Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    495

    Flat Laurel trail work??

    Rode Flat Laurel this past Saturday. I haven't been to Bent Creek since the "trail work" was done, but I have a feeling from the descriptions that the same crew that did Bent Creek must have done the work to Flat Laurel. What a crime to waste such great trails.
    c

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,082
    “Rode Flat Laurel this past Saturday. I haven't been to Bent Creek since the "trail work" was done, but I have a feeling from the descriptions that the same crew that did Bent Creek must have done the work to Flat Laurel. What a crime to waste such great trails.”

    Carter1,

    Don’t know if we have ever met, but your email warrants a response from me.

    Trail Dynamics is the one doing the work on Flat L. Creek trail. Yes, we did some of the recent work in Bent Creek including the Greens Lick trail which seems to be a favorite among many riders, from beginners all the way up to the hucking crowd. Much of the recent work in Bent Creek was not done by us but instead by a USFS crew.

    To say that Flat L. Creek was a “great trail” misses the mark in many ways.

    1.Yeah, it is used as a trail. Single track, not even close. This was an old railroad bed for many years, and then a car road up until 1960 or so. The massive concrete bridge at the waterfall should be a bit of a clue.

    2. To say this was a great trail fails miserably to observe what is going on in this wonderful landscape. The road was extensively eroded, it did not have one water turn out working anywhere on it’s entire distance. Lots of water running very long distances down this roadbed has resulted in the loss of many cubic yards of soil. All the lost soil off the roadbed enters into the creek and on down into the watershed. Perhaps Carter1 does not care about clean water in this great state (and incredible backcountry area), but I do.

    3. We don’t really get much say in the prescription for each of these trail re-construction projects. We did have some influence in our Bent Creek work, and as you may have noticed on Green’s Lick we do sometimes push the envelope of what they want and push more toward what we think trail users want. In the end, the USFS tells contractors what they want done, we bid on the work and if awarded the contract we do what the sheet of paper tells us to do.

    4. This trail is difficult to work on due to the whole area being a big sponge. It is one of the wettest areas we have ever built in. There were also some endangered plants along one side of the trail for a long distance and protection of these Sundew Plants mandated much of how the work was performed.

    5. When will local mtn bikers stop looking at trail projects with only a selfish point of view (“I liked it the way it was before”) and start thinking about the bigger picture? This bigger picture includes: protecting the surrounding resources (water quality and wildlife habitat), managing use conflicts, and reducing serious safety concerns (when they exist).

    6. When will local mtn bikers step up to the plate more and start doing some much needed trail work on most of our local trails? If we all pitch in some and help improve conditions (reduce the impact of trails), then the drastic measures (that have happened on some of the trails) will happen less often. When trails reach a point of no return such as Flat L. Creek Trail, the fixes are indeed major and will temporarily alter the user experience.

    7. All of the feedback we have received from users while we are working in the area has been very positive. No, you can not please everyone all of the time but folks our crew is interacting with like what they are seeing. The USFS is also happy with the work, and that is who we get paid by.

    8. Join SORBA and get a voice. Go do some trail work and gain a better understanding of what it takes to make a trail sustainable.

    Nuff said, I look forward to responses from others.

    Woody Keen
    President- Trail Dynamics LLC
    President- Professional TrailBuilders Association
    Board of Directors- IMBA
    Certified NC Clean Water Contractor

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    35
    Well put Woody. Some people just don't see the big picture and how involved trail building can be. Keep up the good work!

    Allen

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,020
    I can't argue with your facts about what decisions go into the project, but your assessment of Carter was not only wrong, but it was not necessary or related to his comment. If you are going to say stuff like that about people, at least get YOUR facts right and know who you are talking to.

    Alan, I don't know what your excuse is. I really thought you would have taken a higher path....

    That said, I was with Carter on that ride, and had the same opinion. The factual part of your reply is helpful to me. I can't use the rest though...
    I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Confucius

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    35
    Perhaps, if either of you two had an idea of who Trail Dynamics and/or Woody Keen is, you would've just sent him a nice little note about said problems. Instead, someone had to run thier mouth off on the interent. Woody is one of the most respected trail builders in the country. Where's the respect?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,020
    Indeed.... Stating that I had an opinion on something, and then stating that his response helped me to better understand why things are done the way they are was truly sh!tty of my. My bad...
    I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Confucius

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1
    I was also with Bmateo and Carter1 on this ride, and agree that much work still needs to be done to make this a fun, ridable trail. Hopefully that is the plan. Perhaps we just caught it at a bad time as it had rained pretty heavily the day before.

    We all know who Trail Dynamics is, and even discussed their work, and some routing decisions they made while riding this trail. As Bmateo stated, the first few points that Woody made really do help to clarify the reasons some of these decisions were made. The rest of his rant was totally misdirected though.

    Everyone of us that was on that ride are active Sorba members. A few are even ex-co of our local chapter. We've all done our share of local trailwork, although in our section of the state, there are far less environmental concerns to worry with than in a National Forest. The "big picture" (which we apparently don't see) centers more around permission to use land than anything else. Right Alan?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,082
    Greetings all,

    I am in the Miami airport, on my way to Charlotte coming back from Cayman Islands and some work down there. We may bring the great sport of mtn biking to the islands, which would be really cool.

    My intent was no at all to offend Carter1 (or anyone else). I re read my post and the only part of it that may have been offending (again, not intended) was where I stated that I was concerned about water and perhaps others reading this were not. I would like to think that all mtn bikers in our area are in fact concerned about preventing trail erosion and thereby degrading water quality, I am however not that niave.

    Though the folks posting response may in fact be SORBA members (or another club from outside the area), there are folks reading this forum whop are not part of the mtn bike advocacy movement and have never contributed any sweat equity to the trails they ride.

    My post was really not directed at Cart1 (still don't know that is really), but instead to all the complacent riders in and out of our area (but whom still ride WNC trails) who only complain and never really do more than complain.

    I now realize that most everyone reading this and part of the MTBR "family" are in fact pretty plugged in and are helping out in some way.

    Again, my intent was not one of insult. It was intended to point out that there are many things that go on in any given trail contract (or volunteer project) and sometimes we as the contractor don't always have complete controll over what we do.

    Woody

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •