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  1. #1
    Official Cooler Inspector
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    Important Meeting 8/10/06 Brevard

    From: Trail Dynamics
    Subject: Case Camp timber sale meeting

    Greetings all,

    There is an important meeting on the proposed USFS timber sale in the Case Camp
    Ridge area Thur. evening at 7 in Brevard. Please see the below link for details
    from the Southern App. Biodiversity Project.

    http://www.southernappalachianbiodiv...137&Itemid=101

    This proposed timber sale would greatly effect the portion of Case Camp that is
    open to mtn bikes, to many this is known as Chuck's Loop named after Chuck
    Ramsey who fought to get this open to bikes many years ago.

    PAS needs to be involved in the fight against this timber sale and we need folks
    to attend this public meeting. I plan to attend but it would be great to see
    others from the mtn bike community join forces with rock climbers, hikers and
    enviro types in this fight.

    Woody
    Last edited by M-U-M; 08-08-2006 at 08:37 AM.

  2. #2
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    When the National Park System was originally established, it was for the sole purpose of timber production as it's primary function. I'm not so sure why this has to be an issue with people. Timber harvest is a good thing for the forest in the long term. Are they going to close the mtn. bike trails permanantly??

    Good luck at the meeting.
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  3. #3
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    I have posted a notice about this and a link to the SABP article on my Hiking and Mountain Biking site home pages (http://www.wncoutdoors.info).

    You say that timber harvest is a "good thing" for the forest in the long term - what do you mean by this? It may be a "good thing" in many ways but - the forest that is harvested is destroyed. The problem with this sale, in my opinion, is that it takes place in an area that is so heavily used by recreationalists. Also - from my research - timber harvesting only ends up costing taxpayers money. Lots of research to do...hope to see lots of people at the meeting and lots of thoughtful replies here.

  4. #4
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    Well, first of all, it promotes a healthier forest in the long term by removing less desirable trees. By opening up the canopy, diversity is expanded within the area. Animal and plant species that don't dwell within the forested area can move into this area to forage and live.

    Removing the trees before they become old and diseased (adding to an areas fuel load) makes the forest less likely to catch fire and require less maintenance such as perscribed burning.

    I can't argue the economical stance that you've posed. This has been a point in question for a very long time and is nothing new. The National Forest System has always been a cheap source of wood for harvesters and the gov't does not make a killer profit from it's sale of wood. But you have to look at the primary purpose of the land.

    It sucks that the area will be temporarily off limits for our use, but is it really worth fighting over? Personally, my arguement would be not so much the sale and harvest of the wood, but whether or not the Best Management Practices outlined in the Forestry BMP Manual are followed. As a flyfisherman, I'd hate to see the water resources in that area impacted.

    Sorry if you though my general statements were not thoughful.
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  5. #5
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    No, good comments - they were good food for thought. Another concern I had was that there are several streams in the area - and as you mention as a fly fisherman this would be a concern to you too. I think the FS has tended to underestimate the impact to streams in logging projects in the past but seems to be looking at that more realistically now. Some beautiful streams are in that area and although I don't fish, I enjoy the streams - and waterfalls - such as the one on Log Hollow branch. That old road was becoming a nice "trail" to get there but is supposed to become a full fledged logging road again for this project.

  6. #6
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    I hope your group is well respresented at the meeting and the USFS is listening to you. Good luck and keep us posted.
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  7. #7
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    Very busy, so here's a few quick reasons to be opposed to the particulars of this specific logging project:

    1) Potentially, an existing trail will be used for extraction(Seinard Ridge). This will essentially elimiate this corridor as a trail.
    2) The logging area lies directly in the viewshed of Looking Glass Rock and the Parkway- the proposed harvest methods would leave some pretty ugly scars from these two locations, so rock climbers and Parkway users are pretty strongly against this.
    3) The area is very close to some wilderness areas and some environmental groups feel this proximity should be taken into account in terms of not "disturbing" the forest.
    4) There are several large creeks within the project and although the proposal does argue there will be minimal sedimentation/run-off into the creeks, they are going to have drive heavy equipment in for extraction and are also going to use herbicides to remove invasive species, so hard to see how that does not produce significant run-off, and finally
    5) Several two-track old roads are going to be re-designated as Linear Wildlife Openings. This essentially makes them unaccessible for mountain biking and/or hiking. Furthermore, LWO's have proven to be unsustainable because while they do provide the transition environments that a lot of wildlike needs (turkey esp), the fact that it is a road used for extraction and then left unmaintained often leads to gross erosion and gullying on the opening, leading to further sedimentation downstream.

    So, while I agree, that properly managed timber harvests can be good for the health of a forest, it is questionable if that is the case here- hence the reason for a public meeting. Answer the questions, show us how this project is good. Further information will be posted in the Pisgah Area SORBA news letter when available.
    Thanks, Mike

  8. #8
    Kudzu
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    Two Words:

    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd
    Well, first of all, it promotes a healthier forest in the long term by removing less desirable trees. By opening up the canopy, diversity is expanded within the area.
    Bent Creek

    That was the last time I heard the FS mention "Timber Sale".
    But we dont need to worry, the forest is healthier now & it looks fantastic.
    Extra Bonus, they used really big gravel...man it makes those hills easy to climb.
    Erosion, nah! I didnt see a single bare spot...just miles of gravel.

    Just think of all that valuable research being done in that lush green forest,
    it boggles the mind


    Link to the FS site
    http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/nepa/july_2006_sopa.pdf
    scroll to page 25
    Last edited by Kudzu; 08-11-2006 at 12:06 PM.

  9. #9
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    What Kudzu is tongue-in-cheek saying is actually a very imporatnt point- often, it's the extraction and not the harvest that creates either damage or a negative recreational impact. These are the issues that need to be looked at carefully...
    Mike

  10. #10
    pronounced may-duh
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    Like just about everything: The devil is in the details.

    Mama says foolsball is the devil!

  11. #11
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    Haha! I thought it was Vicki Valencort.
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  12. #12
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kudzu
    Bent Creek

    That was the last time I heard the FS mention "Timber Sale".
    But we dont need to worry, the forest is healthier now & it looks fantastic.
    Extra Bonus, they used really big gravel...man it makes those hills easy to climb.
    Erosion, nah! I didnt see a single bare spot...just miles of gravel.

    Just think of all that valuable research being done in that lush green forest,
    it boggles the mind

    That gravel (railroad ballast)does suck, but is that a good example??? When I rode there a couple weeks ago I didn't see any evidence of slash being left behind as ground cover either. I'm GUESSING they didn't have a better alternative to stabilize the roads. But who knows, maybe that's the research part...???
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  13. #13
    Official Cooler Inspector
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    Had to work till 7:30 in Asheville. Anyone from up this way go and have a report?

    Thanks

  14. #14
    mtbr member
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    I was there- very busy at work, so I'm going to make two points only:

    1) If you want to comment on this subject, please go to the Pisgah District home page (Do a search on Pisgah National forest, no time t find and post link) and look at the scoping document. There will be a link for comments- all comments are due by 8/14.
    2) People should come to these meetings- they are highly educational about first how the process works and secondly how the community responds. Furthermore, over 1/2 the representation there were hunters who are extremely pro-this project and pretty much pro-logging- we're talking about people just short of yelling "Leave the forest service alone to do their jobs, stop hassling them, ya darn hippies" being the primary representation.

    I don't care how you feel about logging, but it is our job as concerned citizens and forest users to let the FS know how we feel and it part of their jobs to listen to us. Randy Burgess (the district ranger) is the first to say this.
    Thanks,
    Mike

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