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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post
    I have huge respect for vege people. My two close friends are vegans, and the discipline of vegan life spreads to discipline in other regions. They are never late to work, they are always organised, etc.
    You make it sound like the 'vegan life' is like some sort of disciplined imposition. This is simply not the case. The only 'discipline' involved is the simple and small effort involved in getting off the couch and going to a market to buy good food, then coming home and taking the trouble to prepare it. There may be some research involved in finding recipes and ideas, but it really is no great hardship.
    The benefits of this are many, as I and several others have pointed out here, and as is borne out all over the world as we speak here. Scaremongering about isolated cases of neglect to try and prove a point is invalid. There are 2 sides to that coin.
    As for the rest of your post, I am working on not getting angry at people who hold certain views, but you are not making it any easier...

  2. #102
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    My ex said the other day that she was now a vegetarian. But she eats eggs, cheese and fish. I'm like, well then you are not a vegetarian. She said, yes I am, I have lots of [hipster] friends who are vegan who eat eggs. Me, well then they are not vegans, look it up, and you are an ovo/lacto/ichthyo vegetarian and they are posers, saying they are vegan because it's trendy to be vegan and to be lacto or wheat intolerant it seems too. She's like, oh you are just too into labels. Me, no I'm not into labels, the ones calling them selves vegans are. I'm into honesty and calling a spade a spade.

    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being vegan or vegetarian or various forms of if that is what you are into. Just get the facts straight.

    I would call myself a soft core vegan I'll avoid animal products most of the time but will still eat a steak or hamburger or whatever occasionally when I want.

    A friend of my ex calls himself a "freegan". He's a vegan unless he's invited to dinner and they serve something else and it's free so he eats it. Sounds good to me
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post
    I have huge respect for vege people. My two close friends are vegans, and the discipline of vegan life spreads to discipline in other regions. They are never late to work, they are always organised, etc.

    That being said, these are two of my bottom line thoughts regarding vege diet.

    A) it is not natural. You cannot spontaneously decide not to eat animal products when we have been eating them for millions of years. There are replacement products, yes. Replacement. I think (maybe I'm wrong) but the human society yet has to see a person who lived his entire life being vegan and had no complications whatsoever because of it. Be it during pregnancy, old age, recovery from sickness etc. Show me a family that lived vege life for generations, and you convinced me.

    B) You are not fighting meat industry. Even if 20% of 1st world county population were vege, that will only make meat industry work harder with their buyers to put more meat into other 80%. By pure "coincidence" will McDonalds make a sandwich with meat and bacon and extra meat. Screw it, make buns out of meat. You cannot fight meat industry. Being vege out of rebellion against meat industry makes you like those folks who are anti-capitalist anti-corporate, yet on rallies they come in Dr.Martiens boots, Levis 501, Gap shirts with Che Guevara print. Of course, they organised event via iPhone, over Facebook. Vege lifestyle is a product of marketing, and you know it. Food industry wanted to make more money, so they shoved some guerilla marketing commercials into your head how you have to fight animal abuse, stop getting fat in Burger King. "Here, don't eat meat, eat this instead. And, oh, that food is harder to come by, +50% price, sorry. Be a good rebel, pay more!"
    A) There are millions of vegetarian families who have been for thousands of years outside of the US.

    B) So, if a bike shop gives you crappy service and you decide not to buy there anymore - are you "fighting" the bike shop?

    As I don't buy from retailers that my personal beliefs don't vibe with, the same goes with my decision not to buy from the meat industry. Because local grown, ethical meat is hard to come by, I just opt out. The mass meat industry is brutal, abusive and inhumane. So - you have a problem with those who choose not to "invest" our dollar in that? Strange - sounds like you have "beef" with the annoying liberal hippies/hipsters, and not necessarily vegetarians. As stated by myself and a few others - if you're looking to pick a fight with bleeding heart liberals, there isn't one sitting in this seat.

    I don't feel my vegetarianism is going to change the industry.

    I believe in "voting" with your wallet because I believe in the free market. I like the fact that I don't have to be a pompous PETA type to opt out of an industry I don't like - conversely I can opt in to an industry I do like. I like food companies that give me an option to eat healthy, good food that keeps me muscular and healthy and well without having to contribute to animal abuse.

    Diabetes and other health problems run rampant in my ethnic community due to the poor food choices. When I became a vegetarian, my "view" of food became more honed, and I started to investigate other things in my consumption, like sodium, processed sugar and high fructose corn syrup. I have lost 25 lbs. without losing an ounce of muscle and I average 100 miles of riding a week without batting an eye. I feel MUCH healthier now and my blood tests say the same (which are vastly more improved than just two years ago).

    I don't give a sh*t if what somebody eats. So why should anybody give a sh*t what myself and others eat? It appears your problem is with the pompous veggie liberal azzholes (who I am also annoyed by), so your disdain is misplaced in this thread.

    This thread is about sharing vege recipes and vegan cycling gear, not "We hate meat eaters and are better than them"
    Last edited by Dion; 08-15-2011 at 10:10 AM.

  4. #104
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    I heartily support this thread. I have eaten as a guest with lots of vegans/vegetarians and the food is usually not very good. So share some recipes so that the food tastes better ok

    ps. While it may be funny I am serious.

  5. #105
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    So where's the "vegan" cycling gear?

  6. #106
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    Long time vegan here.


    As an animal loving, biochemist, with a strong toxicology background I would have to say that I do it for Environmental, ethical/moral, physiological/health reasons.

    From a taxonomic perspective I see the biological foundations of a primarily herbivorous animal, and from a purely biochemical perspective we see the same thing. There are few sound arguments suggesting we are "designed" to eat meat, and the long term negative health consequences of doing so are rather obvious too.

    Additionally, it is clear that factory farms are one of the larger sources of environmental toxicants. Many members of my father's side of the family have large family farms, and these are so very different from the industrial farms that actually bring the bulk of animal products to market. . .unfortunately the family farms have a very difficult time competing, and especially in the case of dairy farms, they are often regulated out of existence.

    It is hard to argue about ethics/morals, so I'm not going to bother with that, other than to say that I trust my own ethical assessment that if I have a choice, I'd rather not kill sentient beings.

    In the end, it's hard for me to justify the consumption of meat, dairy or eggs. . .especially when sources from industrial factory farms.

    Another tidbit by way of accidental experimentation:

    Over the last few months when I was seeing a girl that was not vegetarian/vegan (a first, and last for me) I dabbled in cheese, and even had a bite of her mandarin chicken. The chicken was just foul, and during the two weeks that I'd had cheese probably once or twice a day I also saw something interesting when I'd work out. I noticed that I had phlegm and some headaches, and then when I went on rides it was amazing how much worse I felt, mostly in the respiratory department, and I also found that I got exertion headaches doing rides at paces I never had an issue with. I actually remember those feelings from a looooong time ago, and it was interesting to re-encounter them. I went back to being a happy vegan, and I got my old lungs and legs back, and no more headaches from hard sessions on the bike.
    Last edited by BrettVisionSLR; 08-15-2011 at 01:54 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post

    A) it is not natural. You cannot spontaneously decide not to eat animal products when we have been eating them for millions of years.
    I love it when i hear stuff like this. Modern science doesn't have the ability to prove almost anything from 'way back in the day'.. but some people still 'believe' they know what went on millions of years ago. We don't know how pyramids were made, and that was just a few thousand years ago, not to mention the 'missing link' and other puzzles in human evolution. Vegetarianism is simply not in any way any less viable than a 'meat eating diet', and that's been proven many times over.. heck in this thread alone!! (not even gonna go into the gazillion studies side if it)
    Last edited by PsyCro; 08-15-2011 at 01:50 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro View Post
    I love it when i hear stuff like this. Modern science doesn't have the ability to prove almost anything from 'way back in the day'.. but some people still 'believe' they know what went on millions of years ago. We don't know how pyramids were made, and that was just a few thousand years ago, not to mention the 'missing link' and other puzzles in human evolution. Vegetarianism is simply not in any way any less viable than a 'meat eating diet', and that's been proven many times over.. heck in this thread alone!! (not even gonna go into the gazillion studies side if it)
    There are many religious groups, including very old Christian groups that do not believe in meat consumption as the moral ideal. Most of these rules are not hard and fast (including Sikhs), but many believe it's the nonviolence that brings your closer to a higher spiritual awareness.

    That being said, you're looking at generations of people who did just fine on a veggie diet.

  9. #109
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    Cheesus Christmas. What's with all the hate? Some of you need to get out more. Is Dion the first vegetarian you've ever met?

    I'm not vegetarian any more, but I was for several years. I eat meat now, but locally and humanely raised exclusively.

    That said, I still eat many vegetarian meals on a regular basis. So, in a (possibly futile) effort to get the thread back on track, here are a couple favorites:

    Like Indian food? Chana Masala is one of my favorites. I haven't tried this particular recipe, but it looks promising: chana masala | smitten kitchen

    For dessert, it's hard to beat this vegan peanut butter pie:
    Peanut Butter Pie (Vegan) Recipe | Yummly
    "Never trust a man in a blue trench coat. Never drive a car when you're dead." -- Tom Waits

  10. #110
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    I was a meat eating, beer guzzling, coffee drinking full throttle hard ass for 15 years as an adult. It caught up with me. Then I started studying health. Who were the longest living people? What were their diets like? How happy were they? Where did they live?

    I tried the Atkins diet. I tried the paleo diet. I tried low carb. I tried vegetarian. I tried low sodium vegan. Then high carb raw vegan. I even pulled off a 14 day water fast.

    I learned a lot ... If you want to lose 150 lbs, go vegan. Wanna do it quickly? Go raw vegan.

    Fruit never tasted better in my life, or gave me more energy, than when coming off ketosis. If you have a high fat diet, the sugars in fruit will make you feel sick. Insulin is almost ineffective when there is a high percentage of fat in the blood stream. Type 2 Diabetes is curable with a plant based low fat vegan diet. (The China Study.)

    On a vegan diet I feel a more spiritual person, more at peace, never depressed, A lot of us types get preachy because we want to share the exhilaration and hope of health after struggling through a long downward spiral of uneducated overeating. Talking about it turns into a passion.

    So, I'm not vegan for animal rights, or because of factory farms... although it does make sense ... if you let unnaturally raised, dead flesh and oils putrify in your body, you'll have a higher chance of disease.

    Yes, humans evolved eating meat. But way less often than we do these days. And you really had to work for it ...
    Shamanistic Hunting of The Kalahari People - YouTube
    "Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia" - H.G. Wells.

  11. #111
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    I am a Thai food addict.


    The ingredients are kind of exotic but worth the effort
    Here's the recipe:
    Por Pieer Tod (ปอเปี๊ยะทอด - Thai Spring Roll Recipe)

    Vegan Tamales (try not to lick the screen)!


    Corn Tamales with Chile-Braised Beans, Braised Greens, and Glazed Mushrooms - Recipe Finder

  12. #112
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    I stumbled upon vegetarianism when hunting for Pho' (Vietnamese soup). There is a place here in San Jose, Ca. called "Happy Bamboo" run by a tiny Vietnamese woman named Bihn. She is the most pleasant, sweet woman one can meet, and my wife really liked it because she is vegan.

    Well, the food was absolutely awesome, and I really couldn't tell the difference. All the fake "meat" had the same texture and taste as real meat. So the logical part of me said, "Well, hell... if I can make food that tastes like this all the time, I could do the vegetarian thing..."

    Two weeks later, wife and I went back to Happy Bamboo and I told Bihn I had been meat free since - then Bihn laid it all out on the table - all the ethical and moral issues surrounding the meat industry, etc. She also told me about the spiritual aspect of it as MikeG has said.

    So, the Mrs. and I went shopping and we found all kinds of cool stuff, like the Morning Star brand "ground meat" and their sausage patties. There is also tofu lunch "meat" - all the same texture and taste.

    So, vegetarians are, by no means, deprived of any good tasting food. I make tacos with the Morning Star ground "meat", curry fried rice, "beef" with broccoli (from "Fry's beef strips"), spaghetti and "meat balls", etc. Of course, veggie burgers and "chicken" sandwiches. It all tastes like meat, so psychologically I get my fill and philosophically I get my fill. Like I said, coming from a "meat centric" culture, it was a rough start but today's options make it very easy for a guy like me to go the veggie route.

    I have weened off cheese, but still eat eggs from an ethical, local farmer. I stopped with dairy mostly, but whatever's in deserts, I'll eat.

    For anybody wanting to give it a try without eating rabbit food, check out Morning Star, Fry's Beef Strips, or if you like Asian food, there are lots of Indian and Vietnamese restaurants that serve vegetarian dishes.

    It's not going to kill you and you actually might like it.

  13. #113
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    If you think a fake meat or cheese substitute tastes exactly like the real thing, you've been vegi/vegan for too long.
    You know, that is soy true.

    Seriously, eat what makes you feel best. I've been a vegetarian(had my own organic garden) and I've had a few burgers as well. Now, I'm somewhere in between. I don't eat much meat, but I've got nothing against doing so. I eat what I think is healthy and best for me. As far as what other people do, well, that's their business.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by longfinkillie View Post
    I am a Thai food addict.
    Vegan Tamales (try not to lick the screen)!
    Evidently, I've repped you too many times, but thanks for these recipes. They look awesome.



    And for DJ S.B. Some links for you (and anybody else that's interested) on lactose. I'm not saying that these prove or disprove anything. I just found the first one to be an informative read, and the second one to be a good chart.
    http://www.robrdunn.com/wp-content/u...05/Dunn-11.pdf
    Lactose Intolerance by Ethnicity and Region - Milk - ProCon.org

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeG View Post

    I learned a lot ... If you want to lose 150 lbs, go vegan. Wanna do it quickly? Go raw vegan.

    Fruit never tasted better in my life, or gave me more energy, than when coming off ketosis. If you have a high fat diet, the sugars in fruit will make you feel sick. Insulin is almost ineffective when there is a high percentage of fat in the blood stream. Type 2 Diabetes is curable with a plant based low fat vegan diet. (The China Study.)

    On a vegan diet I feel a more spiritual person, more at peace, never depressed, A lot of us types get preachy because we want to share the exhilaration and hope of health after struggling through a long downward spiral of uneducated overeating. Talking about it turns into a passion.

    So, I'm not vegan for animal rights, or because of factory farms... although it does make sense ... if you let unnaturally raised, dead flesh and oils putrify in your body, you'll have a higher chance of disease.

    Yes, humans evolved eating meat. But way less often than we do these days. And you really had to work for it ...
    Shamanistic Hunting of The Kalahari People - YouTube
    Thank you too for putting it so eloquently.

    This is all a personal choice, but, as you say, wanting to share the benefits is a powerful urge, and some people seem completely closed to any learning of these. I certainly do not hate these people, but they do frustrate me. So many of our problems related to health today could be solved or at least minimised if only the majority of people were to at least give a change in diet to something more plant based a chance. It usually takes a massive fright to bring about this change, but this is sadly not always the case.
    As far as recipes and such, I have already mentioned coconut based ice cream and 'yogurt', which is widely available now. Just these things satisfy a craving for something 'bad' that usually puts us in front of the freezer at the supermarket with a tub of Ben and Jerry's in our hands... for recipes, my girlfriend and I use a lot of stuff by Natalia Rose, or just google raw food online. We have our moments of weakness sometimes, but these usually involve the Indian Restaurant down the road here which is superb. They do some awesome vegetarian dishes... Flavor of India in Oro Valley if anyone lives in this area.
    The recipe for healthy carrot cake cookies that my girlfriend uses will only be pried from her on pain of death, so I am afraid I cannot share that right now... I shall work on it tho...

  16. #116
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    congrats on a well organized and respectful debate MTBR.

    we deserve a pat on the back, and maybe some soy cubes to top it off lol.
    Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    I heartily support this thread. I have eaten as a guest with lots of vegans/vegetarians and the food is usually not very good. So share some recipes so that the food tastes better ok

    ps. While it may be funny I am serious.
    Yeah, there is this idea that tofu is inherently delicious. Its bland, and tastes vaguely of grandparent's closet. Marinate that stuff!

    Baked tofu: take half a pound firm tofu, cut into thin slices, press dry, set aside.

    Take a small square tupperware (or whatever) container, add 1/4 cup soy/tamari, 2.5 tblsp sesame oil, 1 tblsp engevita yeast (helps mix the oil and soy). Mix, and toss in a diced clove of garlic for good measure! Add the tofu slices. Let marinate all day/overnight, flipping the tofu once. Bake in a preheated oven for 20-25 minutes, until desired level of crispiness is achieved. 425 F is a good temperature to do it at.

    We eat this with rice, and a simple broccoli stirfry with a head of garlic added. Specifics upon request

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro View Post
    I love it when i hear stuff like this. Modern science doesn't have the ability to prove almost anything from 'way back in the day'.. but some people still 'believe' they know what went on millions of years ago. We don't know how pyramids were made, and that was just a few thousand years ago, not to mention the 'missing link' and other puzzles in human evolution. Vegetarianism is simply not in any way any less viable than a 'meat eating diet', and that's been proven many times over.. heck in this thread alone!! (not even gonna go into the gazillion studies side if it)
    Rice and beans is a complete protein.

    Meat eating among primates is relatively recent (approx 5 million years ago), evolutionarily. Go back beyond our most recent common ancestor with chimps (who eat very little meat, mostly using it to entice sex. Ahem.), and most primates are herbivorous or fructivores. Go back to the most recent common ancestor of all mammals, and it probably ate bugs.
    Last edited by Bilirubin; 08-17-2011 at 11:27 PM.

  19. #119
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    Thanks for recipes, they all look good.

    Btw I thought I should clarify that while Tofurky does not taste as good as fresh roasted turkey, if you compare it to turkey loaf, which is probably 75% of the turkey that is consumed in the US, I'd take Tofurky over that crap any day. At least on a sandwich. Standing aside how it tastes or it's mouth feel can you image what is in it? I mean factory turkey is pretty nasty stuff but then they take the left overs that they can't sell otherwise and then grind it up and make loaf out of it. Ewww.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  20. #120
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    Had this tonight: Brown rice with a bunch of sliver chopped kale mixed in with sun-dried and fresh tomatoes stirred with pesto.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Thanks for recipes, they all look good.

    Btw I thought I should clarify that while Tofurky does not taste as good as fresh roasted turkey, if you compare it to turkey loaf, which is probably 75% of the turkey that is consumed in the US, I'd take Tofurky over that crap any day. At least on a sandwich. Standing aside how it tastes or it's mouth feel can you image what is in it? I mean factory turkey is pretty nasty stuff but then they take the left overs that they can't sell otherwise and then grind it up and make loaf out of it. Ewww.
    It's been so long since I've had turkey that I don't even remember what it actually tastes like. Tofurky does make an odd squeak when it's eaten, but the stuffing inside it is to die for.

  22. #122
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    You are the member of the NRA and having gun collection, well its very good but it would be difficult for you to do this just due to NRA.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    A)

    I don't give a sh*t if what somebody eats. So why should anybody give a sh*t what myself and others eat? It appears your problem is with the pompous veggie liberal azzholes (who I am also annoyed by), so your disdain is misplaced in this thread.

    This thread is about sharing vege recipes and vegan cycling gear, not "We hate meat eaters and are better than them"
    Sooooo, after several posts filled with drama, hate, angst, etc, it is apparent that some here are vegan, some are veggy's, and many are omnivorous....I get the point. Now, what about this so-called vegan cycling gear; I've called several bike shops, even making one long distance call to a san francisco bike shop, and no one has ever heard of vegan cycling gear?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaARNP View Post
    Sooooo, after several posts filled with drama, hate, angst, etc, it is apparent that some here are vegan, some are veggy's, and many are omnivorous....I get the point. Now, what about this so-called vegan cycling gear; I've called several bike shops, even making one long distance call to a san francisco bike shop, and no one has ever heard of vegan cycling gear?
    I would just let it go, I suspect he meant ecologically sound cycling apparel. I tried the Tofu cranks and they taste better than they work... gotta marinate them tho...

  25. #125
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    Vegan cycling gear. The website VegWeb is a good resource for recipes but is hit or miss since it is user run and the recipes are all home brewed ideas from said users. Also, Isa Chandra Moskowitz has a podcast vegan cooking show and her books are full of rad recipes( "Veganomicon", "Vegan with a Vengeance" and "Vegan Cupcakes Take Over the World"). A few more cookbooks: "Hot Damn and Hell Yeah" and "Please Don't Feed the Bears"; there's a zine called "Barefoot and in the Kitchen".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

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