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  1. #1
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    Pisgah Area Sorba - PAS

    We need a bigger presence on this forum from PAS.I know Snototter is on here but few others.Look you have to have thick skin and not feed the trolls.
    We need more info posted from PAS on here.Get a moderator to sticky a thread to post work days and meetings.Replace one of the other sticky-ed threads if you have too.
    I know most of the main PAS leaders lurk here a lot and I will not call them by name, but someone needs to step up and be proud and promote PAS.

    I was in another state last spring riding and the local SORBA chapter had a canopy set up near the trail head having a membership drive.It was a small fee and they were giving a glass mug and a pair of socks to every one that signed up.No major obligation here just raising money and membership and probably picking up a few more volunteers.

    Hiding/lurking will not get you the volunteers you need.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    We need a bigger presence on this forum from PAS.I know Snototter is on here but few others.Look you have to have thick skin and not feed the trolls.
    We need more info posted from PAS on here.Get a moderator to sticky a thread to post work days and meetings.Replace one of the other sticky-ed threads if you have too.
    I know most of the main PAS leaders lurk here a lot and I will not call them by name, but someone needs to step up and be proud and promote PAS.

    I was in another state last spring riding and the local SORBA chapter had a canopy set up near the trail head having a membership drive.It was a small fee and they were giving a glass mug and a pair of socks to every one that signed up.No major obligation here just raising money and membership and probably picking up a few more volunteers.

    Hiding/lurking will not get you the volunteers you need.
    agree 100% I would happily come up and help form charlotte when possible. I think the other huge problem is 75% of the riders in pisgah are not from the pisgah area... It might help by posting more on here and reaching out to other clubs/forums in the state.

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    It also doesn't help that as a group, the wnc posters look like a collective group of asshats. I am not sure what purpose the bickering has and why one of you doesn't get checked. Pisgah isn't that big of a place....

    In all seriousness, from the outside it looks like there is no organization. I don't see much in the way of info on here, at the trails, in local shops, etc....

    As a frequent visitor, I would love to know more about what's going on in the asheville area. Over the last 15 years a lot more riders have come to the area, but I don't see much happening collectively.

    We spend 10-15 days in Pisgah a year and always camp on 476. We always ride south mills river to head into squirrel and etc. We always spend time clearing drains b/c it seems that it's never done. Last April we were there during the monsoon before the p111 and 55. During our downtime we walked south mills river clearing drains. when we started the whole trail was ankle to shin deep. We walked a couple of miles in and when we returned the trail was draining and there was almost zero standing water. Still wet but was healing in just the hour we were gone. I am not looking for a cookie, b/c i've done more damage than good in my day, but post as an example as to what a little help can do. We didn't have any tools, just used sticks and chacos.

    A little education to the users in the area could go a long way toward maintenance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by driftertom View Post
    It also doesn't help that as a group, the wnc posters look like a collective group of asshats. I am not sure what purpose the bickering has and why one of you doesn't get checked. Pisgah isn't that big of a place....

    In all seriousness, from the outside it looks like there is no organization. I don't see much in the way of info on here, at the trails, in local shops, etc....

    As a frequent visitor, I would love to know more about what's going on in the asheville area. Over the last 15 years a lot more riders have come to the area, but I don't see much happening collectively.

    We spend 10-15 days in Pisgah a year and always camp on 476. We always ride south mills river to head into squirrel and etc. We always spend time clearing drains b/c it seems that it's never done. Last April we were there during the monsoon before the p111 and 55. During our downtime we walked south mills river clearing drains. when we started the whole trail was ankle to shin deep. We walked a couple of miles in and when we returned the trail was draining and there was almost zero standing water. Still wet but was healing in just the hour we were gone. I am not looking for a cookie, b/c i've done more damage than good in my day, but post as an example as to what a little help can do. We didn't have any tools, just used sticks and chacos.

    A little education to the users in the area could go a long way toward maintenance.
    Thanks for this. Still odd that a PAS rep has not responded.

  5. #5
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    PAS has there own website where they post updates

    Pisgah Area SORBA

    They also post all their events on their meetup page.

    Pisgah Area Mountain Biking Meetup (Mills River, NC) - Meetup

    I see no reason for them to post updates here when they have two easily accessible pages especially when people here do act like "collective group of asshats".
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

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    It seems you have changed your position since this post:

    [QUOTE=sasquatch on 1206;10968113]One thing I've always thought was weird about this sub-forum (North and South Carolina) was that the highest percentage of users are from North Carolina,and mostly from Western North Carolina.The biggest discussions are about Pisgah.

    I think your post here is productive feedback and thanks for that. Lots of folks can say "Pisgah SORBA should do......" And the the answer is PAS can in fact do all of those things, if folks jump in to help. There is a ton going on in the PAS world, trail workdays almost every weekend and its wintertime.

    In some fashion or another, the Black Mtn planning day and workdays will be PAS related.

    I plan to host some sustainable trails workshops at REI starting in March, just some presentations on trail design and maintenance. I also plan to host a few work weekend camp outs in DuPont, we have done these in the past and they were tons of fun. We camp Fri/Sat nights, work on Sat, ride Sat afternoon and all day Sun.

    I do agree that there needs to be more outreach. Trailheads on busy days would be good. I think a table at the Banff Film Fest when it comes to Brevard would be a great marketing opportunity and will pitch that to PAS Board. Folks who are involved are however swamped and more folks need to step in and say "Hi, my name is ________ and I am here to help with_________, I have great past experience with____________ . What can I do to help PAS with marketing and outreach (or whatever your area of special interest may be.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    Thanks for this. Still odd that a PAS rep has not responded.

    I will leave that to someone in a better position to comment on why the group chooses not to promote on this forum anymore but really it is because I am a lousy egotistical crew leader and I am not a decision maker in the upper echelon of the club.

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    [QUOTE=Woodman;10979925]It seems you have changed your position since this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    One thing I've always thought was weird about this sub-forum (North and South Carolina) was that the highest percentage of users are from North Carolina,and mostly from Western North Carolina.The biggest discussions are about Pisgah.

    I think your post here is productive feedback and thanks for that. Lots of folks can say "Pisgah SORBA should do......" And the the answer is PAS can in fact do all of those things, if folks jump in to help. There is a ton going on in the PAS world, trail workdays almost every weekend and its wintertime.

    In some fashion or another, the Black Mtn planning day and workdays will be PAS related.

    I plan to host some sustainable trails workshops at REI starting in March, just some presentations on trail design and maintenance. I also plan to host a few work weekend camp outs in DuPont, we have done these in the past and they were tons of fun. We camp Fri/Sat nights, work on Sat, ride Sat afternoon and all day Sun.

    I do agree that there needs to be more outreach. Trailheads on busy days would be good. I think a table at the Banff Film Fest when it comes to Brevard would be a great marketing opportunity and will pitch that to PAS Board. Folks who are involved are however swamped and more folks need to step in and say "Hi, my name is ________ and I am here to help with_________, I have great past experience with____________ . What can I do to help PAS with marketing and outreach (or whatever your area of special interest may be.
    I meant it to be more of a question than a what they should do.I know PAS has had some problems but it just seems they avoid this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snototter View Post
    I will leave that to someone in a better position to comment on why the group chooses not to promote on this forum anymore but really it is because I am a lousy egotistical crew leader and I am not a decision maker in the upper echelon of the club.
    It does seem like they choose to not promote PAS on this forum.

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    OK I see where Logover's signature is "VP Pisgah Area Sorba" and he does post here very sparingly.I'd be interested to hear why he doesn't post more.

  11. #11
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    Ever think about PM'ing and asking him?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    OK I see where Logover's signature is "VP Pisgah Area Sorba" and he does post here very sparingly.I'd be interested to hear why he doesn't post more.
    I'd venture to say they have a life outside of an internet discussion boars. Scary right?

    Though I actually agree with a lot you said. I myself have said several times that PAS has a marketing and public perception issue. Part of the public perception is no one knows about them, who or what they are. Pretty sad given the number of mountain bikers in the area and the obvious lack of participation. I find myself guilty of not participating other than a couple of work days this past year.

    I think the answer and probably what PAS wants. If my opinion definitely what they need is more participation both on the trails and in the background. Instead of us complaining about them on the internet.

    So it's a personal goal of mine to become more involved, do some trail work and maybe try to help out PAS if They what it. Now comes my complaint. There is no info on the website about any upcoming meetings, needs, membership drives etc.

    There is so much we as a community and PAS as an organization could be doing. Education for one. Obviously we need it. I would say a good number of people that are out tearing up the trails during theses really wet conditions are just ignorant as to the damage they are doing. Granted a lot of others just don't care. Hell I'm guilty of riding in questionable conditions. Which is why I feel I need to pay some back whether it is in sweat, skills, time or otherwise.

    In the end it's easy to complain, much harder to change something for the better.

    I would challenge all of us that are complaining, to make an effort to make a positive change within PAS by participating. Set aside our differences and work towards our common love of mountain biking and our trails in WNC.
    Sent via my heady vibes from the heart of Pisgahstan

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    We need a bigger presence on this forum from PAS.I know Snototter is on here but few others.Look you have to have thick skin and not feed the trolls.
    We need more info posted from PAS on here.Get a moderator to sticky a thread to post work days and meetings.Replace one of the other sticky-ed threads if you have too.
    I know most of the main PAS leaders lurk here a lot and I will not call them by name, but someone needs to step up and be proud and promote PAS.

    I was in another state last spring riding and the local SORBA chapter had a canopy set up near the trail head having a membership drive.It was a small fee and they were giving a glass mug and a pair of socks to every one that signed up.No major obligation here just raising money and membership and probably picking up a few more volunteers.

    Hiding/lurking will not get you the volunteers you need.
    Hi Sasquatch,
    First I am glad for you interest in what Pisgah Area Sorba is doing. There once was a time PAS was putting up lots of information on here. Most of the discussions on here have not moved to a lot of action on getting more volunteers to dig dirt. I was asked to not put trail work days on here and that kind of info belongs on the web site or other outlets because of so many work days going on. I will post up our big events on here and open work days. Other times Woody helps me out by posting up his work days on here. Mike posts up his Richmond hill workdays. When it comes to posting up Pisgah and Bent creek work days we don't want someone coming out to dig dirt and turn them away because they didn't get signed up to get under the liability the USNFS wants to cover on their land.
    Pisgah Area SORBA Add me to the Trail Crew list
    I will say since I joined the Board of directors and we moved to posting more on our own web site, Facebook and Meetup we have been seeing more new faces and larger numbers for work days.
    You can see all our work days and events on our calendar and if you find one missing please let me know and I can usually get it on our site in the hour. chris@pisgahareasorba.org

    Pisgah Area Mountain Biking Meetup (Mills River, NC) - Meetup

    You can also see all our work days at this link.
    Pisgah Area SORBA Forum Trail Work Days & Closings

    As for signs at the trail heads the NFS has not allowed us to put them up. I am hoping with our improving relationship that will change. We have been attempting to put flyers up in any business or bike shop that will allow us to do it. Flyer image below. We do have a booth that we have set up at several events, bike shops trail heads and festivals around the area to increase our presents. We are always looking for people to help with them. Also some bike shops hand out PAS packets with every new bike sold. Almost forgot we have been featured on local radio stations.

    I also, have been following the Black mountain discussion very closely while I am away on vacation. I like what I have been reading and hope something great comes from it, and I will be there with shovel in hand when it is time to dig.

    For me, being a part of PAS has been a great experience. It does take me away from the bike but the reward is when I get back on it and see the progress.



    Pisgah Area Sorba - PAS-1017318_10152147773214857_146226995_n.jpg
    Pisgah Area Sorba - Web Site Communications
    http://www.pisgahareasorba.org/

  14. #14
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    red post is my response to mattnmtns (your help is always welcome
    Now comes my complaint. There is no info on the website about any upcoming meetings, needs, membership drives etc.

    All meeting are posted on the calendar on the link in my previous post.
    I will admit our Feb meeting needs to be posted as well as the agenda for next year on the calendar. We are working on the dates for the year. I also post up all meetings on the main page. You can see the previous ones at the link below.
    Pisgah Area SORBA Events


    There is so much we as a community and PAS as an organization could be doing. Education for one. Obviously we need it. I would say a good number of people that are out tearing up the trails during theses really wet conditions are just ignorant as to the damage they are doing. Granted a lot of others just don't care. Hell I'm guilty of riding in questionable conditions. Which is why I feel I need to pay some back whether it is in sweat, skills, time or otherwise.

    We try to educate as much as we can on our group rides for all that show up. My motto is one rider at a time, in the hopes that rider tells another and another and another...

    we also have this page for volunteers needed. I am sure there are more positions needed than what is posted.
    Pisgah Area SORBA Volunteers needed
    Pisgah Area Sorba - Web Site Communications
    http://www.pisgahareasorba.org/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logover View Post
    I was asked to not put trail work days on here
    I guess it's just too much trouble.

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    Re: Pisgah Area Sorba - PAS

    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    I guess it's just too much trouble.
    Most likely because the general response to anything ever posted on this board is met with asshattery, *****ing or thread derailment. WNC seems like a small enough area to be more of a community. As a newbie around here it blows my mind to read the way folks talk to one another... I've just assumed that everyone knows each other behind the screen names and I'm not on the joke.

    Small example.. Even the most innocent attempt to start a conversation about new riding opportunities in the area gets posted. I subbed the thread because I was interested in new trails to explore. A day passes and of course someone posted a smart ass video of crickets chirping. Trolling may as well have a point system on these boards. That's the dumbest example but that stuff happens all the time and threads turn into personal attacks.

    I would like to see all the work days posted here too. Might not be worth the effort and listening to the keyboard trail builder critiques. That Black Mtn thread is the most positive thread I've read on here.

    At this point I'm just rambling but as far as I know this board is one of the few public records of MTB news in the region and it's what a lot of folks look to when they think of visiting the area. We look like a bunch of little shits bickering about everything on here and it's embarrassing when you look at it from an outsider perspective. I'd guess the worst perpetrators don't care much what others think though. I'd just ask people to think about what they post sometimes. If it is helpful or not or contributes to the conversation.

    P.s. I'm just talking about these forums. I've only met great people on group rides and on the trails and generally the town of Brevard is full of incredibly kind people. Not making a statement about WNC... just these message boards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jn35646 View Post
    Most likely because the general response to anything ever posted on this board is met with asshattery, *****ing or thread derailment. WNC seems like a small enough area to be more of a community. As a newbie around here it blows my mind to read the way folks talk to one another... I've just assumed that everyone knows each other behind the screen names and I'm not on the joke.

    Small example.. Even the most innocent attempt to start a conversation about new riding opportunities in the area gets posted. I subbed the thread because I was interested in new trails to explore. A day passes and of course someone posted a smart ass video of crickets chirping. Trolling may as well have a point system on these boards. That's the dumbest example but that stuff happens all the time and threads turn into personal attacks.

    I would like to see all the work days posted here too. Might not be worth the effort and listening to the keyboard trail builder critiques. That Black Mtn thread is the most positive thread I've read on here.

    At this point I'm just rambling but as far as I know this board is one of the few public records of MTB news in the region and it's what a lot of folks look to when they think of visiting the area. We look like a bunch of little shits bickering about everything on here and it's embarrassing when you look at it from an outsider perspective. I'd guess the worst perpetrators don't care much what others think though. I'd just ask people to think about what they post sometimes. If it is helpful or not or contributes to the conversation.

    P.s. I'm just talking about these forums. I've only met great people on group rides and on the trails and generally the town of Brevard is full of incredibly kind people. Not making a statement about WNC... just these message boards.
    Maybe it's too anonymous and members can post whatever.It's easy to point out the faults of this forum.I guess PAS just gave up on this forum.So back to the usual posting I guess.
    Oh I posted the cricket video,Woody's post had been up for days and no one responded, it was my try at sarcasm.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    Maybe it's too anonymous and members can post whatever.It's easy to point out the faults of this forum.I guess PAS just gave up on this forum.So back to the usual posting I guess.
    Oh I posted the cricket video,Woody's post had been up for days and no one responded, it was my try at sarcasm.
    My post was intended to get folks to report all the great stuff happening all over NC/SC. Yes, I took it as sarcasm. Moto has kicked us off now and hopefully others will join. Seemed like we needed a break from all the negativity that can happen here with some positive news like new trails being built and more places to ride mtn bikes. I will post up some stuff on that thread today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jn35646 View Post
    Most likely because the general response to anything ever posted on this board is met with asshattery, *****ing or thread derailment. WNC seems like a small enough area to be more of a community. As a newbie around here it blows my mind to read the way folks talk to one another... I've just assumed that everyone knows each other behind the screen names and I'm not on the joke.

    Small example.. Even the most innocent attempt to start a conversation about new riding opportunities in the area gets posted. I subbed the thread because I was interested in new trails to explore. A day passes and of course someone posted a smart ass video of crickets chirping. Trolling may as well have a point system on these boards. That's the dumbest example but that stuff happens all the time and threads turn into personal attacks.

    I would like to see all the work days posted here too. Might not be worth the effort and listening to the keyboard trail builder critiques. That Black Mtn thread is the most positive thread I've read on here.

    At this point I'm just rambling but as far as I know this board is one of the few public records of MTB news in the region and it's what a lot of folks look to when they think of visiting the area. We look like a bunch of little shits bickering about everything on here and it's embarrassing when you look at it from an outsider perspective. I'd guess the worst perpetrators don't care much what others think though. I'd just ask people to think about what they post sometimes. If it is helpful or not or contributes to the conversation.

    P.s. I'm just talking about these forums. I've only met great people on group rides and on the trails and generally the town of Brevard is full of incredibly kind people. Not making a statement about WNC... just these message boards.
    Dude, i've been here almost 7 years and it's always the same thing with this forum and this community (as far as mtn biking goes). You just can't ever win with any trail conversation.
    If Black mtn got turned into a flow trail people will complain. If it got wiped from the map to bikes, people would complain. If it stays the same people will complain. When I see other areas of the country, with healthy attitudes and good things happening it makes me sad to see that people here can't work towards the greater good, whether they agree with it or not.

  20. #20
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    Pisgah Area Sorba - PAS

    People have different ideas/wants concerning local trails. Some are passionate. Not everybody wants the same thing and the bottom line is that compromises are going to have to be made. Period. Some will be pissed and b!tch. Some will do nothing. As for me, I'm gonna dig. And I'll put my .02 cents in. In the end I reckon I'll be pleased with the outcome. Even if it's not what "I" wanted.

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    Thank you for your post and well written comments. I am certain the PAS Board has disused the value of MTBR as a method to convey messages and you are spot on that too many threads just get derailed and turn into negative biotch fests. That is why those of us to want to see good and productive use of the forum as a communication tool need to stay here and not get too discouraged by all the BS that happens here. Trails are not the only thing eroding here, so is respect to others in the community.

    You took my new ride opportunities exactly as it was intended, to educate and inform folks on new places to go ride (that would seem to be of interest no?) but also to showcase that trails don't "just happen". There is in fact a ton of good new trail being built and lots of hard work by volunteers and professionals providing new stuff to go ride all the time. And all we hear is negative whining. I wanted to try and turn the conversation around and remind us all how good we actually have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jn35646 View Post
    Most likely because the general response to anything ever posted on this board is met with asshattery, *****ing or thread derailment. WNC seems like a small enough area to be more of a community. As a newbie around here it blows my mind to read the way folks talk to one another... I've just assumed that everyone knows each other behind the screen names and I'm not on the joke.

    Small example.. Even the most innocent attempt to start a conversation about new riding opportunities in the area gets posted. I subbed the thread because I was interested in new trails to explore. A day passes and of course someone posted a smart ass video of crickets chirping. Trolling may as well have a point system on these boards. That's the dumbest example but that stuff happens all the time and threads turn into personal attacks.

    I would like to see all the work days posted here too. Might not be worth the effort and listening to the keyboard trail builder critiques. That Black Mtn thread is the most positive thread I've read on here.

    At this point I'm just rambling but as far as I know this board is one of the few public records of MTB news in the region and it's what a lot of folks look to when they think of visiting the area. We look like a bunch of little shits bickering about everything on here and it's embarrassing when you look at it from an outsider perspective. I'd guess the worst perpetrators don't care much what others think though. I'd just ask people to think about what they post sometimes. If it is helpful or not or contributes to the conversation.

    P.s. I'm just talking about these forums. I've only met great people on group rides and on the trails and generally the town of Brevard is full of incredibly kind people. Not making a statement about WNC... just these message boards.

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    A trail that has rolling grade dips (that actually work) instead old wooden waterbars for water management is not a flow trail. That is the problem, folks don't know what they are talking about. They are passionate about what they like, but few seem to be willing to go out and work hard to get what they like.
    In all my years as a professional trail builder (with trail Dynamics) and now as a trail consultant (no longer with TD, semi- retired and still doing some consulting work), there is no trail user group more hard to please than the mountain bike community.

    And like you, I travel to other areas and it seems worse here in western NC than anywhere else I have been. Sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by spankye View Post
    Dude, i've been here almost 7 years and it's always the same thing with this forum and this community (as far as mtn biking goes). You just can't ever win with any trail conversation.
    If Black mtn got turned into a flow trail people will complain. If it got wiped from the map to bikes, people would complain. If it stays the same people will complain. When I see other areas of the country, with healthy attitudes and good things happening it makes me sad to see that people here can't work towards the greater good, whether they agree with it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Thank you for your post and well written comments. I am certain the PAS Board has disused the value of MTBR as a method to convey messages and you are spot on that too many threads just get derailed and turn into negative biotch fests. That is why those of us to want to see good and productive use of the forum as a communication tool need to stay here and not get too discouraged by all the BS that happens here. Trails are not the only thing eroding here, so is respect to others in the community.

    You took my new ride opportunities exactly as it was intended, to educate and inform folks on new places to go ride (that would seem to be of interest no?) but also to showcase that trails don't "just happen". There is in fact a ton of good new trail being built and lots of hard work by volunteers and professionals providing new stuff to go ride all the time. And all we hear is negative whining. I wanted to try and turn the conversation around and remind us all how good we actually have it.
    Totally agree on everything you said. I think your words on the positive people/content staying around is really important. Just ignoring trolling comments will go a long way to ending them.

    Some folks troll in good fun, some do it because they are just miserable. Whether the intentions are good or bad, it derails what can be a good place to hang out, chat and get informed online.

    That said there is a lot of good here, you just gotta dig and ignore chunks of it.

    I think people vastly underestimate the amount of people that come on here and read a lot of if not everything posted but don't post at all themselves.

  24. #24
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    Last edited by dhouskee; 02-05-2014 at 12:39 PM. Reason: wrong thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankye View Post
    Dude, i've been here almost 7 years and it's always the same thing with this forum and this community (as far as mtn biking goes). You just can't ever win with any trail conversation.
    If Black mtn got turned into a flow trail people will complain. If it got wiped from the map to bikes, people would complain. If it stays the same people will complain. When I see other areas of the country, with healthy attitudes and good things happening it makes me sad to see that people here can't work towards the greater good, whether they agree with it or not.
    This. I've been a PAS Member since I arrived in Asheville, and what I have learned from this forum, is that PAS sucks because they build sustainable trails, PAS sucks because they don't maintain the trails, PAS sucks because the drains aren't cleaned daily, PAS sucks because there is a big washout in the middle of someones favorite trail, PAS sucks because they fixed the big washout and destroyed the flavor of the trail, PAS sucks because there are leaves on the trail, PAS sucks because there aren't leaves on the trail, PAS sucks because the parking lots are too full, PAS sucks because they don't educate people to not ride wet trails, PAS sucks because they have the nerve to tell me I can't ride wet trails, and mostly PAS sucks because most people want others to do the work, but really like to complain when it is not done to their expectations by a VOLUNTEER organization.

    It get really foocking old.
    Pisgah Area SORBA

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    ... your idea of technical may be much different than other peoples idea of technical.

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