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Thread: healthy carbs?

  1. #1
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    healthy carbs?

    Been tring to burn some belly fat latley. Stopped eating fatty lunches and replaced with protien powder. Seemed ok untill i realized i was having a hard time riding up the big hills to and from work.

    So i had some pasta and the next 2-3 days i was all good. Didnt feel tired during the day. I dont want to go nuts on pasta so what would you guys recomend for healy cards to supplement the protien? And what to eat after a big ride(had some protien powder but read I should do a 3:1 carb to protien)

    Also would like to know more about carb loading before a race

    Thanks

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    Post exercise fuel should be carb heavy. Your glycogen is depleted. Your muscle cells will not recover unless the glycogen is recovered. Hence the 3:1 ratio. Some researchers claim 4: or 5:1, others 2:1. I don't get into quibbling over the exact number, just be carb heavy at first. After an hour or so eat a protein heavy meal.

    Carbo loading is controversial. Some swear by it, others point out current research suggests it is a myth that gains no benefit. If it works for you then stick with it.

    Sports nutrition research is getting real interesting. Some very good research from abroad is showing ordinary off the shelf food eaten at the right time, and the right combinations and ratios, will outperform supplement pills and powders. Also research from abroad is showing much more genetic (read: ethnic origin) plays a much greater role than previously believed. Conventional thinking was ethnic differences in nutritional needs were so minor they could be ignored. Now we know different. Age and gender differences are also significant.

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    This is a pretty complicated and controversial question. There are many schools of thought on which forms of carbs are good and which are bad. I think most everybody agrees that simple sugars alone like coke and gatorade are bad. Many think that white bread and other nutritionally devoid flours are bad too. Some think that wheat products are bad because the gluten and other chemicals will rip up your insides, even if you aren't a celiac. Some think potatoes and yams are bad, others think they are good. Almost nobody will say that fruit is bad, even though it has mostly a simple sugar, fructose.

    IMHO, if you are trying to lose weight, first you should figure out what kind of fat you have. There is fat evenly distributed around the body, and then there is a type of fat called "visceral fat", which basically means beer belly and man boobs. If you have the latter, that is the "bad kind", which has all the implications for metabolic and cardiovascular malaise. I think that it is also a hint that your fatness is carb-related, so maybe a reduced bad-carb diet would work for you.

    To answer your original question, I think banana is ok. Fruit and veggie is ok. (Fruit juice not OK.) Potato and yam might be ok. They tend to be satiating, so you won't overeat. Sugary stuff is no go. Low satiety stuff like white rice and non-whole wheat pasta is probably not that great. The reason is that it is too easy to overeat them, like how you have chinese food, and then you are hungry again later. Depending on whether you are worried about gluten ripping up your insides, whole grains and other non-wheat grainy things might be ok. Healthy fats like avocado, olives, and salmon are ok.

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    Should have cleared up that im not over weight. Im 6ft and vary between 174 to 178lbs. But i have a bit of fat in the middle region. Just a bit of belly and some love handles. Non of it is hanging but its there and i figured doing 20km rides in and hour regularly should burn some of it. So it must be my diet. I am know as a lover of food and do over eat alot. Need to learn to eat a decent amout and then wait 10 min. Instead i eat till im "full". When i cut back on the amount of food my gut shrinks pretty quickly but the bit of fat remains.

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    Try to get your carbs from whole grain sources and avoid the white stuff if possibe...white bread, white rice, white potatoes, white pasta, ect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycle151 View Post
    Friggin' coward. Give me a red chiclet instead of debating like a man. You don't deserve your green blocks.

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    Ideally, once you have a Diet you are in the zone with, you'll want Carbohydrates to be ingested prior to your Race/Marathon Ride. They are very complex building-blocks so digestion is slowed. Almost like Sugar in how your body processes them, and to how unique the composition of them is -- so your body has it's own exercise too.

    Cool-down is always, always, always going to be protein-source. Strip Steak w/ Blue Cheese (exta-protein for a reward) for example.
    Chocolate Milk is the best recovery-item. Chocolate and also Olive Oil are good for the Heart, so drink the good stuff.

    Pasta, Bread, Potato. All 'Eggs that Bind' in your Diet. As they have the most organic and the most involved make-up into what they are as whole foods, your body will have a treat with turning them into fuel, and if you are at that point of having machine-like-metabolism, you will just further those strides as you go along.

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    From true nutritional viewpoint there is no such thing as good carb or bad carb. All carbs have a place in a healthy diet. Immediately post work a high glycemic carb may be better than low glycemic. You want the sugar in your bloodstream as fast as possible to replenish glycogen. The rest of the day lower glycemic is preferred.

    FYI high and low glycemic is not synonymous with refined and unrefined. Look at a glycemic index list to choose your carbs, not some arbitrary "white bread versus whole grain" classication.

    A healthy diet does not mean you must live the life of an ascetic monk. If you otherwise eat healthy you can still have a twinkie or double bacon cheeseburger ocassionally.

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    The below link is speaking on the benefits/downsides of your carb consumption when it comes to your overall health. Worth a look, as is the whole site.

    How many carbs should I eat each day? | Mark's Daily Apple


    Piggbacking on one of the posts above I tend to stay away from processed foods as much as possible. In the 18 months that I have changed my eating/lifestyle I have achieved things I never thought possible at 34, and all the good vitals to go along with it, Blood Pressure, cholesterol level (good LDL vs HDL splot) resting heart rate, strength, sleep function, overall wellness etc.....

    Introducing the New Primal Blueprint Food Pyramid | Mark's Daily Apple


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    Lots of good advice, above.

    I recently lost about 20 lbs of body fat (3 inches off my waistline) over four months and the one suggestion I'd add is to figure out the right number of calories you need to consume daily to maintain your weight ... and then cut back 500 cal/day. That should let you lose about a 1/2" - 3/4" per month off your belly.

    The problem with crash dieting--aside from decreased metabolic rate and energy levels--is that you'll lose muscle mass along with fat. While it sounds counterintuitive, you need to make sure you eat enough to maintain muscle mass while losing fat.

    The Effects Of Low Caloric Intake | LIVESTRONG.COM

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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Been tring to burn some belly fat latley. Stopped eating fatty lunches and replaced with protien powder. Seemed ok untill i realized i was having a hard time riding up the big hills to and from work.

    So i had some pasta and the next 2-3 days i was all good. Didnt feel tired during the day. I dont want to go nuts on pasta so what would you guys recomend for healy cards to supplement the protien? And what to eat after a big ride(had some protien powder but read I should do a 3:1 carb to protien)

    Also would like to know more about carb loading before a race

    Thanks
    plain quaker oats oatmeal w/ water is very healthy for carbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by brf4n View Post
    plain quaker oats oatmeal w/ water is very healthy for carbs
    ..for a horse it might be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brf4n View Post
    plain quaker oats oatmeal w/ water is very healthy for carbs
    Here are some reasons it might not be:
    Are Oats Healthy? | Mark's Daily Apple

    As mentioned in the comments of that article, it really spikes your blood sugar. I stopped eating oatmeal after I noticed that I tended to get an elevated heartrate afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Been tring to burn some belly fat latley.Really trying to improve muscle to fat ratio Stopped eating fatty lunches and replaced with protien powder.You can overdo the protein Seemed ok untill i realized i was having a hard time riding up the big hills to and from work.Makes sense

    So i had some pasta and the next 2-3 days i was all good. Didnt feel tired during the day. I dont want to go nuts on pasta so what would you guys recomend for healy cards to supplement the protien? And what to eat after a big ride(had some protien powder but read I should do a 3:1 carb to protien)

    Also would like to know more about carb loading before a race

    Thanks
    Well you have to eat enough fats and protein to be healthy....

    Then you have to eat enough carbs....That depends on how much energy you expend...if you are trying to loss some weight and gain some muscles....then you probably want ot run about 250 to 400 calories light per day...X 7 days/3500cal/lb = .65 lbs/week.

    Really that simple....and yes as your body begins to burn fat to replace the glycogen instead of easily available carbs in your guts then you will feel tired and hungry.

    If you stay away from simple carbs fructose, sucrose, glucose...you won't get as much of a sugar high and low...

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Here are some reasons it might not be:
    Are Oats Healthy? | Mark's Daily Apple

    As mentioned in the comments of that article, it really spikes your blood sugar. I stopped eating oatmeal after I noticed that I tended to get an elevated heartrate afterwards.
    Uhh, Oatmeal with sugar added in it (flavored Oatmeal) of course will spike blood sugar. Regular Oatmeal, with no sugar, will not. All the articles talking about Oatmeal spiking blood sugar are talking about flavored Oatmeals, especially the Oatmeal meals where people put in strawberries, bananas, etc.

    Oatmeal is just about the healthiest carb out there, next to eating/drinking plain maltodextrin.

    This is what I am talking about: http://www.theonlinecandyshop.com/im...lbvaluebox.jpg

    Super healthy, very pure, and very cheap at Costco. (something like under $10)

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    Quote Originally Posted by brf4n View Post
    Uhh, Oatmeal with sugar added in it (flavored Oatmeal) of course will spike blood sugar. Regular Oatmeal, with no sugar, will not. All the articles talking about Oatmeal spiking blood sugar are talking about flavored Oatmeals, especially the Oatmeal meals where people put in strawberries, bananas, etc.

    Oatmeal is just about the healthiest carb out there, next to eating/drinking plain maltodextrin.

    This is what I am talking about: http://www.theonlinecandyshop.com/im...lbvaluebox.jpg

    Super healthy, very pure, and very cheap at Costco. (something like under $10)
    +1 on the oatmeal. It's not realistic to demonize all carbs, despite what the latest fads might suggest.
    Last edited by jathanas; 05-23-2012 at 05:51 PM.

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    This is all really good info. I have been watching my portions but not calories. I have a very high metabolisim ( i should be 300lbs) but I cant bank on that forever.

    Again i dont want to lose any weight just burn the belly fat. But there is no time for weight tranning.

    Seems like I need to push beyond being out of energy to get that result. But it seems counter productive as I would rather be properly nurished to build the legs as I have started racing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brf4n View Post
    Uhh, Oatmeal with sugar added in it (flavored Oatmeal) of course will spike blood sugar. Regular Oatmeal, with no sugar, will not. All the articles talking about Oatmeal spiking blood sugar are talking about flavored Oatmeals, especially the Oatmeal meals where people put in strawberries, bananas, etc.

    Oatmeal is just about the healthiest carb out there, next to eating/drinking plain maltodextrin.

    This is what I am talking about: http://www.theonlinecandyshop.com/im...lbvaluebox.jpg

    Super healthy, very pure, and very cheap at Costco. (something like under $10)

    I found some of this trash Oatmeal in my cupboard, not the fruit kind and added sugar, I dont eat it, but my wife does. PLAIN, Quaker Oats...


    1/2 up serving size
    27g carbs
    1g sugar
    5 gram protein
    3g fat


    The difference between sugar added vs plain....? Not much maybe 2-3g carbs.

    Bottom line, its a carb, its 27g worth, and will spike your blood sugar/insulin levels. Recipe for diabetes? I will probably further add that you think a bagel, some fruit, and possibly a large cip of juice is good for you also in 1 sitting at breakfast. . Well over 100g of carbs, just for breakfast.

    My usual 3 eggs for breakfast, 1 TBSP of almond butter, stomps a 1/2 cup of lousy oatmeal out for nutritional value all around, and doesnt have nearly the effect as the oatmeal does on my health, in the negative way. The facts are this....Less carbs (aprox 10g in the whole breakfast) , more protein (25g) , more fat (where your energy should come from), less calories, and its 100% natural, no processed BS. You cant support lean muscle mass with oatmeal, doesnt supply the value.

    I agree you need carbs, but they should be moderated and you should iknow what good carbs and bad carbs are generally 100-150g per day. Although the typical american takes in excess of 300g per day, and they wonder why obesity and diabetes are at an all time high?? Generally speaking, anything processed is a bad carb.....including Oats which is another form of bread/grains.

    Before anyone gets on the cholesterol bad train people generally dont know what bad cholesterol means, and what good cholesterol is. You know what the leading cause of bad cholesterol is (LDL)? Elevated carb intakes and high sugar intakes......hmmmmmm. You can have high cholesterol with a good ldl/hdl split.
    Last edited by nojoke; 05-25-2012 at 12:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post

    Again i dont want to lose any weight just burn the belly fat.

    Seems like I need to push beyond being out of energy to get that result. But it seems counter productive as I would rather be properly nurished to build the legs as I have started racing.
    No, you have it wrong if you think the way to lose fat is to starve yourself or work to exhaustion. These are good ways to lose muscle mass. Read post #3, second paragraph again. Also set aside some time to read the links from nojoke.
    Last edited by beanbag; 05-25-2012 at 01:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    I found some of this trash Oatmeal in my cupboard, not the fruit kind and added sugar, I dont eat it, but my wife does. PLAIN, Quaker Oats...


    1/2 up serving size
    27g carbs
    1g sugar
    5 gram protein
    3g fat


    The difference between sugar added vs plain....? Not much maybe 2-3g carbs.

    Bottom line, its a carb, its 27g worth, and will spike your blood sugar/insulin levels. Recipe for diabetes? I will probably further add that you think a bagel, some fruit, and possibly a large cip of juice is good for you also in 1 sitting at breakfast. . Well over 100g of carbs, just for breakfast.

    My usual 3 eggs for breakfast, 1 TBSP of almond butter, stomps a 1/2 cup of lousy oatmeal out for nutritional value all around, and doesnt have nearly the effect as the oatmeal does on my health, in the negative way. The facts are this....Less carbs (aprox 10g in the whole breakfast) , more protein (25g) , more fat (where your energy should come from), less calories, and its 100% natural, no processed BS. You cant support lean muscle mass with oatmeal, doesnt supply the value.

    I agree you need carbs, but they should be moderated and you should iknow what good carbs and bad carbs are generally 100-150g per day. Although the typical american takes in excess of 300g per day, and they wonder why obesity and diabetes are at an all time high?? Generally speaking, anything processed is a bad carb.....including Oats which is another form of bread/grains.

    Before anyone gets on the cholesterol bad train people generally dont know what bad cholesterol means, and what good cholesterol is. You know what the leading cause of bad cholesterol is (LDL)? Elevated carb intakes and high sugar intakes......hmmmmmm. You can have high cholesterol with a good ldl/hdl split.
    I respectfully disagree with your post.

    You should read up on glycemic index, glycemic load, and the difference between complex carbs and simple sugars. Oats are a good food that will not cause an insulin spike. It is ilinformed to suggest otherwise.

    People overdo the simple carbs and that's a problem. 150 grams of carbs a day is simply inadequate for a competitive endurance athlete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jathanas View Post
    I respectfully disagree with your post.

    You should read up on glycemic index, glycemic load, and the difference between complex carbs and simple sugars. Oats are a good food that will not cause an insulin spike. It is ilinformed to suggest otherwise.

    People overdo the simple carbs and that's a problem. 150 grams of carbs a day is simply inadequate for a competitive endurance athlete.
    (excuse me, spelling is off, just had eye surgery)


    Thats what these places are for

    I have read up on the gyclemic index, and I am educated on it. Good carbs, and bad carbs. I think my views stem from grains and the health issues they create, and oats are a form of those. That is why I shy away from oatmeal and oatmeal has peaked my interest.

    For my personal use Oatmeal holds no nutritional value to me. Its low in protein, high in carbs (low GI) as you suggested, although the claim it doesnt spike is false. Levels will still raise but slowly Hince a carb is carb, they just have different overlall outcomes on insulin and glucose levels on the realm of time. I took the link from below wiki, cause I dont have my good literature at reference.

    Glycemic index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A low-GI food will release glucose more slowly and steadily, which leads to more suitable postprandial (after meal) blood glucose readings. A high-GI food causes a more rapid rise in blood glucose levels and is suitable for energy recovery after exercise or for a person experiencing hypoglycemia.
    I agree, different levels of atheltics will require different level of intakes, and I was simply addressing the OP's post on good/bad. However if you stick to the triangle I listed above several posts ago its a cut and dry case, and will generally lead to a lower overall level of carb intake and a healthy/healthier lifestyle.

    I have ZERO issues sustaining my daily lifestyle on my current intake. I Crossfit alot, Im a Crossfit Trainer, Active duty military (15 years) and do local XC trails/DH and race both. If my daily intake was inadequate I would of killed myself off by now. For example..yesterdays meal.

    Breakfast
    3-4 Fish oil tablets, multivitamin
    3 eggs
    1 TBSP almond butter
    Coffee, black.

    Snack between breakfast/lunch as I feel......
    almonds/apple

    Lunch
    8oz Chicken breast
    Can of spinnach
    3 asparagus spears

    More snacks...
    almonds/nuts and a fruit just before I workout in the afternoon (4pm) whether its Crossfit or riding.......sometimes both.



    Post workout
    60g of Gold Standard Optimum Whey protein, typically the only dairy I ever drink/eat......

    Dinner
    Salmon , grilled
    Grilled peppers
    maybe some Tea.....


    I try to avoid eating carb heavy foods before bed as well as the body needs to be as dormant as possible during sleep.
    Last edited by nojoke; 05-25-2012 at 11:36 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jathanas View Post
    You should read up on glycemic index, glycemic load, and the difference between complex carbs and simple sugars. Oats are a good food that will not cause an insulin spike. It is ilinformed to suggest otherwise.
    Oats do cause a blood sugar spike for many. You can find several cases if you search on the internet about it. One example:
    Oatmeal: Good or bad? | Track Your Plaque Blog

    This is even despite the fact that the GL is not that high. I don't know what it is about oatmeal that affects some people. Maybe because the "standard serving" is much smaller than what people normally eat. Maybe because as the first meal of the day you have a big steaming face full of carbohydrate and almost nothing else. In any case, it made me feel funny afterwards (and lots of others as well), and no I did not add sugar to it, and no, I am not diabetic.

    Blood sugar aside, the main point is that oatmeal is a relatively nutritionally devoid food. It has some token nutrients and anti-nutrients as well. Why not get your carbs from foods that have more nutrients in them instead?

    If you are a serious endurance athlete whose energy requirements far exceed what fat metabolism (+ glycogen) can supply, then you would need to eat a face full of carbs on purpose and oatmeal would be a efficient way to get them. I don't think the OP is at that point.

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    Thanks both beanbag and nojoke for your posts. I found them both to be "food for thought".

    I've cut most gluten and wheat based foods from my diet with good results. I still eat oats though, especially as a meal before a very long ride or extra hard training session. They work really well for me.

    I agree that there is no need to go heavy on the carbs on easy days. Like you i choose protein first at those times.

    Cheers, J

    edit: Speedy recovery nojoke!

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    I have been eating whole grain steel cut oats(one pack) with a bit of pure maple syrup and 2 cut up straw berrys on the morning and I have felt alot better on my ride to work in the mornings.

    I thought whole grains were ok as a carb. Im going to read the links posted.

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    Fat is good. Your body can reject excess fat quite easily, and it makes you feel full. It is also really good for you. Don't avoid fat.

    Do avoid sugar and starches. Potatoes are very bad. Rice is better. Carb amounts should be small unless you are really burning lots of calories. Digging ditches is a good justification for major carb calories. Endurance athletics training all day is another good reason to eat lots of carbs. Weight training, not so much.

    Do eat reasonable portions at the right times. Once you cut sugars and excess carbs, the rest is just common sense. I know this is not the story that the magazines were pushing a few years ago.

    EDIT: I re-read your earlier posts. Nevermind.

    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    This is all really good info. I have been watching my portions but not calories. I have a very high metabolisim ( i should be 300lbs) but I cant bank on that forever.

    Again i dont want to lose any weight just burn the belly fat. But there is no time for weight tranning.

    Seems like I need to push beyond being out of energy to get that result. But it seems counter productive as I would rather be properly nurished to build the legs as I have started racing.
    You are trying to lose fat in one spot! It does not work that way.
    Last edited by DavyRay; 05-25-2012 at 05:00 PM.

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    I understand the fat wont come one area.

    Ive come to the conclusion I eat a LOT of sugars and bad carbs.

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