Ticked off WFO or RIP
I consider myself a fair mechanic. I haven't run into every nuance of a multi link bike, mainly because my Atomic Blue RIP has been silent since day one when I got it. It has a lot of miles, and it's been a stalwart machine.
But my WFO? About drove me crazy on it' first ride, with this obnoxious "ticking" sound with every pedal stroke. I pulled pedals, pulled cranks, pulled bottom brackets, changed out rear wheels, changed out seat posts, changed out seats, and I still couldn't find the source of the ticking on the bike. It did it mashing.... mashing while standing, mashing while sitting, and even did occasional ticking while jumping off the curb.
Disgusted, because I'd failed to find the source of the noise, I took the bike on it's maiden voyage. The noise was irritating to the other riders, so much so, they insisted on listening to the bike, some saying it was the Dorado Fork. Then no, it's coming from the headset. Nope. Just stand on the pedal and it's coming from the bottom bracket. Nope. Still made noise without pedalling and hitting bumps or ruts.
I'd been advised to check that the pivot bolts were all tight, and that none had come loose. Checked them all, all tight. Even hit them all with silicone spray.
But grabbing the bars and pressing the chainstay laterally, one person on each side, like trying to folds the bike in half, with both tires biting on the pavement, and CREEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAK! CREEEEEEEEEEAAAAK!
So I showed it to Frank, down at Niner Bikes. I dropped the bike off. A few hours later he called back and said "yeah it is in the bottom bracket. Come on down and pick up the bike, bearing kits for all bearings are $32" Went down to pick it up, and asked if Frank had checked to see if all the pivot bolts were tight. Frank pulls out a torque wrench, sets it to 65 inch pounds, and goes through both of the pivot bolts by the bottom bracket. They are through bolts. One of them tightens up maybe a 16th of a turn before the bar "breaks" at the set torque value. Of course, it's the one that's a mother effer to get at when the cranks are installed. Maddening.
That Gawd Awful ticking creaking sound is now gone. 1/16th of a turn was all it took.
Moral of the story? Get a torque wrench, get the torque value specs, and go through all the pivot points. Don't just check to see if they are tight. Hit them with a torque wrench and make sure they are in spec. Your bike, your ears, and your riding buddies will thank you for it. I've never heard a bike like my WFO with hydroformed tubing wail like this... it's like a boom box, amplifying the noise your bike makes.
And special thanks to Frank Orello at Niner Bikes. Sometimes it really takes the ears of a Pro with diagnostic skills to nail it all down.
I hope someone can learn from my mistakes, sometimes, going 95% isn't going far enough to get the problem solved and the job done.
Check those pivot bolts with a torque wrench, don't guess at it.
I'd say if you throw a torque wrench on a bolt and it turns you should remove and re-apply loctite. When ever I buy a used or new frame I pull the suspension apart - repack the bearings solid w/ a good grease, apply anti-seize to the axles, assemble bolts w/ a dab of loctite and torque to spec = long creak free life.
What brand and type of grease do you like for pivot bearings?
hmmm.....tonight my rip was making some creaking noises, which drive me nuts.
felt like the cranks...could have been the pedals...maybe the lower pivots?
I have used just about anything I had @ hand - Marine, hi-temp wheel bearing , Prep M etc. Just pack them full. Bearings are designed for full rotation @ speed so they are sparsely lubed from the factory.
Originally Posted by RandyBoy
Originally Posted by cracksandracks.com
Give it the lateral foot test on the chain stay arms, takes two of you, one on each side to do it. Give it a push with your shoe or boot while holding the handlebars and bike at a 45 * lean to the pavement. Switch sides. Does it creak or groan? Loosed bearings in their fittings or they are backing out. Torque to spec.
Yep... and here is what I'd do... pull the cranks, cause you're going to want to regrease the threads anyways, and repack the bearings, like Keen said..
Then pull both of the sets of red caps off on the bottom bracket, repack the bearings there with grease, you gently pry the colored covers up with a fine pick, without puncturing or damaging the rubber dust covers, and repack with grease. Blue Loctite the bolts, and cinch tight to 65 inch pounds. Then reinstall the outboard bearings, then install and torque to spec the crank arms.
Seems so strange, I've ridden at least 5000 miles on my RIP, and never had a peep or creak out of any of the suspension bearings. Pulled my Fox RP23 to press in a new top bushing by the rocker, and checked the swing arm bearings, still smooth and silent.
Every bike is with it's own personality.
"42 lbs and climbing!"
My WFO made it 8 months with many wet rides before it started talking back to me. I spent a few hours hunting down all my creaks. I had misc creaking pivots and a creaking headset. I always slick up contacting surfaces with a little grease before putting them together. Even the snuggest fitting items can creak if left dry. Throw in the large hydroformed tubes and it resonates all over.
RB, you talk about putting side load on the frame as if your trying to fold it in half. I use that tecnique as well. After cleaning and lubing all my pivots I still had a creak. Found it to be the headset but damn sure it was coming from the BB.
My friend and I have had this happen when we first got our WFO's. I initially thought it was the pivots but we norrowed it down to the main noise being the Kind Shock seatpost. A little extra grease solved this part of the problem. Still to this day there ia a slight creak, mostly while climbing or when I'm out of the saddle hammering. I notice the creak more when I ride in one of the front rings for a while then switch to the other.
The noise was a lot worse when I first got the bike and the pivot bearings seemed to "wear in" after about 200mi.
Let us know if the problem gets resolved.
As stated in another thread, still had a few creaks with the torque taken to 65 inch pounds on a Saturday ride. I bumped it up to 75 inch pounds, didn't feel excessive at all taking it to that level, almost felt like the bearings took a "set" and held their ground once at that level. We will see if that solves any more of the creaking problems.
In another vein.... I've had 2 bikes now with Fox racing Float RP23 with the BoostValve feature, and both of them, the pro pedal doesn't even work, no increase in compression rate to stop almost all bobbing when climbing on a fire road. neither the Pro pedal on or off, nor the compression rate increases of 1,2, or 3 worked on either of them. I think Fox released a bunch of bum RP23 Boost Valve shocks that are failing to hold their nitrogen charge. The shock may as well be an ancient Fox Float, there is no rebound adjustment or control, just compression. No way to even lock the shock out or even feel the propedal engage.
The WFO I have came with a High Volume HV2 can on it. It's feeling a bit too linear, even running 250 psi, so I am going to try, at my weight, to find the smaller HV1 can for it, see if I can run lower air pressure, and get the rear shock to have a more progressive ramp up rate near the end of travel. A stock can, with 2.25 inches of travel, will ramp up too great, if it's anything like my old RIP.
So everyone knows, Fox makes 3 cannisters for this shock, stock, HV1 and HV2.
What really makes all of this so obvious and noticeable, is how amazingly awesome, plush, and adjustable the 2005 Manitou Dorado fork is on the front of this bike. It just responds so well to tuning, both compression and dampening. I haven't even fiddled with oil weights or shim stacks yet.
Running a Dorado up front begs for a coil shock in the rear.
Originally Posted by RandyBoy