause steel that retained its specification at SIX TIMES that temperature to fail in less than an hour?

    perhaps you can explain the pools of molten metal in the basement long after the collapse?

    with all due respect i would submit that the claim that a 600F fire burning for less than an hour could cause weakness/deformation to failure in steel rated at 3600 with no spec loss in a building built to hold 5 times its load is simply preposterous and has no basic or fact whatsoever in science.

    other steel framed buildings have burned far hotter and far longer than the towers did without failure. the windsor tower in madrid burned hot and long until only the steel skeleton was left. other steel buildings have burned for days without failure. in fact, to my knowledge WTC 1&2 are the only steel buildings of their type to every to have failed due to fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    With construction systems like this once, you get a single failure it increases the load of the remaining structural elements. If any others fail due to the heat you get again increasing loads on the the remaining until you get systematic failure due to either asymmetrical loading on the floor plates or total failure of the remaining beams.
    the problem with this theory is many fold.

    first of all we have the steel issue discussed above.

    next is the fact that the towers were built to support 5 times their load, a redundant safety feature.

    so this theory might be true IF the fire burned hot enough to weaken/deform the steel -- which it didn't.

    it might be true IF the building support structures weren't redundantly designed taking into account both localized and generalized failure SPECIFICALLY from the impact of a fully loaded and fueled jumbo jet liner at full speed.

    it might be true IF the towers weren't designed to hold FIVE TIMES their structural load, meaning it was well equipped to support any load transferred due to failure in other areas.

    it might be true IF an airplane hitting the building at the 80th floor somehow weakened all the structure beneath it, which it did not do.

    it might be true IF catastrophic girder failure would cause not one but BOTH buildings to fall into themselves at freefall speed directly into the path of most resistance.

    wow... that's a lot of "ludicrously insane ifs".

    however, the towers WERE designed with redundant support to transfer load in the event of localized or even catastrophic failure.

    and the towers WERE designed and built to support five times its load.

    and the steel used was UL rated to 3600 with no loss of spec so a 50 minute fire at 600F wouldn't have begun to have weakened/deformed it.

    nothing personal bro, but simple science debunks your theory.

    additionally, the plane that hit tower 2 did so on the edge of the building. if anything, failure at this impact point would have caused the top of the tower to topple off and fall to the side, similar to cutting a tree. that's simple physics.

    the strength of the tower was in its core along with the exoskeleton. because the fires were clearly not hot enough to cause weakening, sagging, deformity, or failure the only way to bring it down was to completely obliterate the core as well.

    but even if the entire exoskeleton was destroyed, as opposed to relatively small holes in it, it would only cause the destruction of the floors ABOVE this point and would have no bearing or affect on the floors/structure beneath it. it certainly wouldn't be enough damage to cause the entire tower to collapse in upon itself at freefall speed directly into the path of most resistance.

    that's simply impossible and nonsensical to even suggest.

    and even IF the floors began to pancake and fall they would slow as they were falling into the path of most resistance. take out the exoskeleton/core on floor 80 and the top would topple off at an angle and perhaps pancake to a certain extent but it certainly wouldn't cause the tower to simply disintegrate into dust and small pieces and fall in upon itself at freefall speed. when falling into the path of most resistance, as the towers did, there wold be dramatic slowing. again, that's simple physics.

    it's not as though the buildings got substantially heavier when the planes hit. it's not as though all structure below the impact floor suddenly became incapable of supporting its own weight.

    again, simple physics dictate that the tops should have fallen off to the side.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    the thing that gets me is if you watched the video you see he building initially fail at the point of impact.
    at which point you can see the entire building beneath it mysteriously disintegrating and falling in upon itself into the path of most resistance at freefall speed.

    there's a word for that.... "impossible".

    you can also see "squibs" in the lower floors precipitating the global disintegration of the building. something routine in controlled demolitions.

    additionally eyewitness accounts of both civilians and NYFD combined with video footage that can be viewed over and over record multiple explosions as the buildings were coming down. one of the fire fighters described it as "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom - just like a controlled demolition".

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    If the building was brought down by other means it means the terrorists/conspirators had to arm the building in that region and the terrorist flying the planes needed to hit that particular set of floors at over 400mph flying planes through the manhattan skyline. That is a ludicrously insane set of ifs.
    no, it means the entire building could have been set up with the implication that it DIDN'T MATTER where the planes hit.

    the planes could hit anywhere as long as they hit as were simply an excuse to hit the button of a building already set to blow, not the cause.

    look at WTC 2... the plane barely grazed the edge of the building yet it caused the entire building to fall in upon its own footprint along the path of most resistance at freefall speed? you're an architect and you don't find that questionable? really?

    no one, and i mean no one, can explain why both towers fell at freefall speed into their own footprint along the path of most resistance. there is only one rational explanation, like it or not. basic physics and science exclude and debunk any other explanation.

    and it's not so hard to believe that they were already set to blow since WTC 7 also fell into itself via controlled demolition despite having small, sparse fires and not bearing the brunt of a plane hit or anything else that would have cause it to, like both towers, fall into its own footprint at freefall speed into the path of most resistance.

    even less hard to believe when larry silverstein himself stated point blank that he gave the order to pull the tower. pulling a building requires weeks of planning and preparation and cannot be pulled off in less than 8 hours like WTC 7 was.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-jPzAakHPpk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    so we're to believe that something that generally takes weeks of planning and preparation was pulled off in only a couple of hours? really?

    tragically there are people gullible enough to believe it.

    in the light of the obvious along with larry's blatant statement you seriously think this is not a controlled demolition?

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LD06SAf0p9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    If have seen the videos, the brick on the steel cage, etc but frankly I believe the fire engineers and structural engineers a lot more than I do a bunch of people on the internet.
    even if it means the buildings did things that defy all known laws of physics/science?

    wow... that's kinda scary bro.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    So the fact that some engineers and architects (whom on a whole are usually a pretty structurally/engineeringly deficient bunch of people) support the notion that the buildings were brought down isn't a surprise.
    wait... engineers and architects ona whole are "pretty structurally deficient"??? that places you, as an architect, in a poor position to be arguing this.

    just sayin...

    and you're also suggesting that the guy who designed and built the towers is structurally/engineeringly deficient? you're saying that when the guy who built the building disagrees and disputes the "official theory" that he's just another wild-eyed, tin foil hat wearing moran on the interwebs with more time on his hands than sense in his head who's fallen for a specious conspiracy theory?

    really???

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    Just because people support the notion doesn't make it true.
    that goes likewise for your notions as well. perhaps more so since they defy basic laws of physics and science.

    so in reality it doesn't take a tin foil hat to refuse to swallow the pablum of the "official report". just takes simple high school science. and like we both agree... the nice thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not.
    Last edited by monogod; 01-29-2013 at 11:49 AM.
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  19. #169
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    Architecture vs. Engineering.

    Find another structure which uses the Japanese 'exo-skeleton' put to use for the Trade Center, and how using such the structual exterior would compliment the framing of each Tower.

    Each concrete floor had to have been pre-stressed, the fire would have eroded the terminal-ends which are both rubber and steel.


    WTC 7, rationally had some type of FEMA Order implemented after an attempt to destroy the Trade Center in 1993. There being charges inside the building in order to control damage like what happened is a form of Loss Prevention, it may have become routine Inspection and Insurance.

    Those other observations are interesting, they don't truly influence History though. WWII was fought on many fronts and Theatres, Japan flew above and beyond Radar when approaching Naval Station Pearl Harbor. A very small technicality which upsets a balance within the equation.
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    operation northwoods - a plan formed by the u.s. government that was remarkably similar to the events occurring both on and subsequent to 9-11, wherein the gubment proposed sacrificing the lives of innocent u.s. citizens via bombings, false military attacks, sinking our own ships, hijackings, and phony evidence to justify military action against cuba by blaming these things on them. the stated purpose: "The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere." hmmmm... sound familiar?
    It does sound familiar. Sounds like Sandy Hook and the attempt to ban firearms.
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  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post

    just sayin...
    Wow, I might just agree with you on this one on some levels.

    While I believe in coincidence, don't think cheney's personal for profit military complex being perfectly poised for action was one. Maybe it was coincidence that the only buildings of that type to ever collapse both happened within minutes of each other, but building 7? Just can't wrap my mind around that one.
    As an American I can't believe that our government was behind it, but looked the other way?

    Too many things don't add up. Too many things that had never in history happened, happened more than once on the same day. We know with certainty how hot and fast jet fuel burns. It doesn't, and hasn't any other time, collapsed not one but 3 buildings, and vaporized 2 commercial sized passenger jets.

    Sorry, not drinking that cool aid.
    Check out Loose Change, and then Zeitgeist,and Zeitgeist the addendum. While something's in all these free Internet movies are hard to believe, not impossible and surely raises some questions.
    Round and round we go

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    The 9/11 stuff is garbage. I don't trust any gov't official any further than I can throw them, but I've worked for the gov't in many capacities over the years and those half wits couldn't poor piss out of a boot without instructions on the heel. There is no way in hell they could possibly have pulled off something of that kind of magnitude. I have many pilot buddies and all of them have told me the same thing. Those dummies were lucky to even hit the buildings. My uncle that retired from United in the late 90s has said more than once that he probably could not have hit any specific place on the building and he'd have to have very good conditions just to hit the building period. "There's a reason we put those damn things into autopilot shortly after takeoff" he'd say.

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    The Chasm by the Edward Griffin is a quite interesting read as well.

    back OT.

    The Lusitania was set up to be sunk to get the US into WW1.

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    Sandy Hook

    UVioO

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    Who here remembers 'the Naked Gun' w/ OJ Simpson's (supposed) Home Phone, and did anyone ever call the number? Me, I did 4 Years after the Film in 1994.
    For those not old enough -- the Theater Movie end-credits had "OJ Simpson's Home Telephone - ### ### ####" inserted somewhere. 'Naked Gun 2 1/2' Film and DVD has George Foreman's Record in the Boxxing Ring; George Foreman however did not have a longtime and traveled friend in Robert Kardashian. An Attorney then, they sued the film's production company, even fighting for the second-film role in his contract.
    We learned OJ had a Drug Habit (Cocaine) from that Brentwood Double-Murder Trail. It'd explain possible motivation for what became a boneheaded contribution to the Film as he did and then flipping out on the Production Team. The question is - why? and what for??

    Hollywood Conspiracy, upper-tier. Definitely twisted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    If this is true, and Im skeptical
    At what point do drills during disasters stop being coincidence?
    When camera crews in helicopters at Sandy Hook showed police pulling an AR-15 out of the trunk of the suspects car, and the suspect was shot dead inside the school, and the coroner was stating that the kids were shot with an assault rifle, that's what the wounds indicated, and he's too stupid to know the difference in a 5.56mm rifle bullet hole and the damage versus a 9mm or .40" pistol bullet hole and damage and penetration it does, I knew right there and then, the whole thing was a frame job and something really, really stunk about the whole operation and what the media was duping the masses of idiots with as "the news".

    Too many "drills", perhaps such that we need to stop the drills, with all the coincidences. It's always kids and the emotional stigma, that are dying in these drills, they are playing on our heart string with this, the news casters. It's a sign that something is wrong with our government.


    The test bomb at the JFK library, and no one covering that, is an example of how a big diversion like the marathon bombing could mask or hide the real significant event that is going on concurrently.

    One has to wonder if we are being set up and mentally conditioned for another civil war or a take over by the current administration turned dictatorship. I am past the point of trusting the government to do what's best for me or take care of me, they've lost my trust.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    When camera crews in helicopters at Sandy Hook showed police pulling an AR-15 out of the trunk of the suspects car, and the suspect was shot dead inside the school, and the coroner was stating that the kids were shot with an assault rifle, that's what the wounds indicated, and he's too stupid to know the difference in a 5.56mm rifle bullet hole and the damage versus a 9mm or .40" pistol bullet hole and damage and penetration it does, I knew right there and then, the whole thing was a frame job and something really, really stunk about the whole operation and what the media was duping the masses of idiots with as "the news".

    Too many "drills", perhaps such that we need to stop the drills, with all the coincidences. It's always kids and the emotional stigma, that are dying in these drills, they are playing on our heart string with this, the news casters. It's a sign that something is wrong with our government.


    The test bomb at the JFK library, and no one covering that, is an example of how a big diversion like the marathon bombing could mask or hide the real significant event that is going on concurrently.

    Let me get this straight, are you saying that you think the 'authorities' shot kids at Sandy Hook? Did I read that right? Genuine question!
    It's all Here. Now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Let me get this straight, are you saying that you think the 'authorities' shot kids at Sandy Hook? Did I read that right? Genuine question!

    What I say doesn't matter... you can do your own research if you are interested in history... 2 adults ran out the back of the school and into the woods in the Sandy Hook event. A local news helicopter video'd from the air an AR-15 removed from the trunk of the mothers car that the kid drove. Since the rifle was in the trunk, it was not used in the event, handguns were, of a completely different caliber. The coroner talking to the news was an actor, is what I am saying, it was staged,with him saying an assault rifle was used for the shootings and high capacity magazines being changed out. The info is out there, as is the video....
    It is my belief this was a set up to get some rifles with magazines banned by the current administration... Keep in mind, all of these nefarious acts are happening after Obama got elected again... yet Obama did nothing about the Benghazi event shortly before his election, or claim that the perpetrators would be found. Hillary Clinton stated "What difference does it make, 4 people are dead".

    Well, with that attitude, Hillary, there's only 2 dead at this event, and how important are they to the US Government, so at mosts, it's only half as important as Benghazi. Just saying... in terms of perspective and scale.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLNC View Post
    Coincidental. I believe most of the conspiracy theories out there, but if someone called in a bomb threat, what are the police supposed to do? Announce it to the world for mass chaos to ensue WHILE the bombs go off? Or lie to the public to keep calm and say the bomb squad is only on scene for a precautionary "drill" etc. etc. - meanwhile they really were looking for a bomb. If the "authorities" claim for one millisecond that they had prior knowledge to a bomb but were unable to locate and defuse it in time, then the majority of people claim ineptitude and subsequently start listening to Alex Jones that their Gov't is out to get them - or tyranically doesn't care for them. However, plead ignorance and/or stupidity and the majority of people will give them the benefit of the doubt.
    I was at a graduation ceramony where there was a bomb threat, and the entire statdium was completely evacuated until it was found to be safe, which is the right thing to do, although generally I think people who are serious are not going to call in a threat (rudolf did call in his at the olympic park bombing however)

    The bomb was pretty small and had they knew what they were doing or really wanted to that scene could have been like what is typical in Iraq with dozens dead and hundreds wounded, we are very fortunate nothing like that happened here, not that what happened was good by any means, it still is pretty horrible.
    So whoever did it was trying to make a statement and merely trying to get attention. As I mentioned previously the best way to handle these things is not to say the perps name, nor the organization, simply say an organization claimed responsiblity and they will be dealt with accordingly, if they do not get the attention they are craving, eventually they simply give up.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    What I say doesn't matter... you can do your own research if you are interested in history... 2 adults ran out the back of the school and into the woods in the Sandy Hook event. A local news helicopter video'd from the air an AR-15 removed from the trunk of the mothers car that the kid drove. Since the rifle was in the trunk, it was not used in the event, handguns were, of a completely different caliber. The coroner talking to the news was an actor, is what I am saying, it was staged,with him saying an assault rifle was used for the shootings and high capacity magazines being changed out. The info is out there, as is the video....
    It is my belief this was a set up to get some rifles with magazines banned by the current administration... Keep in mind, all of these nefarious acts are happening after Obama got elected again... yet Obama did nothing about the Benghazi event shortly before his election, or claim that the perpetrators would be found. Hillary Clinton stated "What difference does it make, 4 people are dead".

    Well, with that attitude, Hillary, there's only 2 dead at this event, and how important are they to the US Government, so at mosts, it's only half as important as Benghazi. Just saying... in terms of perspective and scale.
    Well, as suggested, I did some research, and I am afraid that even my skeptical mind thinks that conspiracy theories around Sandy Hook are ridiculous. Not one fact that supports the theories, just a lot of speculation that seems to be just another splurge of paranoia designed to do exactly what it purports the supposed conspirators to be doing, only from the opposite standpoint. See what I'm saying?

    I have spent many years involved in some high profile public events, including Olympics opening and closing ceremonies where security is ultra tight, and I have to say that there are sniffer dogs all over the place a lot of the time. I have had it said to me by a dog handler, that the dogs are by no means 100% successful at turning up bombs. We are all fallible, animals included. I have also taken bomb threats by phone on two occasions back when the IRA were active in the UK, and on both occasions the local authority made a thorough search, but without notifying the public and causing a panic, with potential consequences. I do not necessarily agree with that action, or inaction, but that is what the official decision was, based on many such threats.
    It's all Here. Now.

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    on the anniversary of Oklahoma City
    Don't believe everything the main stream media spews. It was not the anniversary of Oklohoma City bombing. April 19th, 1995 is when that happened.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by sodak View Post
    Don't believe everything the main stream media spews. It was not the anniversary of Oklohoma City bombing. April 19th, 1995 is when that happened.
    Actually I wasn't quoting the main stream media. I was quoting internet conspiriacy theorists.

  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    I'll say you're an idiot for even attempting to put words in my mouth.... Got it? I got grilled by an FBI agent seeking the Unabomber, a lead person on the case in the San Francisco / Martino office, in CA. Take it for what it's worth, nothing more, nothing less. MMMMkay? That's a fact.

    One of the guys I used to shoot with, Grant Ashley, retired from the Bureau, maybe you should look him up and see where he is today, in the Security business. Check him out and see how far up the ladder he went in the FBI... Las Vegas and Chicago come to mind, for organized crime, before he retired.
    If you had a point, you missed a great opportunity to make it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob View Post
    If you had a point, you missed a great opportunity to make it.
    I'm discounting your post as a troll. I don't need to make points with you, or anyone else. Our points of view on facts differ, and I'll leave it at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Let me get this straight, are you saying that you think the 'authorities' shot kids at Sandy Hook? Did I read that right? Genuine question!
    Do a YouTube search on this. I'm NOT saying they did, but there are A LOT of discrepancies, curious coincidences, etc.

    For example:
    There is a news helicopter video of two LEO's and dog chasing a guy that ran out of the back of school into the woods. They catch and arrest him but we never hear anything further about this. Who was this guy, why was he running out the back, etc. Why don't they mention this? Seems important to me....

    The car Adam used was supposed to be his Mom's but it was registered to a known felon / drug dealer when the press ran the plates. ?

    The above comment about the cop saying the weapon in the trunk is an AR. From a HELICOPTER video, you can plainly tell it is a shotgun by the way the LEO is handling the weapon, clearing it, etc. You telling me the LEO couldn't tell the difference between an AR and pump shotgun? I'm not buying it.

    There are a lot MORE - watch the videos. They are not conspiracy theories, just some people questioning what was officially said compared to live - on the scene video. A lot of things don't match up.............
    Last edited by dead_dog_canyon; 04-18-2013 at 08:22 AM. Reason: I left out the NOT in the beginning - WOW that was typo.... Changed the whole meaning

  36. #186
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    they said a lot about 911 too, that Bush ordered all those people to die for some agenda. Call him what you will, a dope, idiot, redneck...but i dont think he's a murderer, nor do it think Obama likes ordering the death of kids. Are there govts out there who have special interests and do slimy things? Sure. i just have a hard time believing bush and Obama suddenly became sociopaths and ordered all those deaths. seems extreme. Thats just my opinion, not fact.
    fap

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB View Post
    they said a lot about 911 too, that Bush ordered all those people to die for some agenda. Call him what you will, a dope, idiot, redneck...but i dont think he's a murderer, nor do it think Obama likes ordering the death of kids. Are there govts out there who have special interests and do slimy things? Sure. i just have a hard time believing bush and Obama suddenly became sociopaths and ordered all those deaths. seems extreme. Thats just my opinion, not fact.
    The NWO conspiracy theory dictates that the "orders" didn't come from them.... they came from 'above' them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    4Chan is all over this.

    A pretty detailed photo gallery of their analysis
    4chan ThinkTank - Imgur
    It's quite clear Obama and the NWO want guns and ammo out of the hands of Americans... Buying up all the ammo so civilians can't get any, 1.6 billion rounds, trying to ban guns and magazines, and now this, they may want to ban powder for reloading any ammuntion too, due to a bomb being made out of it, or a ban on ammuniton all together.

    Coincidental how all of this starts happening after Obama's second election. 4 more years of "change" and "forward".


    This is from your link, lets watch and see how it plays out... http://i.imgur.com/paK3lGJh.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    It's quite clear Obama and the NWO want guns and ammo out of the hands of Americans... Buying up all the ammo so civilians can't get any, 1.6 billion rounds, trying to ban guns and magazines, and now this, they may want to ban powder for reloading any ammuntion too, due to a bomb being made out of it, or a ban on ammuniton all together.

    Coincidental how all of this starts happening after Obama's second election. 4 more years of "change" and "forward".


    This is from your link, lets watch and see how it plays out... http://i.imgur.com/paK3lGJh.png
    I saw that screen capture, and while it might be a bit off topic ... It's a theory that when coupled with all the related events of the past many years, seems as valid as any other possibility.

    Then again,
    Speculations suck.

    4chan could be considered a theory running wild ... Yet it could also be just as valid as the words in that image.

  40. #190
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    I moved all the conspiracy theory stuff to this thread.
    Try this: HTFU

  41. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Well, as suggested, I did some research, and I am afraid that even my skeptical mind thinks that conspiracy theories around Sandy Hook are ridiculous. Not one fact that supports the theories, just a lot of speculation that seems to be just another splurge of paranoia designed to do exactly what it purports the supposed conspirators to be doing, only from the opposite standpoint. See what I'm saying?

    I have spent many years involved in some high profile public events, including Olympics opening and closing ceremonies where security is ultra tight, and I have to say that there are sniffer dogs all over the place a lot of the time. I have had it said to me by a dog handler, that the dogs are by no means 100% successful at turning up bombs. We are all fallible, animals included. I have also taken bomb threats by phone on two occasions back when the IRA were active in the UK, and on both occasions the local authority made a thorough search, but without notifying the public and causing a panic, with potential consequences. I do not necessarily agree with that action, or inaction, but that is what the official decision was, based on many such threats.
    Agreed Rocko 100%, next thing we will be hearing is the holocaust where millions of jews were killed was a conspiracy, theres a conspiracy for everything these days.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I moved all the conspiracy theory stuff to this thread.
    What if the recent stuff becomes fact

    Anything is possible in current times

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    What if the recent stuff becomes fact

    Anything is possible in current times
    Once we prove any conspiracy theory as fact and not the ramblings of lonely men with nothing better to do but see evil in everything and beauty and compassion in nothing we can start a new thread about the dissolution of human kind, but until that happens we can leave them here.
    Try this: HTFU

  44. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    Once we prove any conspiracy theory as fact and not the ramblings of lonely men with nothing better to do but see evil in everything and beauty and compassion in nothing we can start a new thread about the dissolution of human kind, but until that happens we can leave them here.
    Sounds fair.

    Personally, I stay out of threads like this for a reason.

    Far to much animosity, and gang mentality exists, if one Pee's in another's Cheerios.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    I saw that screen capture, and while it might be a bit off topic ... It's a theory that when coupled with all the related events of the past many years, seems as valid as any other possibility.

    Then again,
    Speculations suck.

    4chan could be considered a theory running wild ... Yet it could also be just as valid as the words in that image.
    Time will tell.... BTW, the taking of Osama bin Laden was based on speculation too, that he was there, in that building. Just saying... and one gal in the CIA had it pegged for a couple of years before POTUS finally gave the go ahead in 2011... by stuff put in place by George W Bush, which Obama took all the credit for.

  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB View Post
    they said a lot about 911 too, that Bush ordered all those people to die for some agenda. Call him what you will, a dope, idiot, redneck...but i dont think he's a murderer, nor do it think Obama likes ordering the death of kids. Are there govts out there who have special interests and do slimy things? Sure. i just have a hard time believing bush and Obama suddenly became sociopaths and ordered all those deaths. seems extreme. Thats just my opinion, not fact.
    Consider this, to own a firearm one must go through a background check, to become president of the United States of America the current Potus stomped his feet on even being challenged on his birth certificate, yet he has command over a Nuclear Arsenal.
    Why is it so wrong to question and verify any politician? Would that not be to the peoples best interest?

    I only know what is.....

    Secret ‘Kill List’ Proves a Test of Obama’s Principles and Will
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/wo...aeda.html?_r=0

    Drone strikes kill, maim and traumatize too many civilians, U.S. study says - CNN.com

    "The study by Stanford Law School and New York University's School of Law calls for a re-evaluation of the practice, saying the number of "high-level" targets killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low -- about 2%."

    Bush flat out lied about the war, and even said "god" told him to do it.
    George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq' | World news | The Guardian

  47. #197
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    war sucks. totally sucks. but civilian casualties are a little bit different than specifically targeting innocent people in a non war setting. i might just step out of this thread, it's not really my "jam". Conspiracy theories are fascinating, but it's kind of like seeing UFOs. it's cool to listen to stories, but there is never good proof.
    fap

  48. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyonadyke View Post
    Time will tell.... BTW, the taking of Osama bin Laden was based on speculation too, that he was there, in that building. Just saying... and one gal in the CIA had it pegged for a couple of years before POTUS finally gave the go ahead in 2011... by stuff put in place by George W Bush, which Obama took all the credit for.
    The CIA monitored Bin Laden and his locations for some four years during the 90s via his cell phone/sat phone, finally a journalist got wind and broke the story, the CIA was then ticked off saying they could no longer monitor him, lets be real, if they were serious, he would have been captured or blown to hell long before.
    However Egypts news paper reported Bins death in 2003 from well you guessed it, complications from kidney disease.

  49. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB View Post
    war sucks. totally sucks. but civilian casualties are a little bit different than specifically targeting innocent people in a non war setting. i might just step out of this thread, it's not really my "jam". Conspiracy theories are fascinating, but it's kind of like seeing UFOs. it's cool to listen to stories, but there is never good proof.
    I agree I have become pretty anti War in the past few years, just do some research yourself, nothing wrong with thinking, everyone should question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Sounds fair.

    Personally, I stay out of threads like this for a reason.

    Far to much animosity, and gang mentality exists, if one Pee's in another's Cheerios.
    Blinders exist everywhere.
    Bikeabuser, lately there isn't a thread on mtbr that you're staying out of. It's quite the marvel really. I roam about in other forums on occassion and there you are. And you're almost always pretending to be the voice of reason. I'm not hating, just saying I'm impressed.

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