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  1. #1
    i put turds in your bag.
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    ORAMM results/payout

    If I recall correctly, the results showed 293 entrants for the ORAMM. I remember hearing that there were more than 300 paid participants at $90 per entry.

    293 entrants X $90 fee per entry = $26,370.

    I noticed that there were several noteworthy names absent from the results.

    What was the payout for this race?

    thanks,
    - m
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  2. #2
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    There were 361 people that started the race.
    400 for first place is the only promoted payout.

    What's your point?

    This race was worth every cent from this participant's standpoint. Blue Ridge Adventures puts hundreds and hundreds of human hours into this event, including over 200 hours of trail maintenance. If they made money off the event, it was less than you think and in my opinion, more power to them. They are the ones that took the initiative to organize a stellar competition that, judging from turnout and every bit of feedback I've heard or seen, was fun for all.

    Why worry if money's being made? Unfortunately or fortunately, that's the way our society works. As a consumer, I'm the one who chose to hand my money over.

    If you're asking just out of curiousity, sorry for my assumption that you might be asking for other reasons.

    Mike

  3. #3
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    I don't think anyone does this race for money (unless you plan on beating Jeremiah Bishop, doubtful)

    This was my first year and will gladly pay the entry fee again next year. The course was brutal and in awesome shape. The volunteers did a super job before the race clearing the trails and at the checkpoints. The organization was A+. The promoter deserves to profit from a race, that's the whole point of promoting a great event. I bet you that next year they will have over 450 racers and I will be one of them.

  4. #4
    i put turds in your bag.
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    Well, let me make an assumption myself: you obviously either make enough money working, or have some other cash cow that allows you to afford $90 race entry fees.

    I'm not worried if money is being made. My concern is the flaws, which seem obvious to some, and are obviously invisible to others(...). There's plenty of yacking about building the sport with juniors, and newcomers, etc. I don't see $90 entry fees as being too enticing to poor people who might otherwise show up and make the race more interesting. So was the competition really all that stellar if the entry fee is so steep it keeps would-be racers from showing up?

    Two hundred hours of trailwork, eh? Okay... So they did 200 hours of trailwork before the race? Rightfully so! If you're gonna run 361 people over the trails in a timeframe of a half-day, you better get out there and do some preparatory work, unless you want an angry, torch-toting mob on your doorstep that night. So, unless they plan to do a bunch of work on the trails after the race, then I don't consider the trailwork they did to have been necessarily philanthropic or generous in nature, as your tone seems to suggest. If the switchbacks (wall-rides) below the Star Gap/Heartbreak junction have been repaired, perhaps then will I appreciate their trailwork.

    Congratulations on being a conscious consumer. I'm glad you had fun. I just think it's too bad that I have friends who didn't race either in protest of the entry fee, or simply because they could not afford to do so.
    Last edited by dinsmore; 07-29-2006 at 08:54 AM.
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  5. #5
    Why Me
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    Small Price To Pay. This entry fee is small compared to most! The race is worth the money.

  6. #6
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    I still think the entry fee was VERY affordable. Yes it's $90 and yes I have a job, obviously mountain bike racing does not pay the bills, but I've paid $35 to do XC races that last 1.5 hrs many times and they don't offer nearly as much fun nor are they as complex to promote as a 64 mile race. You should check out the solo entry fees on some other endurance races. As far newcomers, I'd hardly qualify this race as being suitable for a newcomer, yes it can be done but they will suffer...

    You know you can ride the race route for free everyday don't you?

  7. #7
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    They also supplied toilets, beer & food post race, tons of food and drink during the race, drove people stuff and other supplies to checkpoints, provided lots of workers, tents, and mechanics at the checkpoints, supplied a police escort, put up and took down markers, and did a post race clean-up. There were craploads of trash along the route during the race. We road heartbreak the next day, and most of it had already been removed.
    They could have used another toilet or two, but they did a very nice job at a good value.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinsmore
    Congratulations on being a conscious consumer. I'm glad you had fun. I just think it's too bad that I have friends who didn't race either in protest of the entry fee, or simply because they could not afford to do so.
    I didn't race it because I couldn't afford it. I still thought the $90 while a little high, was reasonable for an event this size. A lot of things have to happen behind the scenes for an event of this magnitude to be a success. Think about all the money spent just on promotions alone!

    If Mike Bs guess about trail work hours is correct, that's freakin amazing! Think about it this way even people who didn't attend/support the event are still getting benefits from mountain bike racing, I'm sure those trails look better now than before the start even after all those bikes raced on them. Why dont' you go out there and check them out before critizing the work?

    All that aside I totally agree that there should be a racing series in the Asheville area that caters to 1. poor people who like to race, 2. beginners. I'd fully support a grassroots mid-week XC race series and I'm actually very surprised one doesn't exist here. How about a 5 -7 race summer series with awards going to most points at the end of said series. Keep it as simple as possible. I know that getting something like that going is anything but simple (like where would we do it?) but I'd certainly love to see that happen. Just some thoughts...

    the thing is that the ORAMM is it's own thing, and it's like a status thing just to say you completed the race. I think that's why a lot of people do it. That and it sounds fun as all hell. Hopefully next year...

  9. #9
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    thanks.

    Yeah, I know I can ride it because I have. I didn't say that I wanted to do the race myself. Personally, I think a nine mile fire road climb is less fun than I could have elsewhere in the woods.

    I'm not sure if you missed it, but as I noted in my initial post, there are a few names that I didn't see in the results, and it was not because they lack competitive spirit/edge. My original question was a rhetorical one. But whatever, if you'd like to pay $90 to ride a course that you can do any other day for free, go right ahead.

    You're right, this course is not for newcomers. Did you win? Where'd you place? Did you come close to winning your entry fee back? Maybe some newcomer might not have even finished, but had fun all in the same?

    Since the race was so much fun, maybe you guys could see a little sense in the promoter(s) lowering the entry fee so that people who have tuitions, kids, or just generally empty pockets could show up and enjoy the competition. And rather than clearing $30K, the promoter(s) could rake in a pathetic $25K...
    Last edited by dinsmore; 07-29-2006 at 03:03 PM.
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  10. #10
    i put turds in your bag.
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    fantastic

    I'm not saying they didn't do a great job putting on the race. Awesome; round up a load of volunteers and toilets and brownies and gatorade/powerade and holy moly, everyone's rich enough to do the race. How could they not?! Free* toilet paper!

    At the risk of sounding like an *******, I've done the course a few times. I had a 100oz. camelbak full of gatorade, and some bread and bars. I keep those things inside the camelbak, which I keep on my back. While I'll have to admit that I didn't drag my own toilet with me, I also have to admit that I didn't take a dump on the trails.

    I'm pretty much done with this. Anyone who's reading objectively can see my point, whether they agree with it or not. And that is simply this: there were some people who could have and would have affected the outcome of the results, who did not race because they either could not afford to, or they refused to pay for it.

    Respect due to Jeremiah, who works very hard and earns every single one of his results.







    *well, free with paid entry...
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  11. #11
    Heads up Flyboy!!
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    And as always we have someone to complain about the fees. I understand, its why I don't do many races myself. I still think your getting a better deal then most 10-20 mile long 2-3 lap xc races that people pay $35 bucks just to race which most offer no food included in the entry, beer, or the kick A support crew.
    1st and foremost Blue Ridge Adventures is a buisness and like all buisnesses its owner wants it to make money.
    2. every single checkpoint vounteer, course offical, course markers, course sweepers are paid. Everyone of them.
    3. To advertise on my website is not free. I am friends with Todd but I still treat our buisness interactions just like everyone else.
    4. Do you realize why there are not that many races in the national forest? Permits, man! The forest service has to know every single detail of the race and that includes a Blue Ridge Parkway permit. By the way, to get a permit isn't just a 5 minute form to fill out like a fishing licience.

    now, back to my beer and dreaming of building up my new road bike frame sitting in my dining room...

  12. #12
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    If you want events to continue, they had better make money.

    1. It was the first event I have ever entered. It was great, the organization and support were excellent. The aid stations still had plenty when I got there!
    2. I finished #289
    3. It was money well spent.
    4. $90 is affordable to nearly everyone. I never come across mountain bikers that bike 2 or 3 or more times a week that do not have money to spend on their sport, no matter what job they have. The bike, the upgrades, the different tires, the jersey, etc, etc. So everyone can afford the race if they want to, it is all about what you choose to spend money.
    5. As Jeremy said, companies are in business to make money, after they pay their expenses (and employees). If they don't make money, no more business, no more race. The more money he makes, the better chance their will be a race next year.
    6. Anyone who wants to do it, start saving now, $2.00 a week. We all waste more than that a week.

  13. #13
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    $90 to ride trails you can ride for free any time, and the consensus is it's worth it. I guess I just don't get it.

    Jack

  14. #14
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    I've done both this event and the Swank65 for free by contributing trailwork ahead of time back when I was poor and happily living in the mountains. Now that I'm back down in the flatlands and making more money I was only able to do a half day of trailwork before this race so I had no problem with paying the fee. But if you and your friends are honestly willing to contribute trailwork hours in exchange for an entry fee get in touch with Todd.

    I gotta say you're picking on the wrong people if you're proposing that Blue Ridge Adventures doesn't give back to the trails. In the past I've done volunteer work with Todd on Heartbreak, Caney / Cove Creek, and Sycamore Cove. For a long time he led a monthly volunteer crew in the Pisgah district, and he's now officially adopted Heartbreak Ridge. The trails were in beautiful shape for this race, the hours of trailwork invested showed.

    I would not have done this ride unsupported and without the framework of the race. I'm sorry if some people didn't race it because they couldn't or wouldn't pay the fee, but I could care less about the overall results or the prizes. I did win my age class, and I did not win any cash, I won a jersey, a pair of sunglasses and a cool trophy. Better yet, I beat last year's time by 10 minutes, I was able to help another rider finish without losing any time myself by dropping my camelback & chain tool for him at the bottom of Kitsuma (more good karma!), I got to see some friends finish their first ORAMM with huge grins on their faces in 10:45 and 11:20 (they're already planning for next year's race), and I'm still falling asleep with a smile on my face going over the ride in my head. Money well spent!

  15. #15
    i put turds in your bag.
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    Valerie

    Valerie,
    Congratulations on winning your age group. The race is not a joke. It is a monumental accomplishment to finish it, and that much more monumental to win any of its prestigious categories.

    While I do not personally know Todd, I have friends that do. For years, I have heard only good things about him and his contributions to the sport. It was not my intention to belittle him, or anyone else in particular. My intent was to make it known that there are people who, for their own reasons, that are directly related to the costs (and more importantly the crappy payout), do not compete. Despite the brilliant money managing advice being tossed around by David "Greenspan" George, it doesn't quite work as simply as saving two dollars per week...

    Some of the friends to which I loosely refered do more than their fair share of trailwork. The others are juggling pro contracts, high school drama life, and some good ol' American apathy.

    Thanks again to all of the people who gave this thread (and my blatherings therein) serious thought.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFromNC
    $90 to ride trails you can ride for free any time, and the consensus is it's worth it. I guess I just don't get it.

    Jack
    It's all about the competition. To me anyway. You really can't push yourself as hard all by yourself as you can when you're competing. You shouldn't either, wouldn't be safe if you were to crash. Plus, it's always great giving words of encouragement to others (or receiving them) as someone is struggling up climb. Guess we're just social animals.
    I didn't do the ride but it wasn't because of cost, it was because of scheduling.

    Lou.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFromNC
    $90 to ride trails you can ride for free any time, and the consensus is it's worth it. I guess I just don't get it.

    Jack

    You don't have to. Just ride and leave the racers alone.

  18. #18
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    FWIW, two hundred plus hours trail labor is not a guess. That's per Todd, and for those hours to "count," he has to log them with the FS.
    Mike

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinsmore
    And that is simply this: there were some people who could have and would have affected the outcome of the results, who did not race because they either could not afford to, or they refused to pay for it.
    If I could train more hours a week and had better genes I could've affected the outcome as well. So what? As for people who refused to pay, that's their decision. In either case, I'm left wondering why you're complaining about this but the folks who couldn't or wouldn't pay aren't. If the above is really the only point you have to make, well, its a pretty weak one.
    When the going gets weird its bedtime.

  20. #20
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    You Don't Have To Race

    Quote Originally Posted by dinsmore
    If I recall correctly, the results showed 293 entrants for the ORAMM. I remember hearing that there were more than 300 paid participants at $90 per entry.

    293 entrants X $90 fee per entry = $26,370.

    I noticed that there were several noteworthy names absent from the results.

    What was the payout for this race?

    thanks,
    - m
    Exxon Mobil makes more than $10 billion
    No. 1 U.S. oil company earns $1,318 a second - topping forecasts - but comes in just shy of a record.
    By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer
    July 27 2006: 4:27 PM EDT


    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Profits at Exxon Mobil surged 36 percent to a near record $10.4 billion in the second quarter as surging oil prices helped the world's largest publicly traded company soundly beat Wall Street forecasts.

    The company's profit - which amounts to a cool $1,318 a second - is the second biggest ever reported by a U.S. company, behind only the $10.7 billion Exxon itself earned in the fourth quarter of 2005.

    A lot of people don't have a choice about driving.
    keep it in check.

    Blue Ridge Adv. profit per second 0.00083,and even that calculation is a little high, too
    Last edited by Wes D; 07-30-2006 at 06:22 PM.

  21. #21
    i put turds in your bag.
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    Well, considering you've posted to this forum nearly 2,300 times, you could probably go to spend a few less hours gobbing up a keyboard with your jellyfingers...maybe that would clear up some time to train.

    The "strength" of the point is probably immeasurable, since it's a fact, rather than an idea on which you might speculate while "working".

    Do the race if you like. I'm not at all concerned with you. I was just wondering if anyone who lives on this messageboard (like yourself) was thinking along similar lines.

    Obviously very few of you are, and that's cool with me too... Or maybe it actually says something else. Perhaps some of the people who didn't do the race for the aformentioned reasons don't get all their talking (and riding) done on the internet?

    Wheels down, fella!
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  22. #22
    paintbucket
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    I dunno, maybe I'm missing something here. We're talking about $90, which isn't much, really, considering that whoever these folks are they've already dropped significantly more than that on a bike. People make decisions in life. If an outcome of those decisions is that they can't afford $90 for a bike race, in this case (since they have a bike) I figure its more a question of priorities rather than actual income and I equate it with those folks who chose to do another race instead or chose to pass because of other races coming up. Lots of them could also have affected the outcome but, for whatever reason, weren't there. Their choice.
    When the going gets weird its bedtime.

  23. #23
    BigRing
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    Pardon my French....but...What a ****in' ********!!!

    If anyone wants to complain it should be someone who paid the entry fee. I don't think any of those people have said anything negative about the event. Plain and simple...the race was awesome and the post race festivities were worth every cent. One note, if you pre-registered it was only $80 and a free shirt...and no NORBA required. That saves a few dollars in itself. It's a big event once a year and amounts to 4 nights at Barley's for pizza and beer. The Kistuma trailwork was a big improvement and was quite fun to ride. The checkpoints were nice too when you are bonked...guess what...food and drinks no questions asked. In fact, encouraging words were plentiful and did I mention the course was beautiful?

    So, as far as cash cows and such...it's about priorities....this race is worth every penny.

    I'm looking forward to it next year.

  24. #24
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    Product Reviews | Trail Reviews | Classifieds | Hotlinks | Forums | Races & Events | Gallery | Hot Deals

    Home | Forums
    Last edited by Super-Slow; 08-03-2006 at 07:13 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super-Slow
    Maybe this will go through...

    F u c k i n g D i c k h e a d
    ........
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #26
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    Just so that you know you are not the only one out there... I didn't do the race due to the $90 fee. For $90 I can put that in my car with some friends and we can go anywhere in the state round trip and ride 5 miles or 100. I do like the atmosphere of the races and I am extremely competitive so love racing but $90 for the race + $50 in gas + $25 for food etc is still a bit mroe than just $90 to ride for free. If I really wanted to I could have afforded the race and not had to eat Ramen for a week as a result, but for me it is my personal choice to spend my money elsewhere and wait for the cheaper/free events that come up.

  27. #27
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    Bishop is a sissy.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinsmore
    If I recall correctly, the results showed 293 entrants for the ORAMM. I remember hearing that there were more than 300 paid participants at $90 per entry.

    293 entrants X $90 fee per entry = $26,370.

    I noticed that there were several noteworthy names absent from the results.

    What was the payout for this race?

    thanks,
    - m
    I totally would have kicked his @ss, but I didn't feel like paying $90.

    Race haters are funny.

    ZB
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  28. #28
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    D@mn those 4 hours. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Broussard
    I totally would have kicked his @ss, but I didn't feel like paying $90.

    Race haters are funny.

    ZB
    If I wouldn't have spent so much time at the rest stops, I might have kicked his butt as well. If I can shave 4 hours off this year's time I will beat that sucka's time by 5 minutes next year. Can I get a hellya.

    My tires must be too heavy. ..

  29. #29
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    Unfortunately...

    Quote Originally Posted by wooglin
    I dunno, maybe I'm missing something here. We're talking about $90, which isn't much, really, considering that whoever these folks are they've already dropped significantly more than that on a bike ...
    Unfortunately I got beat by a guy who spent less than that on his bike. It was a late 80's/early 90's fully rigid bike with canti's. He told me he picked it up for $40. If I wasn't demoralized enough by all of the women who beat me.....

    I had a good time and it was worth every penny. Hopefully I will be back again next year for my 3rd. Going into it guys like me know the prize money is out of reach, so I could care less if any is given out. I am just happy that there are nice people to talk to while I crawl up the climbs, good trail markings, well stocked aid stations, encouraging volunteers, and someone available to save me if I get busted up somewhere out there.

    B

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by extrmtao
    If I wouldn't have spent so much time at the rest stops, I might have kicked his butt as well. If I can shave 4 hours off this year's time I will beat that sucka's time by 5 minutes next year. Can I get a hellya.

    My tires must be too heavy. ..
    If I shave 4 hours he would still beat me by 7 minutes

  31. #31
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    My tires must be too heavy
    That's my excuse.... geeze.

  32. #32
    I like Squishy Bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-U-M
    My tires must be too heavy
    That's my excuse.... geeze.
    Excuse?
    You're running a 2.4 up front & its so big its creating its own gravity

    Come to think of it, my 2.1's are heavy too
    A dirty book is rarely dusty

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingluis
    If I shave 4 hours he would still beat me by 7 minutes

    I love being slow. We get more bang for our buck that way. I bet those guys that win the thing don't even take their bikes off any sweet jumps. . .

    This is for the slow guys:


  34. #34
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    Dins - let us know when you put on your event complete with a 65 mile course, permits, insurance, beer, food, well stocked rest stops etc....

  35. #35
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    Sure thing, genius

    Quote Originally Posted by seenvic
    Dins - let us know when you put on your event complete with a 65 mile course, permits, insurance, beer, food, well stocked rest stops etc....
    No problem! You be sure and let me know when you're able to execute the most basic of mental procedures, at which point I'll start coaching you through the more difficult stuff like critical thinking, and retention of information for periods longer than the two minutes it took you to react ignorantly to the posts through which you're bumbling.
    Things fall apart. Strap yourself with superglue.

  36. #36
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    And here is to everyone who doesn't get enough complaints at work and needs to complain some more on MTBR which we all love. . .


  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by extrmtao
    And here is to everyone who doesn't get enough complaints at work and needs to complain some more on MTBR which we all love. . .


    Man extrmtao you are hilarious, how did you get those violin guys to fit perfectly across one line?

    Luck I guess.

  38. #38
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    OK, smartass.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinsmore
    No problem! You be sure and let me know when you're able to execute the most basic of mental procedures, at which point I'll start coaching you through the more difficult stuff like critical thinking, and retention of information for periods longer than the two minutes it took you to react ignorantly to the posts through which you're bumbling.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but your point seems to be that there "needs" to be some
    sort of cheap racing for poor people and kids.

    If your buds stayed out to "protest", then they are free to write to Todd and say
    "I, Mr. Superdeluxe Badass Racer, do hereby refuse to enter your race because
    it's too expensive." I'm sure their protest will be duly noted and taken into consideration.

    If your buds just flat out can't afford the race, then I'm sorry and that sucks.... but
    that's just life. They want to race but can't afford it. I want a WRX STI, but I can't
    afford it. Maybe I can just call up Subaru and protest?

    Oh - and I want a pony, too.

    Nobody OWES you anything. Participate or don't, and if you don't like what's going
    down DO something about it. Other than being an internet smartass, that is.

    Your complaint is noted. You think expensive races are teh sux. Great. We get it.

    Now what?

    ZB
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by extrmtao
    I love being slow. We get more bang for our buck that way. I bet those guys that win the thing don't even take their bikes off any sweet jumps. . .

    This is for the slow guys:

    #199 and damn proud of it

  40. #40
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinsmore
    I don't see $90 entry fees as being too enticing to poor people
    I guess that is one of the many reasons not to be poor. Maybe the poor should band together and sue the government for not having a program that would pay for their race or better yet, buy 'em a bike and pay them to race!!

    Maybe you could use your energy on figuring out how to earn more money, so $90.00 won't be an insurmountable obstacle in your life.

    Good luck!

  41. #41
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    Can you spot the next John Tomac?? We might never find out until we can make racing cheaper. Do it for the kids.


  42. #42
    www.mtbnj.com
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    wow! and i thought the debates about races in the jersey forums were heated...

  43. #43
    H8 H8 H8
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    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr0101
    wow! and i thought the debates about races in the jersey forums were heated...
    SCREW YOU HIPPIE !!!!! Go back to Jersey and pound sand !



    ZB
    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broussard
    SCREW YOU HIPPIE !!!!!

    ZB
    ..........
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  45. #45
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    well..in a bit

    i just needed to post something on this funny thread...
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  46. #46
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    That's right, you guessed it, Frank Stallone.
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  47. #47
    H8 H8 H8
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    Devolution

    Into random picture thread! Woot!
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    Yeah, it's strange. But oh well.

  48. #48
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    Well, this is kinda bike related. Although it has nothing to do with this thread.
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  49. #49
    Official Cooler Inspector
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    OK - I just spent Way toooo long looking for my Ultimate Thread Killer - where's Pete these days anyway?

    Here's some stuff only a select few will catch the history of...

    As Brewzard says: Into random picture thread! Woot!

    Ooops...
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    Last edited by M-U-M; 08-01-2006 at 08:42 PM.

  50. #50
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    If I find the 1999 banned pic, I'll send it to someone special. MTBr might get mad at me.



    My Heros - note.. F still has his teeth.

    Z: Into random picture thread! Woot!

    Keep it going. This is like Old Passion.

    Edit - OK - messed this up twice. That's enough.
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    Last edited by M-U-M; 08-01-2006 at 09:01 PM.

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