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Thread: Syntheroid

  1. #1
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    Syntheroid

    Anyone have any insight on this testosterone booster?

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    That is not testosterone booster. It is a synthetic form of levothyroxine. Used as a replacement for people with hypothyroidism. I would not use it if you dont need it can cause serious problems in high levels in the body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rg1 View Post
    That is not testosterone booster. It is a synthetic form of levothyroxine. Used as a replacement for people with hypothyroidism. I would not use it if you dont need it can cause serious problems in high levels in the body.
    You are thinking of synthroid, it's different than syntheroid. Syntheroid is a testosterone booster, it's used by weight lifters, and is supposed to boost metabolism and sex drive as well. I don't lift, but am curious as to what effect it might have if I take it and continue to ride 4 times a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rg1 View Post
    That is not testosterone booster. It is a synthetic form of levothyroxine. Used as a replacement for people with hypothyroidism. I would not use it if you dont need it can cause serious problems in high levels in the body.
    No that's synthroid, syntheroid is a testosterone booster. Wondering what kind of effect it might have is I introduce it into my diet and continue to ride 4 times a week, any insight into this would be great...

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    Personally I think 9 out off 10 of these supplements are just b.s. This one seems like one of those because its just mixing a bunch of other known supplements, none of which are proven testosterone boosters.

    Unless they can first show benefit through a simple double blind study, which would cost less than the marketing, I don't even give em a second look because they are a dime a dozen. If they publish a study with methods, controls, data, etc, I would read it and reconsider but would want to see an independent third party recreate that. Unfortunately you almost never get that level of detail, just couple of bar charts claiming boost without any detail on methods or controls.

    Its monster cable for your body. 99.99% pure copper! Look at these charts that show God knows what!

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    Follow up: here's a study in testofen, one of the primary ingredients, in a peer reviewed journal (Phytotherapy Research):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21312304/

    "Serum prolactin and testosterone levels remained within the reference range."

    It does say there are libido benefits, but as far athletic performance goes, doesn't sound like any direct testosterone impact.

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    Just get some steroids and be done with it.
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    Before anyone sucks their panties up their arse, I was kidding. But seriously, 99% of the "GNC" crap is just that, crap. There's really no substitute for hard work, even when using a product, legal or otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Just get some steroids and be done with it.
    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Just get some steroids and be done with it.
    Get your levels tested by a doc that does hrt.....

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    Testosterone is essential for optimal health in both men and women. But you do NOT want to take more for improved athletic performance if your levels are OK.

    Agree that any OTC suppliment is probably useless. If you do need it, you do not want to take it orally -- very hard on the liver. You need injections or topical cream.

    Quote Originally Posted by 41ants View Post
    Get your levels tested by a doc that does hrt.....
    Exactly. If you are low, the next question is "why?". They will want to solve any underlying cause before giving you suppliments.

    Too much testosterone is worse than not enough. The stuff gets converted to estrogen. If you ARE low, and suppliment too much, your testicles will stop producing, and shrink.

    It wouldn't hurt to go to a Bioidenical Hormone Replacement Therapy doctor and get checked out, especially if you are getting on past middle-age. OTOH if you are not overweight and things are working OK in bed you are probably OK.

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    Hcg and anastrozle will take care of testicular atrophy and estrogen conversion. This is something you want to see a specialist for as most GP and internist are clueless about hrt. The acceptable range of T levels is also quite broad. Huge difference between low normal and high normal.... Also, I agree you need to find out why? If your body fat is high and you eat poorly like most people do and are highly stressed....

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    The acceptable range of T levels is also quite broad. Huge difference between low normal and high normal
    That typically is the case if you go to a urologist or GP. Your testosterone levels are low normal and your penis hasn't fallen off yet, so all is well as far as they are concerned. They give you a prescription for Viagra and send you on your way.

    bHRT doctors on the other hand tend to look at symptoms more than numbers and are more likely to do something to help in "borderline" cases than a urologist or GP.

    If your body fat is high and you eat poorly like most people do and are highly stressed....
    It's a catch-22. Your testosterone is low because your are fat and lazy and you are fat and lazy because youre testosterone is low.

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    keep it in your pants

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    It's a catch-22. Your testosterone is low because your are fat and lazy and you are fat and lazy because youre testosterone is low.
    There is no causal relationship, nor is there a catch 22.

    People eat poorly.

    People are fat.

    People are lazy.

    People have low testosterone.

    They are independent events. The person chooses all, aside from low testosterone.

    Never give people, or yourself, an excuse.

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    There are lots of natural test boosters on the market. I have been experimenting with them for the last year or so. My opinion is that some of them work, and there is medical data to on some ingredients to back up the claims.

    For example Stinging Nettle contains a lignan, (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran, that binds to steroid hormone binding globulin. the result is that SHBG can't bind testosterone so your free test goes up.
    Lignans interfering with 5 alpha-dihydrotestoster... [J Nat Prod. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

    D- Aspartic Acid, taken 3 grams a day increases testosterone and leutenizing hormone
    The role and molecular mechanism of D... [Reprod Biol Endocrinol. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

    Fadogia agrestis increases testosterone
    Aphrodisiac potentials of the aqueous extract... [Asian J Androl. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

    Bulbine Natalensis
    Anabolic and androgenic activities of Bulbine nat... [Pharm Biol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

    This syntheroid product contains Euyocomia longfolia (Long Jack or Tongkat Ali), which has been shown to boost test as well.

    Standardised water-soluble extract of Eurycoma lo... [Andrologia. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

    It also contains a bunch of other stuff which probably doesn't work, and tribulus terresteris, which is kind of controversial as to its effectiveness.

    Anyway, this Syntheroid product might do something but there are actually some killer test boosters on the market that would probably blow it away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    There are lots of natural test boosters on the market. I have been experimenting with them for the last year or so . ....................

    How are you doing this? Do you get your T tested at some point and then start taking one of the supplements and retest? Then lay off for a while, test again, switch supplement, retest etc etc etc. How is this possible in only one year?

    Seems hard to do this with only one subject.

    If your T is low, or you merely want it boosted, why not just start shooting up T? Seems far easier and less "error" prone to me.
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    If you have experienced low testosterone, the symptoms of it being low and the results of treating it are quite obvious.

    I agree the testing cycle would have to be quite long. It took about a month of injections before I noticed any difference. It would seem that suppliments that cause increased natural testosterone production would take even longer.

    Short-term exposure to additional testosterone has no effect. A woman can receive a blood transfusion from a man (whose blood has 30x more testosterone) and she won't notice a difference.

    OTOH, there are other chemicals besides testosterone that affect sexual and athletic performance, so the suppliments may be working but not actually increasing testosterone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    How are you doing this? Do you get your T tested at some point and then start taking one of the supplements and retest? Then lay off for a while, test again, switch supplement, retest etc etc etc. How is this possible in only one year?

    Seems hard to do this with only one subject.

    If your T is low, or you merely want it boosted, why not just start shooting up T? Seems far easier and less "error" prone to me.
    I wish I could do something like that but I don't have the time.
    When I say I',m experimenting, it means I'm taking these supplements and evaluating their effects subjectively. I have had one T test while taking supps and my T was about 25% higher than my previous 2 tests, and free T about 100% higher.

    As for shooting up T, it doesn't make sense for me. I don't want to shut myself down, and I don't want to cycle up and down or risk any of the cardiovascular, or other, side effects. I just want to feel better, and have a little boost. I think that some of the natural supps give me that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    OTOH, there are other chemicals besides testosterone that affect sexual and athletic performance, so the suppliments may be working but not actually increasing testosterone.

    Agreed. Which is part of the problem of trying to evaluate supplements subjectively. Some substances have been shown to boost libido, but not T. Libido boost could trick you into thinking your T is higher.
    But the libido boost is nice anyway

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    Well, that's great that the testosterone really went up as a result of taking something other than testosterone. Your testicles are fine, just some nutritional defiencies apparently. I know some people swear by fish oil, which makes sense since they're finding out vitimin D deficincies are commonplace.

    Just want to add that if everything else is OK and your testosterone is still low, supplimenting testosterone in sensible quantities (very little!) is not risky. It lowers your risk of heart attack, and your testicles won't shut down or shrink. No negative side effects at all.

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    my cousin is on a t supplement from his doctor. hes saying that the effects are really good.

    mood, energy and life in general has improved. im thinking i might get tested. i tried sam-e as a pick me up, i noticed a marked improvement, but it gave me gi problems, so i stopped it.

    as for taking drugs to improved weekend riding, why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Just want to add that if everything else is OK and your testosterone is still low, supplimenting testosterone in sensible quantities (very little!) is not risky. It lowers your risk of heart attack, and your testicles won't shut down or shrink. No negative side effects at all.
    I don't know that this is true. Guys with low T end up on T injections or androgel and they are shut down and must continue with the exogenous T for life.
    If your T is low and you supplement with exogenous T, the obvious result is that your body makes less.

    If you have any references that discuss supplemental T that does not suppress your natural production, I'd like to read more about it.

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    My understanding is that estrogen is the primay thing that regulates T production. Go look at the chart that shows the cycle where cholesterol converts to andros and corticols to understand why the body does this. ps I am certain this is a very simplistic view of thing and if your balls arn't working why do you care if they get shutdown? ps2 there is one reason, don't know how important it is tho.........ps3 You can always also take HGC
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    My understanding is that estrogen is the primay thing that regulates T production. Go look at the chart that shows the cycle where cholesterol converts to andros and corticols to understand why the body does this. ps I am certain this is a very simplistic view of thing and if your balls arn't working why do you care if they get shutdown? ps2 there is one reason, don't know how important it is tho.........ps3 You can always also take HGC
    I don't get your point about estrogen. It is also a steroid hormone that shares common metabolic pathways with testosterone, but it is regulated by your body separately. People who inject T or AAS throw off their bodys natural balance and can end up with estrogen problems, but again I don't see where this fits in with this conversation.

    In my case, my balls are working and I don't not have clinical low T. I just want a boost. The normal T level on a standard test is a range from about 300 to 1000, but obviously you will feel differently at 300 than at 1000, even though both will be considered "normal".

    Hcg does stimulate T production, but I have not heard of it as a stand alone long term solution for raising T. Men on HRT sometimes take Hcg to prevent testicular shrinkage, but I think its like 3 injections per week.

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    raise T, keep E low (via aramatase inhibitor) lessens worries about atrophy. Raising T leads to high E Because E is made from T. The body assumes T is too high when it see's elevated E, that was my point. Any thing you do to raise T is going to influence lowered natural T production, it is not just injecting T that you need to be worried about.

    Basically I disagree about them being regulated seperately, very intimately tied to one another.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    raise T, keep E low (via aramatase inhibitor) lessens worries about atrophy. Raising T leads to high E Because E is made from T. The body assumes T is too high when it see's elevated E, that was my point. Any thing you do to raise T is going to influence lowered natural T production, it is not just injecting T that you need to be worried about.

    Basically I disagree about them being regulated seperately, very intimately tied to one another.
    I doubt that natural T boosters raise T enough to cause an estrogen problem. When T is at supraphysiologic levels then yes, more will be aromatized to E. I'm thinking it could give a guy a boost from 400 to 600 as an example, still way within normal levels, but enough to notice some benefits of higher T

    I agree T and E are intimately tied to one another, but also separate, in that raising T does not automatically raise E and visa versa (if you stay within normal physiologic levels). Your body has feedback mechanisms for both to keep them within normal ranges. When T is way high from exogenous supplementation, more is converted to E, but then E gets too high, and your body has no recourse (except to shut down, which doesn't help since you are injecting it). That's part of the normal screw up caused by hormonal manipulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    I doubt that natural T boosters raise T enough to cause an estrogen problem. When T is at supraphysiologic levels then yes, more will be aromatized to E. I'm thinking it could give a guy a boost from 400 to 600 as an example, still way within normal levels, but enough to notice some benefits of higher T

    I agree T and E are intimately tied to one another, but also separate, in that raising T does not automatically raise E and visa versa (if you stay within normal physiologic levels). Your body has feedback mechanisms for both to keep them within normal ranges. When T is way high from exogenous supplementation, more is converted to E, but then E gets too high, and your body has no recourse (except to shut down, which doesn't help since you are injecting it). That's part of the normal screw up caused by hormonal manipulation.
    ok, perhaps, BUT if your not measuring you DON'T know.


    also, imo, 200 pts is huge via supplements
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    That's part of the normal screw up caused by hormonal manipulation.
    I dunno, I disagree, at least for "smart" people. Anyone with a lick of sense that goes to the trouble to shoot up T is gonna also be checking their E, and if it gets out of whack they are gonna then take an aromatase inhibitor. And those worried about shrinkage, and having balls that are actually working, can simply use one of several drugs to take care of that as well.

    QED.

    Also, I'm waiting to here about the supplement that will raise ya 200 pts and not cause E to rise by a proportionate amount. Also, seems like supplements are more expensive for the amount of T increase than shooting up T-Cyp.
    Nobody cares...........

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    Fascinating, If you have think you may have low T levels you see your Doc and have some lab tests.Did anyone notice all the info on this product is from syntheroid or testimonials? the folks selling this type of product have poor rep.....like bodybuilding.com. busted by the Feds

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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    ok, perhaps, BUT if your not measuring you DON'T know.


    also, imo, 200 pts is huge via supplements
    In this study, D-Apsartic Acid raised T 42%. That would mean if you started with T at 500, it would rise to 710.
    The role and molecular mechanism of D-aspartic acid in the release and synthesis of LH and testosterone in humans and rats

    I

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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    I dunno, I disagree, at least for "smart" people. Anyone with a lick of sense that goes to the trouble to shoot up T is gonna also be checking their E, and if it gets out of whack they are gonna then take an aromatase inhibitor. And those worried about shrinkage, and having balls that are actually working, can simply use one of several drugs to take care of that as well.

    QED.
    I agree with all that. But, "the normal screw up of hormonal manipulation" I mentioned is still there, and still real. You shut yourself down and screw up your HPTA, then try to synthetically manipulate hormone levels to mimic homeostatis. But its not homeostasis.
    It seems you are trying to sell the idea that shooting yourself up with 3 or 4 different drugs every week for the rest of your life, in order to maintain high T levels while fighting shrunken balls and growing tits and emotional and sexual ups and downs is "easier" than taking a supplement. I'm not buying it.
    If I had low T I would do what I had to do. HRT/TRT is a good alternative for a lot of people. But shutting down a healthy endocrine system in my mind, is a bad idea and steroid abuse. I'm no puritan and I don't want to get into the ethical question of whether people should juice or not, I'm just saying that your attitude of "just shoot up T and shut yourself down ...its easier" is just stupid. That's my opinion.

    Also, I'm waiting to here about the supplement that will raise ya 200 pts and not cause E to rise by a proportionate amount. Also, seems like supplements are more expensive for the amount of T increase than shooting up T-Cyp.
    Lots of guys get on TRT and do not need AI's. 2 guys can be on the same dose of T and one can have normal E levels and the other can have high E. People metabolize it differently. If your metabolism is properly functioning, and T is within the normal range, than E should also be in the normal range, so I don't know what you are getting at.

    If TRT is covered by insurance then it is very cheap. That's true, but that's not a good reason to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    I'm just saying that your attitude of "just shoot up T and shut yourself down ...its easier" is just stupid. That's my opinion.
    Wow. That's your take away of my ramblings? I thought I was saying just exactly the opposite. Did you not notice my insistence on testing? I NEVER suggested it was easy.
    I also NEVER said to just shoot up T, I think if you go back I said it is more difficult than that.

    My point is this, just because you say supplements are "natural" does not mean it is easy nor that they are incapable of causing the issues you seem to be railing against. That's the main gist of what I am saying. I hear, on this thread, people saying they are "playing" with supplements, you claim that people can see a 200 pt T increase AND you also claim, rightfully so, that that is significant. What if some bloke herein takes a supplement, sees a huge increase in T and for some reason sees his estrogen spike? What's he gonna do? When will he know about it? I'd venture a guess that this person will also not likely be the type to be under regular medical care and as such won't know about it for a good while.

    I agree with you, so much so that I don't think people should be "playing" with 'em. (Unless play means they are testing.)

    I think, oddly enough, we likely agree. It is almost as though we violently agree.

    PSA: If any of you want to "play" a little more diligently you can get yourself tested w/o a Dr. at lef.org. Go to product, blood testing. Be safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    I don't get your point about estrogen. It is also a steroid hormone that shares common metabolic pathways with testosterone, but it is regulated by your body separately. People who inject T or AAS throw off their bodys natural balance and can end up with estrogen problems, but again I don't see where this fits in with this conversation.

    In my case, my balls are working and I don't not have clinical low T. I just want a boost. The normal T level on a standard test is a range from about 300 to 1000, but obviously you will feel differently at 300 than at 1000, even though both will be considered "normal".

    Hcg does stimulate T production, but I have not heard of it as a stand alone long term solution for raising T. Men on HRT sometimes take Hcg to prevent testicular shrinkage, but I think its like 3 injections per week.
    I read this post and the ones after it and have some comments.

    Lutenizing Hormone is the primary chemical that controls testosterone production. If you have symptoms of low testosterone, they check your LH. If it is low there is some underlying cause, not the testicles themselves. This is called secondary hypogonadism. But as is more likely the case (at least in middle-aged and older men) is that the LH will be high and testosterone will be low. Your body is saying GIVE ME MORE but the testicles just aren't producing enough. This is primary hypogonadism. Sounds like a religion .

    So if you have primary hypogonadism and take a sane amount of extra etestosterone, your testicles will continue to produce and nothing bad happens. "Testosterone Replacement Therapy" sounds scary. And it is if that is what you were actually doing. And that probably is what you are actually doing if you are taking it just to enhance athletic performance.

    But for guys who need it to make their wives happy and have a little fun, that isn't what they are doing. They are supplimenting an insufficient hormone, much like a Black guy living up north taking vitimin D because his body isn't making enough on its own. If you are low and treat it, besides getting back a normal sex life, you will also feel better, lose weight, and your riding ability will improve. But that's just being normal, not really enhancing performance beyond what is normal for a healthy man.

    Most men if not all men on testosterone takes zinc to control estrogen conversion. Not a bad idea for everyone actually, Be sure to take copper too because zinc tends to deplete copper. DIM is good too. But you don't want to take too much DIM, as some estrogen is necessary for normal morning erections.

    The "normal" range of testosterone is a joke. I don't know where they come up with those numbers. I was at 300. It isn't normal. Normal varies from individual to individual of course, but very few guys will be able to function in bed at 300. My dad is 80 years old and is a lot higher than that.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    I read this post and the ones after it and have some comments.

    Lutenizing Hormone is the primary chemical that controls testosterone production. If you have symptoms of low testosterone, they check your LH. If it is low there is some underlying cause, not the testicles themselves. This is called secondary hypogonadism. But as is more likely the case (at least in middle-aged and older men) is that the LH will be high and testosterone will be low. Your body is saying GIVE ME MORE but the testicles just aren't producing enough. This is primary hypogonadism. Sounds like a religion .

    So if you have primary hypogonadism and take a sane amount of extra etestosterone, your testicles will continue to produce and nothing bad happens. "Testosterone Replacement Therapy" sounds scary. And it is if that is what you were actually doing. And that probably is what you are actually doing if you are taking it just to enhance athletic performance.

    But for guys who need it to make their wives happy and have a little fun, that isn't what they are doing. They are supplimenting an insufficient hormone, much like a Black guy living up north taking vitimin D because his body isn't making enough on its own. If you are low and treat it, besides getting back a normal sex life, you will also feel better, lose weight, and your riding ability will improve. But that's just being normal, not really enhancing performance beyond what is normal for a healthy man.

    Most men if not all men on testosterone takes zinc to control estrogen conversion. Not a bad idea for everyone actually, Be sure to take copper too because zinc tends to deplete copper. DIM is good too. But you don't want to take too much DIM, as some estrogen is necessary for normal morning erections.

    The "normal" range of testosterone is a joke. I don't know where they come up with those numbers. I was at 300. It isn't normal. Normal varies from individual to individual of course, but very few guys will be able to function in bed at 300. My dad is 80 years old and is a lot higher than that.
    If you have any kind of citation to support this idea of testosterone supplementation without shutting down, I would like to read more about it.

    I have never heard of such a strategy, and really can't imagine how it could work. If your production is low, and you add exogenous T, it seems inevitable that production will go lower. And that seems to lead to shut down.
    Guys on TRT shut down, and its not because they raise their levels too high. I think the last Androgel study I read, the subjects averaged somewhere around 550 or 600 after treatment. So even with this moderate level of supplementation it seems shutdown is inevitable.

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    I cannot find an authoritative online source to support my position.

    The spec sheet for testosterone cypionate says "Do not suddenly stop using testosterone if you have been using it regularly for an extended time or if it has been used in high doses. In such cases, your body will no longer make its own testosterone, and withdrawal reactions (such as tiredness, weakness, depression) may occur."
    testosterone cypionate IM : Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Pictures, Warnings & Dosing - WebMD

    However, testicular shrinkage is not mentioned as a side effect of TRT.
    Testosterone Replacement Therapy: Testosterone Injections, Patches, Gels, and More

    They do say "Testosterone replacement so far seems to be generally safe. Experts emphasize that the benefits and risks of long-term testosterone therapy are unknown, because large clinical trials haven't yet been done." I think that is the crux of the matter. The mainstream medical community just doesn't know that much about it yet.

    My opinions are formed from discussions with my doctor, personal experience, and discussion with other men on TRT. My doctor mentioned testicular shutdown and shrinkage as something to keep an eye on, but I did not gather that it is a big concern. I have discussed this with about two dozen men, and it is not a major problem or concern there either. One reported shrinkage, a few take HCG as a precaution, but basically it isn't an issue. The guy I know who has been on it the longest has only been on it about 6 years, but so far so good.

    Here are some posts along these lines:
    testicular atrophy with trt?
    http://www.blurtit.com/q603827.

    TRT does not cause total testicular shutdown. During my 2nd year on TRT, my testosterone levels went up 100 points, with no change of my dosage. I lost weight, and problems causing stress that helped bring this on in the first place improved. Even with TRT, better health and mental state caused them to produce more. I have decreased my dosage. Thinking about it logically, if TRT causes total testicular shutdown, then all men would be on basically the same dosage, and that isn't the case at all.

    I don't know if there is less natural production with TRT or not. We can't assume that abnormally high levels of LH & FSH cause more production than normal levels. But assuming that natural production does decrease, shrinkage is not a given. Size is not necessarily related to production level. A 50-year-old guy will produce less than an 18-year-old, but his testicles do not shrink between age 18 and 50.

    Anyway, I'm not a doctor or anything -- just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. If you aren't overweight and things are great in bed, you're probably fine. It wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on your testosterone levels if you're getting older, but if you just want to ride better, just do it more. The sacrifices we have to make to stay healthy .

    But if you are overweight and just can't lose those last several pounds without starving yourself, or are having erectile difficulty or low drive, get it checked out. If you need TRT and your testicles don't shrink, great. If they do, take HCG.

    BTW, you will have better results with a good bioidentical Hormone Replacement Specialist than a urologist. They know more about hormones and will be better able to identify and treat thyriod and other hormonal issues, and are more concerned with overall quality of life than just your ability to have sex. Look in the yellow pages for "compounding pharmacies", call, and ask for physician referrals. There is also these folks who are nationwide: Hormone Replacement Therapy - Hormone Therapy - BodyLogicMD
    Last edited by DennisF; 10-28-2012 at 07:37 PM.

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