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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    What things did he say that were wrong?
    Don't really want to watch it again but I do recall him playing both sides to make him seem right and smart. Like he says that lean mass increases metabolic rate which is true, but depending on your condition and genes you can start to use muscle as fuel when fasting so althou fasting itself doesn't slow your metab, which again he says and is true, the result or consequences may, and if fasting for 3 days in a row, or often enough it is more certain that it will..
    He also says that your body won't store more as a result of fasting and for some that may be true, or mostly true, but for some it simply isn't.
    Then he says that eating more often is wrong because you're eating more, no, no one who uses this and finds success says eat more, just more often, because it speeds your metab and supports your lean mass.
    The battle between insulin, epinephrine, glucagon, and growth hormones that constantly goes on in our bodies varies greatly between each of us, so to claim that "this is the way it happens" is a stretch.
    You're not in a fed state, as compared to fasting state for several hours, it's more like a few hours for most people and most foods.
    He also uses words like always, never and throws in way too many omgs and god forbids for me to believe he's not just talking to one side of the facts. Not saying his method or logic doesn't or can't work, but can say it won't for all and doesn't for me.
    Round and round we go

  2. #52
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    Wow, what a good thread. I am seeing many things come together for me. I have research a ton on the internet in the last month on these very subjects. The internet is great but full of conflicting information and dead end sales pitch leads desquised as solid information.

    I am living proof that one needs to be very careful how you approach mountain biking. Mountain biking is far and away the most strenuous intoxicating addicting thing I have ever done in my life.

    I am an expert in teaching and learning sports and body movement but found out I was stupidly deficient at my knowledge in nutrition and real high energy exercise. I thought I new a lot but there is nothing like a real wakeup call to point out the obvious assumptions and stupidity.

    The Perfect Storm:
    July 14 2013. As usual catastrophies are often a culmination of bad decisions that build on one another and so was my ride that Sunday.

    I had spend the last 6 weeks working on my bike and had it really dialed in. I was finally one with the bike. I was excited and wanted to try it. The only reasonably dry trail in the area is Mohican State Park. For a 58yo rider, Mohican is a handful with long steep climbs. I made the decision to go the next day. Problem one, I was excited enough that I did not get enough sleep the night before, maybe 4-5 hours. Problem number two the temps were going to reach the 90's early with high humidity. Problem three, I ate a breakfest of mostly carbs, very little protien of 850 calories. Problem number four, I take a fairly high dose of ADHD meds. Problem number five, My plan was to do only 8 miles so I did not carry any food, Problem number six I had 90 oz of water but few electrolytes. Problem number seven, I usually ride alone and did that morning.

    I got to the parking lot, changed quickly and got started. The bike was amazing and I was in the zone. Next thing I knew I was half way through at the covered bridge 11.5 miles in 55 minutes. My usual time for that run was 1 hour 25 minutes. I was stoked, I drank and bunch and stared up another long climb. By the top I started to get some cramps in the aductors and needed to walk a bit. I was cramping quite a bit by the time I arrived at a road at mile 19. I bailed on the rest of the trail and rode downhill to my truck. I cleaned up my bike and packed up. I was no longer having any cramping problems. i went to McDonalds and ate a southwest salad and small shake. I was tired early and went to bed early.

    The next morning I got up and seemed fine but by 10:00 AM I did not feel so good. I went to the bathroom and my urine was very dark yellow. I took my temperature and it was 100.5 deg F. I checked my BP and it was 98/66. I tend to be a bit dehydrated most of the time so I started to drink water plus electrolytes. I typed the symptoms into the computer and it spit out rhabdomyolysis. It did not sound very good and I made a list of symptoms and go/no go to the hospital. I should have gone to the hospital right then but figured I could do just about a much as they could so I did. I spent the next four day between 101 and 102 F body temps, BP between 98/62 to 65/40 and heart rates between 120-135 bpm and dark yellow urine. I did what I could to raise bp and even put on compression socks and took low dose aspirin.

    I seemed okay at the end of that four days from hell and had one good day. The next day my kidneys started to purge built up deposits from the previous four day. I passed gravel, small stones and gunk for 8 hours. Not fun. The next day I developed a secondary prostate infection and extreme pain during urination. That sent me to the hospital when I could no longer urinate. The sent me home with antibiotics and pain meds. I did not take the pain meds and toughed it out.

    The only positive thing to come out of it is complete elimination of trigger points and joint pain with a slight decrease in systolic bp numbers.

    All it takes is one episode like the above to bring serious doubts to your casual approach to nutrition and exercise. I was under the assumption that I would burn up some fat. Wrong, I now know the exertion level and environmental conditions were far to high.

    This thread is great as I have been a bit confused as the what course of action to take. Obviously there is no quick fix and a multi-approach plan is needed if I am to mountain bike the way I want to.

    I believe some adjustments need to be made in the ADHD meds as well as better adhesion to diet and develop a training plan.

    My wife picked up a heart rate monitor and computer for me about two weeks ago. I have been out riding with it and playing with changing how I ride. According to base charts my top heart rate should be 162 but that number appears to vary considerably between individuals. My cardio zone should be 85-138 bpm. In the parking lot I am runing 112-120 bpm. The minute I start the hr drops to 100-108 bpm for a few minutes and then starts to climb. I don't feel like I am pushing to hard and my rate jumps into the 140's. I start to really flow about 150-160 and have peaked out at 180 over the last two weeks. I am 58 years old, 5' 9" and 180lb. Even at 180 bpm I can still carry out a conversation. I feel winded but not totally spent. In the 145 to 155 range I feel pretty good and my average for a typical ride ends up near the bottom of the 145-155 range. I have checked with more than one hr monitor. I have a fairly fast metabolism as I need around 2600 calories to maintain and 3300 with a one hour singletrak ride.

    My bloodwork is checked regularly every three months and with this recent bought, two extra times. Everything runs normal even when checked a week after rhabdo. My doctor seems unconcerned about the high heart rate given the bloodwork and lack of being out of breath during rides. Confusing

    This thread may help me sort things out and develop a personal plan. Again, excellent thread.

  3. #53
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    Cool thread.. yeah, regular blood work for a bit can help sort your levels out so you can know where you need to be. Also, you might request to have all your thyroid levels checked (by a specialist, labs can a bit more expensive but overlooked, a lot)

  4. #54
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    PierreR, not commenting on your fitness at all as obviously you're in better shape than most people your age but it may be beneficial for you to have a stress test done to find your actual max heart rate so you can accurately calculate your heart rate zones for any training purposes

    this article mentions how to fairly accurately find your max but it's up to you how comfortable you feel stressing yourself to the limit without medical supervision

    Heart Rate Monitor Training For Cyclists: The Basics - BikeRadar

    the reason I mention this is that the zones felt low to me as well, according to the math and charts my MHR is 185-194 however my monitor has measured almost 200 on occasion
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  5. #55
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    The charts can't tell you what your MHR is. Your MHR can only be determined by finding what the maximum really is and it doesn't remain static.

  6. #56
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    You are right but for training purposes charts is a good way to go, unless you want to find out where your heart attack or puke threshold is on any given day.
    Thank you Titans for posting some useful info.
    Round and round we go

  7. #57
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    Well, one's maximum heart rate has absolutely nothing to do with a heart attack threshold, it is merely your maximum heart rate.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Well, one's maximum heart rate has absolutely nothing to do with a heart attack threshold, it is merely your maximum heart rate.
    Thanx, I was kidding about the term heart attack threshold so if there is such a term it's news to me.
    Round and round we go

  9. #59
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    Me after the race.... Thank god for egg, potato, and cheese burritos.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question-100_0668-copy-copy.jpg  

    Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question-100_0669-copy.jpg  

    Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question-100_0672-copy.jpg  

    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  10. #60
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    Most basic, recurring theme to keep in mind is that Muscle Fibers need to actually fracture themselves (minutia scale) then heal, and then grow. It's how they become stronger. Having excess fat reserves shifts biology from using the bodies metabolic-rate to circulate blood and oxygen to and from Muscles to ridding excess, spent food-energy.

    When finally at a low BMI, and a higher skeletal-muscle percent, consistent exercise and varieties-of will open up a small pocket for food to both satisfy taste and to feed muscle.

    About the best benefit of reaching that as a goal or as a plateau within your routines is being able to recognize those days when the amount of foods taken in in fact did not do anything to enable your next workout day, riding day, or just structured-time for a good meal.

    Once again, congrats with your Race - keep going with it.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches.

  11. #61
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    Food & Nutrition Myths: Bicycle Training | Bicycling Magazine
    Just finished reading this interesting article. Bicycling magazine is a good nutrition and training resource.
    I'm finding that since Dropping 20lbs I'm having a hard time sustaining long rides. I'm researching how to better fuel my body so it can keep up with my cardio. I'm guessing my body has less excess "fuel" (body fat) now that I'm leaner.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    So here was what I ate this past few days

    Thursday.
    breakfast -- egg, potato, cheese burrito
    lunch -- bowl of elk chili with rice
    dinner -- egg potato cheese burrito

    Friday
    breakfast -- 2 eggs, beans, and 2 slices of turkey bacon
    lunch -- bowl of elk chili with rice
    dinner -- 3/4 lbs of pasta with sauce made of bison, tomato, bell pepper

    Saturday I was not hungry, I forced myself to drink 32 oz of Gatorade and 2 cliff bars.

    Wow was my engine full. My energy was never before this high.

    I completed the one lap race of 10 miles in 63 minutes. My pre-ride was about 90 minutes.

    Race Info


    It was my first race so I did the beginner 1 lap version and I came in 2nd place. I was not expecting to this well at all.
    Comparing this diet to the diet you posted earlier...the carbs helped. Taters, rice and pasta are great foods for cycling. Try adding some ripe bananas in your diet and your energy and recovery will increase. Good job on the race!!!

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by amabala View Post
    Comparing this diet to the diet you posted earlier...the carbs helped. Taters, rice and pasta are great foods for cycling. Try adding some ripe bananas in your diet and your energy and recovery will increase. Good job on the race!!!

    I should also mention I rested (did not ride) for the 3 days prior to the race...
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  14. #64
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    Glad to hear the your performance increased with a little bit of food balance!! Keep it up, you'll notice that you continue to drop some fat while you're at it!!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    I should also mention I rested (did not ride) for the 3 days prior to the race...
    I am sure that helped too.

  16. #66
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    little update... 201 lbs as of this morning... but felt a bit dizzy this morning after a ride...

    ate 2 bananas and drank some electrolytes... and feeling better now... Its interesting getting back into territory I havent been in for about 20 years...
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  17. #67
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    Although I am a clyde who is in the process of getting fit, I laugh at a lot of the stuff I read in the clyde's forum. At the end of the day there is only one way to lose weight properly. That is a combination of legitimate science and exercise. Not trendy diets or some level of starvation.

    Is it hard to lose the RIGHT way? You bet it is, and lets be honest, it is discouraging at times. However, the long term body composition numbers are the most important, not weight.

    Pay close attention to the previous posters who have used phrases like BMR (Basil Metabolic Rate), Daily Caloric Requirement, Activity Level/Rating, Reduced Daily Caloric Requirement. These are the guys you want to listen to. Also, you might want to invest in a nice scale. It may cost you a couple hundred dollars, but knowing your body fat %, muscle mass, and hydration are priceless when you are trying to better yourself. Having a tool like this is what lets me know I have not lost a single pound of muscle during my weight loss/fitness efforts. I don't lift weights anymore, but I know I have gained 5-7 lbs. of muscle (Fluctuates based on hydration) in the past 15 months. In those 15 months I have also lowered my body fat percentage from 33-35% to 22-24%.

    FYI:
    6'2, 223-225 lbs, 22-24 body fat %, 163-166 lbs of muscle, typical hydration % is 51-52%. All my numbers are based on my Tanita body composition scale. It could be wrong, but long as certain numbers go down, and certain numbers go up, I'm good with that.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRS73 View Post
    Although I am a clyde who is in the process of getting fit, I laugh at a lot of the stuff I read in the clyde's forum. At the end of the day there is only one way to lose weight properly. That is a combination of legitimate science and exercise. Not trendy diets or some level of starvation.

    Is it hard to lose the RIGHT way? You bet it is, and lets be honest, it is discouraging at times. However, the long term body composition numbers are the most important, not weight.

    Pay close attention to the previous posters who have used phrases like BMR (Basil Metabolic Rate), Daily Caloric Requirement, Activity Level/Rating, Reduced Daily Caloric Requirement. These are the guys you want to listen to. Also, you might want to invest in a nice scale. It may cost you a couple hundred dollars, but knowing your body fat %, muscle mass, and hydration are priceless when you are trying to better yourself. Having a tool like this is what lets me know I have not lost a single pound of muscle during my weight loss/fitness efforts. I don't lift weights anymore, but I know I have gained 5-7 lbs. of muscle (Fluctuates based on hydration) in the past 15 months. In those 15 months I have also lowered my body fat percentage from 33-35% to 22-24%.

    FYI:
    6'2, 223-225 lbs, 22-24 body fat %, 163-166 lbs of muscle, typical hydration % is 51-52%. All my numbers are based on my Tanita body composition scale. It could be wrong, but long as certain numbers go down, and certain numbers go up, I'm good with that.
    Already done (2nd page of this thread)... I have all the info. I am still struggling a bit on how to eat ... but Ill get it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question-scan2.jpg  

    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  19. #69
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    weighed myself yesterday AT 199 !!!!!! I think I may have been a bit dehydrated... but hey still a great milestone !!!
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    weighed myself yesterday AT 199 !!!!!! I think I may have been a bit dehydrated... but hey still a great milestone !!!

    Congrats, feels great doesn't it?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    Already done (2nd page of this thread)... I have all the info. I am still struggling a bit on how to eat ... but Ill get it.
    I saw it before my first post.

    Did this company go through these numbers with you? Provide any suggestions?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    weighed myself yesterday AT 199 !!!!!! I think I may have been a bit dehydrated... but hey still a great milestone !!!
    Good for you! It's awesome when your efforts pay off.
    Anyone who's been at it for a while can tell you it's not a matter of what works but what works for you, and your progress tells of you dialing in. Progress happens in waves, ride this wave until it ebbs and then you can think about what to do to step it up. Once it's not a "diet" and "exercise" and just a way of life or simply what you do you're on your way to a healthier you. Making small changes every few months or so, that you can incorporate into a lifestyle and live with is the best way to make it permanent.
    Round and round we go

  23. #73
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    Glad to see that the advice is working for you!!

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Congrats, feels great doesn't it?
    yes it does... down to 197 now... one lb at a time I guess.
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  25. #75
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    I am 47 5'9" 190 approx 19% bf. I could lose some fat but my issue is also muscle weight. I have lifted weight since I was a kid and hold on to a lot of muscle. At my age, this is a good thing except when climbing. I only lift twice a week now, moderate weight and only to maintain strength. On climbs, fellow riders are spinning away while I do thousands of reps of leg press with my pedals. What style of weight lifting is recommended for the ex-muscle head cyclist?

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