Results 1 to 49 of 49
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    65

    Are these 2 common Niner WFO problems?

    I know its old news now for most folks, but finally my WFO party pack arrived in the southern hemisphere (6 month waiiit!). Have learnt a lot from lurking on the WFO posts from guys like CaveGiant and BMJ, thanks for sharing. Some pics below.

    I have two problems - and I'm hoping that some WFO veterans might be able to guide me (also really worried the solution will involve shipping it back to the USA for repair before I even get a ride!).

    1. The rear chainstay contacts the front derailleur at full travel (I emptied the air shock). Only hits by a tiny bit, but enough to chip the paint, and perhaps deform the der. if bottomed out "for real" on the trail. I have heard about some WFO rear triangles contacting the front triangle, but that is not happening here. But the rear chain stay does hit the bottom of the front der. cage, even when I have the der. at the limit of its vertical adjustment.

    I'm wincing as I ask, but is there a way I can dremel the back of the front der. to give a small amount of rotational adjustment, just to get the back tip of the der. cage up 2-3mm? Any other ideas?

    2. The marzocchi forks have a large "clunk" at half travel. It sounds/feels like a rebound clunk, rather than a compression one. Have played endlessly with air pressures, TST and rebound settings, but the "clunk" remains. If I turn the rebound all the way to fast, the clunk is much more violent. I'm pretty sure this is not me being too fussy, as even the wife (a non-biker) said "they shouldn't make that noise should they?" - not good?

    How worried should I be?
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Last edited by checkpoint22; 06-06-2010 at 02:41 AM.

  2. #2
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    Hey CheckPoint. Glad to hear you finally got it together! Looks nice!

    I know not of the Marzocchi forks at all. As far as the front deraillier contact with the chainstay, yes they appear to contact on full B/O even with the deraillier in the highest position. You, me and a few others have had this issue. The biggest problem with mine was the frame to frame contact. It was rectified with a new frame. My new frame still hit the front deraillier though in full contact, I'm now running a 1x9 set up so this isn't an issue any longer.

    Contact the guys at Niner with your issue. They originally where going to send me a new Shimano 2x9 SLX front deraillier to solve the issue. Supposidly it's got a shorter cage. I'm not sure if this will actually solve the problem though. They really need to open up the tolorances in this area a little in my opinion. Everything is within a millimeter of each other down there!!!

    The deraillier impact appears to be mear annoyance, allthough, at this price, I find it disturbing.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    65
    Thanks BMJ, great advice - I was actually staring at the XT derailleur for ages, wondering why it had such a long cage on it (and how much butchery would be involved to shorten it!).

    If there is a shorter SLX available, I'm sure that would do the trick... do you reckon the SLX would be a direct mount? I'll ask Niner and post the result here.

    I agree, the clearances on everything "down there" sure are very, very tight.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    330
    checkpoint, can't help you with the first problem, my WFO has a Hammerschmidt and there is no contact any where near the small little chainguide, but as for the second issue, my Marz fork makes no clunking at all -- have been riding it for a few months over all sorts of rocky terrain and have been pushing it hard (e.g. torn sidewalls twice on Rampages at 35psi when landing off-camber on sharp rocks, bottomed out the DHX Air 5.0 even with maximum bottom-out dialed-in on landings, etc.).

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    65
    Nice to know that the Marz can handle that sort of nonsense.

    BMJ was right - Shimano make an SLX direct mount, and it looks shorter (see pic).

    BUt V02 - I like the dialectic embedded in your answer - it seems it might be time to patiently explain to the Finance Minister that the only possible solution is a Hammerschmidt!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #6
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    My main issues is different to the above.

    The direct mount is VERY high on the frame so when set up as a 2x9 there is miles of clearance.

    This means my chain is throwing when doing anything technical.

    When I posted this on facebook, Niner told me to phone them.
    Yet when I called them they just told me to take it to a bikeshop.

    So I did.

    Bikeshop says the mount is on too high.

    Wondering if this is related to problem 1 further up, they couldn't stick it at a proper height?

    The SLX is supposed to drop down further, but a lot of money to try if it doesnt work.

    On the direct mount there seems to be another section that could be drilled.

    Any had any thoughts?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  7. #7
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,209
    Nue, nee, nue, nee, nue. Just subscribing to the thread with interest
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  8. #8
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Thanks for the vote of support Lynx =-)
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  9. #9
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    The problem you might encounter with the SLX shorter cage could be chain drag in the granny. When I set mine up high so as not to contact the frame, the chain would hang off the lower portion of the deraillier cage when unloaded and clank against it along the trail.

  10. #10
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    So your der is too low, mine too high...brilliant fking brilliant.


    Any comments lynx?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  11. #11
    beater
    Reputation: evasive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,019
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Nue, nee, nue, nee, nue. Just subscribing to the thread with interest
    Dude, you need a hobby. Mountain biking, for example.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by checkpoint22
    Nice to know that the Marz can handle that sort of nonsense.

    BMJ was right - Shimano make an SLX direct mount, and it looks shorter (see pic).

    BUt V02 - I like the dialectic embedded in your answer - it seems it might be time to patiently explain to the Finance Minister that the only possible solution is a Hammerschmidt!
    The Hammer makes sense on this bike -- you will not regret it... instantly, all those concerns of dropped chains, chain suck, botched front ring shifts, front der rubbing noise, micro-managing the front der trim, go away.. but not all Finance Ministers comprehend the value in that!

    The only negative to the Hammer is that the decreased drivetrain efficiency is perceptible (along with a buzzing vibration) in the overdrive gear. I don't know what % it is, but then again, it's a WFO and isn't the right tool to be racing the peloton to the trailhead anyway.

    Folks, this bike can be ordered with a maxle 150 rear and piggyback shock -- a front derailler is sacreligious

  13. #13
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,209
    ..........now look who's telling me I need a hobby What's your, policing me for Niner? and FYI, I had a fantastic MTB ride yesterday with my dog, cleared a couple climbs I've never done before all thanks to good technique and the Micheln XC A.T on the rear, even my cWTB hub with crap for engagement didn't hinder me .

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive
    Dude, you need a hobby. Mountain biking, for example.
    Huh Really, you've suffered all this with a properly setup/adjusted dual ring? I must ride too girlie or know how to properly set it up

    Quote Originally Posted by V02 deficient
    The Hammer makes sense on this bike -- you will not regret it... instantly, all those concerns of dropped chains, chain suck, botched front ring shifts, front der rubbing noise, micro-managing the front der trim, go away.. but not all Finance Ministers comprehend the value in that!

    The only negative to the Hammer is that the decreased drivetrain efficiency is perceptible (along with a buzzing vibration) in the overdrive gear. I don't know what % it is, but then again, it's a WFO and isn't the right tool to be racing the peloton to the trailhead anyway.

    Folks, this bike can be ordered with a maxle 150 rear and piggyback shock -- a front derailler is sacreligious
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  14. #14
    beater
    Reputation: evasive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,019
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    ..........now look who's telling me I need a hobby What's your, policing me for Niner?
    Really? You think the couple times I've commented on your Niner posts somehow constitutes obsessively "policing" you for Niner?

  15. #15
    Old-newbie
    Reputation: g3rG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    379
    Another vote for the Hammerschmidt! I won't even try to explain the differences in shifting. The best way is to go find a shop that will let you demo a bike equipped with one. It is a real eye opener.

    I have discovered that running a Kodiak on the rear of my WFO (135mm rear) with the Hammerschmidt can bring back a sort of chain suck problem. If I head downhill in one of the low gears I get a brief growl on a hard landing. It took me a while to figure out that the side knobs were grabbing the chain and pulling it against the front of the chainstay. Nothing catastrophic, but it is there.

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by V02 deficient
    The Hammer makes sense on this bike -- you will not regret it... instantly, all those concerns of dropped chains, chain suck, botched front ring shifts, front der rubbing noise, micro-managing the front der trim, go away.. but not all Finance Ministers comprehend the value in that!

    The only negative to the Hammer is that the decreased drivetrain efficiency is perceptible (along with a buzzing vibration) in the overdrive gear. I don't know what % it is, but then again, it's a WFO and isn't the right tool to be racing the peloton to the trailhead anyway.

    Folks, this bike can be ordered with a maxle 150 rear and piggyback shock -- a front derailler is sacreligious
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  16. #16
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Thanks for the helpful comments Evasive....


    so anyone got any advice?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  17. #17
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,209
    Oh, yeah, sorry Dude, thought you'd got it by now didn't think I had to state the obvious - QC or lack there of

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Thanks for the helpful comments Evasive....


    so anyone got any advice?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  18. #18
    Old-newbie
    Reputation: g3rG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    379
    Options:
    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD.
    Switch to a clamp-on type FD.
    Add a chain guide.
    Switch to 1x9 (then add a chain guide).

    Actually I am not quite sure why you are throwing a chain. Is it during a front shift?

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Thanks for the helpful comments Evasive....


    so anyone got any advice?
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  19. #19
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Comon guys, as funny as it would be to descend another thread into Niner's quality control or lack therof, I am hoping to get a solution.

    So to get it out of the way, Niner has demonstrated that they have produced frames with very variable quality control.

    So does any one have any solution to this problem (apart from buying the new intense tracer)?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Niner Bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,177
    Here is the deal with the front derailleur. Currently Shimano offers a direct mount front der. in an XT and SLX model. Both of these are designed to be used with a 3x9 setup. We are hoping the SLX will be available in a direct mount 2x9, but so far no luck.

    The cage of a 3x9 front der. is carefully shaped to optimize shifting between all three chainrings when it is set to the proper height. This means that the front der. should be run at the exact same height if you are running a 3x9 or 2x9 setup. It may look like it is too high when using a 3x9 front der. on a 2x9 setup, but that is how it should be.

    The direct mount on the WFO is placed according to Shimano's specifications. If you are having problems with dropping the chain the best way to fix that will be to use a chain guide like the Black Spire Stinger. Lowering the front der. will only cause poor shifting.

    Niner
    .........

    Peace,
    Niner Bikes

    Follow all things Niner Bikes on Facebook!www.ninerbikes.com

  21. #21
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Hi Niner Dude,

    I have the stinger already fitted,
    The chain is throwing from the top, not the bottom.

    Or are you suggesting that I could fit the Stinger at the top, if so do you know if that would fit, or be affected by compression of suspension?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  22. #22
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG
    Options:
    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD.
    Switch to a clamp-on type FD.
    Add a chain guide.
    Switch to 1x9 (then add a chain guide).

    Actually I am not quite sure why you are throwing a chain. Is it during a front shift?

    gerG
    Hi i missed this post somehow!

    It throws when going over bumpy ground, especially if the front of the bike is lifted up.
    The repeatable test is transitioning up some steep steps, that frequently throws the chain.

    I don't get many of them on the trail though, that is just somethign that will throw the chain. Mostly rock gardens does it, my fave terrain as that is what the WFO is made for.

    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD
    Seems a good idea, my thoughts would be to space it out further as that would have a similar effect. Any ideas how to make one?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    65
    Hi Niner dude, any advice about the bottom of the front derailleur cage contacting the rear chainstay at full travel?

    Have been to my LBS, they suggested dremelling the raised ridge on the back of the derailleur to allow for a tiny bit of rotation. What are your thoughts on this?

  24. #24
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    Ya Niner dude, why the contact in the first place?

    I gave up my front deraillier mainly since I only drop into the granny when exhausted and never use the big ring. Now I'm running 1x9 with a guide on top and roller on the bottom. No deraillier contact issues anymore... surprised? Maybe all the WFO frames should come with a HammerSchmidt already installed with only a 1x9 option outside of that. Screw the whole front deraillier altogether.

  25. #25
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,209
    I know this'll give a few people heart attacks, but whoever that is from Niner who described how a 3 ring FD should be setup is bang on and loads of people try to lower it when going to a double and mess things up. I'm having no issues with my 3 ring XT FD on a 24/38 dual on my RIP9, setup high like it should be for a 44t ring. Shifts a bit hard going up to the 38, so would like a dual specific capable of handling the teeth spread between the 2 rings better - sometime soon hopefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes
    Here is the deal with the front derailleur. Currently Shimano offers a direct mount front der. in an XT and SLX model. Both of these are designed to be used with a 3x9 setup. We are hoping the SLX will be available in a direct mount 2x9, but so far no luck.

    The cage of a 3x9 front der. is carefully shaped to optimize shifting between all three chainrings when it is set to the proper height. This means that the front der. should be run at the exact same height if you are running a 3x9 or 2x9 setup. It may look like it is too high when using a 3x9 front der. on a 2x9 setup, but that is how it should be.

    The direct mount on the WFO is placed according to Shimano's specifications. If you are having problems with dropping the chain the best way to fix that will be to use a chain guide like the Black Spire Stinger. Lowering the front der. will only cause poor shifting.

    Niner
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  26. #26
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    Mine was set at it's highest and still smashed the chainstay on B/O, even after they sent me a warranty frame. Niner said the next fix would be the new 2 ring SLX der that seems to not have materialized yet. Why would one have to go that route to solve the issue if the bike is supposed to be 3 ring compatable in the first place?

  27. #27
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    BMJ how much clearance do you have on the middle ring? (between top of der and chain)
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  28. #28
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    Sorry man, couldn't answer that for you at this time. I've taken it all off at this point. I'll have to post you a pic of my custom 1x9 set-up. Took me a while to set it up right but it's worked out great so far. No clunkin, clankin or chain trowing to be heard or seen!

  29. #29
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,209
    Is there no way to dril/machine out the slot so you can have more adjustment? I know this shouldn't be something owners should need to be looking at doing, but if it's the only way - fool me once,shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  30. #30
    Old-newbie
    Reputation: g3rG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    379
    Hi CG.

    Based on the feedback from the Niner Dude, I would not do the drop bracket with the stock FD. It might work in combination with a shorter cage.

    It sounds like you are creating a wave in the chain that just rolls forward and unhooks the damned thing. Can you run the inner stop on the FD a bit tighter? The inner plate of the chain guide might also help. A top roller guide might kill it altogether, but more drag and noise.

    Are you running a long cage RD? If so you would do better with a mid or possibly short cage. Also shortening the chain to the minimum required for your shifting will reduce the amount of slack available for funky chain dynamics.

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Hi i missed this post somehow!

    It throws when going over bumpy ground, especially if the front of the bike is lifted up.
    The repeatable test is transitioning up some steep steps, that frequently throws the chain.

    I don't get many of them on the trail though, that is just somethign that will throw the chain. Mostly rock gardens does it, my fave terrain as that is what the WFO is made for.

    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD
    Seems a good idea, my thoughts would be to space it out further as that would have a similar effect. Any ideas how to make one?
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  31. #31
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Lynx,

    There is a second section on the mount that looks like it could be drilled. Hard to describe, it is a round indent that looks smooth. I am assume that is exactly what it is for.

    g3rg,

    I have asked Ninerdude about fitting the roller above, but think it would have issues with space and would probably break on compression.

    The rolling wave seems plausible. I cannot run it any tighter or the gear will not drop when I shift. I will try and make that more precise as my next step. This flips even with a straight chain so the wave has a lateral component.

    I am on a long cage XT at the moment, I have my eyes on a shiny Saint, but looking for low budget solutions at the moment.

    My main thought is trying to space the der further away from the mount, see if I can work out how to space it out. the further out from the frame it is the lower it will be at each ring.
    If I can get it precise then it should have the effect of lowering the der, without actually lowering it.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    330

    attn: Niner dude(s)/dudette(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by BMJ
    all the WFO frames should come with a HammerSchmidt already installed with only a 1x9 option outside of that. Screw the whole front deraillier altogether.
    Amen. The RIP is a fine product for "trailbike" use of a double or triple front ring.

    I would market the WFO two ways:
    1. Hammer with 24T + 150 rear + 36T cassette for those who need to climb (say, a thousand vertical feet at a time) the mountains they descend because the 150 rear yields better alignment for the larger cogs (since you will be using those alot while grinding up). A 22T Hammer with a 34T cassette could also work for those who are counting grams, but you will give up some speed at the straight alignment cog (around number 4, depends).
    2. 1 x 9 + 32T ring + 135 rear + 34T or 32T cassette for those who ride "flatter" (don't have to climb, say more than a couple hundred feet vertical elevation at a time). The 135 rear will give good alignment to reach the smaller cogs and therefore allow a reasonable average speed at respectable cadence rpms during the downhill.

    Niner, your marketing folks can have these ideas for free LOL... perhaps it may help with this product-identity issue. IMO, there's not enough product differentiation with the RIP and WFO, as evidenced by this thread of WFO riders with front deraillers and Dirt Rag regarding it as a long-legged trail bike. This bike is a beast, stop emasculating it with feminizing talk surrounding SLX and XT FDs. Step out of the ballet show and don't show it in ads with non-piggyback shocks. Oh, one other item, as soon as Fox or RS comes out with a 150mm fork, spec it in the party pack. Summary: Fox RP23s or Manitou 3-way Swingers , double or triple rings, C29ssmax, and 140mm forks should be diverted to the RIP.

  33. #33
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025

    My 1x9 set-up

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Are these 2 common Niner WFO problems?-tensioner-004-srk.jpg  


  34. #34
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Still loving the way your WFO looks BMJ.

    I use this as an everything bike (including a fun commuter), so need the flexibility of a double ring.

    I would also like an avalanche or an elka, but it is hard to convincemyself to spend that much money when they may not bet any better than an RP23. I would assume they destroy the rp23 downhill, but such a small amount of my day is spent going downhill.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  35. #35
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    CG, if you got your RP23 tweeked the way you like it, great. I would think though, by the sounds of your size and riding style, a coil could do alot for you. No small chunk of change though.

    Air..... I'll never go back!

  36. #36
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    My main worry is due to my dual use of my bike.
    Mon through friday I am sprinting through traffic and have it propedal 3, on the weekend 1 or 2 sometimes off.

    Is the avalange adjustable enough to move from lockout to plush with a click?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  37. #37
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025

    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    My main worry is due to my dual use of my bike.
    Mon through friday I am sprinting through traffic and have it propedal 3, on the weekend 1 or 2 sometimes off.

    Is the avalange adjustable enough to move from lockout to plush with a click?
    Not as easy or effective as that. You can turn in both the LSC and HSC circuits full hard and get a pretty firm ride, but you'll need tools to do so rather than a switch.

  38. #38
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    I feared as much =-(

    It is like my Dorado, I can set it exactl how I want it.
    All I have to do is change the oil in the dampener, move a few shims and bleed the air out of the system.
    Actually surprisingly easy to do, but not as simple as a click of a dial.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  39. #39
    Old-newbie
    Reputation: g3rG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    379
    I will have to find my stock FD and look at the mount. I will confess that I really despise front derailleurs, so when I get to remove one for good I throw it across the garage into some random box.

    Is there enough space to mount a simple round aluminum plate just inboard of the smallest ring to prevent the chain from dropping to the inside? It could mount to either the iscg tabs or to the ring set.

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Hi i missed this post somehow!

    It throws when going over bumpy ground, especially if the front of the bike is lifted up.
    The repeatable test is transitioning up some steep steps, that frequently throws the chain.

    I don't get many of them on the trail though, that is just somethign that will throw the chain. Mostly rock gardens does it, my fave terrain as that is what the WFO is made for.

    Make an adapter bracket to lower the FD
    Seems a good idea, my thoughts would be to space it out further as that would have a similar effect. Any ideas how to make one?
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  40. #40
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    I think I missexplained the problem slightly.

    The problem is the chain dropping to from middle to small, it normally stays on the chainset, but the gear drops. Quite a problem doing technical stuff with a gear too low to add power.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  41. #41
    BMJ
    BMJ is offline
    "42 lbs and climbing!"
    Reputation: BMJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,025
    CG, what I've noticed with the CVA suspension system is that the axle moves forward into the frame as the suspension cycles. This is actually putting slack in the chain heading into the crankset. Combine this with my Kings tight cassette body not ratcheting back quick enough to eat the slack I find sometimes when I'd go to put the power on, there would be some lag in response. It's possible that this is what is happening with yours and the slackening of the chain is letting it bounce off your middle ring. In the granny it's less evident, so less likely to jump off that one.

    This artifact of the CVA system led me to want to go 1x9. I noticed also when climbing in the middle ring that I'd actually loose traction under hard pedal power. I could actually feel the rear wheel lifting from the terrain. In the granny you can feel the tire pulling into the terrain. I chose to split the difference with a 28t ring up front and have neutralized most of those issues. No more chain slackening issues, traction is much more consitant and steep rooty climbs under power are more fluid.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16
    In case it helps anyone out, here's my story:

    Have a 135mm rear end, XL-sized frame. Didn't have rear triangle to front triangle contact issues, but did have the FD contact the chainstay on B/O, even with the FD set in its highest position. Contacted Niner who advised that an SLX double FD was on the way, but still no news on that. Instead, I wound up completely removing the FD and have a 1x9 setup now. Running an SLX double crank with OEM bashguard and a 32 tooth Blackspire dual slalom ring (no pins or ramps). Finished it all off with a $10 N-Gear Jump Stop (http://www.gvtc.com/~ngear/) to prevent chain drops on the inside and I'm good to go. Chain doesn't drop, no contact anywhere (even on B/O) , and chainline is surprisingly good even when I'm in the top range of the cassette.

    Agreed, it sucks that I had to go through all this trouble on a bike of this caliber, price, etc. but it works now, so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

  43. #43
    Old-newbie
    Reputation: g3rG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    379
    Oh...that's very different....nevermind.

    Does it drop then jump back up?

    gerG

    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I think I missexplained the problem slightly.

    The problem is the chain dropping to from middle to small, it normally stays on the chainset, but the gear drops. Quite a problem doing technical stuff with a gear too low to add power.
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    65

    FIXED! Both Problems - Whoo Hoo!

    Problem 1 - Front der. hitting rear chainstay at full travel
    Niner replied to my email request for advice on what to do about this. It was similar to the niner post above - "it is fitted according to Shimano spec", etc. Their advice was that the contact would not hurt either the chainstay or the der, althought the paint might get chipped. Not really a solution, but I did appreciate the reply. What to do now? Our terrain goes from long fast fire roads to chunky, so I want all the rings...

    Well, a 15 year-old son with a steady hand a dremel tool can be a wonderful thing! We took a tiny bit of material away from the back of the XT derailleur - see pic below. This gave us just the bit of rotational adjustment we needed. Full travel - no contact. BUT -

    If you do this mod, you will also need to shave down the cable retention lugs that are on the pull arm of the derailleur - other wise they will scratch the bottom of the "y" brace due to the slight rotation of the der. Oh well, first of many scratches I guess.

    It was not until we did this mod that we realised just how unbelieveably tight the whole area down there of the WFO is - you are really chasing fractions of a millimeter around in circles. But the point is, it does all work! Full 3-ring circus, no contact, no rubbing, full travel, full shifting!

    Also - for those wanting to run all rings on a WFO, be advised that a 44 tooth big ring is too big (at least on mine). It misses the little chainring notch in the rear stay, and under power it touches the chainstay. Niner should advertise that the WFO has a limit of a 42 tooth big ring - it works just fine.

    Problem 2 - Large "clunk" in the Marzocchi 44s at half travel in the rebound stroke.

    Marzocchi cutomer service also answered my email, and sent schematics in .pdf. The fix is to cut off the "tophat" that retains the return spring. More and better detail can be found on this on good4nothing's "Marzocchi 44 Revisited" thread. Marzocchi 44 Revisited

    Thanks for all the suggestions.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  45. #45
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,209
    OK, good on you to fix the problems you had CheckPoint, but I'm gona defend not being able to run a tripple on a bike like the WFO - if you need a tripple you need a different bike or are using it for the wrong purpose. The contact thing with the swingarm is a whole nother story.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  46. #46
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    It does go back up, but it puts me in lots of situations where I need a quick boost of speed for a technical obstacle and the gear is not there.

    Manually off a big drop and wanting to rise the front of the bike up suddenly get dangerous if the gear is too low, if I stamp on a non existant gear it will throw my weight forwards instead of lifting the front, nosedive here we come!
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  47. #47
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,742

    Hmm

    A 1x9 is the only solution

  48. #48
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    I saw to by joy last night that raceface do a chainguide, that runs on both the top and bottom for use with the atlas cranks (mine) was overjoyed/

    $160, $160......

    for a chainguide, who are they trying to kid.

    but they gave me a design I can copy.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  49. #49
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    I forgot to add, I have a bit of a fix...well more a bodge than a fix but problem gone.

    I have played with the adjusters and limit screws to good effect.

    I use all three gears at the shifter =-)

    top gear pins the der to the inside of the middle ring giving the chain zero lateral movement (the bash guard stops the chain falling off the outside).

    To drop to the small ring, I drop to gear to 'one' to displace the chain, then click back to middle to hold it in place.

    It works and have completely adjusted to the double shift.

    Not pretty but I have a chain where I want it!
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •