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  1. #1
    Drinker w/ Riding Problem
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    Dear Mr. Trail Sanitizer (x-post)

    first off...this happened in SC, but i consider NC Forum as my adoptive home but i think the message is relevant.

    i know upfront that this will probably not reach the individual that has done it, but my goal hopefully/maybe one or two others that may read my rant, take my words to heart, and resist the overwhelming urge to dumb-down a trail... by removing obstacles...

    i hope that i do not come across as some holy er than thou, expert rider blasting on some newbee...i'm far from it... i'm a rider who likes to challenge myself, every single time i get on the bike.

    So today after work went to one of my favorite after work ride... started off great, started a last bit of climbing section along the dam road trail (Issaqueena), and "hey where'd the step go? a little 6in, downed tree log, step up. removed! couldn't believe it... really didn't phase me, just the thought of why would someone remove that? so i continue on, get to some nice twisty stuff near the lake... riding along and "hey did i pass the downed tree" another 4 or 5in log i loved to bunny hop to keep good speed while riding, wtf ? that thing had been there for 4 years. then another , then another gone, you have got to be sh!tting me.

    I say to you Mr. Trail Sanitizer, leave the fuggin' trail alone! and leave the trail maintenance to trained / organized groups....do some research about the groups in your area, and volunteer your services to some trail maintenance the proper way.... not get rid of the things that YOU find frustrating!

    Just because you can't ride over it doesn't mean the other 99% of us can't either... I say to you challenge yourself, learn to ride those obstacles, and if you can't walk over 'em, Do Not Remove It! , and try it again the next time you ride that trail. guess what you'll find you will progress as a rider too. It's called mountain biking for a reason, you want nice clean paths, go find a park with some paved jogging/bike paths.

    i need to get some signs printed!
    If you cant go over it, go home !


    (sign credit Bill Victor -Seenvic ) love it! kinda sad though.

    thanks for your time

    Rant Over
    Last edited by brado1; 09-12-2006 at 07:22 PM. Reason: troubles with English ;)

  2. #2
    dead weight
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    Man, don't even get me started. I've seen more trail sanitizing in PNF over the last years than I care to think about. I blame most of it on a shift in mentality and lack of common courtesy and the increase in popularity of trails that used to be on the low down. Trails are definitely for everyone, but that does not mean they should be rideable by everyone or exposed to everyone. With the increase in the popularity I guess sanitizing can be expected, but I don't like it.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
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    I've seen it in the 4 months since I've moved here!


  4. #4
    zod
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    That sucks dude......I've caught someone in the act before, that's the best. Said he was "making the trail more ridable." What an assneck

  5. #5
    Philosophizer
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    Frickin' idiots! I can't ride everything and thats what makes it fun. I had a talk with a ranger at DuPont a while back about the same thing. She said they were gonna work on Burnt Mtn. What?????? Not everything has to be user friendly. If you come upon something you can't ride........WALK IT!
    I hate rude behavior in a man.....won't tolerate it. - Woodrow F Call.

  6. #6
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    PM me

    B.

    PM or email me, I have a real good idea (still a guess) of what is happening. It has been peeving me off also, as I ride there several times a week. It is getting worse, and I have a fear that doyle bottom will be next....I am not sure who is responsible for maintenance, but if you are interested in starting our own club and trying to get build/maintain rights, let me know?

    BTW: Want to ride Friday AM or early PM.


    RT

  7. #7
    CAN YOU DIG IT??!!??!!!??
    Reputation: man w/ one hand's Avatar
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    It's gonna get worse too. PC & liabilties is part of it, the otherside of it is an over-zealous newbie sees the trail as the problem, not his/her lack of ability/skill/lack of being in shape. The more we get people into riding, the more we're gonna hear about this.
    2yrs of riding under their belt & some newbie changes/sanitizes their trail & they're all over him, not giving a thought to the way they were, back in th' day.
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  8. #8
    Two wheels are best
    Reputation: DM-SC's Avatar
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    I hear ya, brado1!

    We have had someone (more than one?) moving rocks in the rock garden section of the Spider Woman II trail at Harbison.

    I've never been able to clean that section going up or down...I get off the bike and push until I get passed the section that's kicking my arse! No shame felt (ok, so maybe just a little ), nor do I have any desire to make that section easier so "I" can ride it...
    Never be afraid to try something new.

    Remember amateurs built the Ark.
    Professionals built the Titanic.

  9. #9
    pronounced may-duh
    Reputation: Maida7's Avatar
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    I guess I'm in the minority on this but if somebody moves a few logs it doesn't really bother me. I'm not sure I would even notice. Now if they closed a trail to bikes. Or if they took some nice single track and came in with machines and widened it all out like in bent creek. Then I would get a bit pissed. But in the grand scheme I can't get worked up over a few logs here and there. Don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the ride!

  10. #10
    zod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    Don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the ride!
    uhh..... It's hard to enjoy the ride if the trail is sanitized to the point of providing no technical challenges. I don't consider that small stuff.

  11. #11
    pronounced may-duh
    Reputation: Maida7's Avatar
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    ALL the trails I ride on (except a few in bent creek that were really sanitized) offer me a technical challenge or three. I'm not the best rider so maybe I speak for the minority. Or maybe It's just my opinion but a few little logs is no big deal. It seams to me that there are plenty of logs to go around. Logs fall on trails every day. Don't go thinking I'm out there picking logs off your trails. Cause I'm not. But I'm not out counting logs either.

    Just to restore balance to the trails, I promise to add a few random logs next time out. I'm sure if everybody would just place a few logs on their next time out we would make up for those gone missing.

    How does everybody feel about gigantic logs that are just not hop-able? You know the ones you pass the bike over then climb over. Or smaller logs and branches that can't be ridden under? The ones that hang up half way so you either hike-a-bike way around them or you climb thru them. I was thinking of packing a folding pruning saw and chopping up the thiner stuff so it would at least look possible to ride over. Would this be cool? I promise to place all cut logs directly on the trail in a chalanging manner.

  12. #12
    Two wheels are best
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    How does everybody feel about gigantic logs that are just not hop-able? You know the ones you pass the bike over then climb over. Or smaller logs and branches that can't be ridden under? The ones that hang up half way so you either hike-a-bike way around them or you climb thru them. I was thinking of packing a folding pruning saw and chopping up the thiner stuff so it would at least look possible to ride over. Would this be cool? I promise to place all cut logs directly on the trail in a chalanging manner.
    If I find a newly fallen tree, if I can make it rideable with just a bit of work, I'll do it. It has to be rideable...and it has to NOT create a new place for erosion to start.

    If it's a LARGE tree (dismount and pass the bike over), I try to inform the folks who do trail maintenance for that trail so they can have it removed.
    Never be afraid to try something new.

    Remember amateurs built the Ark.
    Professionals built the Titanic.

  13. #13
    SALLGUD
    Reputation: azdrawdy's Avatar
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    IMBA vs. Opinions are like...

    Yeah, betcha we have all heard that saying about opinions. That said, there are a lot of opinions in this thread, and a thread nearly identical to this one kicked up last year on our local SORBA/CSRA forum. People got their feelings hurt, and nothing really got resolved. That old thread threatens to get started again.

    If you have a copy of "Trail Solutions, IMBA's Guide to Building Sweet Singletrack", take the time to read it. It gives great guidelines (yeah, guidelines) on how to rate and maintain trails. Goes into plenty of details.

    If you don't have a copy of it, then you owe it to yourself (if you are really sweating who does trailwork and how it is done) to get it and read it, CAREFULLY. Maintaining the trail corridor, to include downed trees and providing optional lines, are discussed. If your local group of trail maintainers wants to deviate in one way or another, then hey, they are your trails. If you have a trail that is decidedly a beginner trail, and you decide to leave an 18" log (with no notches or other means of traversing it) across the path, then you...well, whatever...Opinions...

    Michael

  14. #14
    SALLGUD
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrtaylo
    It is getting worse, and I have a fear that doyle bottom will be next....I am not sure who is responsible for maintenance, but if you are interested in starting our own club and trying to get build/maintain rights, let me know? RT
    There seems to be a local mountain biking chapter in the Clemson area that has been around since 1999 (Greater Clemson Mountain Bikers Club). Before you spend the time or effort to start your own group, you might want to touch bases with them. They seem to have several workparties scheduled this year. Their main home page is: http://www.gcmbc.com/main.html. If you go down to the 2006 calendar link, you will see the dates for work parties.

  15. #15
    zod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    Or maybe It's just my opinion but a few little logs is no big deal.
    No, you're right but I just think it should be left to the person or group that maintains the trail (I know there often isn't such a thing in some instances). If the logs are there it is b/c the trail coordinator has chosen to leave them. The problem is that often the people who remove logs are the same people who move rocks, make bypasses, etc. The removal of a log or two is no big deal but that's usually just the start of that kind of behavior.

    Now there is a difference between using a pocket saw to remove impassable fresh fall from the trail for the rest of the riders and pulling rocks out of the ground on a tech-climb and throwing them in the woods. Typically if someone thinks it's okay to remove logs they think it's okay to do whatever else they please.

  16. #16
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    There is a difference

    There is a difference between maintenance and sanitizing - a critical difference. It sounds to me like there is some of both being discussed in a negative light here. I hate to say it, but obstacles are going to be removed from time to time. If they are causing trail users to leave the established trail and detour through the woods...they should be removed. A lot of things have to be taken in to consideration when performing trail maintenance, including the types of users on the trail and what type of trail they prefer, but what we should all remember is that it's a revolving process. A log gets removed, a tree falls and another one takes its place. A trail may change in many ways as overgrowth, deadfall, and erosion take their toll. In general, trails are never 100% sustainable and require periodic maintenance - including removal of logs - to stay in reasonable shape. The argument that things should be left alone "in their natural state" is bogus - the trail itself is un-natural.

    But the most important thing is that those who actually take the time to do trail maintenance do it to the landowner's specifications, using the best established practices, such as those found in the aforementioned guidebooks, and if that means removing logs, a killer rock garden, filling a rut, building grade dips, or relocating the trail entirely because the Forest Service expects it to be that type of trail - then that's what we have to do. If that means removing only those logs that are causing users to leave the trail and leaving the rest alone- then so be it. Erosion prevention and keeping the soil in place is typically the number one consideration when performing trail maintenance. (How do you folks feel about filling in or rerouting a trail around an ever-expanding bottomless mud hole?) But a trail cannot be "just left alone" and we do not enjoy the access to the trails that we do by leaving them in their "natural" state.

    Mountain bikers sometimes need to remember just to enjoy what they encounter. Just have FUN! And join a trail maintenance crew so you know things from both ends of the argument. If the log you just learned to clear is gone the next time you ride, at least you're still allowed on the trail. Wait until the next thunderstorm - there will be more logs!

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