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  1. #26
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    I think the best advice in this whole thread is to drink enough water to where your pee is nearly clear. It shouldn't't be water clear.
    Most of advice I've seen from reasonable nutritionist who weren't promoting a certain life style was to eat meats a few times a week. Lean steak, grilled chicken, fish are good choices.
    When I look in the mirror and open my mouth I see a good set of incisor teeth. They are there for a reason.

    Also, the tip about cutting back wheat products is good.

    Sent via mental telepathy.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by leesrt View Post
    When I look in the mirror and open my mouth I see a good set of incisor teeth. They are there for a reason.
    To eat hard broccoli and the like, right?

  3. #28
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    140lbs and 6ft spells vegan

  4. #29
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    This will be my first post, so why not make it count?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumgai View Post
    The human body needs animal protein. Regardless of your political or spiritual orientations, the fact is that your body is meant to consume meat. Vegans/vegetarians always look like 8 year old boys, all skinny and whatnot. Not healthy or attractive at all.
    This simply isn't true, There isn't any amino acid or nutrient we need that comes from animals that can't be found in the plant kingdom (besides B12, but animals don't make that either). Where do you think animals get the amino acids they provide? I have scoured every piece of literature I can find regarding animal foods and diet, hoping, to find solid evidence that as a vegan, I would be deficient in nutrient "X" or protein "X" so that I could justify eating a pizza or turkey sandwich. Everything I have found, and I mean everything, has lead back to the same conclusion, you can easily live a healthy, happy, nutrient dense and protein rich lifestyle on a strict vegan diet. I'm not saying its the ONLY way, but I am saying its easy to do.
    I'm a vegan, and I don't look like a skinny 8 year old boy. In fact there are plenty of vegan athletes who buck that stereotype. You have to remember that people choose veg lifestyles for different reasons, people who have chosen to live that way as a path to reduce their environmental impact or for animal welfare reasons may not be very concerned with diet in the first place and may eat some pretty poor veg*n foods, I know quite a few to be honest and if you're replacing chicken for Oreo cookies, you aren't doing yourself any favors but you also can't use them as a yardstick for proper nutrition. Since the day I went vegan I've had to listen to various people tell me about their cousins friends sister who was hospitalized for their vegan diet or heard how sick people get, but two things you never hear are, 1. What they were eating, what their diet consisted of and 2. What sickness they had. Both of those things are immensely important but always overlooked.
    I spent most of my life as an omnivore/weightlifter who thought he knew plenty about nutrition and I made my fair share of vegan/vegetarian jokes. I tried veganism for a month on a whim to try and cure my heartburn and a year and a half later I haven't looked back. I've maintained a healthy weight for someone who still lifts heavy weight and rides any kind of bicycle any time I get the chance.
    Listing results on a forum is never going to have the same impact as knowing first hand just how good it feels to have all these new found health benefits. Having tried a few different "diets" and having spent tons of money on whey/casein protein powders and having consumed various amounts of them in different phases, I can honestly say without a doubt the "no supplement, whole-food vegan" diet has been hands down, the most significant improvement in my performance both in endurance and strength training. I find my muscles don't burn on long rides or when climbing steep hills, my lungs tend to give out and I get winded long before my muscles slow me down. During heavy workout sessions, like bar squat, I can squat more weight AND more reps than I could ever do before I switched. No matter what creatine powder/pill, protein powder, BCAA supplement, multivitamin or pre-workout supplement i took, it couldn't even come close to the rate of recovery and sustained energy I get from my plant based diet. People close to me who know I'm not someone who is easily fooled into a gimmick can all attest to my strength, endurance and mood increase and are amazed how drastically it changed every aspect of my life so much that a few of them have followed in my footsteps and a few others are toying with the idea. I'm probably the last person you would expect to just wake up and decide to go vegan.

    When I first went vegan I was very concerned about my protein intake and any nutrient deficiencies that might develop. I meticulously measured my portions and calories and documented my servings and gathered all the data into a spreadsheet that covered a ton of different nutrients and specific amino acids, even documenting things I knew nothing about. I compared my daily numbers for a few days against a recommended daily intake for all the Important things with a huge emphasis on protein, I was an avid bodybuilder after all. After a few days I noticed a trend, on days I worked out harder or did more cardio, I consumed more calories, pretty obvious right? But as my caloric intake increased so did my protein levels, in fact I was consuming way more protein than I needed to (per the recommendation). So I decided to see where I was when I stopped adding in protein shakes (Vega sport and Sunwarrior warrior blend). To my surprise, I was STILL over the recommendation. So for 10 months now, I've been working out heavily with no protein powders or supplements and I'm getting stronger every week, my recoveries are insanely fast and most importantly I have more energy for riding. I no longer count calories, measure protein intakes or obsess over individual nutrients because as long as I maintain a normal caloric intake, and I don't starve myself I'm sure I'm getting what I need. If things change and my performance peaks, I'll reassess my situation and add or subtract things from my diet but until then, I'm happy. My diet is far from perfect, but being able to classify myself as a "whole food vegan" makes it easy for me stay in line and keep eating healthy foods while avoiding processed junk.


    Obviously, I'm a user name without a face and a low post count but the story is true and the results are genuine.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    ...... Where do you think animals get the amino acids they provide? ...........................................
    That right there is enough to cast doubt on everything else you say.

    Do you realize all animals are not the same? In fact there are some fairly extreme differences in the way certain mammals work internally in respect what we are talking about herein. For example, cats vs bovines. <---- Very big differences.

    PS: I did read everything you posted and will say "Good for you!" Great to hear people that are successful in their diets. We all know far too many people have exactly the opposite problems.

    PPS: For the life of me I can't get my Lab to eat carrots, broccoli or any other vegetables, I do often catch her eating fresh rabbit. Do you think she will be OK?
    Last edited by chas_martel; 10-23-2012 at 10:38 AM.
    Nobody cares...........

  6. #31
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    Animals and humans are able to synthesize some of the amino acids, and I totally agree that some create or don't create one or another. Not all animals are the same, agreed. That wasn't my point. My point is, ALL of the amino acids that are essential, that is to say we don't make them in our bodies are available in the form of plants. The amino acids that a cow can't create on its own are acquired through its diet, of plants. Humans do the same thing. Every essential and non essential, amino acid is available from plant based diet. That is my point. There is no requirement for "Animal" protein per say, just a requirement for the essential amino acids, all of which are abundantly available in plants.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    Animals and humans are able to synthesize some of the amino acids, and I totally agree that some create or don't create one or another. Not all animals are the same, agreed. That wasn't my point. My point is, ALL of the amino acids that are essential, that is to say we don't make them in our bodies are available in the form of plants. The amino acids that a cow can't create on its own are acquired through its diet, of plants. Humans do the same thing. Every essential and non essential, amino acid is available from plant based diet. That is my point. There is no requirement for "Animal" protein per say, just a requirement for the essential amino acids, all of which are abundantly available in plants.
    OK, for sake of arguments you are correct. What is wrong with eating meat? I'm not saying gorge on meat, I am asking what is wrong with eating meat? Are you saying that technically we are better off to eat NO meat, or is it just a preference for you?

    I'm curious about your context, you did not supply that in your original post. I think you will find that most Omnivores get frustrated when "veggies" come down on us with their religious/political tirades.

    For the record I don't eat as much meat as I used to and it is mostly related to shifting toward more vegetables, in years past those were lacking in my diet. I brought total caloric intake down, in other words. I also naturally abhor carbohydrates, I often think some people have a genetic predisposition toward consumption of carbohydrates.
    Nobody cares...........

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    Animals and humans are able to synthesize some of the amino acids, and I totally agree that some create or don't create one or another. Not all animals are the same, agreed. That wasn't my point. My point is, ALL of the amino acids that are essential, that is to say we don't make them in our bodies are available in the form of plants. The amino acids that a cow can't create on its own are acquired through its diet, of plants. Humans do the same thing. Every essential and non essential, amino acid is available from plant based diet. That is my point. There is no requirement for "Animal" protein per say, just a requirement for the essential amino acids, all of which are abundantly available in plants.
    While I get the gist of what you are saying I believe cats require consumption of other animal flesh.
    Nobody cares...........

  9. #34
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    I wasn't arguing for the case of cats, I'm arguing for the case of humans and for the fact that most of the animals we tend eat are herbivores or light omnivores.

    There are plenty of reasons for not eating meat, but my biggest reason for switching was purely experimental. Generally the Best thing you get from meat is protein, and very high quality but it comes with drawbacks, cholesterol, saturated fat, high acidity (not alkaline) increased colon cancer risk in men and from what I've read and understand, it's a more inefficient delivery mechanism for protein. Im sure people could tell you thousands of environmental and ethical reasons for not consuming meat, but this is a nutrition forum and I'm probably not the best person to be giving ethics or environmental lectures, haha.

    I guess my point really is, When consuming plant foods you still get all the protein you need but you eliminate things like cholesterol and saturated fat and whatever hormones or toxins that animal was subjected too, and that includes and pesticides or contaminates in the animals food supply. Plants have little to no cholesterol or saturated fat and as far as toxins or pesticides to some degree that can't be controlled but it can be greatly reduced.

    Let me say this, I'm not as against meat as it may seem. While I (and most dietary associations) know there is no dietary requirement for meat, I do understand what a huge role it played in expansion and success of the human civilization. Without meat, we never would have made it through rough winters or famines, in fact it's probably a perfect food for those situations.

  10. #35
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    I'm also not holding anything against any meat eaters out there or pushing a hidden agenda of vegan polital and ethical world domination. I'm merely sticking up for the vegans and hopefully trying to shed a little light on some very common misconceptions. After all wasn't me who called meat eaters unhealthy 8 year old boys .

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmctav23 View Post
    How bout a more in depth analysis by one of the more respected cycling performance gurus, Joe Friel:
    Joe Friel's Blog: Hydration and Exercise, Part 1
    Joe Friel's Blog: Hydration and Exercise, Part 2
    Joe Friel's Blog: Hydration and Exercise, Part 3
    Joe Friel's Blog: Hydration and Exercise, Part 4

    Here is an even more scientific analysis in five parts, but part three really talks about drinking when thirsty:
    The Science of Sport: Fluid intake, dehydration, and exercise: Part III

    ...
    Super info...thanks for posting. My SO is a 10-year gym rat (and mountain biker for a couple years now). She consumes a lot of water every day and swears by the whole hydration thing. I am more of a slacker when it comes to the gym but ride a lot and reached a point where I drink when thirsty a couple of years ago when my fitness level improved substantially. She gives me grief all the time about not consuming enough water. Note: I've seen people get severely dehydrated- one of them never fully recovered and has to be very careful all of the time now. So I approached this cautiously and mention it for others to beware and learn what works over time- everyone is different.

    At first, I consumed enough water to warrant carrying a Camelback for 20-40 mile rides. Over time the amount I require reduced to the point where I consume somewhere around 20oz of water over that distance. I carry a small extra bottle in case I need it but rarely do anymore unless the temperature is mid 80 degrees F or higher range or on fast paced rides.

  12. #37
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    @RobHarmer

    I get ya man. I think we are pretty much on the same page. I just like an occasional steak and often crave sushi.

    PS: Just to throw something else out there: I thought we no longer worry about cholesterol. I mean, it doesn't cause cardio problems right?

    PPS: Dinner tonight was a big heaping of several types of steamed veggies!
    Nobody cares...........

  13. #38
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    I haven't heard much info regarding cholesterol in that respect, I can't imagine cholesterol in your blood being helpful but I really can't pretend to know what I'm talking about in this area, haha. I think might look into it now though cause its piqued my intrest.

    Have a little extra for me, I slacked on my veggies today. :/

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    I haven't heard much info regarding cholesterol in that respect, I can't imagine cholesterol in your blood being helpful but I really can't pretend to know what I'm talking about in this area, haha. I think might look into it now though cause its piqued my intrest.
    Latest word is that cholesterol plays very little part in arteriosclerosis, seem like
    inflammation is the primary culprit.
    Nobody cares...........

  15. #40
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    After some pretty deep investigation due to some extra down-time, cough hurricane sandy, cough, I'm pretty skeptical of this hypothesis. It's hard to find much, if any solid evidence supporting it. I was wondering if you had some resources I could check out? Thanks in advance.

  16. #41
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    Thanks for the tips. I doesn't really care much about exercising or diet until I had my gall bladder removed recently. Nowadays I'm more concern of what I eat, do more workout and change my lifestyle. That's why I took up cycling

  17. #42
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    Sorry, but no way in hell am I going to a vegan or even vegetarian diet.
    I like to wrap my meat in meat.

    I have meet with every meal except my when eating supplements.

    I will also agree with the post that 6 ft and 65kg is under weight.
    I am 5'11 and no way on Gods Green earth would I want to be 145 lbs.
    I got down to 155lbs a few years ago looked sick.
    I now weigh 165-170 lbs depending on how much beer I drink. lol

  18. #43
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    I think everyone forgets that the guy is an extreme endurance athlete. I think the amount of miles he does every day plays a big part in his weight. I'm 5'9 and weigh 195 after almost a year and half being vegan I lost almost all my fat and gained muscle. Before I was vegan I weighed 218 and felt like complete garbage all the time. Plus he named the thread, 'cycling tips for weight loss' not, 'cycling tips for people who think being skinny isn't healthy'. Haha.

  19. #44
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    Vegan bodybuilder



    I keed, I keed.


    But seriously, I really hate how most vegans try and post their lifestyle as healthier.
    Humans are omnivorous which means we are designed and built to meats as well as produce.

    That being said, yes most meats and foods have a lot of things in them that we are not designed to eat or process and meats can be a huge culprit in this with all the hormones and antibiotics that are pumped in them. Then on top of that, most people wont spend the money on the healthier leaner cuts of meat which is why the meats they eat make them feel slow and sluggish. On top of that, they choose poor balance and portion control.

    Yes, choosing a 1 lb fatty steak to eat because it was on sale is going to make you feel slow and sluggish. But 1/4 lb up to 1/2 lb of lean meat (depending on cut and activity level) is not bad. I personally usually eat salmon (or other healthy fish), chicken, turkey, occasionally lean cuts of pork, and if I must have red meat I go for bison.

    So if you want to go vegan, fine.
    It can be a healthy choice if you educate yourself on how to get complete protein aminos.
    However, having meat in your diet can also be just as healthy if you educate yourself on proper portion control and healthier choices in meat.

  20. #45
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    You guys realize he would need to drop "another 5-7 lbs" to be an upper elite road cyclist who is placing in the top 20 in grand tours. I also think a 145 lbs 6 foot male is skinny but its not Tour de France skinny. If you want to be winning the Tour that is where you need to be.

    I loved a quote by Tyler Hamilton in the "The Secret Race" were he said he knew he was ready when it hurt to sit on his ass for any length of time because he had no fat left. He was 5'9" and his weight 134 lbs. Contador is 5'9" and also weight s a 136lbs. Chris Froome is freak but can climb like the wind. Wiggins is 6'3" and weighs 152lbs. Its all relative to what you want to accomplish.

    When I hear weight, it depends how you look at it. If you want to progress as a cyclist the best thing you can do is lose weight. It is the single most important important thing to a novice or beginner cyclist.

    Erik

  21. #46
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    You can't say, "humans are designed to eat meat" and then in the next sentence say "meat has things we aren't designed to eat". Lol. Thats called a contradiction. Some would argue that we're far more well equipped to eat fruits, vegetables and starches than meat and dairy. I won't get into a "humans are designed to eat xxxx" debate though because I don't think humans were designed and I think that people greatly benefitted from eating animals in history.
    Complete protein amino acid blah blah blah is a myth started by a vegan propagated by omnivores to scare people away from it. The person who started the myth retracted it from a later version of her book at went on to say how mis interpreted it was. It's a shame because we don't give our bodies enough credit for just how efficient they are. It's also a shame that people think vegans have to meticulously plan out their protein consumption. It's even a shame that people think ANYONE has to do that. It's such a waste of energy.
    Vegans talk about how healthy their diets are because, the ones I know, myself included are all significantly healthier than having tried healthy SAD diets. Portion control, calorie counting and carb watching are all completely unnecessary when following a plant based diet packed with variety. Having tried a few different things to maintain normal weight, this is the only thing that worked and it worked extremely well.
    Bedell99 hit the nail on the head, this isn't a thread for bodybuilding. It's a thread about weight loss and one persons tips to help people. Durian is an endurance rider, not a bodybuilder. Omnivore endurance riders have similar physiques, we don't compare them to Jay Cutler.

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  23. #48
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    Idea!

    [QUOTE=RobHarmer;9864296]
    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    You can't say, "humans are designed to eat meat" and then in the next sentence say "meat has things we aren't designed to eat". Lol. Thats called a contradiction.
    Not a contradiction at all.

    You just pulled out part and twisted what I said to fit your agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    Complete protein amino acid blah blah blah is a myth started by a vegan propagated by omnivores to scare people away from it.
    Yes, because omnivores are constantly trying scare people away from veganism.

    That is why we start radical groups like PETA.......oh wait, it doesn't stand for People Eating Tasty Animals?

    I guess that was you guys then.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    ?...designed and built to meats as well as produce.

    That being said, yes most meats and foods have a lot of things in them that we are not designed to eat.
    You confuse my half joke with an agenda. The quote above wasn't twisted either, just quoted.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobHarmer View Post
    You confuse my half joke with an agenda. The quote above wasn't twisted either, just quoted.
    You must have stopped reading there.

    Now go back and read the whole post where I specified that hormones and antibiotics are pumped in some meat. Those are things in meat that I was referring to.

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