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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Sexy Beast View Post
    "People generally become lactose intolerant as they get older"

    Still waiting...
    So intolerant is the wrong word, but people do tend to develope issues with dairy as they age.

  2. #77
    Gigantic Hawk
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Sexy Beast View Post
    Source?

    "i think that's what happens" does not count as a reliable source.
    Did you not read the links? National Geographic had a good article on it awhile back. I'll try to find it.

    To paraphrase,
    Babies (includes all ethnic/racial backgrounds) create lactase inorder to process lactose. When the body stops creating lactase, it becomes difficult to process lactose into its two simple sugars so that it can be absorbed by the intestine. Caucasians are the largest group to not always experience this stop in lactase production. Since caucasians make up a very small portion of the World's over all population, it is safe to say that many humans lose their ability to process dairy as they age.



    Getting this thread back on track...
    Good recipes can be found on
    Allrecipes.com - recipes, menus, meal ideas, food, and cooking tips.
    Vegetarian Recipes Search | Vegetarian Times
    Epicurious.com: Recipes, Menus, Cooking Articles & Food Guides

  3. #78
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    Beef i can give up, chicken, no way. Don't eat beef more than once a week, most of the time is chicken or fish.

    Burger with bacon, no way i could give up red meat.

  4. #79
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    I respect people who make their dietary choices without getting preachy, snotty, or rude about it. I happen to enjoy meat too much to give it up entirely. That said, I do enjoy a lot of vegetarian meals and will also enjoy the occasional vegan meal. But I enjoy cheese too much to give it up, especially local artisan cheeses.

    I try to get all of my food locally, organically, and from people who really love raising/growing food. Unfortunately, it's super expensive to do that with your whole diet, so I do it bit by bit when I can. My diet varies quite a bit seasonally these days, and I think that makes me appreciate a lot of my food even more. I stock up on peaches, plums, blueberries, and squashes when they're in season locally. I can usually get enough blueberries to stock my freezer for the year where I live. But the peaches and plums usually don't make it to the freezer. And you always have too much squash - squash is funny that way.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrasmak View Post
    Beef i can give up, ......... no way i could give up red meat.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by AptosRider View Post
    Beef isn't red meat, its black and white...idiot.
























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  7. #82
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    ........................
    Last edited by TraumaARNP; 08-14-2011 at 02:48 AM.

  8. #83
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    +1 on the Coconut Milk Ice Cream. They are doing some very good flavors now. Also, cultured coconut milk as a yogurt replacement, and if you like cheese but have trouble with it digestively, raw goat milk cheese is a good substitute. There's a lot of stuff out there if you care to look.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    learn how to make your own seitan. there are two methods, boiling and baking. I prefer to bake mine. yummy stuff if you spice it right.

    being vegan for the last 10 1/2 years has been working for me. however, I have learned to keep out of internet discussions because people get really defensive and rude. so that's all I will add to it. if you want to ask me about vegetarianism, recipes, etc, PM me. i won't waste my time playing games with rednecks who don't understand or respect my choices.
    I've finally mastered seitan a week ago. Been a veg' for 12 years. Now there's no stopping me from mocking duck, chicken, beef...Here's a tip if you don't do it already: Once the seitan is in dough form, I knead it flat and stretch it. I then roll it like a carpet in a tight cylinder or ball. I never let the broth boil (that's the hardest part), voila!

  10. #85
    humber river advocate
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    interesting stat: 399 million people, are vegetarians in india, in the states it is over 3% of the pop.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    ice cream made from coconut milk is actually quite good!
    Insanely, fabulously, desperately good, especially chocolate--likely because of the fat in coconut. Coconut in all of its forms is now the next big thing in health foods. Fine by me.
    Really like red lentils and sweet potatoes with Tasty Bite Good Korma Simmer Sauce or you could make your own korma sauce. Some have cream, some not:
    coconut, onions, tomatoes, cashews, garlic, ginger, chiles, turmeric, cardamom, clove, pepper, cinnamon, coriander.
    Have felt much better getting a daily fix of greens, usually bok choy or kale or Napa cabbage or similar + mixed salad greens.

  12. #87
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    For those of you on here that have made seitan, how does it compare to store bought seitan price wise? Also, how long does it keep?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    For those of you on here that have made seitan, how does it compare to store bought seitan price wise? Also, how long does it keep?
    I cheat and buy the vital wheat gluten. There are those hard core guys/gals that make it by filtering the flour to get the gluten (probably the same people that ride rigid SS). It usually runs me about 7 bucks for a lb. That single bag of vital wheat gluten will last me a month.
    Of course it took me a couple of bags to get the process down.

    And whatever you do, don't let the stuff get into your pipes. Seitan is tantamount to plaster when it gets in your plumbing

    Flavor-wise, price-wise and shelf-life wise making your own wins every time. The things you can do with it are innumerable. I also found that store bought seitan was way too salty.

    Besides, you have to make things like seitan reubens from scratch

  14. #89
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    I'm a vegetarian, and eat dairy fairly infrequently.
    I am also what most would consider an Extreme Libertarian.

    I value life, and the living's right to keep it.
    I only take and kill what is wholly necessary for my survival.
    If I were living in the woods, or as a hunter gatherer, or even an 18th century farmer, then I would absolutely be chowing down on some pig. The fact is though, that human ingenuity has created a Society so advanced that we can have our pick of an astonishing variety of food from around the world, just by going down the street to the grocery store.

    the average american has access to more than enough calories, vitamins and nutrients to lead an extremely healthy and active life without ever touching an animal product. You don't have to eat meat to live, but you cant eat only meat and survive very long. it just isn't a crucial thing to eat considering the modern food system. Since I live by the philosophy of "why kill something that you don't have to?" then that pretty much rules out meat.

    not to mention, I have worked on a dairy farm, and seen plenty of beef cattle and poultry operations in my life to know that most of the meat and dairy that people eat is from a factory farm. factory farms are horrifically disgusting places where pointless abuse is commonplace if not company policy. Most dairy farms let their cows stand in 6" deep ****, never let them out to pasture, then when they milk, there is ****, and dirt and blood and puss on the udders. that all goes into the milking equipment and mixes with the milk. I would rather eat meat and dairy from a place that I knew was a clean safe environment. I do eat dairy products from local farms. its not that hard to find local farms that have ethical clean environments, especially in this part of the country (upstate New York), and when you work in agriculture like myself.

    If you want to eat meat, it is your body, your philosophy, and your decision. I wont preach or ram my opinion down anyone's throat. the most I will do is talk to someone who asks. Remember, Im a "do whatever you want" libertarian.

    that said, if you believe that you can not lead a productive life as a vegetarian, you are plain un-informed on the subject. I have one of the most physically demanding labor intensive jobs, outside of a professional athlete that I can think of. I work regularly in triple digit heat, with heavy equipment, lifting 100+ lb objects all day, climbing things, jumping on and off semi trailers and just doing pain in the ass stuff all the time. honestly I have more stamina than all the guys who eat meat for lunch. they all want a nap in the afternoon because digesting meat requires a fair amount of energy. why do you think most large carnivorous animals are idle for periods after eating?

    Im an outdoorsy dude. I was an avid hunter until I became vegetarian. I frequently do multi day remote backpacking trips with my wife (who is a vegan). I obviously mountain bike. And If lost in the woods, would surely be able to survive better than most. basically I'm a redneck hippie, so the stereotype of whiney liberal ****** vegetarians is just a stereotype.
    Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by seemlessstate View Post
    I'm a vegetarian, and eat dairy fairly infrequently.
    I am also what most would consider an Extreme Libertarian.

    I value life, and the living's right to keep it.
    I only take and kill what is wholly necessary for my survival.
    If I were living in the woods, or as a hunter gatherer, or even an 18th century farmer, then I would absolutely be chowing down on some pig. The fact is though, that human ingenuity has created a Society so advanced that we can have our pick of an astonishing variety of food from around the world, just by going down the street to the grocery store.

    the average american has access to more than enough calories, vitamins and nutrients to lead an extremely healthy and active life without ever touching an animal product. You don't have to eat meat to live, but you cant eat only meat and survive very long. it just isn't a crucial thing to eat considering the modern food system. Since I live by the philosophy of "why kill something that you don't have to?" then that pretty much rules out meat.

    not to mention, I have worked on a dairy farm, and seen plenty of beef cattle and poultry operations in my life to know that most of the meat and dairy that people eat is from a factory farm. factory farms are horrifically disgusting places where pointless abuse is commonplace if not company policy. Most dairy farms let their cows stand in 6" deep ****, never let them out to pasture, then when they milk, there is ****, and dirt and blood and puss on the udders. that all goes into the milking equipment and mixes with the milk. I would rather eat meat and dairy from a place that I knew was a clean safe environment. I do eat dairy products from local farms. its not that hard to find local farms that have ethical clean environments, especially in this part of the country (upstate New York), and when you work in agriculture like myself.

    If you want to eat meat, it is your body, your philosophy, and your decision. I wont preach or ram my opinion down anyone's throat. the most I will do is talk to someone who asks. Remember, Im a "do whatever you want" libertarian.

    that said, if you believe that you can not lead a productive life as a vegetarian, you are plain un-informed on the subject. I have one of the most physically demanding labor intensive jobs, outside of a professional athlete that I can think of. I work regularly in triple digit heat, with heavy equipment, lifting 100+ lb objects all day, climbing things, jumping on and off semi trailers and just doing pain in the ass stuff all the time. honestly I have more stamina than all the guys who eat meat for lunch. they all want a nap in the afternoon because digesting meat requires a fair amount of energy. why do you think most large carnivorous animals are idle for periods after eating?

    Im an outdoorsy dude. I was an avid hunter until I became vegetarian. I frequently do multi day remote backpacking trips with my wife (who is a vegan). I obviously mountain bike. And If lost in the woods, would surely be able to survive better than most. basically I'm a redneck hippie, so the stereotype of whiney liberal ****** vegetarians is just a stereotype.
    Brothers from a different mother, my friend. Props!

  16. #91
    mikeb
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    "If you want to eat meat, it is your body, your philosophy, and your decision. I wont preach or ram my opinion down anyone's throat. the most I will do is talk to someone who asks. Remember, Im a "do whatever you want" libertarian. "

    we need more people in the world like you...

  17. #92
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    I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with eating animal products except that these days we live on a very polluted planet and the farther up the food chain you eat the more concentrated crap you are directly taking into your body along with the crap you can't avoid by living in the environment. Plus excess cholesterol may not be a good thing but that jury is still out, apparently.

    I'm not saying any of it will kill you right off but most people die of cancer so I like to limit exposure where I can.

    I still eat meat but limit my intake. I have no religious or moral issues with eating meat either. All primates eat meat when they can get it and if we hadn't had the high caloric boost from eating it back in the early days we would not have been able to prosper and evolve as we did.

    To answer a question about why you would want to eat Tofurkey? It may not be as good as turkey but it's not bad and if you make a sandwich with it along with the other things you might add to it the Tofukey adds some (good) texture and taste that would not be there if it was all vegetables. Adds some protein too. So it tastes pretty good and you get to cut out some of the animal product from your diet. Veganaise is good stuff too. No cholesterol.

    For those who think eating fish and chicken is way better for you then beef do a little research on what the conditions are like on large scale poultry farms where almost all the non organic stuff comes from; then do a little research on what pollutants are in the oceans. Organic grass fed beef may not look so bad anymore.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikojan View Post
    Beef isn't red meat, its black and white...idiot.
    I hear your Mama callin' litttle boy, let the grown ups talk now.

  19. #94
    High Desert MTBer
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    Quote Originally Posted by seemlessstate View Post
    I'm a vegetarian, and eat dairy fairly infrequently.
    I am also what most would consider an Extreme Libertarian.

    I value life, and the living's right to keep it.
    I only take and kill what is wholly necessary for my survival.
    If I were living in the woods, or as a hunter gatherer, or even an 18th century farmer, then I would absolutely be chowing down on some pig. The fact is though, that human ingenuity has created a Society so advanced that we can have our pick of an astonishing variety of food from around the world, just by going down the street to the grocery store.

    the average american has access to more than enough calories, vitamins and nutrients to lead an extremely healthy and active life without ever touching an animal product. You don't have to eat meat to live, but you cant eat only meat and survive very long. it just isn't a crucial thing to eat considering the modern food system. Since I live by the philosophy of "why kill something that you don't have to?" then that pretty much rules out meat.

    not to mention, I have worked on a dairy farm, and seen plenty of beef cattle and poultry operations in my life to know that most of the meat and dairy that people eat is from a factory farm. factory farms are horrifically disgusting places where pointless abuse is commonplace if not company policy. Most dairy farms let their cows stand in 6" deep ****, never let them out to pasture, then when they milk, there is ****, and dirt and blood and puss on the udders. that all goes into the milking equipment and mixes with the milk. I would rather eat meat and dairy from a place that I knew was a clean safe environment. I do eat dairy products from local farms. its not that hard to find local farms that have ethical clean environments, especially in this part of the country (upstate New York), and when you work in agriculture like myself.

    If you want to eat meat, it is your body, your philosophy, and your decision. I wont preach or ram my opinion down anyone's throat. the most I will do is talk to someone who asks. Remember, Im a "do whatever you want" libertarian.

    that said, if you believe that you can not lead a productive life as a vegetarian, you are plain un-informed on the subject. I have one of the most physically demanding labor intensive jobs, outside of a professional athlete that I can think of. I work regularly in triple digit heat, with heavy equipment, lifting 100+ lb objects all day, climbing things, jumping on and off semi trailers and just doing pain in the ass stuff all the time. honestly I have more stamina than all the guys who eat meat for lunch. they all want a nap in the afternoon because digesting meat requires a fair amount of energy. why do you think most large carnivorous animals are idle for periods after eating?

    Im an outdoorsy dude. I was an avid hunter until I became vegetarian. I frequently do multi day remote backpacking trips with my wife (who is a vegan). I obviously mountain bike. And If lost in the woods, would surely be able to survive better than most. basically I'm a redneck hippie, so the stereotype of whiney liberal ****** vegetarians is just a stereotype.
    Good post. Thank you for putting it so well. Are you a roadie? And I do not use the term in any derogatory way, I just have spent 35 years in the music touring business, and your description sounds very like what I have seen all these years... I know how physically and mentally demanding it can be. (When I say 'roadie' I mean as in a non-cycling way!)
    Last edited by rockerc; 08-14-2011 at 04:57 PM.

  20. #95
    nocturnal oblivion
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    I've been doing the pesco-vegetarian thing for a few months now. Hats off to those who stick to it. I've had to cheat a number of times when dining at other's houses and meat is for dinner. I don't want to be picky and not be invited back. Of course my gf makes an announcement about it and I have to explain that it's not a big deal.
    Like Kermit said, "It's not easy being green (different)"
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  21. #96
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    My wife has been vegetarian (ovo-lacto) for 25 years, so we don't cook meat at home. I just eat it when out (had a nice rib eye for a special anniversary treat tonight in fact!). But due to high cholesterol I'm mostly off red meat eggs cheese etc. Thank goodness I like fish.

  22. #97
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    I have huge respect for vege people. My two close friends are vegans, and the discipline of vegan life spreads to discipline in other regions. They are never late to work, they are always organised, etc.

    That being said, these are two of my bottom line thoughts regarding vege diet.

    A) it is not natural. You cannot spontaneously decide not to eat animal products when we have been eating them for millions of years. There are replacement products, yes. Replacement. I think (maybe I'm wrong) but the human society yet has to see a person who lived his entire life being vegan and had no complications whatsoever because of it. Be it during pregnancy, old age, recovery from sickness etc. Show me a family that lived vege life for generations, and you convinced me.

    B) You are not fighting meat industry. Even if 20% of 1st world county population were vege, that will only make meat industry work harder with their buyers to put more meat into other 80%. By pure "coincidence" will McDonalds make a sandwich with meat and bacon and extra meat. Screw it, make buns out of meat. You cannot fight meat industry. Being vege out of rebellion against meat industry makes you like those folks who are anti-capitalist anti-corporate, yet on rallies they come in Dr.Martiens boots, Levis 501, Gap shirts with Che Guevara print. Of course, they organised event via iPhone, over Facebook. Vege lifestyle is a product of marketing, and you know it. Food industry wanted to make more money, so they shoved some guerilla marketing commercials into your head how you have to fight animal abuse, stop getting fat in Burger King. "Here, don't eat meat, eat this instead. And, oh, that food is harder to come by, +50% price, sorry. Be a good rebel, pay more!"
    Daemon
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  23. #98
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    Man, the irony. As I posted this, I saw an article about vegan parents killing their baby through malnutrition.

    Google Translate
    Daemon
    "Worship the Machines."
    www.nivas.hr | www.worship.hr

  24. #99
    mikeb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post
    I have huge respect for vege people. My two close friends are vegans, and the discipline of vegan life spreads to discipline in other regions. They are never late to work, they are always organised, etc.

    That being said, these are two of my bottom line thoughts regarding vege diet.

    A) it is not natural. You cannot spontaneously decide not to eat animal products when we have been eating them for millions of years. There are replacement products, yes. Replacement. I think (maybe I'm wrong) but the human society yet has to see a person who lived his entire life being vegan and had no complications whatsoever because of it. Be it during pregnancy, old age, recovery from sickness etc. Show me a family that lived vege life for generations, and you convinced me.

    B) You are not fighting meat industry. Even if 20% of 1st world county population were vege, that will only make meat industry work harder with their buyers to put more meat into other 80%. By pure "coincidence" will McDonalds make a sandwich with meat and bacon and extra meat. Screw it, make buns out of meat. You cannot fight meat industry. Being vege out of rebellion against meat industry makes you like those folks who are anti-capitalist anti-corporate, yet on rallies they come in Dr.Martiens boots, Levis 501, Gap shirts with Che Guevara print. Of course, they organised event via iPhone, over Facebook. Vege lifestyle is a product of marketing, and you know it. Food industry wanted to make more money, so they shoved some guerilla marketing commercials into your head how you have to fight animal abuse, stop getting fat in Burger King. "Here, don't eat meat, eat this instead. And, oh, that food is harder to come by, +50% price, sorry. Be a good rebel, pay more!"
    outstanding post. i am not allowed to give away any more rep today. maybe tomorrow.

  25. #100
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    All discussion aside and to get back to the OP's question: I've been a vegan for about three years now. My favourite recipe (or one of them, at least):

    burrito wraps filled with little chunks of grilled tofu (nicely covered with ground pepper and celery seeds) and a mixture of avocado paste, cucumber, tomatoes, onions, paprikas and olive oil. Cover with your favourite type of lettuce before wrapping it all up :P

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