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  1. #1
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    Are these 2 common Niner WFO problems?

    I know its old news now for most folks, but finally my WFO party pack arrived in the southern hemisphere (6 month waiiit!). Have learnt a lot from lurking on the WFO posts from guys like CaveGiant and BMJ, thanks for sharing. Some pics below.

    I have two problems - and I'm hoping that some WFO veterans might be able to guide me (also really worried the solution will involve shipping it back to the USA for repair before I even get a ride!).

    1. The rear chainstay contacts the front derailleur at full travel (I emptied the air shock). Only hits by a tiny bit, but enough to chip the paint, and perhaps deform the der. if bottomed out "for real" on the trail. I have heard about some WFO rear triangles contacting the front triangle, but that is not happening here. But the rear chain stay does hit the bottom of the front der. cage, even when I have the der. at the limit of its vertical adjustment.

    I'm wincing as I ask, but is there a way I can dremel the back of the front der. to give a small amount of rotational adjustment, just to get the back tip of the der. cage up 2-3mm? Any other ideas?

    2. The marzocchi forks have a large "clunk" at half travel. It sounds/feels like a rebound clunk, rather than a compression one. Have played endlessly with air pressures, TST and rebound settings, but the "clunk" remains. If I turn the rebound all the way to fast, the clunk is much more violent. I'm pretty sure this is not me being too fussy, as even the wife (a non-biker) said "they shouldn't make that noise should they?" - not good?

    How worried should I be?
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    Last edited by checkpoint22; 06-06-2010 at 02:41 AM.

  2. #2
    BMJ
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    Hey CheckPoint. Glad to hear you finally got it together! Looks nice!

    I know not of the Marzocchi forks at all. As far as the front deraillier contact with the chainstay, yes they appear to contact on full B/O even with the deraillier in the highest position. You, me and a few others have had this issue. The biggest problem with mine was the frame to frame contact. It was rectified with a new frame. My new frame still hit the front deraillier though in full contact, I'm now running a 1x9 set up so this isn't an issue any longer.

    Contact the guys at Niner with your issue. They originally where going to send me a new Shimano 2x9 SLX front deraillier to solve the issue. Supposidly it's got a shorter cage. I'm not sure if this will actually solve the problem though. They really need to open up the tolorances in this area a little in my opinion. Everything is within a millimeter of each other down there!!!

    The deraillier impact appears to be mear annoyance, allthough, at this price, I find it disturbing.

  3. #3
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    Thanks BMJ, great advice - I was actually staring at the XT derailleur for ages, wondering why it had such a long cage on it (and how much butchery would be involved to shorten it!).

    If there is a shorter SLX available, I'm sure that would do the trick... do you reckon the SLX would be a direct mount? I'll ask Niner and post the result here.

    I agree, the clearances on everything "down there" sure are very, very tight.

  4. #4
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    checkpoint, can't help you with the first problem, my WFO has a Hammerschmidt and there is no contact any where near the small little chainguide, but as for the second issue, my Marz fork makes no clunking at all -- have been riding it for a few months over all sorts of rocky terrain and have been pushing it hard (e.g. torn sidewalls twice on Rampages at 35psi when landing off-camber on sharp rocks, bottomed out the DHX Air 5.0 even with maximum bottom-out dialed-in on landings, etc.).

  5. #5
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    Nice to know that the Marz can handle that sort of nonsense.

    BMJ was right - Shimano make an SLX direct mount, and it looks shorter (see pic).

    BUt V02 - I like the dialectic embedded in your answer - it seems it might be time to patiently explain to the Finance Minister that the only possible solution is a Hammerschmidt!
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  6. #6
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    My main issues is different to the above.

    The direct mount is VERY high on the frame so when set up as a 2x9 there is miles of clearance.

    This means my chain is throwing when doing anything technical.

    When I posted this on facebook, Niner told me to phone them.
    Yet when I called them they just told me to take it to a bikeshop.

    So I did.

    Bikeshop says the mount is on too high.

    Wondering if this is related to problem 1 further up, they couldn't stick it at a proper height?

    The SLX is supposed to drop down further, but a lot of money to try if it doesnt work.

    On the direct mount there seems to be another section that could be drilled.

    Any had any thoughts?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  7. #7
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    Nue, nee, nue, nee, nue. Just subscribing to the thread with interest
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  8. #8
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    Thanks for the vote of support Lynx =-)
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  9. #9
    BMJ
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    The problem you might encounter with the SLX shorter cage could be chain drag in the granny. When I set mine up high so as not to contact the frame, the chain would hang off the lower portion of the deraillier cage when unloaded and clank against it along the trail.

  10. #10
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    So your der is too low, mine too high...brilliant fking brilliant.


    Any comments lynx?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Nue, nee, nue, nee, nue. Just subscribing to the thread with interest
    Dude, you need a hobby. Mountain biking, for example.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by checkpoint22
    Nice to know that the Marz can handle that sort of nonsense.

    BMJ was right - Shimano make an SLX direct mount, and it looks shorter (see pic).

    BUt V02 - I like the dialectic embedded in your answer - it seems it might be time to patiently explain to the Finance Minister that the only possible solution is a Hammerschmidt!
    The Hammer makes sense on this bike -- you will not regret it... instantly, all those concerns of dropped chains, chain suck, botched front ring shifts, front der rubbing noise, micro-managing the front der trim, go away.. but not all Finance Ministers comprehend the value in that!

    The only negative to the Hammer is that the decreased drivetrain efficiency is perceptible (along with a buzzing vibration) in the overdrive gear. I don't know what % it is, but then again, it's a WFO and isn't the right tool to be racing the peloton to the trailhead anyway.

    Folks, this bike can be ordered with a maxle 150 rear and piggyback shock -- a front derailler is sacreligious

  13. #13
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    ..........now look who's telling me I need a hobby What's your, policing me for Niner? and FYI, I had a fantastic MTB ride yesterday with my dog, cleared a couple climbs I've never done before all thanks to good technique and the Micheln XC A.T on the rear, even my cWTB hub with crap for engagement didn't hinder me .

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive
    Dude, you need a hobby. Mountain biking, for example.
    Huh Really, you've suffered all this with a properly setup/adjusted dual ring? I must ride too girlie or know how to properly set it up

    Quote Originally Posted by V02 deficient
    The Hammer makes sense on this bike -- you will not regret it... instantly, all those concerns of dropped chains, chain suck, botched front ring shifts, front der rubbing noise, micro-managing the front der trim, go away.. but not all Finance Ministers comprehend the value in that!

    The only negative to the Hammer is that the decreased drivetrain efficiency is perceptible (along with a buzzing vibration) in the overdrive gear. I don't know what % it is, but then again, it's a WFO and isn't the right tool to be racing the peloton to the trailhead anyway.

    Folks, this bike can be ordered with a maxle 150 rear and piggyback shock -- a front derailler is sacreligious
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    ..........now look who's telling me I need a hobby What's your, policing me for Niner?
    Really? You think the couple times I've commented on your Niner posts somehow constitutes obsessively "policing" you for Niner?
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  15. #15
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    Another vote for the Hammerschmidt! I won't even try to explain the differences in shifting. The best way is to go find a shop that will let you demo a bike equipped with one. It is a real eye opener.

    I have discovered that running a Kodiak on the rear of my WFO (135mm rear) with the Hammerschmidt can bring back a sort of chain suck problem. If I head downhill in one of the low gears I get a brief growl on a hard landing. It took me a while to figure out that the side knobs were grabbing the chain and pulling it against the front of the chainstay. Nothing catastrophic, but it is there.

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by V02 deficient
    The Hammer makes sense on this bike -- you will not regret it... instantly, all those concerns of dropped chains, chain suck, botched front ring shifts, front der rubbing noise, micro-managing the front der trim, go away.. but not all Finance Ministers comprehend the value in that!

    The only negative to the Hammer is that the decreased drivetrain efficiency is perceptible (along with a buzzing vibration) in the overdrive gear. I don't know what % it is, but then again, it's a WFO and isn't the right tool to be racing the peloton to the trailhead anyway.

    Folks, this bike can be ordered with a maxle 150 rear and piggyback shock -- a front derailler is sacreligious
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  16. #16
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    Thanks for the helpful comments Evasive....


    so anyone got any advice?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  17. #17
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    Oh, yeah, sorry Dude, thought you'd got it by now didn't think I had to state the obvious - QC or lack there of

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Thanks for the helpful comments Evasive....


    so anyone got any advice?
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  18. #18
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    Options:
    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD.
    Switch to a clamp-on type FD.
    Add a chain guide.
    Switch to 1x9 (then add a chain guide).

    Actually I am not quite sure why you are throwing a chain. Is it during a front shift?

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Thanks for the helpful comments Evasive....


    so anyone got any advice?
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  19. #19
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    Comon guys, as funny as it would be to descend another thread into Niner's quality control or lack therof, I am hoping to get a solution.

    So to get it out of the way, Niner has demonstrated that they have produced frames with very variable quality control.

    So does any one have any solution to this problem (apart from buying the new intense tracer)?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  20. #20
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    Here is the deal with the front derailleur. Currently Shimano offers a direct mount front der. in an XT and SLX model. Both of these are designed to be used with a 3x9 setup. We are hoping the SLX will be available in a direct mount 2x9, but so far no luck.

    The cage of a 3x9 front der. is carefully shaped to optimize shifting between all three chainrings when it is set to the proper height. This means that the front der. should be run at the exact same height if you are running a 3x9 or 2x9 setup. It may look like it is too high when using a 3x9 front der. on a 2x9 setup, but that is how it should be.

    The direct mount on the WFO is placed according to Shimano's specifications. If you are having problems with dropping the chain the best way to fix that will be to use a chain guide like the Black Spire Stinger. Lowering the front der. will only cause poor shifting.

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  21. #21
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    Hi Niner Dude,

    I have the stinger already fitted,
    The chain is throwing from the top, not the bottom.

    Or are you suggesting that I could fit the Stinger at the top, if so do you know if that would fit, or be affected by compression of suspension?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG
    Options:
    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD.
    Switch to a clamp-on type FD.
    Add a chain guide.
    Switch to 1x9 (then add a chain guide).

    Actually I am not quite sure why you are throwing a chain. Is it during a front shift?

    gerG
    Hi i missed this post somehow!

    It throws when going over bumpy ground, especially if the front of the bike is lifted up.
    The repeatable test is transitioning up some steep steps, that frequently throws the chain.

    I don't get many of them on the trail though, that is just somethign that will throw the chain. Mostly rock gardens does it, my fave terrain as that is what the WFO is made for.

    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD
    Seems a good idea, my thoughts would be to space it out further as that would have a similar effect. Any ideas how to make one?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  23. #23
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    Hi Niner dude, any advice about the bottom of the front derailleur cage contacting the rear chainstay at full travel?

    Have been to my LBS, they suggested dremelling the raised ridge on the back of the derailleur to allow for a tiny bit of rotation. What are your thoughts on this?

  24. #24
    BMJ
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    Ya Niner dude, why the contact in the first place?

    I gave up my front deraillier mainly since I only drop into the granny when exhausted and never use the big ring. Now I'm running 1x9 with a guide on top and roller on the bottom. No deraillier contact issues anymore... surprised? Maybe all the WFO frames should come with a HammerSchmidt already installed with only a 1x9 option outside of that. Screw the whole front deraillier altogether.

  25. #25
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    I know this'll give a few people heart attacks, but whoever that is from Niner who described how a 3 ring FD should be setup is bang on and loads of people try to lower it when going to a double and mess things up. I'm having no issues with my 3 ring XT FD on a 24/38 dual on my RIP9, setup high like it should be for a 44t ring. Shifts a bit hard going up to the 38, so would like a dual specific capable of handling the teeth spread between the 2 rings better - sometime soon hopefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes
    Here is the deal with the front derailleur. Currently Shimano offers a direct mount front der. in an XT and SLX model. Both of these are designed to be used with a 3x9 setup. We are hoping the SLX will be available in a direct mount 2x9, but so far no luck.

    The cage of a 3x9 front der. is carefully shaped to optimize shifting between all three chainrings when it is set to the proper height. This means that the front der. should be run at the exact same height if you are running a 3x9 or 2x9 setup. It may look like it is too high when using a 3x9 front der. on a 2x9 setup, but that is how it should be.

    The direct mount on the WFO is placed according to Shimano's specifications. If you are having problems with dropping the chain the best way to fix that will be to use a chain guide like the Black Spire Stinger. Lowering the front der. will only cause poor shifting.

    Niner
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