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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316 View Post
    What style of weight lifting is recommended for the ex-muscle head cyclist?
    Low to no weight, hi rep, long duration exercise.

    Google "fast and slow twitch muscle fibers" and "aerobic vs anaerobic"
    Round and round we go

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316 View Post
    What style of weight lifting is recommended for the ex-muscle head cyclist?
    Uhh, I dunno, lift less ride more?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Low to no weight, hi rep, long duration exercise.

    Google "fast and slow twitch muscle fibers" and "aerobic vs anaerobic"
    Exactly. Low weight and high rep
    Chances are .. You're full of !$@&?

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    I know where you're coming from on that bikenut. I was starting into power lifting, and tore my body up trying to do it, so I had to give it up. Found mountain biking, and have never looked back!!
    Core work is VERY important to what we do, yet what we do is not a great core workout. You need strong core to be able to control the bike. Sit ups, planks, back raises, and oblique workouts are paramount. As far as other lifts, low weight high rep upper body strength is a great way to work. Keep your arms strong, you need them to control the bike in turns. Keep your upper back strong, you need it also to control the bike.

    Legs.... oh the dreaded legs... Squats, dips, and dead lifts are all great exercises for the legs... only here is the kicker... we are used to doing leg lifts for sets of 5-10. Drop that theory. You want lower weight, and sets of 20-12-10 or 3x 20 if you can hack it. Where we once wanted to build strength and beauty, we now must concentrate on building longevity. Trust me, you'll maintain your beautiful legs, you'll just find that you have more stamina when using them. Also if you have a gym membership, and your gym features stair machines, use them. Not the step machines, but the ones that have the belt of stairs, use the heck out of those. It will target the key muscle groups that we use when climbing. (and will help give you a hind end that women love to see in jeans)

    It has been very hard for me to switch gears on this, because I never ever though about doing much more than getting really strong so I could pick up huge weight one time.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryantrek View Post
    I know where you're coming from on that bikenut. I was starting into power lifting, and tore my body up trying to do it, so I had to give it up. Found mountain biking, and have never looked back!!
    Core work is VERY important to what we do, yet what we do is not a great core workout. You need strong core to be able to control the bike. Sit ups, planks, back raises, and oblique workouts are paramount. As far as other lifts, low weight high rep upper body strength is a great way to work. Keep your arms strong, you need them to control the bike in turns. Keep your upper back strong, you need it also to control the bike.

    Legs.... oh the dreaded legs... Squats, dips, and dead lifts are all great exercises for the legs... only here is the kicker... we are used to doing leg lifts for sets of 5-10. Drop that theory. You want lower weight, and sets of 20-12-10 or 3x 20 if you can hack it. Where we once wanted to build strength and beauty, we now must concentrate on building longevity. Trust me, you'll maintain your beautiful legs, you'll just find that you have more stamina when using them. Also if you have a gym membership, and your gym features stair machines, use them. Not the step machines, but the ones that have the belt of stairs, use the heck out of those. It will target the key muscle groups that we use when climbing. (and will help give you a hind end that women love to see in jeans)

    It has been very hard for me to switch gears on this, because I never ever though about doing much more than getting really strong so I could pick up huge weight one time.
    I will concertrate on the higher reps. In addition to core, I do compound movements only eg. pull ups, presses and rows, no curls or tricepes. I feel that these compound movements build overall strength. The compound leg movements you describe are also great. However, with riding road and mtb year round, I just cannot recover from legs and be able to ride. I leave the leg excersises to riding and maybe one run a week. I read that more than 15 reps is inaffective. Then again, it's the internet.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    lift less ride more
    This ^ , and don't forget to do Hyperextension (exercise) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with your core work. For someone coming from a weight lifting background, who has mostly fast twitch muscles because of it, you're better off doing less lifting and more things like basketball, swimming, and cycling to build your slow twitch fibers.
    Look into/google/research spending more training time in your aerobic threshold because it gets your muscles better at ridding the lactic acid that makes you feel fatigue, as well as gets your mind used to dealing with dealing with it and therefore better at pushing on through it.
    Most would say you can't turn fast twitch into slow twitch muscle but you can, through training, get your slow twitch to grow and become more efficient. Althou fast twitch helps with sprinting and the likes, there's a point at which the simple mass and design of fast twitch muscle, or too much, gets in the way and tires you when doing things like cycling. Sounds like that's where you're at.
    Internet or not, if you talk to a bb anything more than 12 is a waste for most, but for slow twitch muscle training, 12+ reps with little to no rest between sets, and keep it there 45+ minutes with intervals is where it's at.
    Last edited by theMeat; 10-29-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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  7. #82
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    There is a lot of great information in the thread. To the OP congrats on both the race and the weight loss.

    I have a few things to highlight. Somewhere above somebody had said that timing is a key to weight loss and performance. Remember that our bodies work differently during exercise and during a sedentary state. There are different pathways for glucose to enter working muscle during exercise so during these times you don't need to worry as much about eating simple sugars. Exercise effects last anywhere from 30 min to an hour after. Therefore after exercise is the best time to replenish muscle glycogen and to add protein for rebuilding stressed muscle. A proper cycle of exercise and nutrition will teach your body to store glycogen in the muscle for when you need it. The other thing about timing and fueling for a ride is if you try to do a long ride on half a tank you are only going to be working at 50% vs if you were to be properly fueled you could do the same ride at 70% and feel the same. Working at the higher intensity is going to build muscle and increase performance.

    Cycling is an endurance sport, and for many people endurance exercises are not great for loosing weight because as said earlier it will tend to break down muscle for energy before it will break down fat stores. And that is two fold against loosing fat first you are not burning the fat and second muscle will burn more fat during sedentary times (rest and recovery). Therefor adding in high intensity interval training for power or speed (check out Joe Friel) is a great tool. This will cause you to use more anaerobic energy causing Excess Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption (EPOC) This will tap into the fat stores to burn off the excess waist products from anaerobic metabolism, I have herd that the effects can last for hours after I don't know about that but it will last well after exercise. The other benefit to high intensity intervals is building muscle which will burn more calories though the day.

    As mentioned in a round about way earlier if you don't fuel the body it can't perform.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrastories View Post
    There is a lot of great information in the thread. To the OP congrats on both the race and the weight loss.

    I have a few things to highlight. Somewhere above somebody had said that timing is a key to weight loss and performance. Remember that our bodies work differently during exercise and during a sedentary state. There are different pathways for glucose to enter working muscle during exercise so during these times you don't need to worry as much about eating simple sugars. Exercise effects last anywhere from 30 min to an hour after. Therefore after exercise is the best time to replenish muscle glycogen and to add protein for rebuilding stressed muscle. A proper cycle of exercise and nutrition will teach your body to store glycogen in the muscle for when you need it. The other thing about timing and fueling for a ride is if you try to do a long ride on half a tank you are only going to be working at 50% vs if you were to be properly fueled you could do the same ride at 70% and feel the same. Working at the higher intensity is going to build muscle and increase performance.

    Cycling is an endurance sport, and for many people endurance exercises are not great for loosing weight because as said earlier it will tend to break down muscle for energy before it will break down fat stores. And that is two fold against loosing fat first you are not burning the fat and second muscle will burn more fat during sedentary times (rest and recovery). Therefor adding in high intensity interval training for power or speed (check out Joe Friel) is a great tool. This will cause you to use more anaerobic energy causing Excess Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption (EPOC) This will tap into the fat stores to burn off the excess waist products from anaerobic metabolism, I have herd that the effects can last for hours after I don't know about that but it will last well after exercise. The other benefit to high intensity intervals is building muscle which will burn more calories though the day.

    As mentioned in a round about way earlier if you don't fuel the body it can't perform.
    I experience the delicate balance first hand. When I cut back on the carbs, the endurance and power always follows.

  9. #84
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    Re: Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question

    Try timing your nutrition a little differently small snack with carbs fats, and lots of fiber before a ride, simple sugars during a ride (don't worry about the insulin response it would take work the same durring exercise) then carbs, fat and protein after the ride. The total calories should be just below the calories expended durring the ride.
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  10. #85
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    Speaking of timing and carbs, some have good results with cycling carbs. Depending on when/how you exercise either no to low carbs for a few days (1 or 2), and then a few days of carbs (3+). Or carbs am and no to lo carbs pm or vise verse. Some just can't mess with carbs without seeing a downside but either way it takes a few weeks to adjust and see, maybe tweak and find that "balance". Strive for being carbed for exercise and give your body time to adapt to the initial more of a bonking feeling. IMO the more important your fitness/strength/stamina is over your weight to your goals, the less you should mess with carbs and the more they help you.
    The more complex the carb the longer lasting it is, the less spikes you should have, and the more ready you are for exercise, especially longer duration exercise. But after exercise simple carbs are fine, maybe even better since you're more depleted and they get absorbed faster also.
    An amazing to me amount of people equate carbs to starchy, processed, or gluttonous foods even though fruits, nuts, veggies etc are loaded with em. Also don't get eating while exercising for anything less than 2-3 hours most days unless i went in hungry, maybe if racing looking for every edge..
    Last edited by theMeat; 10-05-2013 at 08:59 PM.
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  11. #86
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    update for those who care:

    holding steady at 196 lbs... man its getting hard to lose weight under 200lbs... guess my body is fighting it...

    Im getting protein after rides, eating only whole grain/whole wheat carbs and still heavy on the fruit and veggies...

    Only eating elk, venison, and little bit of bison.

    another note is since my 213lbs to 196lbs I have lost around 2 to 3 inches off my waist... I mean I am fitting into 34 in waist Levis now... at 213 I couldnt fit into 36
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  12. #87
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    I would suggest cutting back on the wheat / carbs.

    Or try reducing your eating window, e.g. later breakfasts or earlier dinners and no late night snacks.

    Both of these things teach your body to burn fat for energy instead of relying on a steady stream of carbs.

  13. #88
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    Exchange some carbs for proteins. Work out a couple of hours in the morning before eating anything. Try a new physical activity for exercise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Exchange some carbs for proteins. Work out a couple of hours in the morning before eating anything. Try a new physical activity for exercise.
    working out in the morning while semi-fasting (as you say) has helped me in the past, thanks for the reminder...

    I am still seeing results that I am happy with.. just slow progress...
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  15. #90
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    Cool beans. Since you're losing waist size but not weight you must be gaining muscle while burning stores so congrads.
    Exercising while on empty like cardio after an hour long work out, or in the morn before eating is a good trick, best used for the last few stubborn pounds, or for a week or two in between cycles. Smaller more often meals is a better long term trick/strategy.
    If you feel like you're getting stronger, have more stamina, and you're clothes fit better than keep it up, it's working. If you make some more improvements, try some new methods, or just cut down on foods you can see faster progress, but go too far and your fitness gains will/can suffer.
    Some weeks you lose more than others even when things are the same, just the way it is. Look to stay the coarse for 6-8 weeks then make changes to avoid plateauing, dial into what works, what it takes, and how it effects you.
    Last edited by theMeat; 10-29-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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  16. #91
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    One of the biggest things I learned in my university nutrition class was variety is one of the best options for food. Different meats will offer you different proteins which your body needs. Same goes for vitamins and other nutrients. Try adding some variety to your diet it may keep things interesting and may give your body what it needs to both increase muscle and loose some more fat.
    That is some impressive weight loss and size loss keep it up.

    My biggest question for you is how does all this make you feel. I am a big believer that an active lifestyle can cure just about anything mental and physical.

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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrastories View Post
    One of the biggest things I learned in my university nutrition class was variety is one of the best options for food.
    Agreed, and it's how we evolved.
    Round and round we go

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    Nice job on moving below 200! I'm a couple of years into getting fit again, I was a pretty good c1 racer back 20 years ago, with job and kids etc I got up to about 225 a few years back. I cut the obvious junk out of my diet and lost the first 20 pounds in about 2 years. Then a little over 2 years ago I started regularly riding my bike again. I do lots of short hard hills on a fairly short mtb loop, they work as natural intervals, my heart rate is in the higher ranges most of the time. After getting down to about 190, I started racing again a little over a year ago, and I've not given much thought to losing weight, I just want to get fast.

    I understand (someone comment if I'm wrong) that by doing hard workouts and then needing to rebuild that muscle tissue I need fuel, - starving is the last thing I want to do. I have had very few 'empty stomachs' in the past year, and I try to snack pretty healthy, I also include protein bars and protein powder. I never ride on an empty stomach, for an early morning ride I cook 2 eggs in olive oil and maybe have a small piece of ham, or toast, after 2 to 2.5 hours I'm starting to get pretty hungry again. Lunch rides I'll eat a half sandwich, then finish the other half when I get back.
    I still eat a lot, but I ride my bike 4 or 5 times a week. I weighed myself the other day; 172#, I'm 6'3" and 46. I've been doing situps/pushups/pullups/backlifts after the bike workouts and I'm more muscly than I've ever been, and I'm having a good season in Cat3 cyclocross. I don't need to lose any more weight, but if I do while getting faster, that's ok, if I gain weight and get faster, that's ok too.
    Mostly ignoring the scale and just focusing on getting fast is working for me. Getting fast takes years for most people, - keep at it.

  19. #94
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    Cool beans Jim ^. Some things for you to consider.
    When it comes to pedaling do some days long and paced and other hard and fast. Road rider's that don't ride trails have no soul, mtber's that don't ride road have no legs.
    Some days split up your body weight exercises from your cycling so you can push as hard as possible at whichever for that day. You can also on some days split up your body weight exercises, ie, do rows and pull-ups one day till failure for full exhaustion of a certain muscle group, which will make recovery for that muscle group better/faster/easier also. This can/should also be thought of in terms or weeks instead of days, but the point is your training should have some varying emphasis on faster/longer/technical, both on and off the bike.
    Take 2 days off in a row every week or two, and take a week off anything more than light exercise for a full week every month or two.
    As a climactic end and to give yourself time to recover, push real hard, or real long before time off. I don't know your condition but squats/lunges and hyperextentions are great exercises for most too. Also, in general think it's better to exercise first ride after, but either way you should mix that up some too.
    Last edited by theMeat; 11-26-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrastories View Post
    One of the biggest things I learned in my university nutrition class was variety is one of the best options for food. Different meats will offer you different proteins which your body needs. Same goes for vitamins and other nutrients. Try adding some variety to your diet it may keep things interesting and may give your body what it needs to both increase muscle and loose some more fat.
    That is some impressive weight loss and size loss keep it up.

    My biggest question for you is how does all this make you feel. I am a big believer that an active lifestyle can cure just about anything mental and physical.

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
    sorry, I guess I should pay more attention to this thread

    I feel great. I really have reduced the amount of sick time taken in the past 2 years. My cravings for sweets and other bad foods has gradually been reduced with my new lifestyle. That took a long time.

    Wearing 34 waist jeans around work (considering I was wearing 40's about 2 years ago) has attracted a lot of attention. Its funny watching folks be very careful about how they compliment me because of all the ridiculous sexual harassment rules we have at my workplace... I think there is a very respectful way to tell someone they look attractive... But, I guess its always a few lewd males that ruin it for everyone...

    Looks like I am hitting another wall. I am still at 196.
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    Looks like I am hitting another wall. I am still at 196
    Looks like you can either improve/tweak/reduce your diet, or step up the exercise. For many just taking a week off every coupla 3 months gets progress moving again.
    Round and round we go

  22. #97
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    Only eating elk, venison, and little bit of bison.
    if you eat red meat (game meats are the key..) Now out and about I will have my 5-guys though at times...

    But there is a place here in Central Pa. I had been going to for about a decade now (they have great wild game burgers...)

    Fuddruckers®, World's Greatest Hamburgers®

    But when I was living in Philly I always wanted to go here (in fact I will drive here thus Spring just to try this place out..) supposed to be the Best 'Wild Game' restaurant (it's what I been hearing for years..)

    Fuddruckers only has 4 wild game burgers, this place has 3 times the selection on meats (and different variations...) I can't wait to try this spot (don't know anyone who has been to it though? just heard folks talking about it for the last 10 years when I inquired about wild game meats...)

    Unique Culinary Adventures: Wild Game Restaurant in Kennett Square, PA

    Then there is this place between Lancaster (Amish Country) and York Pa. They are cousins of the Paul Prudhomme (Spice) guy.. and this is the best alligator/frogs/ducks I ever had (though never had it really until this place)---and no I don't work for anyone here..

    Prudhomme's Lost Cajun Kitchen, a little bit of cajun in Pennsylvania, PA

    (I put a posts people are hating on about the best beer, have it here in tap, Majic Hat!!)---and when you have had it in this setting (you would think it is the best beer also)---this place has entertainment and food--just like you are in New Orleans!?!?!? no kidding, this could be the best restaurant experience ever!!

    Just from Philly (and the surrounding area) you have the best (freshest food anywhere I have been to.)--the Best sandwich in America (and mac and cheese) are at Reading Terminal in Philly... So living here (and being from Philly) you get spoiled with the food options....

    even the iron chef (Japanese guy Morimoto) has his restaurant in Philly!!

  23. #98
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    247, thanks. I am pretty positive the venison and elk I eat is farm raised. I would prefer wild but that is very hard to come by. Kind of annoys me because I know a lot of hunters here in arizona that just let their game sit in the freezer for years and finally when it's freezer burnt to hell, they throw it out. I am not sure why hunters generally cannot let go of their meat even when they know they are not going to eat it.

    I get my meats from Sprouts market. They are the only place I know of with a good exotic meat selection.

    We have fuddruckers here in Arizona, they used to have ostrich but that came off the menu. Now they only have Buffalo
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  24. #99
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    check your local farmers market (stuff there is usually the freshest food in any area)

    In Southeast/Central Pa. they even have the oldest farmers market in America in Lancaster (but maybe the Amish Mafia runs that??)---but the food here is just so fresh compared to other areas I have lived.. And if you can find the 'hard to find' game meats in Amish Country (you should be able to find it anywhere in the Country (one would think??)

    remember, Thanksgiving is all about turkey (and cheating on the diet to get your metabolism charged up)---

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    thanks 247!.

    194 lbs today. finally below 195. I can now fit into 33 waist jeans and my resting pulse was recorded at a lifetime low of 56 bpm...
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

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