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  1. #51
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    Great plan. I am going to change my diet slightly. I am going to see if I can go all veggie for a few weeks but this weekend coming we have a wedding so Monday will have to be day one. I am actually going to eat something crappy thursday and friday so I don't spend the reception on the toilet from the food change.(I hope) I tried grilling extra firm tofu and it was actually quite good.I am hoping I can get enough protien with tofu and whey. So all fruit and veggie for July, then reevaluate and tweak again. The weather has gone to crap here the last few days and it has been storming way to hard to ride. I am going for a rain run (road) tonight as long as there is no gale force wind again.
    The tips are great guys. Thank you all. Keep it coming.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmscustom View Post
    monogod,
    I'm curious as to what other bad habits those young people had that you referred to other than putting animal flesh/byproducts in their mouths?

    Young active people that don't overindulge do not end up in the hospital because they put meat and eggs their mouth.
    it's a given that the more bad habits one has the more likely they are to enter the health care system at an earlier age. however, i was not referring to that end of the spectrum.

    first of all, define "overindulge". for some it may be meat/dairy >3x weekly. for some 3x in a meal is not overindulgence.

    query: is it possible that "what they've put in their mouths" may encompass more than merely meat and eggs?

    the reason that i ask is that you seem to be taking out of context statements used to qualify my impetus for shamelessly promoting "a more plant-based diet with sparing use of animal flesh/byproducts". rather than taking it as clearly presented it seems you've perhaps misconstrued it as shrieking a warning that anyone who eats an egg will drop dead tomorrow.

    some might even argue that a person with "a more plant-based diet who sparingly uses animal flesh/byproducts" sounds remarkably similar to someone that doesn't overindulge, doesn't it? food for thought, so to speak.

    giving you the benefit of the doubt that these are genuine questions that stem from either curiosity, a desire to discuss an area of interest to you, or merely an honest misunderstanding rather than a seemingly blatant attempt at trolling i'll take the time to add a couple more things.

    one is that we are starting to see more and more teens and even pre-teens present with atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease, and carotid artery disease. cath lab patients are getting younger and younger. not just fat, doughy, sedentary couch blobs mind you - but active people and even athletes too. when this occurs it is almost always directly related to diet, or what they "put in their mouths". in these cases it is due almost solely to the standard american diet (SAD) including regular intake of fried foods, packaged and heavily processed/salted foods, sodas (diet and regular), and so forth.

    juvenile and adult onset diabetes have also risen in the last couple of decades, again traceable almost entirely to what people put in their mouths. there are are couple main causative factors, one is an auto-immune response to dairy and another is simply overworking the pancreas.

    cancer rates are through the roof to the point where it has become an almost accepted part of life for the average american. this should not be so. epidemiologic studies show time and again that the higher plant based content a culture's diet has the lower the correlating instances of lifestyle disease are. and it is NOT race and/or genetics, for when members of these cultures adopt a more american diet (higher in animal based content) a corollary increase of lifestyle diseases is observed.

    the reason that younger and younger people are falling victim to lifestyle diseases (especially coronary artery disease) is that vascular occlusion is caused almost solely by DIET, or as some might say, "what they've put in their mouths". even though an active lifestyle can prevent excess fat from building up on the outside it still cannot completely deter the damage that is done internally to the cardiovascular system by consistent ingestion of animal fats/protein and other dietary disasters. this is why were are seeing more and more relative young people, including young adults and even teens, in the medical system with the type of advanced cardiovascular disease we once saw only in those of much more advanced age (think late middle age to early old age).
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

  3. #53
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    Would argue that it has more to do with massive increases in sugar, corn, pesticides, preservatives, gmos, processed junk, plastics, pollution, conveniences that make you lazy, etc. All my grandparents lived till their 90's, most of them smoked and all 4 ate whatever they wanted and whatever they had. Meanwhile my father died at 68 and was considered fit and health conscious. My mom is doing alright but with the issues she has so far it's doubtful she'll make 90. While there is some truths mixed up with all the above post's drama/resume/verbal masturbation, no one has it figured out so why even pretend to. First it was cholesterol was bad, then we learned there's good cholesterol. Fat was bad and now we need some. Soy was the greatest thing since slice bread now we're finding all sorts of bad crap about that too, including gmo and pesticides, and on and on. And am I the only one who would rather die from cancer then read that freakin babble? Are we supposed to thank mono for derailing a thread into omg you're going to die from cancer, and insulting everyone who disagrees with him because he pretends to know everything on the internet? Don't know why i took a peek, that's it, back on ignore list
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terranaut View Post
    Great plan. I am going to change my diet slightly. I am going to see if I can go all veggie for a few weeks but this weekend coming we have a wedding so Monday will have to be day one. I am actually going to eat something crappy thursday and friday so I don't spend the reception on the toilet from the food change.(I hope) I tried grilling extra firm tofu and it was actually quite good.I am hoping I can get enough protien with tofu and whey. So all fruit and veggie for July, then reevaluate and tweak again. The weather has gone to crap here the last few days and it has been storming way to hard to ride. I am going for a rain run (road) tonight as long as there is no gale force wind again.
    The tips are great guys. Thank you all. Keep it coming.
    something to keep in mind when moving to a more plant-based diet is that many people often feel poorly for a few days up to a few weeks. this is due to the detoxification process that occurs. for some it's very noticeable for some not so much. some even have allergy-like symptoms with itchy, watery eyes while some may have flu-like symptoms including fever, weakness, muscle aches, and general malaise. a few experience it all! many give up and report that they tried eating better, but it made them feel horrible so they went back to their old diet. however, it's just the process of detox and will pass. thought this would bear mentioning to keep in mind when you reevaluate to tweak.

    getting adequate protein without meat is comically easy, so don't sweat it. especially if you're considering supplements. large animals with plant-based diets like elephants have no problems getting their nutritional needs met without meat and neither will you. keep in mind that in addition to tofu many grains are protein rich as well. the more you know, the easier it will be.

    there are some great tips for cooking with tofu, one being using firm in many dishes. not only does it have more protein per serving but it holds together much better when cooking with it in stir fry and other dishes. if you freeze and thaw it before cooking with it the consistency will change as well. softer tofu is good for eggless salad, soups, and deserts. i can hit you up with a few more tips if you're interested.

    also, there's a great book to check out called "the new becoming vegan". it's an updated edition of a great book that's great for people looking into adopting a more plant-based diet and i recommend it to all my clients/patients whether they are going completely vegan or merely altering their diet to a more plant-based bias. if i were going to recommend only one on the topic of plant-based nutriton, this would be it. well written, informative, and easy to understand.

    here's a few good recipes that have a wide variety of dishes. i'll post up a couple of links to some great cookbooks later.
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    so if, by your own admission, your diet isn't meat based it would stand to reason it's plant based. correct? i believe you said "tons of vegetables and probably too much fruit" combined with cutting way back on meat and dairy. now where have i heard that before?

    in other words, despite the fact we're pretty much in agreement on limiting animal flesh/byproducts and adopting a plant based diet you've gone to a great deal of effort to argue against a lifestyle choice you support, promote, live by, and have lost nearly 100lbs by following. yep... makes total sense.

    congrats again on your weight loss. keep up the good work!
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  6. #56
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    TheMeat pretty much covered it and I'm not embarrassed to admit I'm not equipped, have the time or have enough give a s**t to get into a typing battle with you. Maybe I'm not edumacated enough to get your true intentions in your posts but you come off as just another holier than thou individual trying to push your beliefs with long winded half truths.

    I eat lots of meat, eggs, veggies and fruit. A lot of the meat I kill myself and the rest I know where it comes from, same goes for the eggs. I try to stay away from all the processed crap (including grains) and eat very little dairy. I work a physical job and enjoy physical/active hobbies and so far I haven't landed in the ER because of what I put in my mouth

    Sorry for adding to the derail... I'm out.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmscustom View Post
    TheMeat pretty much covered it and I'm not embarrassed to admit I'm not equipped, have the time or have enough give a s**t to get into a typing battle with you. Maybe I'm not edumacated enough to get your true intentions in your posts but you come off as just another holier than thou individual trying to push your beliefs with long winded half truths.

    I eat lots of meat, eggs, veggies and fruit. A lot of the meat I kill myself and the rest I know where it comes from, same goes for the eggs. I try to stay away from all the processed crap (including grains) and eat very little dairy. I work a physical job and enjoy physical/active hobbies and so far I haven't landed in the ER because of what I put in my mouth

    Sorry for adding to the derail... I'm out.
    Even though I engaged in spirited discussion with monogod, I do agree with him on the point that consumption of meat and dairy should be reduced. IMO, it doesn't need to be eliminated, but basing a meal around a huge chunk of meat 3-5 times a day is problematic. Either small amounts per meal or with one meal per day is a better option. Or better yet reduce it to only 3-4 times per week and the other days eat vegan/vegetarian. If you look at cultures in Asia you'll see that's what they do and those areas that do eat like that have some of the highest life expectancy as well as much, much lower instances of heart disease and cancer. You're certainly doing better still than probably the majority of people out there but I'd still suggest lowering the meat consumption or at least do some research on the subject and make your choices based on that information or of course, you can always completely ignore me or even goes as far as to tell me to pound sand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycle151 View Post
    Friggin' coward. Give me a red chiclet instead of debating like a man. You don't deserve your green blocks.

  8. #58
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    My "lots of meat" comment might be a little misleading... While meat/eggs are usually part of at least 2 out of 3 meals a day for me I try to roughly follow the "deck of cards" rule and surround it with veggies and use fruit and nuts for snacks. I would agree that eating a meat majority diet would not be good.

  9. #59
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    Like I said. I will try the vegan thing for a few weeks and reevaluate based on how I feel and how my excersise progresses. I will be adding meat but how much and how often is yet to be determined. Funny thing here is a few weeks off of having meat being the main dish all the time and I just plain feel better, no...cleaner inside..no...well different in a positve manner that is hard to explain. More awake when I am awake and more sleepy when tired. Actually a noticeable change is the consistency of my saliva in my mouth. Much more fluid and my tongue feels like I power washed it. Mind you I don't expect this is just from meat but from giving up anything with glucose/fructose sweeteners, flour and processed foods.

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  10. #60
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    Good points Nubster, and it's hard to argue that vegans and vegetarians don't have a good track record.
    When compared to an Asian diet thou there's other factors to consider. Like they eat more frequent and a lot more iodine and other nutrients, they eat a lot less processed crap, sugar, foods out of season. Many more don't own a car, most drink small amounts of warm liquids with meals, genetics, etc
    Last edited by theMeat; 06-25-2014 at 11:32 AM.
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  11. #61
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    I watch the amount of soy in my vegan diet. I rarely eat tofu and never soy milk. It's almond milk, beans, sweet potatoes, kale and such for me. Vegan works for me, and others I've helped along the way. Too many personal factors to say that plant based or meat based people live longer. DNA plays a role. I also think protein overload isn't necessary for the average person. To the OP, do your research and try what works for you. It's great that you're concerned with your health.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    When compared to an Asian diet thou there's other factors to consider. Like they eat more frequent and a lot more magnesium and other nutrients, they eat a lot less processed crap, sugar, foods out of season. Many more don't own a car, most drink small amounts of warm liquids with meals, genetics, etc
    not really. asians traditionally did not eat more frequently. just the opposite. a morning meal, work in the fields all day, an evening meal. same with mediterraneans, who also enjoy the health and longevity benefits of a plant-based diet. periods of fasting actually help the body in many ways including metabolism and strengthening the immune system.

    asians also don't really eat more micro-nutrients as compared to any other plant-based diet. the only possible exception are areas that consume higher quantities of seaweed, which is high in iodine. however, adequate amounts of iodine can be enjoyed on a balanced plant-based diet without seaweed as well. personally, i love seaweed and put it in lots of my broth-based soups and stir-fry dishes. and sushi. man, i love that stuff and make it all the time! yum!

    modern asians (especially the more wealthy) in larger cities, however, have adopted a much more western method of eating including processed crap and sugar. they see it as a sign of affluence. same with owning cars. fun fact: in bangkok the only thing they serve at dairy queen are blizzards! a nice thing about asia is the strong buddhist culture, which means tons of vegan eateries with delicious food. stupid cheap. many run by bhikkhus. and in case you're peeking again, meat, i lived in asia for a while and visited many countries while i was there so i'm reporting what i actually saw rather than results from the google machine.

    genetics plays little, if any, role in it in the longevity and reduced rate of lifestyle diseases asians have typically enjoyed. it's due primarily to diet. when asians, mediterraneans, and other cultures with a primarily plant-based diet adopt a more western style of eating guess what happens? yup, they suffer from the same lifestyle diseases at pretty much the same rate as do indigenous westerners. conversely, when westerners adopt a more plant-based diet incidences of lifestyle diseases plummet; and do so in correlation to the percentage of plant-based foods consumed.

    so what we've seen in decades of study is that the diseases follow the diet rather than the genes.
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigb2000 View Post
    Vegan works for me, and others I've helped along the way. Too many personal factors to say that plant based or meat based people live longer. DNA plays a role. I also think protein overload isn't necessary for the average person.
    works for lots of folks. and yes, it's exciting to see it work for others you're helping along the way, isn't it? through the years i've helped and seen many people lose weight, terminate their need for disease management drugs, and completely reverse lifestyle diseases simply by altering what they put in their mouth.

    can't agree with you so much about not being able to definitively say there is no longevity correlation to a plant-based diet though. there have been long term studies of populations and subsets that indicate that vegetarians enjoy an overall longer life span, better quality of life during it, as well as drastically reduced instances of cancer, heart disease, and other lifestyle diseases. empirical evidence of cultural observation routinely demonstrates the same.

    genetics plays a fairly small role. we all either have, or have heard stories of, that person who started smoking when they were a teenager, drank heavily, ate lots of meat and few veggies, and lived to a ripe old age. however, that is the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself. it is precisely these types of people geneticists are studying to find out what prevented them from succumbing to their lifestyle. the truth is that most people eating the standard american diet die prematurely of a lifestyle disease, or live the rest of their life severely incapacitated with a drastically reduced quality of life.

    totally agree with you on the protein myth. it's been pushed by the meat/dairy industry for decades, and it's certainly not like they have an agenda or anything. after all, the food pyramid charts they provided free of charge to schools in the 50's-70's had meat and dairy at the bottom like it was all scientifical and stuff. what a better way to ensure generational product demand than to brainwash potential customers early.
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmscustom View Post
    I would agree that eating a meat majority diet would not be good.
    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat
    it's hard to argue that vegans and vegetarians don't have a good track record.
    um..... don't look now but you guys are agreeing with me. better not let this get out or your memberships to the "he-man mono hater club" might get revoked. well, meat doesn't have to worry since he's not only a member, he's the president and founder!
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    um..... don't look now but you guys are agreeing with me. better not let this get out or your memberships to the "he-man mono hater club" might get revoked. well, meat doesn't have to worry since he's not only a member, he's the president and founder!
    Don't hate you. I'll say again, you can be very informative, funny sometimes, and if you could stop being such a pompous jerk know it all the site would be better for it. Like how did i know you were going to be an expert on Asian eating habits too. How many people are you going to but heads with and claim they're doing it to you? You go from hong kong (very westernized) to rice fields (very rural) to prove me wrong. What about the rest of asia where the traditional diet is yeah, less red meat, but no shortage of eggs, fish, etc, on a daily basis. Where they do in fact eat smaller more often meals, and walk more, drive less. And what do Mediterraneans have to do with that.
    I never said they eat more macro nutrients, only different, but you twisted that around to serve your look at me, i'm so smart, everyone who disagrees is dumb and has their panties in a bunch, drain on the site popularity contest. Our usda has no set recommended daily for iodine, but says we shouldn't have more than 400 iu, while typical asian diet has 2,000. But you're an expert on that too, which is funny since no one is.
    No kidding, if you eat and live like a fat american you'll be fat too? Should I go on?
    While I'm pleasantly surprised that a response from you, directed towards me doesn't include mean spirited name calling and personal attacks, i have little hope you'll see my point or start to take any responsibility in the fact you make alot of unnecessary bickering round here so ? Althou I welcome you proving me wrong on that fact, with some actions. I mean if you could just show enough self control to stop derailing threads every time someone disagrees with you, that'd be a start.
    Round and round we go

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    You go from hong kong (very westernized) to rice fields (very rural). What about the rest of asia where the traditional diet is yeah, less red meat, but no shortage of eggs, fish, etc, on a daily basis. Where they do in fact eat smaller more often meals, and walk more, drive less. And what do Mediterraneans have to do with that.
    I never said they eat more macro nutrients, only different, Our usda has no set recommended daily for iodine, but says we shouldn't have more than 400 iu, while typical asian diet has 2,000. No kidding, if you eat and live like a fat american you'll be fat too? Should I go on?
    whoa.... thought you had me on ignore. guess that man-crush of yours just got the better of you again.

    after stripping the post of all your inferiority complex sniveling butthurt boo-hooing and assorted other personal-problem tripe that has absolutely no bearing on anything diet related (i.e. "derailing the thread with your issues") it shortened it by a whopping 70%! maybe i'll respond to that crap in a pm. interesting that you don't see your blathering off-topic personal mono-hating rants as derailing, but any response to them is. 10...9...8...

    you actually DID say they ate "a lot more nutrients". i quoted it and responded to it. you specifically said more "magnesium" initially but now i see you've now gone back and changed it to iodine. you said concerning the asian diet they "ate a lot more nutrients" and it was a factor to consider IN ADDITION to diet. it's not. it's part OF the diet itself rather than an extraneous component to be considered.

    as mentioned, they eat no more nutrients than any other plant-based diet with the EXCEPTION of iodine in regions where seaweed and other sea vegetables are part of the diet. part of the problem you seem to have in discussions (and not just with me) is not understanding what you're even responding to. seriously, how the hell can you hope to understand what someone else is saying when you don't even know what YOU said? the fact that the context/relevance of mentioning mediterraneans befuddled you is further demonstrative example.

    first you say genetics is an additional factor be considered in addition to asian diet as a reason for their typical longevity and health. when information to the contrary is provided you do a 180 and state just the opposite. so for the record, which is it? do genetics play a major role or not?

    i said nothing about hong kong. ever.

    regarding "traditionally" in regard to the asian diet and frequency of meals - the traditional asian diet is the one which is most healthy. again, your confusion on this point and why things were mentioned illustrates being in over your head. that's not an insult and there's nothing wrong with that other than you rage against correct information being provided, defame the messenger, and scramble to save face rather than seeing it as an opportunity to learn something. moving away from the traditional diet to one where more non plant-based material that is introduced along with increased frequency of meals reduces the effectiveness and brings it more closely in line to western diet content and eating patterns and reduces its efficacy. get it now?

    and no, in less westernized areas of asia they don't eat more frequently or have of a diet rich in eggs, meat, and dairy on a daily basis. they eat to live rather than for a social activity or for fun. they don't have sweet desert garbage for breakfast, but have savory foods instead. with the prominence of buddhism in asia it is a farily common practice not to even eat in the evenings, and the eateries run by bhikkhus typically close early afternoon. guess who you see out and about at night eating? westerners and affluent/westernized asians. and they're not eating the typical asian diet. but hey, what do i know, right? after all, i just lived there and traveled all over southeast asia.
    Last edited by monogod; 06-26-2014 at 09:50 AM.
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  17. #67
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    monogod,

    Could you post up what your perfect day of eating would entail based on a 2000 calorie a day diet? I'm not being smart, just curious what you'd recommend for a patient or for any of us who wanted to make the jump to vegan (or at least mostly vegan).
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycle151 View Post
    Friggin' coward. Give me a red chiclet instead of debating like a man. You don't deserve your green blocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    whoa.... thought you had me on ignore. guess that man-crush of yours just got the better of you again.
    I'm normally into big asses but you just don't do it for me, sorry. The rest of your post i did not read, but don't let that stop you. You were on ignore but it doesn't seem to help since you follow me around, and i can still see the many e-tart troll battles you start with many other members when they respond. As well as when they quote you. how many this week alone?

    Thanx Nubster, at least we'll get a post or 2 that's ot, until someone disagrees anyway.

    Not bragging but it's funny how I'm at the weight i want to be at, for my age i'm in great condition, and my doc says whatever i'm doing is working keep it up. It's amazing people can figure this out without any help from mono, but i must admit his grammar is excellent.
    Round and round we go

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    I'm normally into big asses but you just don't do it for me, sorry. The rest of your post i did not read, but don't let that stop you. You were on ignore but it doesn't seem to help since you follow me around, and i can still see the many e-tart troll battles you start with many other members when they respond. As well as when they quote you. how many this week alone?

    Thanx Nubster, at least we'll get a post or 2 that's ot, until someone disagrees anyway.

    Not bragging but it's funny how I'm at the weight i want to be at, for my age i'm in great condition, and my doc says whatever i'm doing is working keep it up. It's amazing people can figure this out without any help from mono, but i must admit his grammar is excellent.
    why are you so engrossed and infatuated with my mtbr involvement? what a pathetic, empty life you must lead to feel it's your duty to chronicle, indict, adjudicate, and subsequently attempt to moderate someone's behavior on an interweb forum. your mono-fixation in this and other threads is beyond pathological and starting to be of genuine concern.

    case in point: this thread is about diet, nutrition, and health. yet 5 out of the 69 posts in this thread are your off topic mono-themed rants. they are here, here, here, here, and here.

    that means that 7% of this ENTIRE thread, and 38% of your contribution to it (5 out of 13 posts), is nothing but your mewing, sniveling, personal anti-mono campaign. so who's REALLY off topic and derailing the thread here?

    follow you around? seriously? because one or two of the many threads i participate in happens to be one that you got to first? if that's the case then anyone who ever posts after you in a thread is following you around and out to get you. paranoid and delusional is an understatement.

    seriously, put me back on ignore so mtbr will be spared the mushroom cloud of your psychotic, delusional, emotional fallout resultant to the obsessive man-crush you have.
    Last edited by monogod; 06-26-2014 at 07:10 PM.
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    monogod,

    Could you post up what your perfect day of eating would entail based on a 2000 calorie a day diet? I'm not being smart, just curious what you'd recommend for a patient or for any of us who wanted to make the jump to vegan (or at least mostly vegan).
    there are a few factors to take into consideration and few questions i'd need to ask first. one is vegan or mostly vegan? and if mostly vegan, vegetarian or meat inclusive? what is the current diet? looking to include substitutes are not? looking to make a drastic change or gradual? level of preparation/cooking effort willing to commit to?

    if going full vegan i personally strongly discourage counting calories. that's not to say that some things should be consumed in moderation like oils, nuts and nut butters, seeds, olives, monkey meat (fake meat products), and a few other things; but in general there is no need to count calories when eating a balanced and varied vegan diet. it is far more important to eat a wide variety of colors and types of veggies and fruits than to count calories.

    one thing i do encourage is lots and lots of cruciferous veggies for their high antioxidant and phytochemical content. there have been numerous studies that demonstrate a positive correlation between cruciferous veggies and not only prevention of many cancers but also the reversal of them.

    also encourage quinoa and other whole grains, soups, and eating very lightly in the evening.

    before actually sitting down to plan a menu with someone though, i generally ask them to read "the new becoming vegan" and watch "forks over knives" and take notes. i've found that people are more receptive to menu planning when they have some knowledge going into it. most are generally more apt to adhere to their new diet if they are a proactive part of planning it and understand the mechanics of it rather than simply following a dictated list.

    hope that made sense. i can give you a more concrete diet if we can narrow down a few of the variables i mentioned above.
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

  21. #71
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    Ok. It was funny at first and I do appreciate the info here but can we stop comparing manhoods now? Please?

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    Counting calories and paying attention to nutrition is also very important in vegan diets. You can have an unhealthy vegan diet also. A healthy diet can also involve some small amounts of animal products. The operative word is 'small' amount. the typical American consumes and average of 3.5 pounds of food per day, about half a pound as animal source. That is only 1/7 of the total daily consumption, or 14%. Still a lot more animal than you should eat, but hardly rises to the hyperbole of ' a meat based diet'. The USDA recommends about 3-4 ounces of meat per day maximum. The health agencies of various countries recommend a bit more, some less, but all in the general range and way less than the current western average.


    The so called 'Blue Zones' around the world, regions with unusually longevity and low disease rates, have many commonalities in diet, but overall the diets are not the same and vary widely -- some including a fair amount of animal products, other almost pure vegan. Diet is only one of the factors identified in contributing to long life and health.

    China is an interesting example. Earlier mentioned was the low cancer rate in China where animal products are a very small part of the diet. This must be compared, however, to neighboring Mongolia. Very similar ethnicity and genetics, with meat and dairy a much larger part of the typical diet. Yet Mongolia has an even lower cancer rate than China. So diet alone cannot explain cancer rates, and neither can ethnicity/genetics. The complex interrelationship of all the factors is not yet fully understood. You simply cannot pull one out separately (diet) from the rest and declare it the key. This does not mean diet is irrelevant. It is an important factor, you cannot just focus on one aspect, ignoring the rest, and expect success.
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    I have to agree. Maybe not so much calories as much as making sure I get enough protien. Especially being new to this type of diet. I want to lose fat, not weight. Although I check my weight and have a weight based target it's only a guideline and not a magic number. So yeah, paying attention and keeping a record of your food is important, IMHO

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    Quinoa is usually listed as a complete protein, but an asterisk needs to be placed next to the claim.

    Upon analysis, all the essential amino acids will be present, so it meets one definition of complete. HOWEVER -- (here's where the asterisk applies) the amino acids tyrosine and phenylalanine are bound in such a way the body cannot extract and absorb them well. You get only relatively small amounts of those two absorbed and the rest is passed out the other end unused. So some sources claim quinoa is not really a complete protein. It is a definitional dispute and I do not take sides.

    Quinoa has a lower PDCAAS ( a protein quality ranking) score (86) than most animal products. Eggs, tofu, and whey are 100. 86 is still a very good score, though. Peanut butter on whole wheat bread is a complete protein with a PDCAAS score of around 50. Not all complete proteins are equal.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Counting calories and paying attention to nutrition is also very important in vegan diets. You can have an unhealthy vegan diet also. A healthy diet can also involve some small amounts of animal products. The operative word is 'small' amount.
    once can absolutely have an unhealthy vegan diet, but i was referring to a plant-based diet rather than simply one that is free of animal products. apologies if there was some confusion. a vegan diet rich in oreos, potato chips, white bread, hydrogenated oils, processed sugar, and fake meat products is (while vegan) not what i was referring to and would certainly warrant strict calorie counting. however, with a varied and balanced PROPER approach to a plant-based diet i'd suggest calorie counting is not necessary.

    as such, my statement of "calore counting is not necessary" was intentionally a little oversimplified and limited solely to calorie counting - as educating one's self on various protein sources and other nutrients is a given when adopting a vegan diet. or even drastically reducing meat/dairy intake. likewise i'm in total agreement that a healthy diet can involve some small amounts of animal products. as i previously mentioned i'm a huge proponent of a "plant-based diet with sparing use of animal flesh/by-products".

    Quote Originally Posted by dave54
    The so called 'Blue Zones' around the world, regions with unusually longevity and low disease rates, have many commonalities in diet, but overall the diets are not the same and vary widely -- some including a fair amount of animal products, other almost pure vegan. Diet is only one of the factors identified in contributing to long life and health.
    agreed. despite the variances involved, however, i don't think you're arguing that the "exceptions to the rule" are the rule. more often than not increased health and longevity across cultures share the commonality of a more plant-based diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by dave54
    China is an interesting example. Earlier mentioned was the low cancer rate in China where animal products are a very small part of the diet. This must be compared, however, to neighboring Mongolia. Very similar ethnicity and genetics, with meat and dairy a much larger part of the typical diet. Yet Mongolia has an even lower cancer rate than China. So diet alone cannot explain cancer rates, and neither can ethnicity/genetics. The complex interrelationship of all the factors is not yet fully understood. You simply cannot pull one out separately (diet) from the rest and declare it the key. This does not mean diet is irrelevant. It is an important factor, you cannot just focus on one aspect, ignoring the rest, and expect success.
    agreed again. correlation doesn't imply causation, and as such all my eggs aren't solely in the "diet" basket. pun intended.

    mongolia is indeed an interesting case regarding cancer rates, even more so when considering alcoholism and smoking rates within the population are very high. that being said, despite the very low cancer rate the average lifespan of mongolians is 68. that's even less than the american average of 78. begs an interesting question... justify correlating low cancer rate as adoption of a more mongolian-like diet with the downside of a shorter lifespan, or drastically reduce animal content of the diet in favor of a higher likelihood of reduced disease and increased lifespan.

    granted, i know that's not what you're implying here. just pointing out that exceptions to the rules are just that, and that safety seldom lies in the long shot.

    although there is certainly no one single thing that is the answer we were speaking in very simple, general terms to but one narrow aspect of the big picture. diet modification must be combined with lifestyle modifications as well. not just physical exercise but stress/anxiety coping skills, a healthy self-image, quality interpersonal relationships, a positive outlook on life, mental exercise, continued learning, and so on. the epitome of synergistic intercorrelation.

    as with anything else learning about health, disease, and nutrition is the study of a lifetime. the important thing is NOT to take the blue pill.

    great post, dave.
    "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."

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