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  1. #1
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    Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!!

    I thought all the meat eaters could chime in here and we could bash them for a change! Ha ha!

  2. #2
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    I like a good steak. Bash away..

  3. #3
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    Life without bacon is just not worth living.

    nuff said
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    No need to bash meat eaters, just gloat in the probability of out living them.

  6. #6
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    Do you have a point?

    I still stand behind my original statement of life without bacon isn't worth living.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Do you have a point?

    I still stand behind my original statement of life without bacon isn't worth living.

    Ya, this thread was done with tongue in cheek. Kind of a response to meat eaters bashing vegetarians or vegans. Eat all the bacon you want if that is what floats your boat (or your coffin)

  8. #8
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    Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter. But seriously what is the stance on wild game with no preservatives in it? If preservatives are the reason you don't eat meat would you be willing to eat moose, bear, etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Ya, this thread was done with tongue in cheek.
    duh! What do you think my response is done with?

    And my coffin will float on happiness and clouds of bacon.



    Quote Originally Posted by MadBlackHatter View Post
    Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter. But seriously what is the stance on wild game with no preservatives in it? If preservatives are the reason you don't eat meat would you be willing to eat moose, bear, etc?
    It depends on who you ask.

    Ask the ones who are against killing animals and it is all bad.

    Ask the ones who do it for diet and you will get varying answers.

    However, you can buy plenty of no hormone, no antibiotics, no preservatives meat in the grocery store.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  10. #10
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    Ya that's the usual answers. I'm with you on life with out bacon though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadBlackHatter View Post
    Ya that's the usual answers. I'm with you on life with out bacon though.
    No kidding, I feel sorry for all those who deprive themselves of the yummy tasty goodness bacon.

    I don't know what would be worse, having eaten it and now denying yourself of the delicious delicacy or never to have known the extreme pleasure of having the awesomely savory succulent treat passing your lips?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  12. #12
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    I was a vegetarian for almost 7 years. I switched back to omnivorous diet about 10 years ago. Weight fluctuates quite a bit and I haven't had the chance to work out nearly as much as I would like. I began ketogenic diet a few weeks ago. Lots of bacon, milk, eggs , cheese etc. I lost 15 lbs and 5 percent body fat since then. 2 pants sizes. No BS. I feel better and have consistent energy. So based on that I would say that meat and dairy are not a problem

  13. #13
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    I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
    Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
    Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

    1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
    2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?

    After all, have you ever known a vegan sumo wrestler?
    Ok, maybe bad example since this is a cycling forum. lol

    But seriously, the reason there is so much controversy in diets is not everyone's bodies are made up the same way. Not to mention all of our goals are not the same.

    Some of us just enjoy eating meat and drinking beer but want to go through life without being fat.

    BTW, I have several customers of mine that are knocking on the door of 100 years of age and I would say over 90% of my customers are seniors (I work in a high retirement community) and I don't know of any of them that are vegetarians let alone vegans.
    My oldest is 98 years old and no signs of dying before 100 and is still on the golf course 2-3 times a week, cuts his rather large yard himself and is fairly active regularly. I know he eats meat and still drinks beer.....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
    Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
    Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

    1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
    2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?

    After all, have you ever known a vegan sumo wrestler?
    Ok, maybe bad example since this is a cycling forum. lol

    But seriously, the reason there is so much controversy in diets is not everyone's bodies are made up the same way. Not to mention all of our goals are not the same.

    Some of us just enjoy eating meat and drinking beer but want to go through life without being fat.

    BTW, I have several customers of mine that are knocking on the door of 100 years of age and I would say over 90% of my customers are seniors (I work in a high retirement community) and I don't know of any of them that are vegetarians let alone vegans.
    My oldest is 98 years old and no signs of dying before 100 and is still on the golf course 2-3 times a week, cuts his rather large yard himself and is fairly active regularly. I know he eats meat and still drinks beer.....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?
    I totally get it now. We have several horses and everyone of them has a different diet. Some of the deer on our property are even carnivores! But they all seem to be thriving!
    Still if you do the research the longest lived cultures and people eat a predominately plant based diet.
    You can find examples of people who have trashed their bodies, by poor diet, smoking, drinking etc and have had fairly long lives, BUT chances are they would have lived 10 to 20 years longer with fewer problems if they would have taken care of themselves.
    My mom turned 95 and is dong amazingly well. Two of my sisters and myself have had cancer. Food and the environment has changed and I fear not for the better.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    I totally get it now. We have several horses and everyone of them has a different diet. Some of the deer on our property are even carnivores! But they all seem to be thriving!
    What is your point?
    I have had plenty of snakes throughout the years all of which ate completely carnivores diets. The deer on my property are not carnivores like your (that is actually kind of scary) but the bear are omnivores and all seem to be happy.

    So are you seriously comparing the diets of animals that are designed to eat only plant based diets to humans that are designed to eat an omnivores diet?

    No matter, if I die sooner, I will die happy and hopefully it will be with a strip of bacon in one hand and a beer in the other.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    What is your point?
    I have had plenty of snakes throughout the years all of which ate completely carnivores diets. The deer on my property are not carnivores like your (that is actually kind of scary) but the bear are omnivores and all seem to be happy.

    So are you seriously comparing the diets of animals that are designed to eat only plant based diets to humans that are designed to eat an omnivores diet?

    No matter, if I die sooner, I will die happy and hopefully it will be with a strip of bacon in one hand and a beer in the other.

    I always like when people ask "what is your point??" The point was there in black and white. If I had no point then how could you even respond??
    More food for thought: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    I always like when people ask "what is your point??" The point was there in black and white. If I had no point then how could you even respond??
    More food for thought: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
    No, it wasn't in black and white.

    All you did was throw up giant straw man comparing humans to horses and deer which is just ridiculous.

    So why don't we compare them to carnivorous animals?
    Here are a few lean ones
    Lions, cheetahs, jaguars and leopards.

    And how about a honey badger because like me, he doesn't give a fvck.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  18. #18
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    No, it wasn't in black and white.

    All you did was throw up giant straw man comparing humans to horses and deer which is just ridiculous.

    So why don't we compare them to carnivorous animals?
    Here are a few lean ones
    Lions, cheetahs, jaguars and leopards.

    And how about a honey badger because like me, he doesn't give a fvck.
    Bacon making you grumpy?? I suggest you read the China Study.

  19. #19
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    Yes, bacon makes me very grumpy.....when I don't get it.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yes, bacon makes me very grumpy.....when I don't get it.
    Ha ha!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
    Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
    Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

    1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
    2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?


    After all, have you ever known a vegan sumo wrestler?
    Ok, maybe bad example since this is a cycling forum. lol

    But seriously, the reason there is so much controversy in diets is not everyone's bodies are made up the same way. Not to mention all of our goals are not the same.

    Some of us just enjoy eating meat and drinking beer but want to go through life without being fat.

    BTW, I have several customers of mine that are knocking on the door of 100 years of age and I would say over 90% of my customers are seniors (I work in a high retirement community) and I don't know of any of them that are vegetarians let alone vegans.
    My oldest is 98 years old and no signs of dying before 100 and is still on the golf course 2-3 times a week, cuts his rather large yard himself and is fairly active regularly. I know he eats meat and still drinks beer.....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?

    Ding ding ding!!!
    We have a winner!

    One of the biggest reasons I entered the Health Coaching program I'm in is the focus on bio-individuality. No one diet can work for everyone.
    That being said, I think most of us on this forum would agree that the typical modern American diet is not helping us as a whole. Far too much poor quality meats and highly processed, chemical- and sugar-laden foods.

    We've switched to a predominantly vegetable-based diet, but pure vegan or vegetarian hasn't worked for either of us. We're very careful about what meat we eat, and it's definitely more of a "side dish" for us now.

    Interesting discovery- Ayurvedic doctors (practitioners of traditional, pre-Hindu Indian medicine,) will often write prescriptions for red meat for certain illnesses related to vitamin and protein deficiencies. Neither here nor there as it doesn't really pertain to most of our circumstances. I just found it interesting.

    Los
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Ding ding ding!!!
    We have a winner!

    One of the biggest reasons I entered the Health Coaching program I'm in is the focus on bio-individuality. No one diet can work for everyone.
    That being said, I think most of us on this forum would agree that the typical modern American diet is not helping us as a whole. Far too much poor quality meats and highly processed, chemical- and sugar-laden foods.

    We've switched to a predominantly vegetable-based diet, but pure vegan or vegetarian hasn't worked for either of us. We're very careful about what meat we eat, and it's definitely more of a "side dish" for us now.

    Interesting discovery- Ayurvedic doctors (practitioners of traditional, pre-Hindu Indian medicine,) will often write prescriptions for red meat for certain illnesses related to vitamin and protein deficiencies. Neither here nor there as it doesn't really pertain to most of our circumstances. I just found it interesting.

    Los
    Certainly cutting down on meat (particularly lot raised meat) is good. Most people get way too much protein. In fact drinking too much milk strips the body of calcium, the very thing people drink milk for. Watch "forks over knives" for a more detailed description of how this works.

    Our present western diet is making us sick and fat and causing health care costs to go through the roof. I just wonder what the life expectancy of our children will be??

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Certainly cutting down on meat (particularly lot raised meat) is good. Most people get way too much protein. In fact drinking too much milk strips the body of calcium, the very thing people drink milk for. Watch "forks over knives" for a more detailed description of how this works.

    Our present western diet is making us sick and fat and causing health care costs to go through the roof. I just wonder what the life expectancy of our children will be??
    There's soooooo much wrong with the milk most people drink!
    "Forks Over Knives" is good, I enjoyed "Food, Inc," and "Food Matters" as well.

    Los
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    No need to bash meat eaters, just gloat in the probability of out living them.
    Please do. The jokes on you. This world is going to **** and you will be stuck in it longer than I will......
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    In fact drinking too much milk strips the body of calcium, the very thing people drink milk for. Watch "forks over knives" for a more detailed description of how this works.
    Actually that's total ********.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    Actually that's total ********.

    Another well presented counterpoint! Ha ha!

    An interesting link: Harvard School of Public Health » The Nutrition Source » Calcium and Milk: What’s Best for Your Bones and Health?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Ding ding ding!!!
    We have a winner!

    One of the biggest reasons I entered the Health Coaching program I'm in is the focus on bio-individuality. No one diet can work for everyone.
    That being said, I think most of us on this forum would agree that the typical modern American diet is not helping us as a whole. Far too much poor quality meats and highly processed, chemical- and sugar-laden foods.

    We've switched to a predominantly vegetable-based diet, but pure vegan or vegetarian hasn't worked for either of us. We're very careful about what meat we eat, and it's definitely more of a "side dish" for us now.

    Interesting discovery- Ayurvedic doctors (practitioners of traditional, pre-Hindu Indian medicine,) will often write prescriptions for red meat for certain illnesses related to vitamin and protein deficiencies. Neither here nor there as it doesn't really pertain to most of our circumstances. I just found it interesting.

    Los
    Oh, no doubt.
    Most red meat is riddled with added hormones, antibiotics, etc. and nobody wants to spend twice as much for the grass fed hormone free and antibiotic free beef. What is more important than not eating meat is where you get it from and the cuts you get.

    Bacon of course is the exception because if you eat enough you will become immortal.

    Of course, I am sure many of these vegetarians and vegans are in for a rude awakening when they realize how much pesticides are on their produce if they are not buying organic. Guess what, crop dusters used to dump chlordane over they fields and that stuff does not go away......ever.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  28. #28
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    Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Oh, no doubt.
    Most red meat is riddled with added hormones, antibiotics, etc. and nobody wants to spend twice as much for the grass fed hormone free and antibiotic free beef. What is more important than not eating meat is where you get it from and the cuts you get.

    Bacon of course is the exception because if you eat enough you will become immortal.

    Of course, I am sure many of these vegetarians and vegans are in for a rude awakening when they realize how much pesticides are on their produce if they are not buying organic. Guess what, crop dusters used to dump chlordane over they fields and that stuff does not go away......ever.
    We're very fortunate here in Boise to have several beef and bison ranches nearby that raise 100% grass-fed meats. They're good people, too. It's nice to be able to have extended conversations with the providers!

    Los
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadBlackHatter View Post
    Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter. But seriously what is the stance on wild game with no preservatives in it? If preservatives are the reason you don't eat meat would you be willing to eat moose, bear, etc?
    What about excess cholesterol, endotoxins, parasitic infestations, pathogenic bacteria, heavy metal poisoning etc?

    ALL animal products are full of these dangerous factors. Even organic animals are not immune. They still have naturally occurring hormones, endotoxins etc.

    Eating wild animals cos they are 'healthier' is like smoking roll up tabacco vs normal cigarettes cos its 'healthier'.

  30. #30
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    All i know is that I top most of the Strava leaderboards in my city of Adelaide Australia and we literally produce more top level riders from all styles than any other city in on EARTH lol!

    Ive been vegan for 12 years. Animal products just makes you sicker and fatter than you would be if you didnt consume em. Bit like a good rider can perform well on a 1998 xc bike BUT will perform even better on the latest technology.

  31. #31
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    Congratulations but most people here are not trying to top strava boards or could care less about topping them. I would say most people here cycle to have fun and/or be a little bit healthier so they can eat more bacon and drink more beer.

    Also, there are plenty of top athletes out there that eat meat.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by durianrider View Post
    All i know is that I top most of the Strava leaderboards in my city of Adelaide Australia and we literally produce more top level riders from all styles than any other city in on EARTH lol!

    Ive been vegan for 12 years. Animal products just makes you sicker and fatter than you would be if you didnt consume em. Bit like a good rider can perform well on a 1998 xc bike BUT will perform even better on the latest technology.
    I'm not even sure how to respond to such an absurd statement.
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadBlackHatter View Post
    Vegetarian is just an old Indian word for bad hunter.
    Ha!

  34. #34
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    "In his book, "Diet for a Poisoned Planet", David Steinman reports that of all the toxic chemicals found in food, 95 to 99 percent come from meat, fish, dairy, and eggs. He also reveals that many of the tests performed don't even detect many chemicals and pesticides. The Food and Drug Administration's own Total Diet Study found that bacon had 48 different pesticide residues, bologna and other luncheon meats had 102 different industrial pollutants and pesticides, fast food hamburgers had 113 residues, hot dogs had 123, and ground beef had 82 industrial chemical and pesticide residues, just to name a few.

    In comparison, meat contains 14 times more pesticides than plant foods, and dairy has 5 times more pesticides than plant foods. The United States alone uses ONE BILLION POUNDS of pesticides every year on our food. That, our pathetic contamination sampling process, and our use of growth hormones has caused the European Economic Community to reject our meat exportations on numerous occasions."


    The problem with meat and dairy are the multiplier effect that it has on toxins. That is why higher level carnivores and fish have so many toxins in their flesh. Better to eat sprayed plants than meat. The toxins in mothers milk is so much greater for those who eat meat and dairy vs. those that don't.

    As far as our Strava friend is concerned he is just illustrating that you can perform at a high level not eating meat.

  35. #35
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    If you want to make sure you have colon and prostate problems you should eat a lot of meat. 100,000 new cases of colon cancer are expected in America this year, causing about 50,000 deaths. With 2/3 of men having prostate cancer by the time they are in their sixties, there will be about 240,000 new cases of prostate cancer in America this year, causing about 30,000 deaths.

    Oh, and cholesterol only comes from animal products. How many people have high cholesterol issues? 100 million Americans have high blood pressure, high cholesterol or both. High blood pressure and high cholesterol are two of the major risk factors for heart attacks, strokes and other cardiovascular diseases, which are the leading cause of death in the United States, killing 800,000 people every year.

    There is a lot of talk on here about the availability of organic meat. It's meat, it doesn't matter. Our bodies don't do well with it in any form.
    Last edited by alphazz; 03-28-2013 at 08:20 AM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    The problem with meat and dairy are the multiplier effect that it has on toxins. That is why higher level carnivores and fish have so many toxins in their flesh. Better to eat sprayed plants than meat. The toxins in mothers milk is so much greater for those who eat meat and dairy vs. those that don't.

    As far as our Strava friend is concerned he is just illustrating that you can perform at a high level not eating meat.
    So how do the herbivores end up with so many toxins in their meat if they are only eating the plants that have fewer toxins?
    And I'm pretty sure our Strava friend here was trying to imply that he performed at a higher level specfically because he doesn't eat mat.

    Really though, I would rather die of a stroke at the age of 63, with high cholestorol, high blood pressure, and diabetes, than be stuck around for another 20+ years beyond that watching my body slowly decay away to the point I can't even get myself to the bathroom on time or even remember where it is.
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    Really though, I would rather die of a stroke at the age of 63, with high cholestorol, high blood pressure, and diabetes, than be stuck around for another 20+ years beyond that watching my body slowly decay away to the point I can't even get myself to the bathroom on time or even remember where it is.
    Might be great if you just died but most of the time it means a lower standard of life with the "need" of a lot of medications and medical costs. Most of the health care costs in America could be eliminated by healthier living. As far as living another twenty years, have you ever ridden with a healthy seventy-year old? One of my riding buddies is closing in on eighty. I'd bet he'd ride most guys into the ground on a road bike. I just watched a video of him on motorcycle track passing all but two guys at speeds of well over 100 mph. Being healthy means you don't have to stop living when you get older or haul around an oxygen tank and a bag full of medications.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    If you want to make sure you have colon and prostate problems you should eat a lot of meat. 100,000 new cases of colon cancer are expected in America this year, causing about 50,000 deaths. With 2/3 of men having prostate cancer by the time they are in their sixties, there will be about 240,000 new cases of prostate cancer in America this year, causing about 30,000 deaths.

    Oh, and cholesterol only comes from animal products. How many people have high cholesterol issues? 100 million Americans have high blood pressure, high cholesterol or both. High blood pressure and high cholesterol are two of the major risk factors for heart attacks, strokes and other cardiovascular diseases, which are the leading cause of death in the United States, killing 800,000 people every year.

    There is a lot of talk on here about the availability of organic meat. It's meat, it doesn't matter. Our bodies don't do well with it in any form.
    Scare tactics, lol

    I have an appoint in a week or two with my 98 year old customer who still goes out to the golf course 2-3 times a week. I will be sure to tell him to stop eating meat because it isn't good for him.

    BTW, how many of todays 100+ year old people do you think lived a vegan lifestyle?
    I would venture that the majority of them have no idea what a vegan is.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  39. #39
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    There are exceptions to every rule but clearly they are the exceptions. Also, many of them might not be vegetarians but it is likely that they do enough of the good things to allow them to live to those ages.

    All I did was quote facts. By the way, there aren't a large percentage of people to live to over 100 in America but there are cultures that are vegetarian that see 100 regularly. In America, only 0.0173% of Americans live to 100.

    To say that people can live through a car crash where one rolls his vehicle a dozen times because you know someone who has is kind of a stupid rule to try to live by.

    Scare tactics? It is scary when this country spends billions of dollars every year trying to treat heart disease and high blood pressure.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    There are exceptions to every rule but clearly they are the exceptions. Also, many of them might not be vegetarians but it is likely that they do enough of the good things to allow them to live to those ages.

    All I did was quote facts. By the way, there aren't a large percentage of people to live to over 100 in America but there are cultures that are vegetarian that see 100 regularly. In America, only 0.0173% of Americans live to 100.

    To say that people can live through a car crash where one rolls his vehicle a dozen times because you know someone who has is kind of a stupid rule to try to live by.

    Scare tactics? It is scary when this country spends billions of dollars every year trying to treat heart disease and high blood pressure.
    I'm curious. What cultures are vegetarian?

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    According to Psychology Today, roughly 75% of vegetarians eventually return to eating meat with 9 years being the average length of time of abstinence. Really?

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    There are cultures that have been primarily plant based as there are many that have been primarily meat based.

    Of course there is always "the exception"....like maybe the Inuits who eat very little to no fruits in vegetable and have a very high meat and fat diet yet somehow had little to no diseases of modern man.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Actually, the Inuits have a fairly short life span.

    The difference between the primarily plant based diet cultures and the meat based cultures is that the plant based cultures live active lives for decades longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Actually, the Inuits have a fairly short life span.

    The difference between the primarily plant based diet cultures and the meat based cultures is that the plant based cultures live active lives for decades longer.
    Again. What vegetarian cultures are you referring too?

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    Man, it doesn't matter which vegetarian culture you look at. They all live longer than Americans, with fewer health issues. Try Ikaria, Nicoya, Okinawa, and many others that have high concentrations of active men over the age of 100. This isn't new information, it is just hidden beneath a bunch of social pressure and advertising that says we need beef, or chicken, or "the other white meat".

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    The Seventh-Day Adventists here in America live on average almost a decade longer than the rest of Americans. The Adventists encourage healthy living and many are vegetarians.

    The problem with the OP's suggested topic, "Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!" is that it isn't supported by the facts. The exact opposite is true unless you ask the National Dairy Counsel or someone in the beef industry.

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    Wow! Okinawans are vegetarians? Spent a lot of time there? Just because you say something, it doesn't make it true.
    While I agree that a plant based diet is healthy, it's not for everyone. My father will be 92 this July. Ate the SAD diet. There are more variables to longevity then diet alone.

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    Okinawans do eat a largely plant based diet as a whole. If you spent time there, how much beef do they eat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Actually, the Inuits have a fairly short life span.
    ORLY?

    Whole Health Source: Mortality and Lifespan of the Inuit

    Also, is it possible that any "young" deaths have more to do with dangerous life style and lack of western medicine?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    Wow! Okinawans are vegetarians? Spent a lot of time there? Just because you say something, it doesn't make it true.
    While I agree that a plant based diet is healthy, it's not for everyone. My father will be 92 this July. Ate the SAD diet. There are more variables to longevity then diet alone.
    Yup
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    It is simple

    Let's say that if I switched to a vegan diet I will live 10 years longer.
    All that means is that I will have 10 years more added to my life of wishing I could eat the savory yummy tasty goodness of bacon.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Pros and cons of eating meat/being a vegan aside, can someone explain the Inuit Paradox? It's truly intriguing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Pros and cons of eating meat/being a vegan aside, can someone explain the Inuit Paradox? It's truly intriguing.
    Inuit were not a long lived culture. They ate meat and a lot of it because it was pretty much all that was available. If an average life span of 45 years is good to you then be my guest.
    People spend more time taking care of their homes, cars and bikes while they neglect their bodies.
    We have a huge choice of food now so we are not limited to a small range of food. Unfortunately a lot of the choices are terrible (tasty but terrible!)

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    Although Inuits may have a shorter average lifespan, it's likely due to a variety of factors, not necessarily diet. However, either way you look at it, the main argument against meat has been that all meat is bad and if you eat meat you will die of a heart attack or cancer. Of which the Inuits do not have a problem with.

    Members in my family have lived in their late 80's and early 90's and some in their 100's.
    None of which have suffered from heart disease or cancer. Also none of which ever lived remotely what is close to a vegetarian diet and only enough to boot they were not exercise junkies either. My over 90 year old grandmother still even drives herself around.

    In all honesty, I don't care if I live to be 80, 90, or 100.
    In fact if I die at 40 (which comes this year) I will die happy and that is all I ask for.
    Life without meat is not happy so why would I stop eating meat?
    Better to live a short happy life than a long miserable existence.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Might be great if you just died but most of the time it means a lower standard of life with the "need" of a lot of medications and medical costs. Most of the health care costs in America could be eliminated by healthier living. As far as living another twenty years, have you ever ridden with a healthy seventy-year old? One of my riding buddies is closing in on eighty. I'd bet he'd ride most guys into the ground on a road bike. I just watched a video of him on motorcycle track passing all but two guys at speeds of well over 100 mph. Being healthy means you don't have to stop living when you get older or haul around an oxygen tank and a bag full of medications.
    I have a family history of diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholestorol, and heart problems before the age of 55. My dad had 2 strokes by the time he was 60. Almost every visit to the doctor over the last 15 years, I have been told that my blood pressure is higher then what it should be. What exactly is a strictly vegeterian/vegan diet gonna do, help me live with diabetes longer? I live a healthier life than my dad, but genetics goes a long ways. So many people want to live longer. Why, scared to die? What's wrong with going at 65 having lived a happy life, instead of living till 85 stressing over how to put off death as long as possible?
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Although Inuits may have a shorter average lifespan, it's likely due to a variety of factors, not necessarily diet. However, either way you look at it, the main argument against meat has been that all meat is bad and if you eat meat you will die of a heart attack or cancer. Of which the Inuits do not have a problem with.

    Members in my family have lived in their late 80's and early 90's and some in their 100's.
    None of which have suffered from heart disease or cancer. Also none of which ever lived remotely what is close to a vegetarian diet and only enough to boot they were not exercise junkies either. My over 90 year old grandmother still even drives herself around.

    In all honesty, I don't care if I live to be 80, 90, or 100.
    In fact if I die at 40 (which comes this year) I will die happy and that is all I ask for.
    Life without meat is not happy so why would I stop eating meat?
    Better to live a short happy life than a long miserable existence.
    Well fish is better than beef and other meats. Also the Inuits had an active life which many Americans no longer have. Still not a long lived culture by any stretch of the imagination.
    At 40 I was unaware of diet myself. Late 40's went vegetarian. Now 60 and I am paying a lot more attention to diet. Ride a lot more and I am in the best shape of my life. I no longer have goo hanging on me.
    It is pretty obvious you are at a point in your life where you have made your diet decision and are happy with that. But the western diet is wreaking havoc with our health. The food supply has changed from GMO to feed lots and hormones. The major players in the game are not concerned with health but manipulating their products to get you hooked on them and or maximizing profits. Are children today, given their diet going to be as long lived as their parents and grandparents? I suspect not.
    Changing one's diet is difficult. It is more about a lifestyle change and you have to be ready for it and committed. How many people buy a bike, get all jazzed about it and then after a while it just sits in the garage and gathers dust?? People are much better at making bad choices than good ones because it is easier and more pleasant initially. Every day I look around at people on the street and the numbers of overweight and out of shape people is astounding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Well fish is better than beef and other meats. Also the Inuits had an active life which many Americans no longer have. Still not a long lived culture by any stretch of the imagination.
    At 40 I was unaware of diet myself. Late 40's went vegetarian. Now 60 and I am paying a lot more attention to diet. Ride a lot more and I am in the best shape of my life. I no longer have goo hanging on me.
    It is pretty obvious you are at a point in your life where you have made your diet decision and are happy with that. But the western diet is wreaking havoc with our health. The food supply has changed from GMO to feed lots and hormones. The major players in the game are not concerned with health but manipulating their products to get you hooked on them and or maximizing profits. Are children today, given their diet going to be as long lived as their parents and grandparents? I suspect not.
    Changing one's diet is difficult. It is more about a lifestyle change and you have to be ready for it and committed. How many people buy a bike, get all jazzed about it and then after a while it just sits in the garage and gathers dust?? People are much better at making bad choices than good ones because it is easier and more pleasant initially. Every day I look around at people on the street and the numbers of overweight and out of shape people is astounding.
    You keep referencing the Inuit in the past tense, as if they're some sort of extinct species!

    You do know the Inuit still exist in the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands in the Arctic circle, no?

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    Here, if anyone was wondering what the Inuit Paradox is, is a good, lengthy, if slightly older (2004) article.

    The Inuit Paradox | DiscoverMagazine.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    You keep referencing the Inuit in the past tense, as if they're some sort of extinct species!

    You do know the Inuit still exist in the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands in the Arctic circle, no?
    Modern VS Traditional Life | Inuit Cultural Online Resource
    Are the Inuit Healthy? : Disease Proof

    They no longer live like they used to so that is why we speak in past tense.
    Last edited by richwolf; 03-29-2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: put in another link

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    Thank you for your sanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I have noticed a lot of information battling when it comes to diets.
    Vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low carb, no carb, ketogenic, etc etc etc.
    Some diets seem to work for some and not fr others.

    1) Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
    2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?
    ....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?

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    I think if people spent as much time obsessing about the health of the planet and what actions they could take to reduce human impacts, living longer would be a lot more meaningful.

    Indifference to how well we take care of our terrarium is going to unleash a hurt locker of misery upon the vast majority of mankind within the next 40 years. Luck, much more so than diet, will play the biggest role in determining which 1-3 billion human beings remain here to help bury the dead and continue to propagate our species.

    10 years from now, we'll be paying as much a gallon for water fit to drink as we do for gasoline. Meat will be a luxury for the most wealthy. Most of the rest of us will dine on peas with some insects thrown in there to augment our protein needs. And, yeah, breathing air that doesn't look like the current skyline in Beijing will be a luxury that we will enjoy about once every six months if the air currents are just right.

    Welcome to the future.

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    Moonshine Willie, did you not pay attention in high school science, our earth is a closed system with the same amount of moisture at all times. It is nice that you have a crystal ball that tells you what the future will be like, but I'm thinking you have been watching too many end of the world type movies and listening to Al Gore.

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    As far as the Inuit people, they are headed the way of the American Indian quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    The food supply has changed from GMO to feed lots and hormones. The major players in the game are not concerned with health but manipulating their products to get you hooked on them and or maximizing profits. Are children today, given their diet going to be as long lived as their parents and grandparents? I suspect not.
    Ok, I see the wheel is finally turning, now lets see if there is actually a hamster in that thing.

    Earlier, according to you, no amount of meat is healthy.
    Now you seem to be coming to a logical conclusion that all the crap they put in food that does not belong there is what isn't healthy, not the food itself.

    And I am sure our children (well, not mine since I don't have any crumb snatchers) will live long healthy lives longer than ours as people are becoming more and more educated on what is done to our food and buying stuff that is void of all the extra crap.

    BTW, the Inuit diet is still mostly meat and current diseases they suffer from is believed to be brought from other cultures such as the Russians. Also life as an Inuit is dangerous which is also part of the reason the life expectancy is low.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    According to Psychology Today, roughly 75% of vegetarians eventually return to eating meat with 9 years being the average length of time of abstinence.

    Yes, the power of suggestion, advertising, and pressure from nearly everyone is great. I've been a vegetarian for about 25 years. It has nothing to do with being a poor hunter as some have suggested, I hunt every year very successfully.

    "Could it be that the proper diet depends on the individual?
    2) Could it be that the proper diet also depends on goals and type of sport?
    ....could it be that lifestyle and not just diet has more to do with a long healthy life?"

    You are right. If you want to be a sumo wrestler, eat like the kings of old.

    Many on here are like my son. He wouldn't put anything but the best oil and fuel in his motorcycle, but he'll drink Red Bull and other sodas like they are water and then wonder why he's not feeling well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Moonshine Willie, did you not pay attention in high school science, our earth is a closed system with the same amount of moisture at all times. It is nice that you have a crystal ball that tells you what the future will be like, but I'm thinking you have been watching too many end of the world type movies and listening to Al Gore.
    Hi Alphazz. Yes, I did pay attention in high-school science class. I paid attention enough to get a Ph.D! Whoopie!

    I'm surprised that as a kid you never made a terrarium or some other closed-system habitat for your amusement, or watched the nonlinear growth and sudden extinction that goes on inside a petri dish. While a closed system does conserve the original amount of energy and raw materials inside, you will notice that most often these raw materials get converted into new forms through chemical and physical changes. It's incredibly difficult to get even the best-engineered system to become sustainable. That's why over time we have watched certain species come and go here on Earth.

    To address your point specifically about water, how is it that you think a burgeoning population of nearly 9 billion people (triple the population compared to just 15 years ago) is going to harvest enough potable water when the vast majority of the planet's water is too salty to drink and the rest of it is rapidly being crapped up with pollutants and contaminants created from mankind's unstoppable zest for life? I don't know the answer either; it's not an easy problem.

    Do you realize that in the past 50 years, mankind has extracted as much coal as was extracted in the entire period of human history before that? Mankind in the past 50 years has extracted more energy products than during the entire previous span of human history. In the past five years, mankind has extracted more precious metals than had been extracted during the whole of human history before that. By anyone's imagination—even Al Gore's—such a path is clearly unsustainable.

    What do you suppose is going to happen? That the scientists are suddenly going to have a eureka moment in which they are able to solve all of the world's environmental problems overnight? Or that Jesus is going to suddenly show up and pull a rabbit out of his hat that's going to make all the world's resources sustainable and all the people living in the world coexist in a harmonious manner?

    Not likely.

    Realistically, instead, our Savior will appear as some version of influenza or some bug we haven't even discovered yet, and it will lay waste to about 6 billion people over the course of one year. We'll all suddenly find common purpose and harmony in disposing of the dead. Or we will simply devolve into chaotic bands of desperate, violent neanderthals competing for scarce resources. Weak and strong, rich and poor, we'll all end up ripping one another to shreds for a sip of clean water and the last York peppermint patty.

    Sometimes I laugh really hard at people who obsess about little things like whether meat or vegetables are the better option, or whether SRAM or Shimano is superior. We're so busy paying attention to our bikes, that we're not noticing the garage burning down around us.

    Have a nice day.

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    RE: Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!!

    mmmmm bacon wrapped pork
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine Willie View Post
    Hi Alphazz. Yes, I did pay attention in high-school science class. I paid attention enough to get a Ph.D! Whoopie!

    I'm surprised that as a kid you never made a terrarium or some other closed-system habitat for your amusement, or watched the nonlinear growth and sudden extinction that goes on inside a petri dish. While a closed system does conserve the original amount of energy and raw materials inside, you will notice that most often these raw materials get converted into new forms through chemical and physical changes. It's incredibly difficult to get even the best-engineered system to become sustainable. That's why over time we have watched certain species come and go here on Earth.

    To address your point specifically about water, how is it that you think a burgeoning population of nearly 9 billion people (triple the population compared to just 15 years ago) is going to harvest enough potable water when the vast majority of the planet's water is too salty to drink and the rest of it is rapidly being crapped up with pollutants and contaminants created from mankind's unstoppable zest for life? I don't know the answer either; it's not an easy problem.

    Do you realize that in the past 50 years, mankind has extracted as much coal as was extracted in the entire period of human history before that? Mankind in the past 50 years has extracted more energy products than during the entire previous span of human history. In the past five years, mankind has extracted more precious metals than had been extracted during the whole of human history before that. By anyone's imagination—even Al Gore's—such a path is clearly unsustainable.

    What do you suppose is going to happen? That the scientists are suddenly going to have a eureka moment in which they are able to solve all of the world's environmental problems overnight? Or that Jesus is going to suddenly show up and pull a rabbit out of his hat that's going to make all the world's resources sustainable and all the people living in the world coexist in a harmonious manner?

    Not likely.

    Realistically, instead, our Savior will appear as some version of influenza or some bug we haven't even discovered yet, and it will lay waste to about 6 billion people over the course of one year. We'll all suddenly find common purpose and harmony in disposing of the dead. Or we will simply devolve into chaotic bands of desperate, violent neanderthals competing for scarce resources. Weak and strong, rich and poor, we'll all end up ripping one another to shreds for a sip of clean water and the last York peppermint patty.

    Sometimes I laugh really hard at people who obsess about little things like whether meat or vegetables are the better option, or whether SRAM or Shimano is superior. We're so busy paying attention to our bikes, that we're not noticing the garage burning down around us.

    Have a nice day.
    Wow!!! You have seriously bummed me out. I guess the next logical question would be; what are we to do about this apocalyptic situation you have put forth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    Wow!!! You have seriously bummed me out. I guess the next logical question would be; what are we to do about this apocalyptic situation you have put forth?
    Actually, Z4good, I'm not really sure. We may already be past the tipping point. If so, keep yourself as healthy as you can, hold your children tight, learn to become self sufficient, hope for the best....

    If the tipping point hasn't been reached, a few things you can do are to, first and foremost, limit your progeny and encourage others to do so. Rage against plutocracy, corporatocracy and oligarchy. Vote citizens into office, not corporate pawns (in other words, vote in representative who will look out for people's interests instead of corporate interests).

    Buy local, eat food produced within 250 miles of your home, only eat foods that are in season in your hemisphere when they are in season in your hemisphere, grow a garden, raise chickens, live in a small house, to the extent possible, stop burning things. Refuse to buy imported goods. Get to know your neighbors, regain a sense of empathy and compassion for other human beings, smile at people, promote friendliness and eschew fear. Work cooperatively, not competitively.

    End rampant consumerism and encourage others to do so, downsize, carpool, conserve water, wear a sweater inside in the winter, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah—in other words, do all the things nobody wants to do.

    Stop staring at your stupid cell phone and take a look around.

    If you laugh at those things, then it's a certainty that we have passed the tipping point and that all of our futures rest solely in the hands of chance.

    Good night and good luck.

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    I know we've gotten off topic, but thanks, you've offered up some good suggestions, a lot of which I subscribe to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine Willie View Post
    Actually, Z4good, I'm not really sure. We may already be past the tipping point. If so, keep yourself as healthy as you can, hold your children tight, learn to become self sufficient, hope for the best....

    If the tipping point hasn't been reached, a few things you can do are to, first and foremost, limit your progeny and encourage others to do so. Rage against plutocracy, corporatocracy and oligarchy. Vote citizens into office, not corporate pawns (in other words, vote in representative who will look out for people's interests instead of corporate interests).

    Buy local, eat food produced within 250 miles of your home, only eat foods that are in season in your hemisphere when they are in season in your hemisphere, grow a garden, raise chickens, live in a small house, to the extent possible, stop burning things. Refuse to buy imported goods. Get to know your neighbors, regain a sense of empathy and compassion for other human beings, smile at people, promote friendliness and eschew fear. Work cooperatively, not competitively.

    End rampant consumerism and encourage others to do so, downsize, carpool, conserve water, wear a sweater inside in the winter, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah—in other words, do all the things nobody wants to do.

    Stop staring at your stupid cell phone and take a look around.

    If you laugh at those things, then it's a certainty that we have passed the tipping point and that all of our futures rest solely in the hands of chance.

    Good night and good luck.



    The post of 2013. Yes, seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Ok, I see the wheel is finally turning, now lets see if there is actually a hamster in that thing.

    Earlier, according to you, no amount of meat is healthy.
    Now you seem to be coming to a logical conclusion that all the crap they put in food that does not belong there is what isn't healthy, not the food itself.

    And I am sure our children (well, not mine since I don't have any crumb snatchers) will live long healthy lives longer than ours as people are becoming more and more educated on what is done to our food and buying stuff that is void of all the extra crap.

    BTW, the Inuit diet is still mostly meat and current diseases they suffer from is believed to be brought from other cultures such as the Russians. Also life as an Inuit is dangerous which is also part of the reason the life expectancy is low.
    In my opinion meat is not healthy regardless of whether it is grass fed or lot fed.
    I see more obese children all the time. Where is their food and diet education?
    You can make all the excuses you want for the Inuit's short life span but eating a lot of flesh is not the optimum diet. Read the China Study.
    I have done a ton of research on diet and long lived cultures. If my research would have come to the conclusion that dairy and flesh were healthy choices, then that is the way my diet would be going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    In my opinion meat is not healthy regardless of whether it is grass fed or lot fed.
    I see more obese children all the time. Where is their food and diet education?
    You can make all the excuses you want for the Inuit's short life span but eating a lot of flesh is not the optimum diet. Read the China Study.
    I have done a ton of research on diet and long lived cultures. If my research would have come to the conclusion that dairy and flesh were healthy choices, then that is the way my diet would be going.
    It is your OPINION that meat is not healthy. It is my OPNION that proper cuts of meat, in moderation are healthy. I too have done a ton of research on diet, and have come to a completely different conclusion.
    Children are not obese from eating too much meat. Children are obese from too much sugar, too much processed foods, too much grains, too little exercise.
    For every study you mention, I can find numerous rebuttals.
    If it works for you great. But you shouldn't assume that because one has chosen to eat meat, they are ill informed and must be converted.
    Besides, if we weren't meant to eat meat, "Why does it taste so darn good?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    It is your OPINION that meat is not healthy. It is my OPNION that proper cuts of meat, in moderation are healthy. I too have done a ton of research on diet, and have come to a completely different conclusion.
    Children are not obese from eating too much meat. Children are obese from too much sugar, too much processed foods, too much grains, too little exercise.
    For every study you mention, I can find numerous rebuttals.
    If it works for you great. But you shouldn't assume that because one has chosen to eat meat, they are ill informed and must be converted.
    Besides, if we weren't meant to eat meat, "Why does it taste so darn good?

    Lots of things taste good that aren't good for you. People do a lot of things that they like that aren't good for them. They ingest cocaine, meth etc.
    At least you have done your research which is more than what most people do.

  75. #75
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    [QUOTE=richwolf;10279567]Lots of things taste good that aren't good for you. .

    I know huh? As soon as I wrote that I thought about ice cream!!!!

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    [QUOTE=Z4good;10279612]
    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Lots of things taste good that aren't good for you. .

    I know huh? As soon as I wrote that I thought about ice cream!!!!
    Well cheese, heavy cream in my coffee and ice cream were a part of my diet. The ice cream would call my name in the middle of the night and I would respond! I still have months old ice cream in my freezer and never touch it now!

  77. #77
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    Over in the vegan thread a common sub theme in the posts was omnivores were trying to hijack the thread.

    Now in an omnivore thread the vegans are the ones attempting the hijacking. It is hypocrisy -- plain and simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Over in the vegan thread a common sub theme in the posts was omnivores were trying to hijack the thread.

    Now in an omnivore thread the vegans are the ones attempting the hijacking. It is hypocrisy -- plain and simple.
    That is how we roll! Actually go to the first post and see the humor in it!

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    dave54, I'll leave you to your vices.

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    Easter Dinner went out to eat with the family to a super nice brunch buffet.
    They had sausage, bacon, roast beef, lamb, honey ham, chicken, smoked salmon.....I couldn't decide what to get, so I got it all.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    That is how we roll! Actually go to the first post and see the humor in it!
    Yeah, but vegans do attempt to hijack every meat omnivore thread and get unruly upset when an omnivore posts in their thread. You vegans are a testy little bunch. I think it is the lack of bacon. It turns you guys in to a bunch of pouty b!tches.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Easter Dinner went out to eat with the family to a super nice brunch buffet.
    They had sausage, bacon, roast beef, lamb, honey ham, chicken, smoked salmon.....I couldn't decide what to get, so I got it all.
    I hope you saved some room for pie and ice cream, and maybe a large latte at the end.

    I'll eat light later, I've got in a strong 40 mile ride this morning and now I need to ride the fattie around town since it is a nice day.

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    Vegetarians take note: A study in the "Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition" concludes that cyclists who went meatless had to work harder (based on VO2 measurements) to achieve the same results during a cycling test then their carnivorous peers who got more protein.
    Round out a meat-free diet with plant-based protein sources. Aim for a serving or two of beans (about a cup) every day, as well as daily servings of soy,nuts, and whole grains, says Leslie Bonci, MPH, RD, director of sports nutrition at University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

    This public service announcement brought to you by your friendly neighborhood carnivore.

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    Z4good, how about a link?

    If I read the same article, you are twisting the facts. They were studying a low-protein vegetarian diet but that has nothing to do with a normal well-rounded vegetarian diet.

    They need to compare vegetarian vs. a meat diet with subjects getting the same amount of protein, just from different sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Z4good, how about a link?

    If I read the same article, you are twisting the facts. They were studying a low-protein vegetarian diet but that has nothing to do with a normal well-rounded vegetarian diet.

    They need to compare vegetarian vs. a meat diet with subjects getting the same amount of protein, just from different sources.
    Here is the link: JISSN | Full text | Low-protein vegetarian diet does not have a short-term effect on blood acid¿base status but raises oxygen consumption during submaximal cycling

    Here is the conclusion:

    Conclusions

    A low-protein vegetarian diet followed for 4 days had no acute effect on venous blood acid–base status in young recreationally active men when compared to the normal diet of the subjects. The vegetarian diet increased VO2 during submaximal aerobic cycling suggesting that the submaximal cycling economy was poorer after LPVD compared to ND. However, this had no further effect on maximal aerobic performance. According to these results, a low-protein vegetarian diet cannot be recommended as a means to improve submaximal or maximal aerobic performance via acid–base balance as opposed to what was hypothesized. More studies are needed to define how nutrition, its comprehensive composition, and the duration of the diet period affect acid–base balance and performance. More specific measurements should also be used to determine the underlying mechanisms for higher VO2 after the low-protein vegetarian diet.

    Certainly not a smoking gun against a well balanced vegetarian diet. The problem is most people get too much protein which can lead to many other issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Z4good, how about a link?

    If I read the same article, you are twisting the facts. They were studying a low-protein vegetarian diet but that has nothing to do with a normal well-rounded vegetarian diet.

    They need to compare vegetarian vs. a meat diet with subjects getting the same amount of protein, just from different sources.
    Sorry, but I twisted no facts. I copied it verbatim from May issue, Bicycling Magazine, page 40, left hand column. They are the ones who drew the conclusion, not I.
    You've read the whole article, draw your own.

    This whole vegan vs meat eater war cracks me up. I personally admire someone who is a vegetarian, and am always searching for answers in my own diet matrix.

    I've never been a vegan basher, but I do find their passion misplaced at times. But I do admire your passion nonetheless.

    Peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    Sorry, but I twisted no facts. I copied it verbatim from May issue, Bicycling Magazine, page 40, left hand column. They are the ones who drew the conclusion, not I.
    You've read the whole article, draw your own.

    This whole vegan vs meat eater war cracks me up. I personally admire someone who is a vegetarian, and am always searching for answers in my own diet matrix.

    I've never been a vegan basher, but I do find their passion misplaced at times. But I do admire your passion nonetheless.

    Peace
    Bicycling Magazine did a disservice to their readers with "their conclusion" We could all do studies with diet leaving out important nutrients, carbs, proteins, etc and come to similar conclusions. All you have to do is look around at many people today and come to the conclusion that their diets and level of exercise sucks.
    The bottom line is, that it is hard to change one's diet. Most people would be better off reducing meat and dairy and going more to a plant based diet. Many of us are eliminating meat and dairy.
    And there are studies that show people who go vegetarian may not be successful (drop out rates) but that doesn't really mean the diet is bad for them, just that they aren't ready to make the commitment that is needed to change, or with their family and friends not being on board. How many people buy a bike, get all jazzed and then forget it??

    I rode my bike by a neighbor lady the other day and she said "I wish I could do that!". My response to her was that she could! The look on her face was priceless!

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    Z4, Your original post made it sound like a vegetarian diet affected oxygen needs during exercising. You completely left out that they modified a vegetarian diet to make it low in protein. Heck, they could probably come up with the same results with a low protein meat diet. The problem with the study is that it doesn't address anything. I just got done with breakfast and that means that I've had over 70 grams of protein today already. Most meat eaters probably had less than 5 grams of protein for breakfast but probably large amounts of sugar and caffeine.

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    Right, a proper scientific study would have controls relating to protein intake. Does anyone know if such a study has been done? Comparing a vegetarian diet to a meat diet where protein and macronutrient intake is similar.

    For the record, I eat meat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Z4, Your original post made it sound like a vegetarian diet affected oxygen needs during exercising. You completely left out that they modified a vegetarian diet to make it low in protein. Heck, they could probably come up with the same results with a low protein meat diet. The problem with the study is that it doesn't address anything. I just got done with breakfast and that means that I've had over 70 grams of protein today already. Most meat eaters probably had less than 5 grams of protein for breakfast but probably large amounts of sugar and caffeine.
    I'm sorry for Christ's sake!!! I copied the article from bicycling magazine. I left out nothing and was not trying to twist any facts.
    I agree with 95% of what you guys say. I like some fish, fowl and eggs occasionally.
    Peace
    Last edited by Z4good; 04-01-2013 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    It's all good Z4. Everybody has an opinion. I tend to be 95% plant based but I see absolutely no problems with occasionally indulging in lean healthy meat on occasion. The article you posted appears to have an agenda just like the vast majority of other articles and "study's" out there. There are zealots on both sides of the fence.

    As a side note I watched The Perfect Human Diet - Welcome this weekend. Many passionate opinions, very little science.
    I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I just hate vegetables.

  92. #92
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    The science seems to be that my relatives a few years ago were apes. I'm sorry, that's not science. That's an opinion that can't be substantiated and goes totally contrary to everything we see happening in the world today which should be enough to put this opinion outside of the realm of science.

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    I'm sure there are a number of folks that would judge your view point just as harshly alphazz.
    I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I just hate vegetables.

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    I said nothing of my viewpoint Ortho, but science is supposed to be about things that are observed and tested and the whole ape thing is as far fetched as the movie series Planet of the Apes (probably pre-dates many of you).

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    Re: Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Life without bacon is just not worth living.

    nuff said
    Your life must be lame, then.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

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    Re: Why meat and dairy is the recipie to great performance and a long life!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    It is your OPINION that meat is not healthy. It is my OPNION that proper cuts of meat, in moderation are healthy. I too have done a ton of research on diet, and have come to a completely different conclusion.
    Children are not obese from eating too much meat. Children are obese from too much sugar, too much processed foods, too much grains, too little exercise.
    For every study you mention, I can find numerous rebuttals.
    If it works for you great. But you shouldn't assume that because one has chosen to eat meat, they are ill informed and must be converted.
    Besides, if we weren't meant to eat meat, "Why does it taste so darn good?
    Is it also an OPINION that people who eschew animal products from their diet live significantly longer than their peers, on average?

    Since you've done a "ton" of research on diets, you must have known that already. Maybe if you don't like the outcomes of those studies, you can go find some with conclusions that line up better with your world view so can continue to support your "reverse scientific method" way of thinking.

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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Is it also an OPINION that people who eschew animal products from their diet live significantly longer than their peers, on average?

    Since you've done a "ton" of research on diets, you must have known that already. Maybe if you don't like the outcomes of those studies, you can go find some with conclusions that line up better with your world view so can continue to support your "reverse scientific method" way of thinking.
    Wow. World view. Really? Reverse scientific thinking. Seriously? You have all the answers right? My way or the highway.
    You don't know me or my dietary habits. You must see everything in black or white. If not eating meat produces the cynical attitude that you display, you might want to consider some bacon.

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    Oh crap I forgot. As per Richwolf's original intention this thread is for having fun and bashing meat eaters.

    So, go ahead and bash away.

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    I don't eat dead animal flesh out of respect for the animal's lives now.
    ...and I love a good steak,or fried chicken, or steamed shrimp...whatever.
    But the animals enjoy living their lives too...so if I can get my nutrition needs without eating their bodies and the little chicken's eggs,then so be it.
    I don't see anything wrong with eating flesh and eggs though...I really don't...for those that want it.It tastes yummy.

    P.S.-some of my best buddies are animals.
    Last edited by zarr; 04-02-2013 at 12:47 AM.
    roccowt.
    rocnbikemeld

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarr View Post

    P.S.-some of my best buddies are animals.
    I bet they would be yummy too.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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