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  1. #26
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    Regarding refined carbs and sugar. Bad stuff. There is a correlation between disease states and their consumption in western civ.
    In the 70's read a book called 'Sugar Blues'.
    Since then, Ive eaten little of both.
    I'm afraid of heights so a 26'r fits me to a T.

  2. #27
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    Race results

    So here was what I ate this past few days

    Thursday.
    breakfast -- egg, potato, cheese burrito
    lunch -- bowl of elk chili with rice
    dinner -- egg potato cheese burrito

    Friday
    breakfast -- 2 eggs, beans, and 2 slices of turkey bacon
    lunch -- bowl of elk chili with rice
    dinner -- 3/4 lbs of pasta with sauce made of bison, tomato, bell pepper

    Saturday I was not hungry, I forced myself to drink 32 oz of Gatorade and 2 cliff bars.

    Wow was my engine full. My energy was never before this high.

    I completed the one lap race of 10 miles in 63 minutes. My pre-ride was about 90 minutes.

    Race Info


    It was my first race so I did the beginner 1 lap version and I came in 2nd place. I was not expecting to this well at all.

  3. #28
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    Gatorade--not so good.
    I'm afraid of heights so a 26'r fits me to a T.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    So here was what I ate this past few days

    Thursday.
    breakfast -- egg, potato, cheese burrito
    lunch -- bowl of elk chili with rice
    dinner -- egg potato cheese burrito

    Friday
    breakfast -- 2 eggs, beans, and 2 slices of turkey bacon
    lunch -- bowl of elk chili with rice
    dinner -- 3/4 lbs of pasta with sauce made of bison, tomato, bell pepper

    Saturday I was not hungry, I forced myself to drink 32 oz of Gatorade and 2 cliff bars.

    Wow was my engine full. My energy was never before this high.

    I completed the one lap race of 10 miles in 63 minutes. My pre-ride was about 90 minutes.

    Race Info


    It was my first race so I did the beginner 1 lap version and I came in 2nd place. I was not expecting to this well at all.

    Congrats - get a first place and we'll allow you 1 'Cheat Day' a month to indulge a bit.
    I like Sand -- I don't like Witches.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Congrats - get a first place and we'll allow you 1 'Cheat Day' a month to indulge a bit.

    funny...

  6. #31
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    I am following this thread with great interest. I went from 240 to 175 by dropping to 1000 calories a day over a year ago. Could not find any energy to do much bike riding during the diet. I have always put in 1000 to 3000 miles a year. I have stepped up to around 1800 calories a day this year and ended up at 190. Putting in about 100 miles a week at present and getting ready for CX season. Would like to get back down to 175 or lower, but it sure is hard to fuel the body, workout and loose weight.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiorick View Post
    I am following this thread with great interest. I went from 240 to 175 by dropping to 1000 calories a day over a year ago. Could not find any energy to do much bike riding during the diet. I have always put in 1000 to 3000 miles a year. I have stepped up to around 1800 calories a day this year and ended up at 190. Putting in about 100 miles a week at present and getting ready for CX season. Would like to get back down to 175 or lower, but it sure is hard to fuel the body, workout and loose weight.
    Its almost impossible to lose weight if you are properly fueling your body. I always gain about 5 lbs over the course of XC racing season, you would think it would be the other way around. How are your energy levels eating 1800 a day? I'm about 170 lbs and have to eat about 2600 calories a day to properly fuel my body for training, the day before a race I will eat over 3000 (mostly simple carbs). Eating only 1800 a day may cause your body to go into starvation mode and store everything you consume as fat, leaving you very little energy to train and race. I have a friend who runs this site about fitness, tons of info here.
    John Stone Fitness - Fat Loss, Muscle Building, Body Transformation and Inspiration
    He also has a site that you can use to figure out your BMR as well as log all your food etc.
    JSF BodyShop™

  8. #33
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    Re: Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question

    It is possible to cause long lasting metabolic damage by lowering your calorie intake by too much for a long period of time. The best way to lose weight is to eat at a 10-20% caloric deficit (20% when you are way overweight, then closer to 10% once you get closer to your target weight). Most importantly, BE PATIENT! It's possible to lose weight and make performance gains at the same time, but your performance will suffer if you don't meet minimum caloric needs.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4 Beta

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Its hard to improve performance and lose more than a pound or two a week. Play to your strengths and worry about the weight secondarily imo. Being weakened due to sub par nutition is going to affect your results far more than the extra pounds. The advise about basal metabolic rate and adjusting calories tailored to activity is right on the money.
    This is a great post and makes perfect sense.
    Round and round we go

  10. #35
    I Tried Them ALL... Moderator
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    You guys also need to factor in water retention too. As we sweat heavily in MTB - we often tend to compensate for that electrolyte loss by re-fueling with foods that contain lots of salt. The sodium content is what skews the scale and gives you the impression nothing is lost, through water retention - which can easily show a 3-8 pound increase. Most likely that super-bloated feeling you get after an epic ride, is the contents of your 3L hydration pack(notice you barely urinated?) and the gas buildup from your Clif Bar.

    Lastly, trying to lose fat is simply NOT easy. The body tries very hard to fight off all your efforts, especially the last remaining 10 pounds. You see - fat storage is a primordial survival mechanism. The body does it under two conditions; during starve mode and when leading a sedentary lifestyle. In early fat loss, the body easily gives it up, when intense activity increases. Metabolism is the key to losing body fat. It's a furnace inside your body that literally needs to be stoked constantly....ie; forever, if you wish to die skinny. Thin people lead a lifestyle that embodies active physical exertion, combined with enough calories. A slow, gradual caloric deficit over YEARS is far more effective than rapid, body-transforming fat loss...which leaves you looking like a Liposuction machine just beat you up and with sagging, skin flaps looking worse than the fat itself.
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  11. #36
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    Don't know where this thread is going but here's my .02
    It's not only quantity, and of coarse quality, but timing of your diet.
    There's no hard and fast only general rules for how many calories per person. It's not just a matter of how big or active a person is because sleep time and how fast a persons metab is, how much muscle mass they have, and genes all play a role.
    Mr. Dirty Sanches makes a good point about going into a race and i will add that aside from maybe carbing up you shouldn't make any changes before a race.
    2 ways to cut fat while gaining muscle
    - eat 5 or more meals a day instead of 3. After 3 hours or so most foods, especially proteins are used up, so eating smaller more often meals keeps your body out of fasting mode and fueled for action and recovery better. Another benefit from this is that muscle mass, or the more you have, helps speed your metab even at rest, so building more and keeping it from being consumed for fuel is key.
    -have a cup o joe and go. When you wake after sleeping you're in fasting mode like it or not, so if you do cardio straight away before eating you start to cut stores right away not the usual 20-30 minutes into it at other times because you first have to use up food fuel. If, when that's not doable eat asap to get out of fasting mode. The only other good time to do this quick cut cardio is after a hard work out because for the same reason your food fuel is used. At all other times avoid fasting mode by eating every 3 hours, and always eat after exercise.

    Don't live or judge by the scale but instead how your clothes fit and by your energy and strength levels. Since muscle is more dense than fat you could be gaining muscle while loosing fat and the scale knows not.
    Round and round we go

  12. #37
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    for my own purposes, this may be the most helpful thread I have been involved with so far on this forum

    Ill be taking all advice to heart...

  13. #38
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    I skimmed, and I didn't see where anyone had stated this prior, so I'm going to bring it up. Your weight lost could have been muscle. In the weight lifting world, any trainer will tell you, when you're working muscles heavily, don't EVER train to a weight. I started weight lifting at 265 lbs. I went down to 245 REALLY fast, and then started climbing back up and up and up. I was pissed, very pissed. I started fooling with my diet, dropping out the proteins and the carbs a little bit at a time, and finally started to see a decline again.... but also noted that my weight sets were dropping off fast. Then the amount of weight I was moving started dropping off, then, there I was, back at 245 again. Stop looking for a certain weight, plan more around a body fat percentage you think is acceptable. The muscles we work in our sport/ hobby are some of the largest in the human body. You build the proper leg strength to ride strong, you're going to gain some serious muscle weight!!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryantrek View Post
    I skimmed, and I didn't see where anyone had stated this prior, so I'm going to bring it up. Your weight lost could have been muscle. In the weight lifting world, any trainer will tell you, when you're working muscles heavily, don't EVER train to a weight. I started weight lifting at 265 lbs. I went down to 245 REALLY fast, and then started climbing back up and up and up. I was pissed, very pissed. I started fooling with my diet, dropping out the proteins and the carbs a little bit at a time, and finally started to see a decline again.... but also noted that my weight sets were dropping off fast. Then the amount of weight I was moving started dropping off, then, there I was, back at 245 again. Stop looking for a certain weight, plan more around a body fat percentage you think is acceptable. The muscles we work in our sport/ hobby are some of the largest in the human body. You build the proper leg strength to ride strong, you're going to gain some serious muscle weight!!
    fyi, i had my fat percentage checked (bod pod), and it's 24%. Which is considered unhealthy. So I certainly have room to burn fat.

  15. #40
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    24%, yes, you can still stand to lose fat, but when you start to destroy your intake, your body is going to switch over from burning fat to burning muscle. Your fat stores burn more rapidly than your muscles, thus your body, once it goes into starvation mode, is going to chase after the better fuel, once it starts to run out of better fuel, it will switch over to burning your fat. This is what's going to make your climbing strength less. I would most certainly find out what the basal metabolic rate would be for your ideal weight, and that's what you eat. For a fairly active person, 210 lbs, 5'10" at around 35 years old, the BMR is nearly 3200 calories a day!! That is the number of calories you need to survive just being mildly active, on top of keeping your internal organs alive through a day of life. I personally could not be angrier at the fact that someone out there somewhere decided that 2000 calories is ideal, and that 3 meals a day is the best. I would never recommend anything less than 5 meals a day. 2000 calories is probably what you want to eat at your deficit calories. 2500 would likely be closer to what you would eat at your weight with a sedentary lifestyle. Up your calories through some protein, also, up your carbs a bit as you get closer to the actual race.

    There is a lot of science to losing fat, and not losing muscle at the same time. What we do as our sport/ hobby is an endurance sport, so it should be trained for thusly. If you're not eating enough, you're going to lose your largest asset in the fight!!

    There is a website called bodybuilding.com that will educate you in the proper way to eat to lose fat and maintain muscle at the same time.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryantrek View Post
    24%, yes, you can still stand to lose fat, but when you start to destroy your intake, your body is going to switch over from burning fat to burning muscle. Your fat stores burn more rapidly than your muscles, thus your body, once it goes into starvation mode, is going to chase after the better fuel, once it starts to run out of better fuel, it will switch over to burning your fat. This is what's going to make your climbing strength less. I would most certainly find out what the basal metabolic rate would be for your ideal weight, and that's what you eat. For a fairly active person, 210 lbs, 5'10" at around 35 years old, the BMR is nearly 3200 calories a day!! That is the number of calories you need to survive just being mildly active, on top of keeping your internal organs alive through a day of life. I personally could not be angrier at the fact that someone out there somewhere decided that 2000 calories is ideal, and that 3 meals a day is the best. I would never recommend anything less than 5 meals a day. 2000 calories is probably what you want to eat at your deficit calories. 2500 would likely be closer to what you would eat at your weight with a sedentary lifestyle. Up your calories through some protein, also, up your carbs a bit as you get closer to the actual race.

    There is a lot of science to losing fat, and not losing muscle at the same time. What we do as our sport/ hobby is an endurance sport, so it should be trained for thusly. If you're not eating enough, you're going to lose your largest asset in the fight!!

    There is a website called bodybuilding.com that will educate you in the proper way to eat to lose fat and maintain muscle at the same time.
    here you go. this may answer your questions ? Here is an analysis done on me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Burning Stored Fat and Climbing Ability / Performance : Question-scan2.jpg  


  17. #42
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    i've also relied on the 5 meals a day program, but i recently read that if 3 a day work better for you,than go with it.Intermittant fasting is also something i do with with some success.

  18. #43
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    Your age height and weight BMR is 1858 calories. That is saying that to exist you will require 1858 calories. This does not include any exercise, movements, work loads, mowing the yard, nothing. Your body will require 1858 calories per day to simply exist. When you cut yourself down to 1500, you are taking away the fuel that you need to make it through a day, so your body starts to shut down, and use itself for fuel. Muscles first, blubber stores second. (it's got to eat the fast food first, then the long food second. The faster of the two foods makes more room in the body to store up that fat) at the same time that it is eating away at your muscle, it is also going to start shutting down what is not vital (vital being brain heart and lung function) That being said, your leg and arm muscles aren't going to get fed, they are last on the list of required feed!!

    Start out by bumping up to eating at least your BMR point. Once you start doing that for a couple of weeks, look at how you're feeling. If you start to note an increase in strength and stamina, and a continued loss in body fat, then we have a winning combination!! (remember we talked about losing body fat not weight!!) When you go into this, a calorie is not a calorie, so start working harder on macros (protein, carbs, and finally fat) Carbs are just sugar, some burn fast, some slow. Brown things (brown rice, wheat bread, oat meal) burn slower than white things (white rice, white bread, and the all dreaded SUGAR) so only use those items in the morning, where your glycogen stores are most in need of a refuel. Protein, you're not a body builder here, so lets try to keep the protein about a half gram per pound of weight. Finally, fats are not a scary word!! Fish oils, pure animal fats (chicken, turkey, and beef are fantastic, as is milk) are required for functionality. Low fat does not mean lost weight, trust me, it's a ruse!! Just be mindful of the things you are putting in your body. Natural foods are ALWAYS better than things that have been processed in some way or another. Throw your chicken on your grill and cook it up with some salt and pepper. Natural, delicious, and not processed. Give some of these ideas a worl and see how you feel. And keep remembering, we're not trying to lose weight, we're trying to toast body fat....


    *disclaimer... I am not a nutritionist, just a "bro scientist" that stayed at a holiday inn express once. I also did a LOT of research on the exact type of thing that you want to accomplish for about a year while I was testing and using it myself. It worked very well for me, and for numerous body builders I know. What you are looking for is not body builder physique, so the calories aren't going to be as high, but the basic formula is still the same. Body builders do this 3 to 10 times a year with competition. They will drop from your body fat to 5-7% in a few weeks time without losing any muscle or strength (poses are very taxing on the body believe it or not).

    Hope that rambling mess has been in any way helpful for you.

  19. #44
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    Ryan:

    Wow thanks for your response... Ill try the 1800 calories per day for now... That should not be too hard to do... and I already eat mostly "natrual" foods anyway, that should not be an issue... I am a firm believer of more natural foods when I lost 12 lbs in 3 weeks in Ecuador without even trying...

  20. #45
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    If you have 20 minutes to spare:


  21. #46
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    Thanx for sharing Beanbag. Althou he makes some interesting points he's also wrong about many, contradicts himself, as well as bunches people together as far as what they will see as results. Also IME IF 1 day a week throws a wrench into my long term progress, ymmv.
    Round and round we go

  22. #47
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    There is no exact science to this stuff. The only thing that is exact is that the human body needs fuel to survive. Without it, we fall apart. Knowing the science behind how food works, and then taking that information and working it together to make a plan that works for YOU is what needs to be done. You can take two people, both body builders, both with numerous merits to their name, and dissect their diet and exercise plans and find that they both work completely differently.

  23. #48
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    I'm moving off a long plateau in my weight loss quest so I'm going to throw out what's working for me currently

    I calculated my TDEE, assuming little exercise as I have a desk job, then I averaged my last 3 months of calorie burn data thanks to garmin into a daily number and added those numbers together to show a more accurate TDEE

    then I set a food goal of the new TDEE minus 500 cal per day, as well as an exercise goal of at least my average for the last few months

    I log the data on a weekly basis rather than daily, allowing myself some vital extra calories post ride and the mornings after, if I miss a goal for either exercise or calories for a day, it all comes out at the end of the week

    it's the same goal but a little less strict and I feel like I have more energy than just setting a calorie goal based on an activity level that is not a true reflection of my workouts or daily routine
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    Ryan:

    Wow thanks for your response... Ill try the 1800 calories per day for now... That should not be too hard to do... and I already eat mostly "natrual" foods anyway, that should not be an issue... I am a firm believer of more natural foods when I lost 12 lbs in 3 weeks in Ecuador without even trying...
    I've read what you have posted as your diet and there is very little in there that is "natural". Personally, I think you eat too much junk food. Your diet looks like a lot of cheese, eggs, and meat. I wouldn't touch any of those.

    If you actually ate real natural food you could eat nearly as much as you wanted and your body work more efficiently at dividing up the nutrition as it needed it. Just my two pennies.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Thanx for sharing Beanbag. Althou he makes some interesting points he's also wrong about many, contradicts himself, as well as bunches people together as far as what they will see as results. Also IME IF 1 day a week throws a wrench into my long term progress, ymmv.
    What things did he say that were wrong?

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