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  1. #51
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    [QUOTE=kjlued;9864402]
    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post


    Yes, because omnivores are constantly trying scare people away from veganism.

    That is why we start radical groups like PETA.......oh wait, it doesn't stand for People Eating Tasty Animals?

    I guess that was you guys then.
    What does this even mean?

    If you're trying to say that vegans are all propagandists because of PETA, you should consider the size of animal rights groups versus the size of dairy, beef and pork industries and then think who's the victim of propaganda.


  2. #52
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    Either way, I was joking.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    Either way, I was joking.
    Don't worry, I am laughing.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Sorry, but no way in hell am I going to a vegan or even vegetarian diet.
    I like to wrap my meat in meat.

    I have meet with every meal except my when eating supplements.

    I will also agree with the post that 6 ft and 65kg is under weight.
    I am 5'11 and no way on Gods Green earth would I want to be 145 lbs.
    I got down to 155lbs a few years ago looked sick.
    I now weigh 165-170 lbs depending on how much beer I drink. lol
    My height and weight is what you need to be to be a decent cyclist. Even on hot sauce.

    Ive got an elite runner friend that is one of the fastest 10 000m runners in oz and at peak speed he is 57kg. Same height as me.

    Cycling is a sport where if a tyre is 20g lighter than last years model it warrants a new marketing campaign to release it.

    You want to be as hydrated as possible, carbed up as possible, rested as possible and as light as possible so your watts per kg is reflective of your natural ability.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by durianrider View Post
    My height and weight is what you need to be to be a decent cyclist. Even on hot sauce.

    Ive got an elite runner friend that is one of the fastest 10 000m runners in oz and at peak speed he is 57kg. Same height as me.

    Cycling is a sport where if a tyre is 20g lighter than last years model it warrants a new marketing campaign to release it.

    You want to be as hydrated as possible, carbed up as possible, rested as possible and as light as possible so your watts per kg is reflective of your natural ability.
    He is exactly right. I'm 154 and 5'11 and I'm considered to be big for a cyclist. I also live near Boulder and I know what skinny and strong is. In order to be elite level I would need to lose another 10 lbs. I got down to 152 last year but it is not easy. If you are serious about cycling losing weight, is the biggest thing to help you become better. You can do intervals and climb till you are blue in the face but if you weight 185 and are 5'10" most of the time you will get beat by a lighter person of the same ability. It is pure physics.

    I was watching the Olympics this past summer and I noticed how skinny the endurance runners where. That is an entirely different level. I even find it crazy to be that light.

    Erik

  6. #56
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    People love to use themselves as representative of the whole species. Everyone is different. I actually happen to feel best when I have bacon for breakfast and exercise in a mildly dehydrated state.

  7. #57
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    You'd probably feel awesome if you were high on morphine but I bet you couldn't ride worth a damn.

  8. #58
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    Its from all those performance enhancing nutrients contained in bacon. feeling awesome doesn't equal peak physical condition nor does it equal perfect health.

  9. #59
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    It's organic bacon. Actual Wild Boar and I do exceptionally well in races. In fact by winning races filled with vegans and guys with clear pee I could present a convincing argument for McDonald's being where it's at for nutrition because I've won races based on a junk food diet.
    I've also done terrible on great food and waterlogged with water.
    Don't confuse good health and longevity with performance.

  10. #60
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    Organic, alkalizing boar free from cholesterol and saturated fat. I used to think I performed well as a meat eater too. Never would have imagined how much those foods impaired performance, more so my recovery though.

  11. #61
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    Imagined is the key word.
    All that really matters a performance if you think about it.

  12. #62
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    Haha. Yes, my performance, recovery and health gains are all imagined. I'll make a list quantifying them so I can see just how out of control my imagination is.

  13. #63
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    You should already have that together if you're pushing the benefits on people.
    Just the performance matters though, if you're serious about cycling.

  14. #64
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    I was being sarcastic. I know what the benefits and improvements are, but since I'm not "pushing" anything it's not necessary.

  15. #65
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    I really am interested in hearing about the miracles performed on vegetarian or raw diets.
    The results often do seem to be of the vague and not really quantifiable type.
    Durianrider lists a half marathon time that is nothing remarkable when you consider how he goes on about how light and energetic he is.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    significant improvement in my performance both in endurance and strength training. I find my muscles don't burn on long rides or when climbing steep hills, my lungs tend to give out and I get winded long before my muscles slow me down. During heavy workout sessions, like bar squat, I can squat more weight AND more reps than I could ever do before I switched....it couldn't even come close to the rate of recovery and sustained energy i have....can all attest to my strength, endurance and mood increase......I'm getting stronger every week, my recoveries are insanely fast and most importantly I have more energy for riding.
    This is far too vague for you I assume? You'd like me to dig through my workout logs and tell you what I was I pushing?

    Ill expect you to do the same for your wild boar bacon and non-wild boar bacon days.

    Realistically though, I could care less what you eat. I'm not "pushing" anyone to do or eat anything. I don't actually think durian is "pushing" anyone with this thread (maybe he is elsewhere) but here, the title of the thread pretty much sums up what he's trying to do. Even if he is, your performance on wild boar bacon is pretty unnecessary for the thread. It's about weight loss. If you want to start a vegan/omnivore war, start a new thread. Maybe there you could elaborate on the performance enhancing nutrients in wild boar bacon, and explain what parts of the human digestive system thrive on it.

  17. #67
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    I would like to hear how you are doing relative to everyone else.
    People eating complete garbage often have high energy, fantastic recovery and outstanding performance.
    BTW "could" care less means you care a bit.
    My contribution to this thread would therefore be that people eat less of whatever they choose to eat and exercise more.

  18. #68
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    I don't like using myself as a yardstick for other people because too many variables skew the results. I can only tell you how I feel from when I was a healthy eating omnivore to being a healthy eating vegan. My diet then and now would both be considered "healthy" it's just that the actual level of my health and the level of my fitness and recovery now are significantly greater than when I ate meat. I did try various diets and weight seemed to fluctuate pretty quickly and energy levels usually petered out. My performance was pretty stable no matter what i tried except for occasionally getting weaker and lethargic with some of the lo carb stuff I tried. I'm maintaing the weight I had with lo-carb except my weight doesn't fluctuate so rapidly plus I have sustained energy and I'm not constantly conscious of what I'm eating, in fact I probably eat 500-700 calories a day more than I did before, but I stopped counting calories and watching carbs a long time ago. I have one rule, if its vegan and I could grow it myself or prepare it in my kitchen, Ill eat it. I probably never would have known how bad I really felt if it wasn't for trying to cure really bad daily heartburn without medication. That's really what led me to try veganism. Sort of a last ditch effort, it's mostly the reason I tried any of the diets I was on. Sadly, I still have very bad heartburn but it's much less frequent, it's the only thing that I still haven't figured out how to get of. There are so many health reasons I stuck with it that the performance gains are just gravy. I can't find the most recent numbers but here's a nice comparison of when I first switched.

    March 2011 ("healthy" diet, calorie and portion control)
    Cholesterol 156/16 should be less than 200 and above 40
    Hdl ratio 9.6 optimal less than 4
    Glucose 91 s/b less than 100
    Blood pressure 140/88 optimal is less than 120/80
    Weight 218

    August 2011 (vegan for roughly 3 months)
    Cholesterol 144/22
    Hdl ratio 6.5
    Glucose 75
    B/P 130/90
    Weight 202

    Nothing changed but diet, and it was pretty rough around the edges considering how little I knew at the time. I wasn't eating a "whole food" diet, it was a lot of meat and dairy substitutes (highly processed, high in oils..etc.) junk food and refined carbs. I didn't know what was "good" vegan food and wasn't. Id really like to find the paperwork from my last visit.

    When I was eating meat and dairy I'd eat a nice piece of dry organic boiled chicken cooked in oil-less $2000 cook world pans, and some steamed veggies or something and think, man I feel good but now, I just feel good all the time. I never get the food coma feeling after I eat and sometimes feel immediately re-energized after I eat. Any way I look at it, I feel better, perform better, look better and I spend way less money on food and less time counting calories.
    Going vegan fixed things I didn't really know were problems, without getting into too many details lets just say, ahem, bathroom duties. Thinking It was just the way my digestive system was, and having two doctors tell me nothing was wrong, I was pretty content with the idea that's how I'd live forever. But man, I have to say, it's such a relief being able to to stray from a toilet and not break out in cold sweats after a meal out with friends. I haven't even had a migraine since April or march of 2011, something I suffered from at least once a month since a concussion in 1995, doctors told me it was something I'd have to deal with. I've also had bad knee, toe and wrist joint pain from years of bmx and a kart racing accident as a kid(I presume). I took glucosamine and fish oil for ~5 years until one day I ran out and decided I wasn't going to buy a new one until I found a vegan version. Well, I forgot to look for a vegan one and went on with my life and halfway through winter I realized "my knees don't hurt" I kept doing what I do and it never came back, it was pretty painful every year prior and there were a few days where I would just have to skip work. When the seasons changed or it was about to rain or snow I would feel it in my joints. I could go with the little here and there things, but I'm tired of typing and I'm sure your tired of reading.

  19. #69
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    You just got some rep Rob.

  20. #70
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    I'm really more interested in time improvement over known courses or better race results.
    Can't argue that how you feel with those problems isn't a bit more important to you though.
    It just seems to me that someone who is energetic all the time and has amazing recovery seems pretty much destined for greatness. With the right workouts and recovery from them, improved performance seems pretty limitless.

  21. #71
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    I don't compete in cycling. Can't help you there. There are a few vegan athletes who say their vegan diets helped them achieve better results though. Carl Lewis claimed his vegan diet helped him have his best performance.
    Even if the only gain was improved recovery. I think that's significant enough from an athletic standpoint.

    I've worked out with the same guy for 11 years, we always had similar recovery times, the typical sort of sore the next day, really really sore the day after. I barley get sore the after, maybe a little bit but by dinner time, I'm fine. The next day is complete recovery. He's always lifted more than me to the tune of 25-30lbs on the big stuff. I'm now able to do just as much weight and a rep or two more. Closest I can come to competition.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    You just got some rep Rob.
    Haha. Thanks.

  23. #73
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    sugar is a fat storage tool

    I don't have time to read this whole thread, but if you want to lose weight, there are a few simple things you can do. The most important, for most people, is to drastically reduce or eliminate your sugar intake, particularly artificial processed sugar.

    Diet and nutrition.

    For burning fat, you want to almost eliminate sugar, especially artificial sugar. Eat more protein and very little sugar. Sugar should only come in small amounts and from natural sources. No sugar juice, no pop, no beer or alcohol. Eat only complex carbs. Barring any allergies, eat whole grains, fruits and veggies, beans, lentils, nuts and try and minimize your processed food. Drink plenty of water.

    For fitness, try weight training and running, eliptical, swimming and of course, you're going to be mountian biking. If you want your mtb riding to help burn fat and build muscle, you need to do lot's of climbing. Running can help burn fat, but make sure to do interval training, short sprints followed by lower speeds, then repeat. If you simply run, cycle or swim at the same pace all the time, your body will not burn enough fat, it simply improves efficiency. You want that in the end, but for now to burn fat, you want to be in-efficient.

    You do need to "diet" to lose the fat to being with, but your "diet" to lose fat should not be dramatically different from your normal diet. Your weight loss diet should simply be a slight tweak. You have to experiment. You will need lot's of protein to feed your muscles, but you'll also need your complex carbohydrates to feed your higher levels of physical excursion. You need to burn a bit more fat than normal in order to lose the fat. You need to eat more protein and less simple carbs. You need to adjust this once you get down to your target body fat level. I started down the no sugar trail and went from 16-18% body fat and got down to 6-8%. It was an incredible achievement, but, I looked sick. I am 5 foot 9/5" and I was almost 150 LBS and people thought I had cancer. I was too thin, and yet had more muscle than at any time in my life. I am way out of shape again, but this time, I plan to bottom out at no less than 10% body fat. I'll be happy with 11-12%.

    Everyone is different, but for many people, sugar is a trigger. Eat simple sugar and your body releases insulin and stores fat. You don't eat sugar, and your body stores less fat, and instead, it burns it.

    Check with your doctor about any changes you make, but I had great success with reducing and nearly eliminating sugar from my diet, eating less processed foods, and more whole grains like brown rice, quinoa, oats, etc, fruits and veggies, all the stuff I mentioned above. I ate meat at the time, lot's of turkey, chicken and fish, but this time around, I am looking to go vegetarian and vegan in my approach. Some fish, and lot's of vegan meals.

    One thing I would like to find, is vegetarian and vegan recipes. If anybody has any for cycling and weight training, by all means, share.

    Have fun and good luck.
    Last edited by morkys; 06-06-2014 at 08:45 AM.

  24. #74
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    Although there are some exceptions, obviously, I can honestly say that most of the guys I know that are chronically overweight and just can't seem to take the weight off around their gut, a big reason is BEER. I've kept myself in pretty good shape my whole life and have never been much of a drinker and every year I get older, it seems people my age drink more and more beer. There are guys I ride with that usually have 2-3 beers after they ride and that's before they get home.

    I'd be willing to bet that the single, number one cause of extra poundage is alcohol related. People that drink consistently also seem to be pretty lax in terms of the crap they eat and with each drink, the eating choices get more and more sketchy. Got nothing against drinking beer, just an observation as I've moved a lot in my life, ridden bikes and surfed with a lot of guys and I see the same thing over and over and over when it comes to beer drinking and extra gut weight.
    Are you really sure about that?

  25. #75
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    The first places you pack on the weight is the last place it comes off. It's not like doing sit ups will make you loose your gut or drinking beer will give you one. Although if you don't eat often enough you're more likely to burn muscle as energy, and store more as fat when you do eat/drink.
    For most people, a sure way to get scrawny with a big gut is to starve yourself all day and binge at night. Which as a person who drinks who starts to gain weight might do
    Round and round we go

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