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  1. #1
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    Training/fitness advice needed

    Hi All,

    I'm after some advice about my current commute/training regime as although I am getting much, much fitter, I am not seeing any change in fat burn/weight loss. I'm 35, 5'10" and 210lbs.

    Since July when I started cycling again properly (after 7+ years out from daily riding) I've done 1500kms+, am *much, much* fitter (and constantly improving) but I have lost zero lbs. Nothing.

    I have toned up my legs a lot, back, but still carry a fair bit of timber around my middle (I am not grossly fat, but I am chubby).

    I commute about 10km each way to work. As I am in Switzerland, I do a trail with a few hills etc, 80% on woodland trails/firetrails, 20% tarmac. Strava reports I burn ~550 calories a day on the bike (often more depending on the route), much more at the weekends on long runs (usually 1k+). I also swim a few times a week and do some gym work (shown as 600 calories+ each time on cross trainer, rowing machine and weights).

    Diet wise, I eat ~1700-2200 calories a day during the week. (At the weekends I am so busy with the kids, around the house, I often eat ~1500):

    Breakfast: 8am, Porridge with honey, small bowl of fruit salad
    Lunch: 12 noon, small plate of lean meat with veg or 2-3 small slices of pizza (I know, but it is free at work! ) with a small desert
    Dinner: 6.30-7pm, maybe tuna with low fat mayo wrap or toast.

    Drinks: 1 glass freshly squeezed orange in the morning, ~2-3 litres of water throughout the day, 4-5 cups of coffee (black, 1 sugar)

    This week I bought a HRM to connect to my iPhone and Strava, and find I have a 140bpm average heart rate on my runs, topping out at 160+ bpm after hills/climbs.

    I love to ride hard, but I am wondering if I am outside the optimum fat burning range? could this be one reason why I am not trimming down?

    I experimented today to try and keep my heart rate average lower, but I just couldn't ride like that all the time!

    Any advice on what to change would be very much appreciated!

    Cheers,

    Marc

  2. #2
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    Hi, The first places your body starts to store fat are the last places you will loose it. With men it tends to be around the gut. From your post I'd say that you're gaining muscle while loosing fat and the scale knows not.
    Try eating 1/2 your lunch at noon and the other 1/2 between lunch and your dinner time. Also add a small meal before bed and make it a slowly digesting one which includes proteins. Cottage cheese with some berries is just about the best but there's many other options. This will speed your metab and keep it there, as well as support your muscle growth which again will speed your metab because muscle, or the more you have, speeds your metab even at rest. To get the most from this method you should try to eat every 3 hours or so. If you're not upping your calories by adding more meals you will know in a few months time how effective this method is going to be for you.
    Then there's plain and simple cutting down on calories which of coarse can be done with or without the method mentioned above. From your post you say that your getting and feeling stronger but cut too many calories and that will change, so it's up to you to find that balance. Sounds like you're over that tipping point now with the calories you're consuming since your not loosing too much fat and feel fine for exercise.

    As for training...Some will say that to burn the most calories you should be in that perfect target hr, I say poppycock. Because that doesn't account for how many calories you're burning after your exercise which goes way up with intensity, nor that training at varied heart rates makes you fitter which in itself burns calories, as well as helps you train harder.
    Round and round we go

  3. #3
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    People seldom lose weight by exercising. You end up replacing lost fat with increased muscle mass -- net result no change in total body weight. You have a healthier weight with more lean mass and less fat, with same numbers showing on the scale.

    The only 'exercise' that results in weight loss is push-aways at the dinner table. The key is do not try to lose too much too soon. A radical starvation diet usually results in less weight loss as your body adapts to reduced caloric intake and your basal metabolic rate decreases. Exercising with an ultra low calorie diet may help maintain a higher BMR, however you may not be eating enough to maintain the exercise.
    There are several different formulas to determine your basal caloric needs. Whichever you use aim for no more than 10% fewer calories.
    So many trails... so little time...

  4. #4
    247
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    I will tell you exactly how to lose weight!---EAT THIS EXACTLY (I lost 80lbs doing it)---

    Monday to Thursday (breakfast is ORGANIC steel cut oats and Organic Blueberries), lunch and dinner eat organic chicken and wild Alaskan salmon (with ONLY organic broccoli and spinach)----NO FRUIT JUICES, NO CARBS AFTER BREAKFAST, NOTHING WHITE!!!! Drink water for breakfast with Organic Apple Cider Vinegar.. Snacks are organic fruit and Unsweetened Almond Milk (organic peanut butter also)-----

    NO DAIRY!!!! cut that crap out...

    Friday to Sunday for breakfast (whole eggs, ORGANIC)--lunch and dinner MEAT (Buffalo, Bison for lunch)--WITH Same organic veggies.. Dinner Chicken Strips with peppers, onions, shitake mushrooms.. (EAT ORGANIC!!)---cut out the pesticides and fungicides and herbicides in your system (THE GUT and Extra weight will go!!)---

    ALSO drink about 1 gallon of H2O EACH DAY!!!---and NO bottled water!!!! ONLY Tap (with a filter system like BRITA)-----trust me.. I am like a decade older than you (same height) and went from 280 to 180.... small portions spaced out throughout the day..

    ----cut out the carbs, juices, ALL THE PROCESSED CRAP!!!--no rice, bread.. EAT ALMOST PALEO like!!!!---
    Last edited by 247; 11-18-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  5. #5
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    I realize the above post is satirical.

    Just for entertainment purposes I ran it through the USDA web site Supertracker. You did not specify serving sizes or how the food was prepared, so I had to guess at some of the values.

    Basically, the above diet as written is just under 1000 calories per day (based on my estimated serving sizes.). That is the reason you lost the weight -- not the food choices themselves. If you eat only 1000 calories per day of pure sugar you will lose weight (not recommended).

    A bit heavy on the protein, but not bad. Light on veggies and fruits. I would reduce the meat component a bit add a greater variety of veggies. Add a small serving (<2-3 oz) of lean red meat very other week/once per month. If the dinner/lunch is cooked with oils you are OK on the fatty acids. If cooked without oils, add some more nuts/seeds. You are way light on whole grains.

    Mostly OK on vitamins. A bit light on retinol (vit A) and folate. Light on minerals. Add a daily multivitamin and you will have it covered.

    you make a point of emphasizing no carbs after breakfast. Fruits and veggies contain carbs. I am assuming you meant no bread/pastas. Because the diet is light on whole grains I would suggest adding some whole grain pasta or similar a few meals per week.

    You also emphasize no dairy. Unless you are lactose intolerant or some other allergy there is no reason to eliminate dairy and a lot of reasons to add some to your diet. Skim or 1% milk is fine (1 cup every other day or so.) I don't like the taste of skim, so I make 0.5% by mixing.

    If the fruit or veggie has a skin or peel you remove and throw away there is no need to eat organic. Conventional is fine for those foods. There also is no nutritional advantage of steel cut over regular oatmeal -- nutritionally identical. If you prefer the slightly different taste/texture, then buy what you prefer. The only difference comes from whatever you add to give it flavor.

    No nutritional differences between organic or conventional grown foods, either. A lot of food faddies don't like to hear this, but the global science is pretty solid on that point. Some, but not all, organic produce have less chemical residues, however no difference in nutrition content. We are heading into winter, when the majority of our fresh produce is imported from tropical and southern hemisphere countries. Organic labeling is unreliable from foreign countries. Different countries have different definitions of 'organic' and spotty track records of enforcing the regulations they do have. Assurances from the distributor or importer are next to useless. There is also a lengthy list of insecticides and pesticides allowed to be sprayed on organic produce and still be labeled organic. One of them is BT toxin -- the same BT found in Monsanto's GMO corn.

    In summary, the diet is close to the recommended diet published by the USDA Food and Nutrition Service, and the recommendations of other countries -- all very similar BTW (There is no multinational conspiracy of dairy farmers, ranchers, and corporate food manufacturers controlling the USDA and every ministry of health or agriculture in every developed country in the world. That is tin foil beanie talk).

    Except add more calories.

    The key take away points are eat less processed foods and eat a wide variety of foods. There is no need to exclude a whole category of foods from your diet. Watch the serving sizes and watch the ratios.

    A healthy diet can also include the (rare) occasional double bacon cheeseburger and chocolate shake. You gotta enjoy life too!
    So many trails... so little time...

  6. #6
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    Ride on an empty stomach, your body will fuel the workout with straight body fat instead. Keep the intensity moderate, or else you will bonk hard. Make sure you carb and protein load within an hour post-workout....or else your body will switch to catabolizing muscle mass.
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  7. #7
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    Many thanks for the tips everyone - Lots of things to think about, and tons of ideas for how to make changes!

    Very much appreciated!

  8. #8
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    Your rides are too short to really burn any fat, the key to burning fat is long a slow/medium pace riding, not short and fast. When the body is pushed too hard is will dig into muscles stores if your glycogen is depleted. As to weight loss, as another mentioned, you won't likely see weight loss as much as size loss, as when exercising the fat is being lost, but muscle also is being built, which weighs more than lost fat.

    As was suggested above, you're eating too infrequently, you need to split up your big meals into 5-7 smaller meals throughout the day - breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, tea, diner, snack - and make sure you're never hungry, your body will store fat if you starve yourself. Eat small amounts every couple hours so your body is only getting what it needs to fuel itself and nothing more to store as fat.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  9. #9
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    Gotta say that there's some good post and, couch cough Dave, knows areally lot about foods, probably more then I'd ever want to know, as well as great, imo healthy, common sense acceptance/appreciation of all foods. No one brought up cycling/timing carbs which can be hugely effective for some. Also don't really get how some can be so strict and know what they want for breakfast 2-3 days out but whatever, I'm sure it makes your grocery list easier lol. Will also add that people start to burn fat or muscle and at different rates, and at different intensity levels at different times, but there are some generalizations/guide lines that can should be followed. Which brings me to touching on your training some more.
    Your diet is pretty clean but leaves a few holes that can be filled, but your exercise seems sufficient to chisel yourself a nice physique. Althou we don't know the details of that training. Don't know your thinking on it now but try to base your training around this. When you want to build strength go in fed, and go hard but keep it under 50-60 min or so. In general the more exhausted you are after that 50-60 the more effective that emphasis on stronger/faster is, and of coarse you should have a few min warm up before. This way you were able to push harder/ get the most of your traing because you had food for fuel and at this point it's also used up. So this is when you do cardio and you'll start using stores right away instead of 20-30 min in as you would if fed. Always eat after exercise and it's best to eat within an hour for most, but for some think that window is much smaller.
    Round and round we go

  10. #10
    247
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    got rid of this post (hope yall read it..)
    Last edited by 247; 11-19-2013 at 09:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Log off and go ride!
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    Everyone here has already pegged you as a trolling bomb thrower who just makes outrageous and ridiculous posts solely to provoke a reaction.

    You lost trolling credibility when you went over the top with the pathetic Vatican/Area 51/Jesse Ventura reference.
    So many trails... so little time...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Everyone here has already pegged you as a trolling bomb thrower who just makes outrageous and ridiculous posts solely to provoke a reaction.

    You lost trolling credibility when you went over the top with the pathetic Vatican/Area 51/Jesse Ventura reference.
    Wow, cured cancer and baldness, what a genius, then I just couldn't read any more. Absolutely the biggest bunch of bs I ever saw posted on mtbr. The pics of the cupboards ? idk what to say but they say enough. At least he's right about the lack of satire, that's straight up psycho with some scary throw in.
    Round and round we go

  13. #13
    247
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    Yeah Yeah whatever.. I know I'm correct (no satire here)---

    --No trolling (I just speak the truth..)---but glad you read it, now I have to take it off....

    But really, I did speak the truth my brothers (you will recognize it someday..)

    Say Damn, 247 was right...

  14. #14
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    I did read most of the post, didn't follow any links. But you say there's a ****-ton of illegal chemicals in Gatoraide, but you still drink it for electrolytes?

  15. #15
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    Didn't read most of it neither. Didn't take too much reading to figure it was troll attempt and a bad one at that. if you really believe that nonsense i feel bad for you, and if it was so right then why remove it? Too bad no one quoted it, then it would have been preserved, guess no one cared enough. either way I'd guess it won't be long before we get another winner.
    Round and round we go

  16. #16
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    Holy sh!t that was an awesome post.

  17. #17
    247
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    why delete it, cause ********s such as yourself get all worked up when THE TRUTH is told... kinda ****s with your belief system.

    Aint no troll bro. don't text or none of that ********.. I just state the facts, and hyrt some *****es feeling sometimes..

    --I took it off cause when I keep getting email responses to my **** I reply (to a post where someone is asking for an opinion) ---and then folks bad rep me (pussies!)

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  18. #18
    AZ
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    Dude. If you truly believe in what you posted, by all means put it back up, own it. Don't let a bit of bumpy road discourage you from telling us the truth.

  19. #19
    247
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    I thought they got rid of the one really bad one..

    --but it is like drinking tap water still (with a filter)---but it is still tap water which could have pesticides, etc. in it (sometimes you just have to ingest some things bad for you---cause I make the powdered Gatorade and with my diet, I need the easy electrolytes.) that is why I mostly try to eat 99% healthy at home.. Moderation with the bad things you have to take in.. I had an organic farmer tell me that the acid rain gets into his crops so they are not free of chemicals??

    --but I hear what you are saying (you're right!)

  20. #20
    247
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    Dude. If you truly believe in what you posted, by all means put it back up, own it. Don't let a bit of bumpy road discourage you from telling us the truth.
    True True, but when soo many people get soo bent-outta shape, my threads get shut down (like this one..)--and I was asking something that I had 50 p.m.'s with people agreeing with me about this (but would not say it to mess up their rep points)---then the thread got shut down: you might get a kick out of this one:

    C'Mon NINER, Lower Those Prices!!!!

    I even had to delete half my posts (2 posts ago)---but everyone on here knows I ain't no internet bad guy!!---like I told Meat Head in the email he will get with my original message on it (if you are in Philly, you can p.m me--we can go from there, hash out our differing opinions in person..

    because I have way to many idots get soo bent outta shape with what I say I saw Grow Up!!!---I will say what I want to (free speech, bit--es!)---just don't read it....

  21. #21
    AZ
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    Well, I do have to point out that calling names because they don't agree with you isn't going to endear you to too many members and really is poor form, you may want to tone that down a bit.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc2211 View Post
    Hi All,

    I'm after some advice about my current commute/training regime as although I am getting much, much fitter, I am not seeing any change in fat burn/weight loss. I'm 35, 5'10" and 210lbs.

    Since July when I started cycling again properly (after 7+ years out from daily riding) I've done 1500kms+, am *much, much* fitter (and constantly improving) but I have lost zero lbs. Nothing.

    I have toned up my legs a lot, back, but still carry a fair bit of timber around my middle (I am not grossly fat, but I am chubby).

    I commute about 10km each way to work. As I am in Switzerland, I do a trail with a few hills etc, 80% on woodland trails/firetrails, 20% tarmac. Strava reports I burn ~550 calories a day on the bike (often more depending on the route), much more at the weekends on long runs (usually 1k+). I also swim a few times a week and do some gym work (shown as 600 calories+ each time on cross trainer, rowing machine and weights).

    Diet wise, I eat ~1700-2200 calories a day during the week. (At the weekends I am so busy with the kids, around the house, I often eat ~1500):

    Breakfast: 8am, Porridge with honey, small bowl of fruit salad
    Lunch: 12 noon, small plate of lean meat with veg or 2-3 small slices of pizza (I know, but it is free at work! ) with a small desert
    Dinner: 6.30-7pm, maybe tuna with low fat mayo wrap or toast.

    Drinks: 1 glass freshly squeezed orange in the morning, ~2-3 litres of water throughout the day, 4-5 cups of coffee (black, 1 sugar)

    This week I bought a HRM to connect to my iPhone and Strava, and find I have a 140bpm average heart rate on my runs, topping out at 160+ bpm after hills/climbs.

    I love to ride hard, but I am wondering if I am outside the optimum fat burning range? could this be one reason why I am not trimming down?

    I experimented today to try and keep my heart rate average lower, but I just couldn't ride like that all the time!

    Any advice on what to change would be very much appreciated!

    Cheers,

    Marc
    Like others said, it's all about the calories. There's no real magic to it, just eat fewer calories. The easiest way to do this is to eat nutrient rich foods. Meaning replace most of the carb's/protein and processed items with vegetables. Cutting protein and fat are the easiest way to cut calories. Most of us eat too much protein and fat is the very caloric with few nutrients.

    I agree with cutting the dairy. Not much nutrients in dairy. Calcium, yes, but you can get all the need calcium in green vegetables.

    The other best way to lose fat is to increase muscle mass. Do more strenght training. It won't help you cycling but it will increase your metabolic rate.

    BTW - Pizza is one of the worst nutrient foods on the planet.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Your rides are too short to really burn any fat, the key to burning fat is long a slow/medium pace riding, not short and fast. When the body is pushed too hard is will dig into muscles stores if your glycogen is depleted. As to weight loss, as another mentioned, you won't likely see weight loss as much as size loss, as when exercising the fat is being lost, but muscle also is being built, which weighs more than lost fat.

    As was suggested above, you're eating too infrequently, you need to split up your big meals into 5-7 smaller meals throughout the day - breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, tea, diner, snack - and make sure you're never hungry, your body will store fat if you starve yourself. Eat small amounts every couple hours so your body is only getting what it needs to fuel itself and nothing more to store as fat.
    Smaller meals are inconclusive based on studies. It does work for some but it's not a silver bullet not to mention it's very impractical if you are to a social life that revolves around 3 squares a day.

    The exact opposite is the warriors diet, one large meal a day, which too works well for some people.

  24. #24
    247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Well, I do have to point out that calling names because they don't agree with you isn't going to endear you to too many members and really is poor form, you may want to tone that down a bit.
    True, true... but sometimes you just have to vent (on fools here..)

  25. #25
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    Didn't read the post you're replying to, it's deleted.

    But a few points. There are many vegetables that are have pesticides in their meat. A good example of this is potatoes. They are sprayed about 5 times and the contaminants are not just on the skin but in the core of the vegetable. They cost next to nothing to buy organic. So, why not? A little research and you can find the organics worth buying over the non-organic.

    Steel cut oats have a better glycemic index over their counterparts. If you have the time to cook them, it's worth it. I personally don't, so I buy an old fashioned style of rolled oats. They take longer than the minute brand but are hearty enough for me. A better choice for breakfast would be a green leaf smoothy with some fruit, almond milk, ground flax seed, etc.

    Lastly, protein and dairy products are overrated. Most of us eat way more protein than needed. If you limit the protein you don't need the calcium intake. In Fact, many studies show that eating calcium doesn't equate to healthy bones. It's all about the acidity levels, exercise, and Vit. K...

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