Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 88
  1. #1
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778

    Am I doing this right?

    I have been riding about 5 weeks now and my main goal is to lose weight....a lot of it. 40-50lbs by the end of the season. Over the past 5 weeks I have set up my ride program as well as my diet.

    Me

    Male, 43, 6'1" 230ish (started at 240)

    Bike

    2013 Specialized RockHopper expert.

    Ride

    I ride 30-45 minutes a day, everyday. I have a great trail that isabout 10km long with a 5 km road drive back. I drive this same circuit everytime and time myself. I hit it like a race every single time and go flat out to try to beat yesterday's time. My best is 14.8km in 39 minutes. My trail has a huge hill. 99% of people walk up but my last 2 times out I have conquered it.

    Diet

    I am doing a "Not raw vegan" diet. I have been counting calories and keep it under 2000/day but eating all fruit and veggies. I eat at least half of my veggies raw and steam the rest. I call this "Not raw vegan" because I also eat 1 boneless skinless chicken breast at dinner and 2 eggs at breakfast.

    Does this seem like a healthy weight loss program?
    Please advise me on anything I should do different.
    I am totally doing this on my own. This site is where I amnlearning to ride and my diet is just a guess based on internet information.

    Thanks in advance...I do realize I have lost weight but just getting my butt off the couch would do this regardless.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Here's my $.02 for what it's worth.

    Don't forget to rest. Rest is when you make gains. It won't hurt you to take a day off every few days or at least an easy day.

    Calories, don't cut them too much. You want to figure out your maintenance and shoot for around 500 calorie below that. Cut too much and you could negatively effect your energy levels making it hard to workout/ride. Too low calorie diet is also hard to maintain.

    Vegan...be careful that you are getting enough protein. I did vegan for awhile and even did full raw for about 6 months. Lost about 40 pounds. Most was muscle. It's very hard to get protein eating vegan and even more so eating raw. I think vegan is a pretty good way to eat but you will likely lose muscle to a point where your body levels out and stabilizes. For me, that was unacceptable. I'm pretty heavily muscled and I don't like the thought of losing much of that.

    Since you are eating a little meat and eggs anyways...I'd strongly suggest looking into Paleo/primal eating. It's pretty much what you are doing now but with more protein. The basis of Paleo is meat, vegetables, some fruit, little nuts and seeds, no grains, no sugar, no dairy. So basically you eat meat, veggies, fruits/nuts/seeds and you cut out the refined processed junk.

    I just look at it as a whole food diet. I pretty much just cut out pasta, breads, refined sugar, starchy foods like white potatoes and rice, milk, ect. as much as possible, I eat lots of eggs and meat though I have cut back on the meat, tons of vegetables and probably too much fruit but I don't care. I love the stuff and I'll keep eating it. I do also eat yogurt and some cheese but I've cut way back on the cheese.

    Last year I lost 80 pounds doing this and riding. I'm still trying to lose 40-50 more and I kinda let things go diet-wise. Not too bad but enough my weight loss stalled for awhile. I'm getting back on track though so I'm hoping the weight will start coming off again soon.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  3. #3
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    Thanks for your input. I will look at all of that. Congrats on your weight loss . That's huge!!

  4. #4
    Broken Hipster
    Reputation: Barman1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    781
    Your energy level and general health will dictate whether your diet is working for you but it sounds pretty healthy to me.

    Prior to last season I had a similar goal.
    Started the season at 6'6", 270, 52 years old. Ex football, rugby, body builder, military, etc.
    I vowed to ride every day, diet, and transform myself to cycling shape.
    I ate a less healthy (mostly protein) diet than you've listed but I did keep my calories less than 1500 per day and gave up most alcohol. That was the toughest part...
    Picked up a trainer to work out with over the winter and started my season this year at 185 lbs which was too light for my frame so bulked up to 205 with some upper body work and a small change in my diet.
    It's easy to put the weight back on so I give myself only a 5 lb gain limit then go back to the 1500 calorie diet to shed it off.
    I don't know what other advice I can give except keep working on it, you'll find what works specifically for you.

  5. #5
    RAKC/ITUO
    Reputation: tigris99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    6,692
    Being my loss of almost 100lbs in the last 2 yrs I can tell u biggest thing, processed sugary fatty greasy crap has to go.

    Fish a big plus for protien. Also don't eliminate red meat all together, if uve been eating it all along then stop ur body will get pissed. Keep it leaner cuts and not often. carbs limit and keep to whole grain stuff minimal ingredients.

    But as said only ull know what works best but natural is always best regardless
    Great lights:

    www.ituolights.com

    Life on 2 wheels is the only life for me. Especially once it gets dark.

  6. #6
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    Do you think I would be better off riding longer periods (2hrs+) with a rest day in between rides?

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    I'd mix it up. My riding last year was 95% road so I was doing 30-70 miles at a time but only a few times per week or as often as I was able. Long rides are great for a good calorie burn. Short intense rides are great for conditioning and cardio and of course you'll burn calories too.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    64
    I'm not a huge believer in temporary diets. They get the weight off, but they don't keep it off. Permanent lifestyle changes seem to be a better solution, IMO.

    So from my perspective, whether or not you're 'doing it right' depends on whether or not you want to make this new lifestyle permanent. For me, what you describe would be much too extreme and I would constantly look forward to being off of those dietary restrictions. But that's me, you have your own preferences so you have to decide for yourself.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    That's why I like the Paleo style eating. For me at least, it's sustainable and not nearly as restrictive as people think. Even the Paleo experts say that eating 80% Paleo will get you 90% of the results that someone 100% Paleo gets.

    Yeah, I miss eating certain things and to be honest, if I get a super craving for something like pizza, I'll just eat some pizza. A couple slices isn't the end of the world. The key is to not give in to those cravings often and to make sure that you go back to eating properly immediately after. Unless a person is raised eating super clean, for most of us it's difficult to maintain a 100% clean way of living. A "cheat" now and then can often times be all it takes to keep us on track. But on the other hand, for some people a cheat is all it takes to derail them and send them back down the wrong path. I guess you just have to decide what kind of person you are and eat accordingly.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  10. #10
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    This is very much a lifestyle change. I don't intend to count every calorie after I reach my goal but if my pants get tight I will get back on board. Once I hit my goal weight it will be time to add muscle and my diet will change again. Even just sticking to real food will make for a better me.
    I looked more at paleo. Looks pretty straight forward and I am having a hard time keeping my protien level up. Might tweek my shopping list a bit.
    Thanks for everyones input. Did my 40min again today. I am truly enjoying the riding.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Yeah, sounds like if you increase the protein some but more or less maintain the way you are eating, you'll be on the right path. Even add in a protein shake once a day would be a quick and easy way to get a good dose of protein. Personally, I shoot for 75-100g a day. I do this with a combo of meat/fish, eggs, and protein powder. Then whatever I get from the plant based food I eat is just bonus. Like stated, diets fail. New eating habits have to be formed in order to be successful long term. Diets are ok for trimming down for a beach vacation or because you are a competitive bodybuilder or need to squeeze into a tux/dress for a special occasion, but for those of us that are doing it for health reasons...diets are not the answer. Sounds like you're on your way to success, just keep it up and when that weight starts melting off and the riding gets easier/more fun, you'll be even more motivated.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DeeZee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,019
    Great advice so far! One thing I would add is working in some weight lifting. Building more muscle will burn more fat…also make you ride stronger.

    About a year ago I started lifting weights again and especially leg work. Single leg squats etc…. took my riding to a whole new level.

  13. #13
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    I was considering some upper body lifing. Not sure how recovery days would affect my riding?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Might effect it for a while/few weeks
    I would change up the riding some to avoid plateauing. You're still burning calories, but not improving condition as much after a while. Some harder, some longer
    Body weight exercises are best/most effective until it's no longer enough. And it's a good idea because you'll burn calories while doing it, while recovering from it, and muscle speeds your metab, even at rest.
    If you're loosing 2-3 lbs a week you're doing great. Don't make anymore improvements until your progress slows. Leave yourself plenty of wiggle room for improvements, and it also plays into that lifestyle thing wisely mentioned above.
    Another thing that is effective for speeding metab and keeping you adequately fueled for exercise is to split your days rations into more meals per day.
    Some weeks you lose more then other even when everything is the same, just the way it is. Don't live by the scale, better by how your clothes fit and your energy level. Muscle weights more than fat and the scale knows not.
    Good for you and good luck
    Round and round we go

  15. #15
    Epic eater
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Terranaut View Post
    I was considering some upper body lifing. Not sure how recovery days would affect my riding?
    BTW sounds like your plan is going great, nice job!

    Recovery days are actually where you get stronger.

    Think of the rides (or workouts) as you telling your muscles they need to get stronger (which is why most weight lifting has you use a muscle till it fails, to make that 'you must adapt' message to your muscle loud and clear). The recovery time (hours or days) is your muscles actually getting stronger (repairing the damage you did and then adding strength so they won't damage as easily next time). How long of recovery depends on how much muscle damage you did, and the muscles will tell you if they aren't ready for more (by being OMG sore).

    So its a cycle of beat up muscles, let them heal, beat them up, let them heal...rinse repeat..

    One thing that numerous vegan athletes have said is they recover much faster eating vegan than what they were eating before. My completely biased opinion is that is because meat and dairy are shown to cause inflammation in the body, but training hard causes inflammation too (natural healing of all those muscle tears), so my guess is inflammation overload.

    If you can ride that hard day after day then your doing just fine, keep it up.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    awesome analogy ^
    Round and round we go

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DeeZee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,019
    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Might effect it for a while/few weeks
    I would change up the riding some to avoid plateauing. You're still burning calories, but not improving condition as much after a while. Some harder, some longer
    Body weight exercises are best/most effective until it's no longer enough. And it's a good idea because you'll burn calories while doing it, while recovering from it, and muscle speeds your metab, even at rest.
    If you're loosing 2-3 lbs a week you're doing great. Don't make anymore improvements until your progress slows. Leave yourself plenty of wiggle room for improvements, and it also plays into that lifestyle thing wisely mentioned above.
    Another thing that is effective for speeding metab and keeping you adequately fueled for exercise is to split your days rations into more meals per day.
    Some weeks you lose more then other even when everything is the same, just the way it is. Don't live by the scale, better by how your clothes fit and your energy level. Muscle weights more than fat and the scale knows not.
    Good for you and good luck
    "Body weight exercises are best/most effective until it's no longer enough. And it's a good idea because you'll burn calories while doing it, while recovering from it, and muscle speeds your metab, even at rest."

    Exactly....I dropped from 235 to 185 by eating right and lifting weights.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrozCountry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,166
    Quote Originally Posted by Terranaut View Post
    I hit it like a race every single time and go flat out to try to beat yesterday's time.
    If you go balls out every time a few times a week, you will hurt yourself at some point. Then off the bike and weight will start creeping up again.

    Go hard on the uphill, that's where you burn most of the calories in the ride. Keep it safe on the downhill. Instead of taking time of your entire ride, use an app like strava that breaks your ride to segments. You can see your time progression on the uphill sections alone, which is what you really want. You don't loose a lot of weight by going a few seconds faster downhill. Timing your entire ride forces you to bomb downhill to keep your time, which is not correlated with your training goals.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bigb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    336
    You're riding too much. Take some days off and go for longer rides in different places with different people. I'm vegan and never count calories. It's one of the benefits of a plant diet if done right, I believe Oreos are vegan, as well as, most beer. Skip the processed foods and soft drinks. Raw vegan is hardcore in the long term. Regular vegan plus a cheat day once in a while is much more successful long term. Protein on no raw shouldn't be an issue.

  20. #20
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Terranaut
    I ride 30-45 minutes a day, everyday. I have a great trail that isabout 10km long with a 5 km road drive back. I drive this same circuit everytime and time myself. I hit it like a race every single time and go flat out to try to beat yesterday's time. My best is 14.8km in 39 minutes. My trail has a huge hill. 99% of people walk up but my last 2 times out I have conquered it.
    it's more about getting your heartrate into the correct zone than just going out and "hitting it". you will realize more weight loss if you increase the time slightly as well to 50-70 minutes of aerobic exercise in the correct zone.

    something else to remember is that the body becomes adept very quickly to repetitive motions/exercise. this is why most people adopting an exercise program will see an initial drop followed by an almost immediate plateau with little to no improvement. interval training will help to drop excess weight, improve cardiac conditioning, and increase endurance. so incorporating HR zone and interval training will exponentially increase both your efforts and results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terranaut
    I am doing a "Not raw vegan" diet. I have been counting calories and keep it under 2000/day but eating all fruit and veggies. I eat at least half of my veggies raw and steam the rest. I call this "Not raw vegan" because I also eat 1 boneless skinless chicken breast at dinner and 2 eggs at breakfast.
    well, since you asked for input i'd point out that's not any kind of vegan diet because it includes eggs and meat. a vegan diet is one that is free of all animal flesh (meat/fish/poultry), animal secretions (dairy), embryos (eggs), and by products (isolated whey protein, etc.).

    that being said, it sounds like you've made a drastic change in diet which for most americans is a good thing. however, if your diet is primarily vegan there is no need to count calories. a varied vegan diet will result in all of the carbs, protein, amino acids, etc. that your body needs to run and rebuild/repair itself. and there are plenty of good supplements like spiru-tein and other things if you're concerned about it while educating yourself on a proper diet. there are also several good books i could recommend as well if you're interested.

    i'm not saying you are wrong to eat meat/dairy/eggs but i'd suggest drastically limiting them. instead of having two eggs every morning perhaps have them once a week. a tofu/veggie scramble looks very much like scrambled eggs in both color and texture, has WAY more usable protein, and lacks the detrimental consequences eggs and animal-based protein have on the body.

    instead of having meat every day at dinner limit this intake to 3x/weekly. this way not only can you afford to eat types of meat that are much, much leaner but again you're not constantly bombarding your body with meat and the accompanying detrimental impact.

    the most important thing is not to "go on a diet" but rather to make a "lifestyle change" by adopting a diet (i.e. way of eating) that you will stick with long term. simple changes in diet such as a drastic reduction in meat/dairy will greatly reduce the risk of developing a lifestyle disease like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.

    just keep with it, don't let the scale dictate your success/failure, and keep your eye on the prize. it's common to see huge weight loss at first, then a "stall", then much smaller changes over time. in years of working with people as both a nurse and a lifestyle coach i can tell you that the more meat/dairy is taken out of the equation to fast the results and benefits seem to come.

    make diet/activity changes you can and WILL live with and stick to. have realistic expectations that this is a life-long lifestyle modification rather than a short term "diet". have realistic expectations that just because you may not be seeing drastic number changes on the scale that there is, in fact, great benefit being reaped from your change. weight loss you can see on the inside, but the benefit to your cardiovascular system such as reduction of plaque and softening of the arteries you cannot.

    good on ya for making the change. not only are you adding years to your life, but life to your years.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  21. #21
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigb2000 View Post
    I'm vegan and never count calories. It's one of the benefits of a plant diet if done right, I believe Oreos are vegan, as well as, most beer. Skip the processed foods and soft drinks. Raw vegan is hardcore in the long term. Regular vegan plus a cheat day once in a while is much more successful long term. Protein on no raw shouldn't be an issue.
    same here. i don't count calories/fat/protein/carbs either, and i eat a LOT. adequate carbs/protein for an athlete on a proper vegan diet isn't an issue at all. as you mentioned, oreos and most beers are vegan but that doesn't mean they're therefore intrinsically good for the body. a varied vegan diet will result in more than adequate and balanced nutrition without the need to count servings or calories. you can literally eat all you want and get the right kind of carbs your body runs on and protein it needs for recovery.

    as another poster mentioned both meat and dairy are irritants to the body. that doesn't mean that one can't see results with protein from animal-based sources, but it does mean that it further stresses the body and will make it more susceptible to illness. meat/dairy cause the body to become more acidic than alkaline which is not a good thing. diseases (especially cancer) thrive in an acidic environment. dairy intake also leads to reduced bone density and weak teeth and can result in insulin dependent diabetes, as well as coronary damage due to the cholesterol. so USE SPARINGLY if at all.

    other areas of huge empty calories in a vegan diet are white rice, processed sugars, and enriched flours. whether vegan or not these should be avoided as they do the body absolutely no good. brown rice and unprocessed whole grains are the way to go. basically, if it's processed/packaged/boxed it should pretty much be avoided.

    in the end, though, it's a diet/lifestyle change rather than a short-term diet that will result in the best overall health and fitness for a lifetime. benefits are loss of extra weight without even having to try, more vitality, more endurance, higher libido, and shorter recovery times.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    a tofu/veggie scramble looks very much like scrambled eggs in both color and texture, has WAY more usable protein,
    Pretty sure eggs are considered to be one of if not the most complete and bioavailable source of protein.

    I also find it funny that vegans are often so anti-animal product but go to great lengths to produce products that mimic meat and animal foods.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Yeah, sounds like if you increase the protein some but more or less maintain the way you are eating, you'll be on the right path. Even add in a protein shake once a day would be a quick and easy way to get a good dose of protein. Personally, I shoot for 75-100g a day. I do this with a combo of meat/fish, eggs, and protein powder. Then whatever I get from the plant based food I eat is just bonus. Like stated, diets fail. New eating habits have to be formed in order to be successful long term. Diets are ok for trimming down for a beach vacation or because you are a competitive bodybuilder or need to squeeze into a tux/dress for a special occasion, but for those of us that are doing it for health reasons...diets are not the answer. Sounds like you're on your way to success, just keep it up and when that weight starts melting off and the riding gets easier/more fun, you'll be even more motivated.
    Once again great, well intended and informed, practical advice from Nubster.
    Round and round we go

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Pretty sure eggs are considered to be one of if not the most complete and bioavailable source of protein.

    I also find it funny that vegans are often so anti-animal product but go to great lengths to produce products that mimic meat and animal foods.
    yup, you're right
    eggs - AskMen

    yup, right again
    Healthy Protein Food Sources - WebMD: Eggs, Milk, Cheese, Pork, and More
    Round and round we go

  25. #25
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    I really appreciate the effort you guys are making to give me great information. So I took the weekend off of riding. Tonight when I go out I am going to go for longer. I am adding 2 protien shakes a day, cutting my eggs to 1 and going to eat fish every other day at supper. I weighed myself last night and am down to 220lbs. My stomach fat feels seperate fron the rest of me, almost loose if you know what I mean. I am going to get a heart rate monitor and ride every other day for longer periods. On days off from riding my oldest son and I are going to hit the gym for an upper body workout. Hopefully this change now will keep me from plateauing and keep the fat coming off. This is a genuine lifestyle change for me.
    Thanks for your support.

  26. #26
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    a tofu/veggie scramble looks very much like scrambled eggs in both color and texture, has WAY more usable protein,
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Pretty sure eggs are considered to be one of if not the most complete and bioavailable source of protein.
    2 servings tofu = 20g protein.
    2 servings eggs = 12g protein.

    pretty sure 20>12. arguably "WAY more". some might even go so far as to say almost DOUBLE.

    here are some other plant based complete protein sources that trump eggs in grams protein per serving:

    quinoa = 8g
    hempseed = 10g
    mycoprotein = 13g
    rice and beans = 7g
    ezekiel bread = 8g
    seitan = 21g

    also noticed you cut the sentence in half leaving this out... "and lacks the detrimental consequences eggs and animal-based protein have on the body."

    even if eggs did contain more grams of complete protein than tofu, tofu has a higher protein to calorie ratio than eggs. along with less fat and zero animal-based cholesterol. the latter is especially important since animal fats/cholesterol are extremely damaging to the cardiovascular system while plant based proteins are not - even in insanely high amounts.

    however, in a sense it's all moot since it's not necessary to consume complete proteins in a single meal. a varied plant based diet will provide all the amino acids necessary and the body will do the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster
    I also find it funny that vegans are often so anti-animal product but go to great lengths to produce products that mimic meat and animal foods.
    personally i'm "pro-health" rather than "anti-meat", and this is why i chose and promote a primarily plant based diet.

    while i can't speak for all who've chosen this path most seem to do so for heath/ethics reasons rather than merely disliking the taste of meat, so it doesn't seem surprising in the least that there's a market for meatless alternatives to animal carcases/secretions/eggs.

    for one thing, they are a good transition food for those making a change to a more plant-based diet - making it easier to substitute a more healthy option to meat in a familiar form. for another, many animal based products taste good - so what's the problem enjoying something with a similar taste/texture without the health penalties associated with the consumption of animals and their byproducts? for yet another, for many it's a nice option at picnics/bbqs/thanksgiving/etc to have a non-meat alternative similar to what other are consuming.

    so all things considered it doesn't seem that odd that there's a market/desire for more heart/health friendly alternatives to meat/dairy products. even less difficult to understand for a life-long carnivore seeking to make some healthy lifestyle modifications.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12

  28. #28
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Terranaut View Post
    I really appreciate the effort you guys are making to give me great information. So I took the weekend off of riding. Tonight when I go out I am going to go for longer. I am adding 2 protien shakes a day, cutting my eggs to 1 and going to eat fish every other day at supper. I weighed myself last night and am down to 220lbs. My stomach fat feels seperate fron the rest of me, almost loose if you know what I mean. I am going to get a heart rate monitor and ride every other day for longer periods. On days off from riding my oldest son and I are going to hit the gym for an upper body workout. Hopefully this change now will keep me from plateauing and keep the fat coming off. This is a genuine lifestyle change for me.
    Thanks for your support.
    sounds like a good plan! you have realistic goals and expectations along with a plan to meet them. it always thrills me to see someone taking charge of their health and making some good, solid lifestyle changes. glad to help in any way possible.

    just to clarify, the purpose of going longer is to get your heart into the proper zone and keep it there for 35-45 minutes. this allows for some warm-up and cool-down time. incorporating weight training and intervals will help prevent your body from "getting used" to the exercise, in addition to the fact that muscle burns more energy than fat. not to mention that interval training is excellent for endurance as well. as you become more fit you can add more time as it will not only benefit but you'll be in shape and can actually genuinely enjoy more time on the bike at a strenuous level.

    next, good plan on the diet mod too. while animal based diets are very hard on the cardiovascular system (hardening/plaque/occlusion) the good news is this damage can almost always be reversed. i've had patients that have seen remarkable change simply by adopting a plant-based diet, including some that have avoided open heart surgery by reversing occlusion! countless others that have reversed hyperlipidemia and ended their dependence on the associated meds as well. same with many insulin dependent diabetics. as hippocrates said, "let the food be thy medicine, and medicine be thy food".

    don't get discouraged when you plateau, because it WILL happen. most people will generally see a very rapid fat loss in the first days and weeks of initiation of an exercise program and lifestyle change (as you seem to be with a "loose" stomach), but it will taper off and become more slow and steady. this is normal. the important thing is to eat a LOT, otherwise the body will think it's enduring a famine and will actually hoard fat. the trick is to consume a large amount of plant based foods, whether raw or not, as this keeps the calorie to fat ratio very low and give the body plenty of fuel to run on and repair itself with as it is shedding the fat. oh, and when preparing your fish/eggs try to steam/poach rather than fry as this keeps the calories/fat low and prevents the formation of many carcinogens that result from frying.

    again, good on you for making some positive health/lifestyle changes!

    you're an inspiration, please keep us posted.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Protein shakes can vary and be loaded with unwanted calories and sugars. I would stick with an all natural whey protein that tastes good. I like this one Naturally Flavored 100% Whey Gold Standard - $30.89 | Optimum Nutrition: True Strength but there's many others. Don't concern yourself with whey isolate vs concentrate vs hydrolysate, chose one based on taste and stats. Also think 2 protein shakes a day is too much and would rather get it from natural food sources. You have a window of about an hour after exercise to feed your muscles and help with recovery in a big way, so that would be the best time for that fast absorbing protein shake. The next best time would be when you wake. Again if you're trying to trim down and like to eat 2 shakes a day may be too much. Oh, and for most that gassy bloated feeling that protein shakes can give you will pass in a couple of weeks.
    Round and round we go

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    2 servings tofu = 20g protein.
    2 servings eggs = 12g protein.

    pretty sure 20>12. arguably "WAY more". some might even go so far as to say almost DOUBLE.

    here are some other plant based complete protein sources that trump eggs in grams protein per serving:
    Perhaps if you'd read a little closer you'll notice I said nothing about eggs have MORE protein. I stated that they were one of if not the most complete and bio-available protein sources.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Yup, ^ and the thread was the op's, not about disease prevention, nor a smart assed math lesson. But way to go with following me into yet another thread and turning it to sh!t with your obvious cognitive dissonance.
    Round and round we go

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Protein shakes can vary and be loaded with unwanted calories and sugars. I would stick with an all natural whey protein that tastes good. I like this one Naturally Flavored 100% Whey Gold Standard - $30.89 | Optimum Nutrition: True Strength but there's many others. Don't concern yourself with whey isolate vs concentrate vs hydrolysate, chose one based on taste and stats. Also think 2 protein shakes a day is too much and would rather get it from natural food sources. You have a window of about an hour after exercise to feed your muscles and help with recovery in a big way, so that would be the best time for that fast absorbing protein shake. The next best time would be when you wake. Again if you're trying to trim down and like to eat 2 shakes a day may be too much. Oh, and for most that gassy bloated feeling that protein shakes can give you will pass in a couple of weeks.
    I try to avoid too much whey as well but sometimes because of time or just not feeling like eating...it's a good way to squeeze in that extra protein if the rest of your day has been a little low. There are a lot of days that I eat mostly fruit just because I'm in the mood so I may have a couple smoothies with some whey to satisfy my protein needs. It's also excellent for post ride. I treat most of my rides as a workout in that I try to always have a protein shake within 30 minutes of finishing the ride.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I try to avoid too much whey as well but sometimes because of time or just not feeling like eating...it's a good way to squeeze in that extra protein if the rest of your day has been a little low. There are a lot of days that I eat mostly fruit just because I'm in the mood so I may have a couple smoothies with some whey to satisfy my protein needs. It's also excellent for post ride. I treat most of my rides as a workout in that I try to always have a protein shake within 30 minutes of finishing the ride.
    A smart man ^ who has learned. I look at eating pretty clean and regular as a lifestyle, but look at any exercise efforts longer then 30 minutes as a possible advancement so I try to have a protein shake within an hour to realize it's full potential also. It's amazing how diet and timing of it can propel your progress, or not.
    Round and round we go

  34. #34
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Perhaps if you'd read a little closer you'll notice I said nothing about eggs have MORE protein. I stated that they were one of if not the most complete and bio-available protein sources.
    in other words, when you quoted and replied to my statement that soy has way more protein than eggs you're saying your reply had nothing whatsoever to do with it? c'mon, man... that's silly talk. the implication was clearly there that eggs were a superior protein source to soy.

    perhaps you noticed i provided many other complete and bio-available protein sources that lack "the detrimental consequences eggs and animal-based protein have on the body". absolutely no argument that eggs certainly are "a" complete protein source but they can hardly be in the running for "the most" when there are options that provide many more grams of complete protein per serving (some 2x) without the associated deficits of animal protein. and at a much higher ratio of protein to calories to boot.

    the OP made mention of moving to a more plant-based diet for heath reasons and i'm simply providing information in this vein. it's just about sharing info, so please don't get your drawers all twisted up and make it a personal war like sniffles did and always does. there's no reason to take my reply as a personal attack, it was just alternative/supplemental data to info we had both shared.

    it's a discussion forum. we're discussing. be cool, bro. there's no need to follow meat's example and be a whiny, sniveling crybaby about it.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    In my posts you can not find one single statement where I am getting my drawers twisted or making it a personal war. If you can, please show me where anything I said would indicate that.

    Like you said, this is a discussion forum and I am discussing protein sources. You are the one that seemed to confuse more protein with better protein. More isn't always better. If you'd like, in the name of discussion, please post some links that show some science proving that your plant based proteins are better than eggs in the quality of protein and the bio-availability. Not the amount, that's not what I'm talking about, but the quality.

    Seems like only one of us is calling names and being a baby...but it's certainly not me.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  36. #36
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    If you guys can keep this to a discussion and not an argument I am all for it. I like to learn as much as possible. Different views and discussing them with good material to back up claims makes me more informed.
    I am aware of getting a good dose of protien after working out. Thanks.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    the OP made mention of moving to a more plant-based diet for heath reasons and i'm simply providing information in this vein. it's just about sharing info, so please don't get your drawers all twisted up and make it a personal war like sniffles did and always does. there's no reason to take my reply as a personal attack, it was just alternative/supplemental data to info we had both shared.
    He made mention of eating better by eating a quasi vegan/raw type diet for weight-loss but he is also looking into the option of a Paleo style diet. So the way I see it, he isn't set on making his diet plant based. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I am very plant based in my eating habits but I don't exclude meat or eggs or dairy 100%. I lost 80+ pounds and my blood work was perfect after a year of eating in such a manner. Proof as far as I'm concerned is in the non-vegan pudding.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  38. #38
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    as for the differences in protein powders (i.e. concentrate, isolate, and hydrolysate) the differences lie in the % of protein per serving and the amount of carbs per serving. concentrate generally contains about %70 protein and retains all the carbs. isolate is the isolation of the protein itself and is the most pure, with everything else (including carbs) being removed. hydrolysate is when the protein is broken down for faster absorption, or "predigested". so there are very distinct differences between the variants to consider when selecting a protein supplement.

    as far as overdoing it there can be a problem with too much animal based protein, but not too much plant based. a continued excess of animal based protein can be hard on the body. keep in mind too that most people have some degree of lactose intolerance. this can manifest itself in many ways such as bloating, cramping, gas, loose stools, and even mimicking allergies.

    one of the biggest differences between whey and soy protein is whey is available to the body very fast but for a short time, whereas soy protein is available much longer. in other words, whey provides a burst while soy provides a more deliberate and prolonged release of protein.

    soy, like whey, scores a 1.0 on the PDCAAS which is a perfect score. because soy is a complete protein it will also enhance the nutritional value of other foods. there are a lot of myths surrounding soy protein but it is a well researched and proven source of complete protein, even offering benefits not found with whey.

    a few include:

    • soy protein reduces cholesterol thereby lowering the likelihood of coronary disease.
    • soy protein will lower LDL whereas animal based proteins will more likely increase it.
    • isoflavones (bioactive compounds found in soy protein) have been found to reduce the risk of many types of cancer as well as osteoporosis. animal based proteins have been shown to increase the risk. in fact, there's a direct correlation between dairy consumption and increased risk of osteoporosis, but that's another topic altogether.
    • these isoflavones also have an antioxidant effect which decreases recovery time along with inflammation and soreness post-exertion.


    milk protein has also been irrefutably linked to both juvenile and adult onset insulin dependent diabetes. this is because the milk protein is seen as an antigen by the bodies of many. in turn the body produces antibodies which destroy these proteins. however, and especially with casein protein, the body's antibodies will often then turn, attack, and destroy the beta cells in the islet of langerhans which produce insulin in the pancreas. once these cells are destroyed they are gone forever.

    just more info so you can make an informed choice when selecting a protein supplement.

    again, kudos to you for making such an important and awesome life evaluation and change.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  39. #39
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    You are the one that seemed to confuse more protein with better protein. More isn't always better.
    "more is better" is not the gist of my overall position. as was clearly pointed out there are other factors at play as well.

    if one is seeking to ingest "X" grams of protein then it is reasonable to suggest that one source may be better than another for meeting this need, and it may come down to grams per serving combined with other attributes. for example, if one can get almost twice the protein in one source as from another and WITHOUT the added fats and calories it could arguably be considered a better source. it's further arguable that the source with fewer grams protein per serving but also WITHOUT the added fats and calories could arguably be considered a better protein source.

    soy has many benefits that animal based proteins (eggs) cannot offer, such as:

    • soy protein reduces cholesterol thereby lowering the likelihood of coronary disease.
    • soy protein will lower LDL whereas animal based proteins will more likely increase it.
    • isoflavones (bioactive compounds found in soy protein) have been found to reduce the risk of many types of cancer as well as osteoporosis. animal based proteins have been shown to increase the risk. in fact, there's a direct correlation between dairy consumption and increased risk of osteoporosis, but that's another topic altogether.
    • these isoflavones also have an antioxidant effect which decreases recovery time along with inflammation and soreness post-exertion.


    thus, it is again arguable that a protein source offering these benefits (soy) is superior to a protein source (eggs) which does not. the fact that the this protein source also happens to offer more protein per serving is simply icing on the cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster
    Seems like only one of us is calling names and being a baby...but it's certainly not me.
    indeed. but don't worry about meat's little outburst, he does that all the time.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    There's a lot to be said about soy being an unhealthy option too.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  41. #41
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    There's a lot to be said about soy being an unhealthy option too.
    the most common being "myth" and "misinformation".
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Well, vegans think meat eaters are the devil and will be dead by 50. Meat eaters think vegans are malnourished self absorbed douchebags that spread falsities in order to further their agenda.

    Fact is, there's probably no actual unbiased information out there on diet/food. I can find more info on soy being bad including "research" and articles by medical experts/doctors than I'd ever care to read. I'm sure the same can be said about eggs or any other food out there. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else eats. I choose my diet based on what works for me and that IS all that matters.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  43. #43
    Finally!
    Reputation: Terranaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    778
    Nubster hit it on the head. I want to find out what options work best for me and will try what looks right for me and adjust as needed. I love a good discussion. I may go to more meat .I may try no meat at all. not 100% sure yet but losing meat for the most part hasn't caused me any issues thus far.

  44. #44
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Well, vegans think meat eaters are the devil and will be dead by 50. Meat eaters think vegans are malnourished self absorbed douchebags that spread falsities in order to further their agenda.

    Fact is, there's probably no actual unbiased information out there on diet/food. I can find more info on soy being bad including "research" and articles by medical experts/doctors than I'd ever care to read. I'm sure the same can be said about eggs or any other food out there. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else eats. I choose my diet based on what works for me and that IS all that matters.
    wow. that escalated quickly. don't look now, but it sure looks like you're getting your diapers twisted. that you have so overtly and hostilely taken this discussion as a personal affront certainly seems to validate my previous post. since you're now resorting to ad homs, red herrings, and straw men it would stand to reason that any kind of productive exchange of information on your behalf has concluded.

    be that as it may, the fact is that there is a plethora of actual unbiased information out there on diet/food.

    like you, it doesn't matter to me what anyone else eats - but that's a red herring because that's not what we're discussing nor have i stated otherwise. in fact, i even stated point blank, "i'm not saying you are wrong to eat meat/dairy/eggs but i'd suggest drastically limiting them" to be sure that the data being shared was in no way misconstrued as a personal indictment. nor have either you or the OP been castigated, demeaned, or ridiculed for your food choices so your defensive posture is certainly unwarranted.

    even when people who are paying me to help them with a lifestyle change refuse to consider information or follow suggestions i don't denigrate them for doing so. it's their money. their health. their choice. freedom to live one's life as they see fit is the most basic of freedoms, provided it causes no one else harm.

    do i have an agenda to promote a more plant-based diet with sparing use of animal flesh/byproducts? certainly. i'm very up front about it and don't hide it. know why i have such an agenda? i work in health care and i've seen first hand the detrimental effects of lifestyle choices.

    i've worked in post CABG (coronary artery bypass graft) units and seen relatively young people with life threatening occlusions due almost entirely to what they've put in their mouths. i've spent a lot of time in coronary cath labs and have witnessed in real time the damage that a diet rich in animal flesh/byproducts has caused. i've worked in the e.r. and seen relatively young people present with heart attacks and strokes either losing their lives or suffering permanent damage due to what they've put in their mouths. i've seen the damage that carrying extra weight has caused on a multi-systemic level, and helped people rehab from disease they brought upon themselves via their fork. i've listened to countless people in these situations lament a lifetime of pleasing their taste buds when it comes time to "pay the check". i've helped countless people reverse lifestyle illnesses like CAD, diabetes, and hyperlipidemia without drugs and surgery merely by changing what goes into their mouth.

    my agenda is to provide relevant, accurate information on the topic so people can make up their own minds. that's why i discuss it here and on other forums and will continue to do so. that's why i've given scores of seminars and lectures on health, nutrition, and disease prevention. that's why i'm in the healthcare profession. my goal is not to convert people to "the plant side" but to provide the information so they can make an informed choice and to help them reach their goals, whether it's full vegan, laco-ovo, or primarily plant based with varying amounts of animal derived foods.

    so thanks for the discussion, it's unfortunate you've elected to end it in this manner but it's a paradigm i've seen frequently over the years in this and other areas. for the record, i say eat what you want. own it. be proud of it. i wholeheartedly defend your right to stuff whatever you wish into your mouth and to hold whatever opinion you wish irrespective of our agreement in the matters - though i will point out that our mere opinions were not the topic of discussion.

    as hippocrates said, "there are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance."

    and btw, nubster, a big congrats on dumping 80 lbs., that's quite an achievement! kudos to you for taking charge of your life and health and making a change. best of luck as you whittle away the remaining 40-50, i wish you all the best.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    5,438
    Like I said, plenty of "science" to support either side. Some people act simply on ethics, some on science, some because they don't know any better. Take the info you find, apply it to your life, and figure out what works best. I said it once already, I've lost a lot of weight and have perfect blood work eating meat (Paleo). Not a meat based diet like most SAD folks, but I do include it.
    Cannondale F29 carbon
    Jamis Renegade Elite
    Kona Big Unit SS/full rigid
    Kona Private Jake SSCX (build in progress)

  46. #46
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I said it once already, I've lost a lot of weight and have perfect blood work eating meat (Paleo). Not a meat based diet like most SAD folks, but I do include it.
    so if, by your own admission, your diet isn't meat based it would stand to reason it's plant based. correct? i believe you said "tons of vegetables and probably too much fruit" combined with cutting way back on meat and dairy. now where have i heard that before?

    in other words, despite the fact we're pretty much in agreement on limiting animal flesh/byproducts and adopting a plant based diet you've gone to a great deal of effort to argue against a lifestyle choice you support, promote, live by, and have lost nearly 100lbs by following. yep... makes total sense.

    congrats again on your weight loss. keep up the good work!
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bigb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    336
    The great thing about biking is that the better you become, the better you'll want to be at it.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12
    monogod,
    I'm curious as to what other bad habits those young people had that you referred to other than putting animal flesh/byproducts in their mouths?

    Young active people that don't overindulge do not end up in the hospital because they put meat and eggs their mouth.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Quote Originally Posted by rmscustom View Post
    monogod,
    I'm curious as to what other bad habits those young people had that you referred to other than putting animal flesh/byproducts in their mouths?

    Young active people that don't overindulge do not end up in the hospital because they put meat and eggs their mouth.
    I see you're new here, let me try to explain
    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...orums.mtbr.com
    Welcome to the site
    Round and round we go

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: theMeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,445
    Plateauing with fitness gains, taking time off and changing it up has already been brought up and is true for everyone across the board eventually. When diet plateaus has not been brought up much yet so some ideas to consider. Leaving yourself wiggle room to make improvements is a good idea if you're realizing progress. Another great trick many find useful is to fast for 1 day every month or 2. I can't sleep on an empty stomach so for me after dinner 1 night I won't eat anything till dinner the next day. Make sure to drink plenty/extra water, and try to plan it on an off from exercise day. We all give our body rest time from exercise to recoup, giving your digestive system a break is also a good idea. It also gets your body wondering what's coming next so this is especially useful when plateauing, or right before you're making more changes to your diet.
    Round and round we go

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •