Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 295
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,086

    Black Mountain solutions

    Let's move the part of that other discussion that has nothing to do with rain and race pro motors to over here.

    Obviously, lots of talk about Black Mountain Trail recently. Discussion centers around whether or not it can be salvaged in any way, and if yes developing a plan to do just that. I will confer with a few others on schedules over the weekend and then we will announce Phase 1, a meeting date to go look at this trail and develop a plan. Though there will need to be a few invitees present (namely the ones that the FS recognizes as crew leaders within Pisgah SORBA who will likely carry out the work when we plan it), I want to be open and transparent in this planning phase so we will be public with that date and invite all of you to join us.

    The main focus of that day will be educational in nature, and developing a plan of attack. From everything I am hearing BM is a full shitstorm of a trail right now (maybe a desired trail experience, but full on eroded nightmare and having high impact on natural resources).

    We will set up a shuttle and walk any or all of what we need to be looking at. I am thinking a Sat. in the next several weeks for this first phase site visit. After that day, we can set a date to begin what sounds like one hell of a challenge.

    More details early next week.

    Woody

  2. #2
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    153
    Oh course we'll have to be on your schedule because we know you only consider that.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,086
    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    Oh course we'll have to be on your schedule because we know you only consider that.
    Well yes, it would be hard for me to host this while I am in AZ for work Feb 20-25.

  4. #4
    drunken pirate
    Reputation: driftwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,414
    Not 2/15 please.

    We can talk about it all we want (and have already discussed it ad nauseam) but eventually what needs to happen is people need to go up there with shovels and rakes, pulaski and mcloeds, mattocks and pick axes and start moving dirt around.

    Drains need to be opened. More drains need to be installed. A 'line' for mountain bikes needs to be defined. The corridor needs to be narrowed to keep riders on that line.

    The trail's alignment is poor for long stretches. We cannot move that corridor and need to be willing to work within it, even if it doesn't fit our definition of what a trail should look like. Grade dips won't work on those grades in those alignments. More waterbars are going to need to be installed.

    It would be a lot of work.

    A note about the corridor: Last time I was up there - a few weeks ago - I noticed recent chain saw triming coming up from Pressley Gap. The trail had been made even wider giving mountain bikers even more room to leave the trail and increase the erosion. If you give mountain bikers a way to ride around any sort of obstacle they will take it. Riding around waterbars defeats their purpose and is a big part of the problem with Black mtn. trail.
    More Trails, Not Less

    Adventures in Pisgah

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    216
    Subbed this thread. Look forward to helping with this project and putting some faces to names.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snototter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Let's move the part of that other discussion that has nothing to do with rain and race pro motors to over here.

    Obviously, lots of talk about Black Mountain Trail recently. Discussion centers around whether or not it can be salvaged in any way, and if yes developing a plan to do just that. I will confer with a few others on schedules over the weekend and then we will announce Phase 1, a meeting date to go look at this trail and develop a plan. Though there will need to be a few invitees present (namely the ones that the FS recognizes as crew leaders within Pisgah SORBA who will likely carry out the work when we plan it), I want to be open and transparent in this planning phase so we will be public with that date and invite all of you to join us.

    The main focus of that day will be educational in nature, and developing a plan of attack. From everything I am hearing BM is a full shitstorm of a trail right now (maybe a desired trail experience, but full on eroded nightmare and having high impact on natural resources).

    We will set up a shuttle and walk any or all of what we need to be looking at. I am thinking a Sat. in the next several weeks for this first phase site visit. After that day, we can set a date to begin what sounds like one hell of a challenge.

    More details early next week.

    Woody

    Just wind 'em up and let him loose! You the man Woody!

    Thanks for getting this thread going. Looking forward to helping anyway I can.

  7. #7
    drunken pirate
    Reputation: driftwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,414
    I went up there today and took some pictures:

    you can view the whole set here
    More Trails, Not Less

    Adventures in Pisgah

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    213
    PLEASE LEAVE IT ALONE. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE FUNNEST TRAILS IN PISGAH PROPER RIGHT NOW. there are plenty of other less "challenging" trails for people to enjoy.

  9. #9
    Big Mac
    Reputation: mbmb65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,925

    Black Mountain solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by jstuhlman View Post
    PLEASE LEAVE IT ALONE. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE FUNNEST TRAILS IN PISGAH PROPER RIGHT NOW. there are plenty of other less "challenging" trails for people to enjoy.
    "Funnest"?

  10. #10
    Fence guru
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    651
    Please don't woody black mtn

  11. #11
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by jstuhlman View Post
    PLEASE LEAVE IT ALONE. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE FUNNEST TRAILS IN PISGAH PROPER RIGHT NOW. there are plenty of other less "challenging" trails for people to enjoy.
    Quote Originally Posted by supercusty View Post
    Please don't woody black mtn
    It will be smoothed/buffed/dumbeddown in the name of progress!

  12. #12
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,387
    Maybe instead of people b!tching and whining about trail sanitizing, you could actually show up and help make a plan and then come work it.

    Of course that might be too much work for you guys and God forbid you may actually learn something.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snototter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood View Post
    I went up there today and took some pictures:

    you can view the whole set here
    Whoooo doogie! No wonder that section of trail has be rumored to be erased from existence and re-routed. Would be a proud moment for the mountain bike community if that happened….NOT!

    Thanks for the pictures and the reality check!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by jstuhlman View Post
    PLEASE LEAVE IT ALONE. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE FUNNEST TRAILS IN PISGAH PROPER RIGHT NOW. there are plenty of other less "challenging" trails for people to enjoy.
    I agree. There are only a few trails in Pisgah that are of an "advanced" nature, and this is one of them.

    That being said I agree that something needs to be done up there, and Im more than willing to help out when I can.

    Im all for helping to narrow the trail corridor to force riders into the Gnar as opposed to letting folks go around it. Trail creep sucks, and if your skills aren't there to ride that level of trail you can always walk sections of it. No shame in that.

    Im also for giving my time to help divert water off the trail. Black is the way it is because of the massive amount of erosion that has been eating away the soil. While that has created some awesome trail to ride, I will agree that issue needs to be addressed to keep it from becoming un-ridable in the future.

    Its a thin line to walk between sustainability and fun.

    If any of the Trail Coordinators are available, I will be up there the week of Feb. 10-16th. to ride and whatnot if ya'll want to check it out.

  15. #15
    drunken pirate
    Reputation: driftwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,414
    lol.

    Unless the trail is relocated there is no way it is going to look like a flow trail.

    Relocation requires NEPA and that isn't happening anytime soon.

    Yesterday I actually thought the trail wasn't as bad as I'd remembered. There is hope for it yet. Lots of material needs to be moved but it seems doable. There are also a lot of rocks in the corridor to work with. And plenty of locust.

    However, if you look at my pictures it is very easy to see just how much damage is being caused by mountain bikes. There haven't been any races recently, either.

    This picture is at Black and Thrift. Look at those ruts mountain bikers are tearing into the tread:



    Also, if you look at the pictures you will see evidence that the trail is an historic foot path, in more ways than one. Any work done to the trail should have the historic users in mind as well.
    More Trails, Not Less

    Adventures in Pisgah

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Maybe instead of people b!tching and whining about trail sanitizing, you could actually show up and help make a plan and then come work it.

    Of course that might be too much work for you guys and God forbid you may actually learn something.
    I can't do any trail work until mid March according the e-mail I received.

  17. #17
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood View Post
    lol.

    Unless the trail is relocated there is no way it is going to look like a flow trail.

    Relocation requires NEPA and that isn't happening anytime soon.

    Yesterday I actually thought the trail wasn't as bad as I'd remembered. There is hope for it yet. Lots of material needs to be moved but it seems doable. There are also a lot of rocks in the corridor to work with. And plenty of locust.

    However, if you look at my pictures it is very easy to see just how much damage is being caused by mountain bikes. There haven't been any races recently, either.

    This picture is at Black and Thrift. Look at those ruts mountain bikers are tearing into the tread:



    Also, if you look at the pictures you will see evidence that the trail is an historic foot path, in more ways than one. Any work done to the trail should have the historic users in mind as well.
    This was and still is a classic weekend where the weather is perfect and everybody goes for a ride,but the trails are slop.Sure everyone will say some were fine but most look like Clay's pic.
    Bent Creek was packed yesterday.

  18. #18
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,387
    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch on 1206 View Post
    I can't do any trail work until mid March according the e-mail I received.
    Like I said in a previous thread, show up and I am sure somebody will put a tool in your hand.

    Or could just continue to be one. The choice is yours.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,086
    Quote Originally Posted by Banjopickin View Post
    I agree. There are only a few trails in Pisgah that are of an "advanced" nature, and this is one of them.

    That being said I agree that something needs to be done up there, and Im more than willing to help out when I can.

    Im all for helping to narrow the trail corridor to force riders into the Gnar as opposed to letting folks go around it. Trail creep sucks, and if your skills aren't there to ride that level of trail you can always walk sections of it. No shame in that.

    Im also for giving my time to help divert water off the trail. Black is the way it is because of the massive amount of erosion that has been eating away the soil. While that has created some awesome trail to ride, I will agree that issue needs to be addressed to keep it from becoming un-ridable in the future.

    Its a thin line to walk between sustainability and fun.

    If any of the Trail Coordinators are available, I will be up there the week of Feb. 10-16th. to ride and whatnot if ya'll want to check it out.
    Agreed. The intent of this planning day and future work is to accomplish the goals that you state here: make the trail more stable, control the serious (from what I am hearing) water based erosion, but keep the tech "Pisgah" feel of Black.

    Doing nothing is simply not an option, unless you want to do nothing for long enough (which will not be much longer) that the FS steps in and does something (and I doubt riders will be happy about those results). Black Mtn is very much on the radar screen of the USFS. Other non sustainable trails having large resource impacts are also on the radar screen of the FS and other environmental protection agencies and groups. NC Dept of Environment and Natural Resources (Land and Water Resources Division)
    Trout Unlimited, WNCA and others are all looking at recreation with a very critical eye. As folks here have pointed out, you need to look no further than all of the Tellico OHV trail system closure or the recent decision of Summey Cove trail closure as examples in which high impacts of trails forces the decision of full closure.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,086
    Several have communicated via email and phone and here is the plan for this first inspection and developing a plan site visit:

    Sat. Feb 8th meeting at 9:30 AM. Meet at the ranger station. No bikes, we will walk in and inspect as much of Black Mtn as possible. DW posted up some current conditions photos, and we will take lots more. This will be a long day and walk so bring food, water, and clothing layers. Maybe dinner and a beer after we get out of the woods, and/or join the Native eyewear party happening.

    Calling for rain right now, but way too early to really know what the weather is going to do. If the weather is no good, we will re-schedule for Feb 16th (which is the following Sunday). We may schedule that day as an additional day even if this Sat. works out for us.

    The goals of this site visit and overall effort are (but please add to this):
    -Develop and implement a plan for a more stable but technical “Pisgah worthy” trail experience.
    -Continue growing our level of respect with the USFS folks on the district but also regional level.
    -Identify, recruit, and train additional crew leaders who are passionate about Pisgah. Current crew leaders have their hands more than full. This is a good opportunity to rally some troops and finding the right people and then giving them the right tools to make a real difference in Pisgah.
    -Build respect for PAS within the greater mtn bike community.

    Now is the time to step out from behind your hidden identity of MTBR and come to be productive. I hear many folks say "I love Pisgah". If you really love Pisgah, you will step up to the plate in this process to help protect it: not just the riding experience it provides but also the natural resources that the trails run through. If you are not willing to help with trail maintenance of "your favorite trail" then you don't truly "love Pisgah" you simply "enjoy Pisgah".

    All are invited to this planing day on Sat. We want and welcome input and will listen if you show up.

    We will look at the trail (current conditions), discus options for solutions, and most importantly discus and set a date in the spring for a kick off workday.

  21. #21
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post

    Sat. Feb 8th meeting at 9:30 AM. Meet at the ranger station. No bikes, we will walk in and inspect as much of Black Mtn as possible. DW posted up some current conditions photos, and we will take lots more. This will be a long day and walk so bring food, water, and clothing layers. Maybe dinner and a beer after we get out of the woods, and/or join the Native eyewear party happening.
    Woody why not ride up there?

    I am sure you have your reasons but if inspecting is the goal, I don't see why we can't make a ride of it.

    I am sure you have your reasons, just curious to what they are.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 2bfluid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    533
    Let's hold if on the whining and the Woodification crap until you know the actual plan and what will take place on the ground.

    On the work day there will be several different crews working at the same time, you can pick whatever section of Black you would like to work on with that sections crew leader.

    If you want it to reflect your riding style and preference, you better plan on showing up and making it happen.
    He/she who works the trails does so in their own image.

    Speed just slows me down...

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,086
    Many reasons:

    -I want folks to see the trail the way a hiker sees it. Maybe we even get to experience being buzzed by bikes while we are hiking the trail.

    -I don't want folks to focus on the ride experience, but instead look at the trail with a higher level of detail and critical eye that being on bikes will not allow.

    -If we are on foot, we can talk while we walk instead of having to stop every time a problem area is encountered.

    -We can look for and flag best places to build water management structures, hard to do that on bikes.

    -We can better see (cause we are going slower) what resources there are that we might be able to use for a solution (rock in the area available for harvesting and rock armoring work, locust trees that we can fell and use etc.).

    Developing a good plan will require some sacrifices, including going for a walk instead of a bike ride to develop a best plan of attack.

    Once we have a good detailed plan, we can schedule bike rides down the trail in the coming weeks to share/distribute our thoughts and ideas on solutions, and also recruit volunteers for the implementation phase to happen in spring.

    I plan to hike all of Black on Thur. with friends. That will be a preview for me, and give some targets for us to go look at on Sat. It will also help me deal with the logistics (which some of you may already understand) of going to look at this. I may come back and say "bring your bikes" if walking it on foot and developing a plan seems like it will be too much of a time investment.


    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Woody why not ride up there?

    I am sure you have your reasons but if inspecting is the goal, I don't see why we can't make a ride of it.

    I am sure you have your reasons, just curious to what they are.
    Last edited by Woodman; 02-02-2014 at 01:27 PM.

  24. #24
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,387
    Thanks Woody
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  25. #25
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Several have communicated via email and phone and here is the plan for this first inspection and developing a plan site visit:

    Sat. Feb 8th meeting at 9:30 AM. Meet at the ranger station. No bikes, we will walk in and inspect as much of Black Mtn as possible. DW posted up some current conditions photos, and we will take lots more. This will be a long day and walk so bring food, water, and clothing layers. Maybe dinner and a beer after we get out of the woods, and/or join the Native eyewear party happening.

    Calling for rain right now, but way too early to really know what the weather is going to do. If the weather is no good, we will re-schedule for Feb 16th (which is the following Sunday). We may schedule that day as an additional day even if this Sat. works out for us.

    The goals of this site visit and overall effort are (but please add to this):
    -Develop and implement a plan for a more stable but technical “Pisgah worthy” trail experience.
    -Continue growing our level of respect with the USFS folks on the district but also regional level.
    -Identify, recruit, and train additional crew leaders who are passionate about Pisgah. Current crew leaders have their hands more than full. This is a good opportunity to rally some troops and finding the right people and then giving them the right tools to make a real difference in Pisgah.
    -Build respect for PAS within the greater mtn bike community.

    Now is the time to step out from behind your hidden identity of MTBR and come to be productive. I hear many folks say "I love Pisgah". If you really love Pisgah, you will step up to the plate in this process to help protect it: not just the riding experience it provides but also the natural resources that the trails run through. If you are not willing to help with trail maintenance of "your favorite trail" then you don't truly "love Pisgah" you simply "enjoy Pisgah".

    All are invited to this planing day on Sat. We want and welcome input and will listen if you show up.

    We will look at the trail (current conditions), discus options for solutions, and most importantly discus and set a date in the spring for a kick off workday.
    Yeah Feb. 8th doesn't work for me.

Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross
    By phsycle in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-07-2014, 10:19 AM
  2. Trail Solutions Mountain Bike Trails 201
    By donwatts in forum Trail Building and Advocacy
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-17-2013, 09:03 PM
  3. Trails in Black Mountain
    By guitarmark in forum North & South Carolina
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-31-2013, 04:49 PM
  4. Can you shuttle Black Mountain?
    By singletrkmind in forum North & South Carolina
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-02-2012, 01:18 PM
  5. Top of Black Mountain
    By DannyHuynh in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-20-2012, 08:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •