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  1. #1
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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Does anyone know when the trail from Briery Fork to Turkey Knob Road will open? Thanks

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    Re: Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Soon.... It is finished but my guess is they are waiting for a few days without multiple inches of rain.
    He/she who works the trails does so in their own image.

    Speed just slows me down...

  3. #3
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    What is it like?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  4. #4
    spoke
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    looks machined and probably a 'hole lot better than joanna rd!

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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Of course it's machined.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo98 View Post
    looks machined and probably a 'hole lot better than joanna rd!
    Is that a complaint?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  7. #7
    spoke
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    no - i love ridgeline and reasonover! i cant wait to ride it. joanna is just not super fun either way...it is a means to an end

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    Ok, it seems when people throw the term "machine cut" around it is usually a complaint.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  9. #9
    spoke
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    i love it - reminds me of out west

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    I like a mix of stuff for different reasons but Ridgeline is an awesome trail.
    Try Airstrip if you have not. It is about as fun as Ridgeline with a nice rock jump towards the end.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  11. #11
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    Where is it?

  12. #12
    spoke
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    looks like it will connect briery branch and turkey knob rd

  13. #13
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    Re: Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Its fine, as in not great or anything special. It is fun, but not challenging or technical in anyway, IMHO. As in way less fun than say Ridge line, Jim Branch, or Airport.

    A typical example of what you are going to get with contracting by the lowest bid. You can't expect a contractor to put a lot of time and effort into something when there's no money in it. The name of the game is "How fast can we get this done (in our back yard), and go make a living somewhere else".

    Big improvement over Pinnacle Mountain rd.
    He/she who works the trails does so in their own image.

    Speed just slows me down...

  14. #14
    Big Mac
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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Who was the contractor?

  15. #15
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    Saturday!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lobo98 View Post
    Does anyone know when the trail from Briery Fork to Turkey Knob Road will open? Thanks
    The connector between Turkey Knob Road and Briery Fork Trail on DSRF officially opens Saturday, June 1, as part of the DuPont Trails Day celebration. DSRF staff will host a ribbon cutting for several new trail segments Saturday at 10:00 am at the High Falls parking lot. The new trails being celebrated include: 1. The foot-travel-only High Falls/Triple Falls connector from the Visitors Center (slated to open July 1) to High Falls and Triple Falls Roads. 2. Relocation work on Grassy Creek Trail done by volunteers (top 1/4 mile) and by Long Cane Trails (middle 1/4 mile). 3. Short relo on Grassy Meadow Trail by Long Cane Trails. 4. The aforementioned new connector by Long Cane Trails...

    Turkey Knob Road (existing) and the connector (new) will be mapped as a single trail called Turkey Knob Trail. Parts of the existing road may see road-to-trail conversion in future Forest projects. Having ridden and walked the connector as part of my Friends of DuPont Forest Trails Committee duties (tough duty--we gotta inspect the work, you know!) I feel it's a great addition to the Forest and will shift some bike and equestrian use to the south side of the Forest.

    A suggested first visit to the new connector is: Park at Fawn Lake lot, hit Reasonover Creek, Turkey Knob Trail (including new work), Left onto Briery Fork, Left onto Twin Oaks, Right onto Joanna, Left onto Grassy Creek, Left onto Sandy, Left onto Tarkiln, Right onto Thomas Cemetery, straight onto White Pine, Left onto Hooker Creek, Left onto Ridgeline, Left onto Imaging, Left onto Jim Branch, Right onto Isaac Heath, straight onto Locust, cross Imaging onto Hilltop, Right onto Imaging, Right onto Buck Forest, Left onto Conservation, Left onto Pitch Pine, cross Joanna to stay on Pitch Pine, Left onto Three Lakes, Left onto Conservation Road, Right onto Bridal Veil Falls Rd, Left onto Corn Mill Shoals Trail (just above falls viewing platform), Left onto Laurel Ridge Trail, Right onto Mine Mountain Trail, Right onto Fawn Lake Rd, and back to parking lot. If you're not smiling when you return to your vehicle, go home and put your bike on Craigs List!!

    Have fun out there--stop and say hello to equestrians!!

    TZ
    Geriatric mountain biker and trail maintainer... ...with digital braking!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailZen View Post
    Have fun out there--stop and say hello now gtfo of my way to equestrians!!

    TZ

    I fixed it for you.


    (BTW, for those who can't figure it out, I am just kidding)
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailZen View Post
    A suggested first visit to the new connector is: Park at Fawn Lake lot, hit Reasonover Creek, Turkey Knob Trail (including new work), Left onto Briery Fork, Left onto Twin Oaks, Right onto Joanna, Left onto Grassy Creek, Left onto Sandy, Left onto Tarkiln, Right onto Thomas Cemetery, straight onto White Pine, Left onto Hooker Creek, Left onto Ridgeline, Left onto Imaging, Left onto Jim Branch, Right onto Isaac Heath, straight onto Locust, cross Imaging onto Hilltop, Right onto Imaging, Right onto Buck Forest, Left onto Conservation, Left onto Pitch Pine, cross Joanna to stay on Pitch Pine, Left onto Three Lakes, Left onto Conservation Road, Right onto Bridal Veil Falls Rd, Left onto Corn Mill Shoals Trail (just above falls viewing platform), Left onto Laurel Ridge Trail, Right onto Mine Mountain Trail, Right onto Fawn Lake Rd, and back to parking lot. If you're not smiling when you return to your vehicle, go home and put your bike on Craigs List!!

    Have fun out there--stop and say hello to equestrians!!

    TZ
    Anyone have an idea of what the mileage might be on this one? I was thinking about scheduling a group ride there, but would need to have an idea of what the total miles would be before scheduling it. My guess is around 20 maybe, but I will pull the map out and try to add it up, or maybe just go ride it this weekend to get an accurate route first.
    2011 Trek Rumblefish 1

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowMTBer View Post
    Anyone have an idea of what the mileage might be on this one? I was thinking about scheduling a group ride there, but would need to have an idea of what the total miles would be before scheduling it. My guess is around 20 maybe, but I will pull the map out and try to add it up, or maybe just go ride it this weekend to get an accurate route first.
    The 'stacked loop' system at DSRF allows the rider to construct a ride as short as a couple miles or ride all day and cover more than 50 miles... If my route recommendation is too long for your group, shorten it! Here's a shorter suggestion:

    Park at Fawn Lake lot. At the kiosk, turn Right onto Reasonover Creek Trail, then Right onto Turkey Knob Trail, Left just before Pinnacle Mtn Rd to stay on Turkey Knob Trail (this is the new 1.4 mile connector), Left onto Briery Fork Trail, Left onto Twin Oaks Trail, Left onto Joanna, Right onto Oak Tree Trail, Right onto Chestnut Oak Road, Left onto Buck Forest Road, Left onto Conservation Rd, Left onto Pitch Pine Trail, cross Joanna to stay on Pitch Pine Trail, Left onto Three Lakes Trail, Left onto Conservation Rd, Right onto Bridal Veil Rd, Left onto Corn Mill Shoals Trail (or you can play at the falls first!), Left onto Laurel Ridge Trail, Right onto Mine Mtn Trail, Right onto Fawn Lake Rd, and back to the parking lot...

    Here's a link to a map: http://www.dupontforest.com/images/m...pontForest.jpg

    TZ
    Geriatric mountain biker and trail maintainer... ...with digital braking!

  19. #19
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    Alright. Two things. First, that's not a trail. It's a road. Second, since it IS possible to build a bridge in Dupont, they should have put the bridge on Corn Mill Shoals. I hate to complain about new trails, but I would have been happy to volunteer to help build a more entertaining trail.

  20. #20
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    A bridge across the corn mill shoals crossing would have to be a massive flood proof structure- something you drive a truck across. Think the bridge across the creek at Daniel Ridge. I'm not sure what the new bridge is like, but I'm doubting it cost the hundreds of thousands of dollars a bridge across the Little RIVER would minimally cost.

  21. #21
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    So THAT'S the reason there's no bridge... I didn't realize the water levels got so high to require a flood-proof design. I learned something, today!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
    A bridge across the corn mill shoals crossing would have to be a massive flood proof structure- something you drive a truck across. Think the bridge across the creek at Daniel Ridge. I'm not sure what the new bridge is like, but I'm doubting it cost the hundreds of thousands of dollars a bridge across the Little RIVER would minimally cost.
    Build a taller bridge.

    I know you get in to a bunch of engineering bullsh!t and legal mumbo jumbo driving up the cost but I would still guess that either it could be done a lot cheaper or a trail could be built to a place it could be done more cheaply at and still reasonably connect the sides of the park without making you go through a hogs a$$hole to get a ham sandwich.

    At the very least, put rail up or run a rope across. I don't mind getting my feet wet but that crossing is sketchy no matter how many times you do it.
    I know mountain biking is inherently dangerous but that river crossing is dangerous no matter what skill level you achieve.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  23. #23
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    Back home for a week and I got to ride the new trail today. With all the rain that we have it will grow into a nice trail in no time. This, with Sheep Mountain Trail on the north side, now gives a biker two ways to connect the east and west sides without having to cross Little River. Thanks to all who made this possible.




    ~Ride More, Complain Less~

  24. #24
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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Yawn. 💩😱pave it, bridge it. Who cares?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Yawn. pave it, bridge it. Who cares?
    I guess anyone who comments on it, so thanks for your comments.

    Now get me that diver down recipe.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  26. #26
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    Rode it today great work thanks

  27. #27
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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I guess anyone who comments on it, so thanks for your comments.

    Now get me that diver down recipe.
    I will get that for you ASAP. On a side note, the Yacht club has a new chef. Have you been there lately? He's heavy on the pork offerings. House smoked bacon and pork belly. Yummy!

  28. #28
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    Nope, but I will have to stop in and clog some arteries soon.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Build a taller bridge.

    ...without making you go through a hogs a$$hole to get a ham sandwich.
    Haven't heard that one before. I'll be looking for the opportunity to re-use!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bfluid View Post
    A typical example of what you are going to get with contracting by the lowest bid.
    I disagree. They couldn't have done much better with a modern design in this area with the multi-use constraints. I think it's fantastic. It's no Farlow, clearly (my 4-year old hiked it) but it's not intended to be difficult.

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    For anyone who wishes to actually enjoy the trail

    Despite the negativity going on here, most riders will just find this a welcome addition to what will be much longer rides for them. As previously noted, it's a nice bypass around some of the south side gravel roads. But I think it's a great trail by its own right.

    Here's some photos; links to descriptions and map data at the bottom.
    New Trail Opens in DuPont State Forest

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbwnc View Post
    Despite the negativity going on here, most riders will just find this a welcome addition to what will be much longer rides for them. As previously noted, it's a nice bypass around some of the south side gravel roads. But I think it's a great trail by its own right.
    Thanks for the kind remarks--I'll forward them to the FODF Trails Committee; FODF funded the construction of the connector. As you suggest, the extension of Turkey Knob will allow riders looking for distance to connect things on the southern side of the Forest without hitting Pinnacle Mountain Rd.

    TZ
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  33. #33
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    A good intermediate loop my wife and I did with this last thursday 12.35 miles: Park at Fawn Lake area. Take reasonover creek trail then right on Turkey knob. Left on the new trail (downhill and pretty sweet baby! Nice bridge too...) Left on Briery Creek, left on twin oaks, left on Joanna Rd. (here you could take a rt. on Oak Tree for a killer technical downhill, then hit pitch pine across to three lakes, we didn't due to time) left on Conservation Rd. back to the original parking lot.
    You can do a lot in a lifetime, If you don't burn out too fast...First you need endurance, First you've got to last...

  34. #34
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    I rode it for the first time this past Saturday and thought it was great.
    Friends don let friends ride road bikes.
    http://www.facebook.com/mikebmiller

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    The trail is great to have and we should be happy that DuPont is actively building and improving trail. It's nice in that it'll introduce people to Briery and Twin Oaks.

    One constructive criticism on all new trail being built: The excavator drivers may think they're making sharp left and right curves, but when people ride it, they're straight-lining what were intended to be weaving turns. Please get aggressive with the turns and/or grade reversals. Otherwise, the result is still a straightaway.

    PS: the lower re-route on Grassy is SUPERB.

  36. #36
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    It does seem like every time a trail gets worked on in Dupont, anything remotely technical or challenging gets smoothed out or removed. The new lower Grassy is fun, but the old one made you really plan a good line and kept your attention. At the rate things are going, people will be riding DSF on road bikes in a few years. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    Friends don let friends ride road bikes.
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  37. #37
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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeridesabike View Post
    It does seem like every time a trail gets worked on in Dupont, anything remotely technical or challenging gets smoothed out or removed. The new lower Grassy is fun, but the old one made you really plan a good line and kept your attention. At the rate things are going, people will be riding DSF on road bikes in a few years. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    It's all part of the master plan. And precisely why this sort of thing should be limited to DuPont.

  38. #38
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    Have you seen the top of Johanna lately? Top notch dozer work, I guess.
    Last edited by 2bfluid; 06-27-2013 at 06:52 AM.
    He/she who works the trails does so in their own image.

    Speed just slows me down...

  39. #39
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    Wow. You people sure love complaining about a trail you neither paid for or worked on.

    You can blame the builder all you want, but those bids are pretty specific regarding what they want. If you don't like what the folks at DSF are doing, go somewhere else. There's plenty of eroded gullies elsewhere in WNC, and like it or not, you can't just "build pisgah". It takes years for trails (troads!) to look like that.

    I like handbuilt the best too, but let's be honest, its painfully slow and expensive, and much much harder to make last, especially with horses. I would know, just finished up a project with 2000 ft of handbuilt on it for the NPS in Boone. Users "opened" our trail (ducked tape) before it was ready and pretty much murdered the handbuilt stuff, while the machine built (mini ex, no dozers for me) held up just fine. I'm willing to bet in 5 years, none of you "experts" would be able to tell the difference. It just doesn't make sense for land managers to invest in expensive trail that doesn't hold up!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Mueller- View Post
    Wow. You people sure love complaining about a trail you neither paid for or worked on.

    You can blame the builder all you want, but those bids are pretty specific regarding what they want. If you don't like what the folks at DSF are doing, go somewhere else. There's plenty of eroded gullies elsewhere in WNC, and like it or not, you can't just "build pisgah". It takes years for trails (troads!) to look like that.

    I like handbuilt the best too, but let's be honest, its painfully slow and expensive, and much much harder to make last, especially with horses. I would know, just finished up a project with 2000 ft of handbuilt on it for the NPS in Boone. Users "opened" our trail (ducked tape) before it was ready and pretty much murdered the handbuilt stuff, while the machine built (mini ex, no dozers for me) held up just fine. I'm willing to bet in 5 years, none of you "experts" would be able to tell the difference. It just doesn't make sense for land managers to invest in expensive trail that doesn't hold up!
    Do taxes pay for the trail work? I would have volunteered to help work on the trail if there was an option at a proper time. I don't remember anything being posted about volunteer trail work. Aren't volunteers free? I don't blame the builder at all. It's a job. I blame Dupont for cheaping out on what could have been a nice singletrack trail. Pisgah is eroding because the trails were poorly planned and not designed for as many trail users as there are. It's too bad riders poached your unfinished trail. That really is frustrating and counterproductive, but what's different about handmade trails than machine built trails that don't last as long? Maybe you're not executing it properly. In 5 years, the trail will still be wide and smooth. Rocks won't magically appear until erosion takes place. No trail will last forever. Smooth and wide, tight and technical. It will all change over time. Saying that your handbuilt trail didn't hold up is the builders fault, as well.

  41. #41
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    Not to be entirely negative. I think most everybody appreciates more trails and options. However, calling that a mountain bike trail is like calling a rails-to-trails a mountain bike trail. I'd rather have 1 properly designed trail than 5 like this one. There are plenty of roads to ride. More roads than mountain bike trails, anyway.

  42. #42
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    Hand built trails take much much longer to compact into a durable trail tread. How many people 100-200 lbs must walk across it before it equates to the compaction produced by a 1.5 ton excavator? That's all I meant by "harder to make last". I'm not a fan of dozer work myself, but I understand why people use them. It gets more trail built for less money.

    The general public is not considerate to the durability of a trail. Build an 18 inch wide singletrack in dupont and I'll show you all the places tires, horseshoes, and even footprints are blowing off the outside edge. Not to mention all you "trail experts" would probably build half bench full of organics that would have to be rebuilt in a year anyway. Volunteers are great, but we can't even seem to get people to come out and get water off the trail...how do you expect to build miles of perfect singletrack? If volunteers were building it, you wouldn't even have a trail yet, and it certainly wouldn't be packed in, dry, and ready to ride. There are many many worse, more boring machine built trails than the one you're complaining about. Like I said, if you hate it, go somewhere else.

    Just playing devil's advocate from an experienced and knowledgeable point of view here. And you're wrong, I was trimming rhodos back off my machine built 1 month after we finished building it, AND we build it narrower than the tracks on the excavator. So no, my trails will not be wide 5 years from now, they will be singletrack, because they pretty much already are. Go look at the top of micajah trail in dupont. Built by the same builder (as turkey knob) 3 years ago, and now the bushes are so tall around it you get slapped in the face riding it.

    FYI most funding for DSRF trails comes from the Friends of DuPont, not taxpayers.

    Edit: Full Disclosure: I worked on the turkey knob trail for Long Cane Trails (as a sub, not my design or build). I know it's nothing special, but its a great connector that none of you worked on or paid for. If it was my build, yes it would look different but I think LCT did a good job given that DSF flags the trail and you are only allowed to deviate 10 ft from that line. It will grow into a nice singletrack in no time. You do realize pisgah was clearcut and you're riding on roads and rail grades right?

  43. #43
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    Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Mueller- View Post
    Wow. You people sure love complaining about a trail you neither paid for or worked on.

    You can blame the builder all you want, but those bids are pretty specific regarding what they want. If you don't like what the folks at DSF are doing, go somewhere else. There's plenty of eroded gullies elsewhere in WNC, and like it or not, you can't just "build pisgah". It takes years for trails (troads!) to look like that.

    I like handbuilt the best too, but let's be honest, its painfully slow and expensive, and much much harder to make last, especially with horses. I would know, just finished up a project with 2000 ft of handbuilt on it for the NPS in Boone. Users "opened" our trail (ducked tape) before it was ready and pretty much murdered the handbuilt stuff, while the machine built (mini ex, no dozers for me) held up just fine. I'm willing to bet in 5 years, none of you "experts" would be able to tell the difference. It just doesn't make sense for land managers to invest in expensive trail that doesn't hold up!
    Really. How dare a person have an opinion. The nerve.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Mueller- View Post
    So no, my trails will not be wide 5 years from now, they will be singletrack, because they pretty much already are. Go look at the top of micajah trail in dupont. Built by the same builder (as turkey knob) 3 years ago, and now the bushes are so tall around it you get slapped in the face riding it.

    Edit: Full Disclosure: I worked on the turkey knob trail for Long Cane Trails (as a sub, not my design or build). I know it's nothing special, but its a great connector that none of you worked on or paid for. If it was my build, yes it would look different but I think LCT did a good job given that DSF flags the trail and you are only allowed to deviate 10 ft from that line. It will grow into a nice singletrack in no time. You do realize pisgah was clearcut and you're riding on roads and rail grades right?
    Mueller--
    You probably remember similar comments (wide, boring, road, etc) from the MTBR Panel of Experts just after Micajah was rerouted 3 years ago. Now, few people even remember that it's machine work. Even fewer remember that Airstrip and the segment of Pine Tree between Staton Road and Sheep Mtn were cut in (about 10 years ago) with a Sweco 450--an 8000#, 4-foot wide trail dozer. Jim Branch and Ridgeline have also seen Sweco work. They, too, quickly had their edges reclaimed by Mother Nature. Ultimately, use patterns and user counts have a greater influence on tread width than initial construction techniques...

    Thanks for crediting FODF for funding the trail work on DSRF--they've put ~$40K per year into trail projects the past three years. Thanks, too, for your work there--last year's 350,000 visitor count suggests that many users like DuPont's trail system...

    TZ
    Geriatric mountain biker and trail maintainer... ...with digital braking!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeridesabike View Post
    It does seem like every time a trail gets worked on in Dupont, anything remotely technical or challenging gets smoothed out or removed. The new lower Grassy is fun, but the old one made you really plan a good line and kept your attention. At the rate things are going, people will be riding DSF on road bikes in a few years. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    I have not ridden Grassy Creek since its reroute. So I am assuming the teeth rattling, super fun downhill is no longer. Please tell me this was left as an option.

  46. #46
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    Re: Dupont New Trail - Opening?

    So which trail are you referencing? Turkey?

    The "new one" is properly built using accepted standards. It drains well and will need some adjustments and light reworking soon. DSF has been getting pounded with rain since the trail was started.

    Most if not all trials need additional work after they get packed in by users. And it will tighten up after the leaf drop, as usual. Then it will need to be debermed after a year or two.


    I just thought that it was an average trail that could use more character and should have been longer. I know everyone is a critic.


    I agree that trails ebb and flow, changing over time. And the rocks will rise to the surface area over time.

    Mb24

    SORBA and the FODSF have trail work days fairly often. There are plenty of opportunities to do trail work. Just ask or look them up online, don't wait for a personal invitation. And then you can influence how you and others will ride it.

    Nellie.

    Nope, its gone.
    Last edited by 2bfluid; 06-27-2013 at 04:31 PM.
    He/she who works the trails does so in their own image.

    Speed just slows me down...

  47. #47
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    I have only one comment. Trails do not always "narrow down" or get reclaimed after machine work. User pressure at Bent Creek has definitely prevented that from happening after the Frances work- as well as on Hard Times Connector and Deerfield. If anything, the more popular trails have just gotten wider.

    Now, might 3-4 feet wide be the appropriate tread width for super-popular trail systems to accommodate two-way, often inexperienced user traffic? Quite possibly... Are the trails still super fun and fast feeling for all cyclists? Absolutely.

    Chuck, please thank FODF for their tremendous efforts to make DuPont a premiere recreational destination for users of all types, thereby protecting the land for generations to come.

  48. #48
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    Stay home

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailZen View Post
    Ultimately, use patterns and user counts have a greater influence on tread width than initial construction techniques...
    I wish this was more widely understood.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bfluid View Post
    Mb24

    SORBA and the FODSF have trail work days fairly often. There are plenty of opportunities to do trail work. Just ask or look them up online, don't wait for a personal invitation. And then you can influence how you and others will ride it.
    I do volunteer when I am able to. Was there a workday for the new trail in Dupont? I don't recall seeing one, but I must have missed it, right?

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