Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 56
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    469

    RIP 9 Fine Tuning and Developement Thread.

    I've always felt that my RIP9's travel felt a little short and the travel indicator o-ring on my shock showed that I was only getting 50-70%. I couldn't even get full tavel with super low pressures. I weigh 220 and was running at 120 psi and still couldn't bottom out the shock. After talking to the guys at PUSH and Fox it was explained to me that because the RIP9 has a lower leverage ratio (2:1) it will ramp up really fast at the bottom end of the shocks travel. They told me that the solution would be to upgrade my shock with the High Volume Air Sleeve. I got the sleeve today and all I have to say is that every body needs to get one of these. The bike feels like it has an extra inch to inch and a half of travel. The stroke is super plush and doesn't get that super stiff ramp at the end of the travel. I tokk it out on Desert Classic today, which I normally only get 50% travel out of the sock at 150 psi, at the same pressure I got about 75% travel.

    Anyways, if you anyone is interested the sleeve costs 60 bucks from Fox or from PUSH. It takes 10 minutes to install and Fox even has a video on how to do it. It's super easy to do. Check the picture below:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191
    Oooohhh....I want that..


    Thanks for the 'heads up'.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  3. #3
    Low speed, High Drag
    Reputation: kevhogaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    802
    This is interesting. I weigh ~220, ride DC all the time, and have no problem getting at least 75% travel out of my RIP9. I can't remember how much pressure I put in my shock, but I know the o-ring is almost all the way to the bottom of the shaft.

    On a side note, since we're basically the same size, does your RIP9 feel like it's got a flat tire, in the rear, all the time? Like the rear of the bike is sliding from side to side? Mine does, and it drives me nuts. I can't tell if it's the swingarm flexing, or the CVA rear suspension.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    179
    I've been on a rigid SS for almost a year and a half and have been on my RIP for maybe two months and I cannot get used to that feel you talk about, the rear end moving (and not just up and down).

    I've got no problem getting the full motion out of the shock, but as a shop mechanic I can get the fox sleeve for cheap, so I might give it a shot.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    469
    I don't have the "flat tire" feeling but I know what you mean about the flexyness. If you stand next to your bike and push down on one of the cranks you will notice that the bottom bracket flexes about an inch without much effort. Come to think of it, the wheels flex like crazy too. That's what happnes when you put a 220 pounder on a lightweight 29er.

    KEVHOGAZ, If you're getting that much travel on DC I think you may have too little pressure in your shock. I'm curious to see what you're running. Let me know.

  6. #6
    Low speed, High Drag
    Reputation: kevhogaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    802
    I'll check my pressure, I think I'm right around where Fox said to put it. I have no complaints with mine, but your "improved" shock, does peak my interest.

  7. #7
    Ride 'Til Your Knees Hurt
    Reputation: cycljunkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,907
    Not just for RIPs. I did the same thing for my 4" Leviathan. Made a huge difference as to how it rides!

  8. #8
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,716
    Check your hub. My stock rear hub keeps loosening up, causing serious looseness.

    And I think the stock wheels are way to flexy for me (200 or so geared up). That is the #1 thing I am on the hunt for now...

    I will likely do the sleeve, but I seem to be getting full travel.
    Ride more; post less...

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,267

    Luv my RIP

    I'm about a buck-ninety loaded up and have approx. 110psi in my shock, I get near-full travel all the time. I don't notice much in the way of flex but I did have the lower shock bolt loosen up which caused a clunk like when a DU bushing is worn. Snugged it back up with a little Loc-Tite in place and it's cherry now.

    Wheel flex could be some folks complaint/problem is suppose, I'm using light I9's and expected them to be a little whippy with the light Stans rim but, I'm pleasantly suprised how stiff they are for a 1610 gram wheelset.

    - I just wish I wasn't broken right now so I could continue enjoying it, Road bike only for the next few weeks.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    85
    Anyone know - would this impact the spider the same way?

  11. #11
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Depends... are you currently using all of your travel? If so, a larger air chamber can be a bad thing, resulting in lots of wallowing and bottoming.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    85
    Heck, i dont even have the bike yet! Just want to know the best tweaks for my incoming bike.
    Im about 175.. is the compresion ratio the same on the spider 29er?

  13. #13
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    It's not just the compression ratio, but the compression curve.

    If it's a rising rate suspension and/or designed with a coil in mind, a bigger air chamber will mimic the linearity of a coil.

    If it was designed with a falling rate (is anything modern designed with a falling rate?) or if it counts on the air shock to ramp up and provide bottom-out resistance at the end of the travel, you might find yourself blowing through.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  14. #14
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    20,052
    Hey Nate. how's your RIP coming? Stil waiting to see how you build it up and what you think.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    60

    RIP9 leverage ratio

    Here's the leverage ratio graph for the RIP9 compared to a Turner 5 spot (Turner is the green line). While the RIP9 is more progressive, I don't think it's that much out of the norm for a bike with 4-5 inches of travel. Would be interesting to hear from the Niner guys if a large shock air chamber is recommended.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
    Flight Junkie
    Reputation: IBIKEAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    835
    Talked with the guys at Push (I just had a factory tuning done on an RP23). They basically said that you only need it if you are not getting full travel. If you get close to full travel, it may cause you to "blow through the travel" Push says you don't need or want it if you get the most of you travel anyway. Find out your shock's travel (mine is 2") and if the O-ring gets 90% or better of that amount, I guess it's OK.
    ROTOR HEAD

  17. #17
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Hey Nate. how's your RIP coming? Stil waiting to see how you build it up and what you think.
    Let's see... how to not derail this thread. Hmmm...

    The bike is excellent. I mounted the Roco Air and love the way the rear end feels at the suggested 25% sag. Not quite a dw-link, and with a tiny bit of bob, but it's minimal and the important part is there is imperceptible, if any, pedal feedback. Very alive and energetic feeling, kind of like I remember my beloved Hollowpoint when I first built it up. So climbing isn't a chore and the rear end actually feels firm without softening up on obstructions in the trail.

    On the other hand, the WB Fluid 130 is a bit stiff and I'm trying to find its happy spot. I'm running at nearly 35% sag, but I haven't messed around with the compression adjustment much, so I hope to find something there. I'm wondering if I should lighten the oil or add grease injection ports or start shopping for an F135.

    The frame is a tiny bit flexy, again akin to my Hollowpoint. I wish Niner put a little more into these pivots. It's not bad, but it's not an MkIII, either (sorry for all the Iron Horse references). I did the swap out for the Enduro bearings and don't expect that made much of any difference up front, although I expect the full complement bearings will pay off as I put on the miles.

    I'm puzzled... I feared the Large frame would be on the big side. I really planned on running a 70mm stem with this bike, despite Chris' assurance that I'd be running that length on a Medium (the numbers, by my calculations, just didn't pan out). Sure enough, with my size 12 feet and the setback Maverick Speedball seatpost, I've still got the saddle set slightly rearward and the 90mm stem I've currently got mounted is feeling A-OK. I'm going to mount up my wife's 70mm stem this weekend just to be sure though.

    The stated 71.5° head tube angle measures closer to 70.5° when the fork and the rear end are at proper sag, as best I can determine from my digital level. That feels just about right **to me**, which leads me to believe others may want a half a degree or so slacker. I'll see if I feel the same once I get out on some steeper descents. At sag, I'm seeing spot on 11.5" of bottom bracket height (center of spindle), closely matching my Buzz Bomb hardtail.

    To that end, it steers pretty nicely, but I'd still like to get some more compliance out of my fork to make it "right". No comment yet on pedal strikes as I've been sticking to faster rolling terrain during these initial rides. I hope I hope I hope that isn't an issue, because my crank arms are already pretty chewed up from their short time on the MkIII.

    I haven't screwed around with the tire pressures yet, but I need to. The front and rear Rampages get mixed reviews so far. I can probably adjust down from 28 PSI to 25 or so in the front to get rid of some of the squirreliness, but I've got to work on my fork, too. On the rear, I may chuck the Rampage for a 2.1 something or other: the suspension works well enough on its own, it could stand to be grounded by a less voluminous tube of rubber.

    The frame itself is very nice. The anodized finish and the graphics are excellent, and I really dig the machining of the rear triangle yokes and dropouts. The welding leaves a little to be desired, with some inconsistencies I haven't seen on other recent Taiwanese made frames... but nothing serious. For instance, the right side of the top tube/downtube junction penetrates the head tube in three locations, while the left side shows absolutely nothing. Also, the head tube was undersized by a few hundredths of a millimeter, making the headset just a little tight going in. Lastly, one of the bearings literally pushed out with finger pressure, whereas another was tight enough that it really took some effort to remove. Overall, though, the frame is aligned perfectly, the disc tabs are flush, the bottom bracket threads were cleanly cut, and the 30.6 seat tube fit was perfect.

    Lastly, the Halo Freedom Disc rims feel downright stout, as should a 28mm 630g symmetrically laced rim... but I could have told you that from my time on the one on my Buzz Bomb.

    I've still got to mount up the Hopey (after the fork and stem issues are settled), and I'll be getting a remote kit for the Speedball.

    Edit: I need to note that the bearings were a bitch to change out, and I must have mushroomed the end of one of the bearing axles with my pin punch because it simply would not push out of the bearing. Ryan was more than helpful when I explained the problem, and quickly sent me a replacement axle. So note that (a) you can't press these bearings out, (b) Niner customer service is excellent. Oh, and (c) I think I derailed this thread.
    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 05-25-2007 at 05:29 PM.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  18. #18
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    20,052
    Nate, thanks for the derail I was waiting to hear your impression coming from a MKIII. Only thing I wanted to ask/clarify is the below statement. As far as I understand it the geo number Niners publishes are using a 100mm fork (I'll throw dumb luck and guess REBA ) so wouldn't using the taller 130 fork slack out the HA and be whats cauisin the different angle read?

    Also....35% SAG on a XCish fork seems like quite a lot to still have it feel harsh. On the Trance I get about right SAG on the rear shock and only about 15mm on the REBA in the front - geo tends to be rear biased I find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    ...................The stated 71.5° head tube angle measures closer to 70.5° when the fork and the rear end are at proper sag, as best I can determine from my digital level. That feels just about right **to me**, which leads me to believe others may want a half a degree or so slacker. I'll see if I feel the same once I get out on some steeper descents. At sag, I'm seeing spot on 11.5" of bottom bracket height (center of spindle), closely matching my Buzz Bomb hardtail....................
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,305
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Let's see... how to not derail this thread. Hmmm...

    The bike is excellent. I mounted the Roco Air and love the way the rear end feels at the suggested 25% sag. Not quite a dw-link, and with a tiny bit of bob, but it's minimal and the important part is there is imperceptible, if any, pedal feedback. Very alive and energetic feeling, kind of like I remember my beloved Hollowpoint when I first built it up. So climbing isn't a chore and the rear end actually feels firm without softening up on obstructions in the trail....

    .

    Nate, I've been looking forward to your impressions for some time so I glad you got a chance to get it put together. Unfortunately I haven't found my Rip9 to feel lively at all. It is plush so maybe I'm running too much sag. I agree that it pedals well but I have my rebound on full fast and it just isn't lively. I hear myself saying it's plush yet pedals well so I feel like I'm nit picking but it just isn't right yet.

    I typically think that if you don't notice suspension then it's working well and this bike has that characteristic. On the other hand the in the short time I had the MKIII it's shock was dying yet I still liked its liveliness more. That doesn't include the last ride when it topped out the whole time. I took the shock out of the Rip rear end and it moved reasonably, not without drag but reasonably.

    Knee issues have kept me off bikes for a few weeks but I think I'll get to ride tomorrow and will try more shock pressure. Right now I'm at 125lbs shock pressure for my 180lbs and 1/2" to 9/16" sag. I just today recieved a Roco Air for my MKIII so over the weekend I may get to ride both bikes back to back and could even put the 7.5 x 2 Roco on the Rip!

    Also, my RP23 looks like it has the mid level propedal tune. I almost always have the propedal off. If I turn it to level two it's basically locked out.

    In terms of trying to get this thread train back on track. I put a large can on my 3" Lev's RP3 before I sold it and thought it helped loads. That frame never ever got full travel with the stock can RP3. However I can't see the Rip needing the large can for my 180lb butt. I'm getting full travel with 25% sag.
    2 wheels

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,267
    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    Nate, I've been looking forward to your impressions for some time so I glad you got a chance to get it put together. Unfortunately I haven't found my Rip9 to feel lively at all. It is plush so maybe I'm running too much sag. I agree that it pedals well but I have my rebound on full fast and it just isn't lively. I hear myself saying it's plush yet pedals well so I feel like I'm nit picking but it just isn't right yet.

    I typically think that if you don't notice suspension then it's working well and this bike has that characteristic. On the other hand the in the short time I had the MKIII it's shock was dying yet I still liked its liveliness more. That doesn't include the last ride when it topped out the whole time. I took the shock out of the Rip rear end and it moved reasonably, not without drag but reasonably.

    Knee issues have kept me off bikes for a few weeks but I think I'll get to ride tomorrow and will try more shock pressure. Right now I'm at 125lbs shock pressure for my 180lbs and 1/2" to 9/16" sag. I just today recieved a Roco Air for my MKIII so over the weekend I may get to ride both bikes back to back and could even put the 7.5 x 2 Roco on the Rip!

    Also, my RP23 looks like it has the mid level propedal tune. I almost always have the propedal off. If I turn it to level two it's basically locked out.

    In terms of trying to get this thread train back on track. I put a large can on my 3" Lev's RP3 before I sold it and thought it helped loads. That frame never ever got full travel with the stock can RP3. However I can't see the Rip needing the large can for my 180lb butt. I'm getting full travel with 25% sag.

    - What Wheel & Tire combo are you using? That alone has a huge part in how any bike feels.

  21. #21
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    20,052

    RIP frame and stiffness

    Well I've seen it mentioned in a few different threads now recently and I was looking for opinions on this. Is it something only a few people are noticing and what bike's have you ridden in the past that it's compares to/can be compared to? I'll hopefully be able to form my own impressions very soon, but until then I thought it was something interesting I saw popping up and not mentioned in the 29er shootout or in most people initial impressions.

    Thoughts opinions are welcome and before you even reply, no I won't stop bagging/asking questions about a bike I don't yet have. We are allowed to have our own opinions and question stuff - that's the basis for capitalism and improved products.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    662

    I owned one...

    and its a great bike. If, however, stiffness is way up on your list of priorities or if you're a BIG guy, you may be better served by something like a Ventana, maybe a Titus. I haven't had personal experience with Lenz but it looks very solid. There's a little flex in the rear of the Niner.

  23. #23
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    ...wouldn't using the taller 130 fork slack out the HA and be whats cauisin the different angle read?

    Also....35% SAG on a XCish fork seems like quite a lot to still have it feel harsh.
    [/I]
    Yes, at face value, the extra travel should slacken the head angle. But I haven't seen manufacturers consistantly state that their published sag numbers are based on a properly sagged suspension, so I'm always suspect.

    A Reba at 25% sag = 469mm, while a Fluid 130 at 35% sag = 484mm. That's a difference of 15mm, or 0.75°, by my calculations. So yeah, given a respectful margin of error for my measurement, the Niner numbers are pretty realistic.

    I set the 35% sag as a starting point just to get a feel for the bike, and picked the compression setting (also set via air pressure) based on some info in other threads discussing the Fluid 130 fork. Clearly I've got some playing around to do, and don't consider 35% my final setting... necessarily. Depends on how much travel I use by the end of a ride.

    I feel pretty comfortable with my cockpit setup and rear shock setup, so I'll mess around with the fork next ride out.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  24. #24
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    ...I haven't found my Rip9 to feel lively at all. It is plush so maybe I'm running too much sag. I agree that it pedals well but I have my rebound on full fast and it just isn't lively. I hear myself saying it's plush yet pedals well so I feel like I'm nit picking but it just isn't right yet.

    I typically think that if you don't notice suspension then it's working well and this bike has that characteristic.
    I guess I should qualify "lively." Lively on my Joshua URT meant I was bouncing off of stuff, sometimes like a pogo stick. Lively on this bike is a substitute for "active." It's not necessarily shooting a bunch of energy back at me, but it's clearly doing its thing when I look down between my legs, without yelling at me that it's doing its thing. And Lively unlike my NRS, which seemed to hit anything bigger than a small stone and s . u . c . k the energy out of my cadence. So I don't know if we're on the same page there or not.

    Give me a few more rides to work on clarifying my impression, though... I haven't really done anything silly on this bike yet.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    469
    That last post was just enough to officially say we've gone off topic.

    Man, I thought I was anal about my setup. You're killing me.

    Cheers!

  26. #26
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    I guess I should qualify "lively." Lively on my Joshua URT meant I was bouncing off of stuff, sometimes like a pogo stick. Lively on this bike is a substitute for "active." It's not necessarily shooting a bunch of energy back at me, but it's clearly doing its thing when I look down between my legs, without yelling at me that it's doing its thing. And Lively unlike my NRS, which seemed to hit anything bigger than a small stone and s . u . c . k the energy out of my cadence. So I don't know if we're on the same page there or not.

    Give me a few more rides to work on clarifying my impression, though... I haven't really done anything silly on this bike yet.

    I'm in more or less the same stages of fine tuning..on the RIP...and I have worked out a few things. It would be very interesting if we get together and do a thread on fine tuning on the RIP 9 so that owners of this popular bike can all benefit and short-cut any problems we encounter.

    I'm very happy with mine so far, but I am having some problems with the rear shock, which accounts for my interest in the larger PUSH Air Sleeve.


    R.
    Last edited by Rainman; 05-25-2007 at 07:39 PM.
    It is inevitable ...

  27. #27
    err, 27.5+
    Reputation: AL29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,944
    Good info. I was also kind of drawn back by a couple of stiffness on the niner comments lately. Good for XC only??? More input?
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  28. #28
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191
    I'm currently tuning and testing the RIP 9 and have found no rear end flex as yet. I'm only fairly light though at 165lbs so it probably wouldn't be as noticeable to me as say, a 240lb rider.

    I'm trying to get it to flex though...


    One thing we need to be sure of....that it is the rear end of the bike that is "flexing" and not the rim/tire setup.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  29. #29
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191

    RIP 9 Fine Tuning and Development Thread.

    I think that this is something we need to be looking into on the RIP 9 as this frame is fast becoming a popular choice amongst 29'er riders.

    If we can pool our knowledge about tuning, problem finding and solutions then it would help everyone to short-cut the process of getting the bike set up nicely.

    I'll keep the thread "clean" and on-topic as much as possible.

    So...to all you RIP 9 owners and riders out there...lets have you.

    Any problems, tuning tips, shortcuts, recommendations...etc..etc.. can go here in this thread to the benefit of all owner/riders.


    R.
    Last edited by Rainman; 05-25-2007 at 10:27 PM.
    It is inevitable ...

  30. #30
    Bored
    Reputation: bigwheelboy_490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,983
    Shouldn't this be in the niner forum?
    MTBR is serious stuff.
    You never get better until you get out of your comfort zone.

  31. #31
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191

    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheelboy_490
    Shouldn't this be in the niner forum?
    It is equally valid in both forums.

    Please...to everyone...on topic posting in this thread.

    Thank you.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  32. #32
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    20,052

    Sorry to be OT, but just had to say...........

    .....Niner forum is dead as doornail. If you want any answers you post in the 29er forum or wait and pray someone ventures in there and helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheelboy_490
    Shouldn't this be in the niner forum?
    Good idea on the dedicated RIP thread. But I am curious as how it all of a sudden became a good idea to do, just when I posted the thread asking about frame flex
    Last edited by LyNx; 05-26-2007 at 04:06 AM.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    469
    I'll try to start it off.

    Problems

    1. The black washers on the pivots cause too much friction thus negating any real setup numbers until they wear in. I wanted the bike to articulate without friction on the first ride. No other frame builder uses these little washers and Ryan at Niner said I really didn't need them living in AZ. He said if I lived in the NW he would definitely tell me to keep them in.

    Solution: I took the washers out and the bike has run flawlessly since. I keep a watchfull eye on the pivots as well but everyone should do that anyway.

    2. Shock felt super stiff towards the end of it's travel. Had a hard time getting the plush feel. I tried pressure from 150 to 110 and could not find the right feel and performance out of the shock.

    Solution: I upgraded to the HVA sleeve and the bike has been transformed. Best 60 bucks I ever spent. I run at 150 psi and the bike now feels like it has 5 plus inches of travel.

    3. Flexy frame feeling. I think that it's a combination of the super light wheels that I built, my weight (220 lbs) and the flexy frame. It all adds up to a super flexy feel.

    Solution: I think if I had built up a more robust set of wheels I would get a more solid feel. BTW, the wheels are Stan's Arches with Chris King Hubs, DT Revolution spokes and alloy nipples.

  34. #34
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191

    So far...

    I have had only one or two problems come up so far with my testing and tuning of this frame.

    The biggest one for me has been pedal strikes. If I set the correct amount of air pressure in my rear shock to get full travel on the big hits, then I get too much sag and lots of pedal strikes.

    To be entirely fair about it, I ride on quite rough trails most of the time, with large roots, vines and rocks strewn across the trails.

    If I run higher than recommended pressures in the Fox shock then the amount of pedal strikes is lessened...but the ride is not as "plush" and I am only getting just over half of the rear shock travel.

    Currently, I am walking a 'middle line' with slightly higher than recommended pressure and a medium amount of pedal strikes with a little more 'plush' feeling and 3/5ths travel.

    I'm not sure if it's just the terrain I ride or whether i'm not used to a fully suspended bike again yet...probably a bit of both. The shock feels nice to ride, smooth and fairly active.

    I checked my rear triangle for ease of vertical movement and there is just a fraction of stiffness, but well within the parameters for a new suspension, imo.

    I have not felt any lateral flexing at all. I have been trying to...

    I currently don't have a solution for this pedal strikes problem. One of the things I did was to make sure my Reba fork was at the correct pressure as this can cause the rear end to feel unbalanced. Sure enough, the Reba had lost some air. I pumped it up again and got my full 100mm + travel back. This made the rear shock feel better and also gave me a smidge more pedal clearance over the roots.

    A 120mm fork would be a nice addition to the RIP...

    The other fairly well known problem is with chain strike on the chainstay where it meets the yoke, right on the welded area. I don't have a lot of trouble because I run a Rohloff Speedhub with the SS chainline, but I sometimes still get a strike from the chain on bigger landings and over some very rough ground at speed.

    My solution was to pad the area with some tape until I can get a neoprene sleeve made up to fit over the chainstay. I only need a short one about 3" long.

    That's about it for me so far. No really huge problems but I would like to solve the pedal-strike / rear shock travel one.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    60

    RIP9 and pedal strikes

    I have a RIP9 frameset on order and am a bit concerned by the reports of pedal strikes. According to the Niner web site, the BB drop is 35mm. If I did the math correctly, that should put the BB height at 13.12 inches if the wheel diameter is 29". Obviously, there are lots of other variables, but this isn't really that much lower than other FS frames
    (El Ray = 13.4, Sultan = 13.3, Leviathan 3.0 = 13.25) and is higher than others (Asylum OCD = 12.8").

    So are the published specs on RIP incorrect? Or does it use up lots of travel on sag, lowering the sagged BB height relative to other frames? Or is it maybe also psychological because it has a linkage hanging down below the bottom bracket so it feels lower (which wouldn't have anything to do with pedal strikes)?

    Anyway, I ride on pretty rocky terrain and use 180 cranks and am a little concerned by the reports from other owners. Any feedback from current owners would be great, as I'm just waiting for the frameset to be delivered.

    Thanks!

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    469
    I think pedal strikes are a fact of like for any full suspension bike. As we all know, on any full suspension bike the bottom bracket will always move in the downward direction during articulation of the suspension. Take this fact, add some rocky terrain and mix in some bad timing and you get pedal stikes. I've had a few pedal strikes. In fact, just today on National Trail I banged my XTR's on a few choice rocks that I was trying to pedal over. However, I don't feel that I get more pedal strikes on my RIP than any other bikes I've owned.

    Larry_s, I think it's safe to say that the majority of riders use 175mm cranks or shorter. If you put on a set of 180 cranks, I would expect you would get more pedal strikes.

    Just my 2 cents.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,587
    I don't own a RIP 9 but I've had my fair share of FS bikes - to me the 13.12" bb height is kinda low (maybe not too low, but kind of cutting it close for a 4.5" travel FS bike). However for New England trails (CT, MA, NH, VT etc.) 13.2" is low when you take into account sag and then suspension movement.

    I'd love to see Niner make a slight adjustment to raise the bb up closer to 13.75 or so - maybe even 14" before sag. But I guess there are no changes in the works in the near future according to the guys at Niner.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,305
    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT
    - What Wheel & Tire combo are you using? That alone has a huge part in how any bike feels.
    Both wheels and tires were on my Lev before the Rip9
    Front: Solid MikeC built Mav hub with WTB Speeddisk rim, 14/15 spokes, Rampage tire
    Rear: Crappy machine built DT 240s with Salsa Disk Rim 14/15 spokes, Ignitor tire
    2 wheels

  39. #39
    Just ride.
    Reputation: Lothar Othp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    230

    My tuning/setup experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by palmermtb
    I'll try to start it off.

    Problems

    1. The black washers on the pivots cause too much friction thus negating any real setup numbers until they wear in. I wanted the bike to articulate without friction on the first ride. No other frame builder uses these little washers and Ryan at Niner said I really didn't need them living in AZ. He said if I lived in the NW he would definitely tell me to keep them in.

    Solution: I took the washers out and the bike has run flawlessly since. I keep a watchfull eye on the pivots as well but everyone should do that anyway.

    2. Shock felt super stiff towards the end of it's travel. Had a hard time getting the plush feel. I tried pressure from 150 to 110 and could not find the right feel and performance out of the shock.

    Solution: I upgraded to the HVA sleeve and the bike has been transformed. Best 60 bucks I ever spent. I run at 150 psi and the bike now feels like it has 5 plus inches of travel.

    3. Flexy frame feeling. I think that it's a combination of the super light wheels that I built, my weight (220 lbs) and the flexy frame. It all adds up to a super flexy feel.

    Solution: I think if I had built up a more robust set of wheels I would get a more solid feel. BTW, the wheels are Stan's Arches with Chris King Hubs, DT Revolution spokes and alloy nipples.
    I've had just some minor squeaks. I cleaned up the infamous black washers and squeaks went away. I don't ride in when its wet so I may try removing them. On the plus side, during my 6hr race today, when my bike became covered with sticky energy drink and dirt, the pivots remained silent. I have noticed NO stiction from these little black washers.

    I had some minor cable routing issues, but after some trial and error, its fixed. The little cable tie doohicky by Specialized that you can get from Niner (if your bike didn't come with it) helps a lot.

    I'm 165#. I have noticed NO flex and I push this bike..HARD. Of course, there's a big difference between 165# and 220#, so I really can't speak to that. I'm running Bonty Race X Lite TLRs and haven't had any perceivable flex there either. My tire combo of Little Albert rear, ACX front is perfect for my terrain. My experiement with Performance Lunarlite 26" tubes failed..again and again. I'm now running Bonty Lite 26" tubes and have no problems. Will go tubeless when my DryX's come in.

    I feel I finally have my bike dialed in. I use most of the travel and see no need to alter the rear shock characteristics. (I run 120psi in shock, propedal off..Reba Race fork: 115psi pos, 120psi neg, virtually no compression damping, rebound a few clicks in)

    I changed my gearing to 24/36 x 12-34. Haven't used my 24t yet so I'm thinking of just making it a 1x9..which would put my bike in the 25.5# range. I tried an e13 bashguard. For being plastic, that thing is a boat anchor (200+gm). I've since removed it for racing.

    So far, I love this bike more every time I ride it. I did my first race of the year today & first race for the RIP (6hr solo) and took 2nd overall...so, it must be working out well for me.

    As far as bike companies go, Niner is top notch. Great customer service.

    LO

  40. #40
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Am I mistaken, or did a whole bunch of RIP9 threads get merged into this one? There was another thread titled "Best RIP9 upgrade", and another one titled "Getting to the bottom of RIP9 flex" (or something like that), and I can't find either.

    Anyhow, I'm going to clarify some of the flex comments I wrote a few day ago. Hell, I'll even rescind them.

    The feeling of frame flex was very noticable on my first couple of rides out. No doubt, riding only a hardtail since last July, combined with my last FS bike being a remarkably stiff chassis (Iron Horse MkIII), I think I was sensitive to any perceivable amount frame flex.

    However, I commented that I needed to experiment with tire pressure. I did, and eventually lowered my rear Rampage from 40 PSI to 35 PSI, which has managed to keep the rear end a bit more rooted in the trail.

    Secondly, after hearing a loud <i>SNAP</i> mid ride on Friday, I began checking spoke tension and observed what I thought was some detensioning. I commented in a previous thread that I had some trouble with this wheel build, and I found out why: Mixed in with my order of DT Comp 2.0/1.8 spokes were two DT Revolution 1.8/1.5 spokes, which I didn't catch, and built right in to the wheel. This resulted in some mismatched tensions, and while I don't think it made the wheel flexy or unstable (other than my 14 guage nipples were somehow holding on to the 15 gauge spoke threads).

    In any case, I found two of the right-sized spokes, laced them in, and retensioned everything.

    The initial sensations of flex are gone. It didn't disappear instantly, or between one ride and the next. It just subsided. I got used to the frame. Tire pressure. Suspension dialed. Wheel lacing. Whatever.

    Considering many of Niner's customers will come from the 200+ weight catagory, I'd love to see them redesign these pivots -- at least the main pivots -- with oversized MAXX bearings. That said, running a little heavy at about 215 pounds this spring, I have no more complaints of frame flex. I'm sure my initial seat-of-the pants assessment was no lie, relative to what I've been riding of late, but that impression has pretty well disappeared over the last couple of rides.

    Another good, hard ride today and this bike is RIPping. A very comfortable and firm climber (again with the Marzocchi Roco Air in place of the Fox RP23). Been climbing some rutty singletrack, steep fire road, and some short, dusty "sprints" -- standing, seated, the rear end feels solid and complaint.

    No pedal strikes yet, though I haven't visited any of our rockier parks with this bike. Though a couple of log hops today, and the clearance feels good. But remember I'm only running a 36T chainring, and I'll bet the tall, 130mm front end helps out.

    At 6'0" with a 33.5" inseam, the frame standover is borderline too tall (er, "just right"), but the cockpit length is damn near perfect with the 90mm stem. I'm considering a switch to 80mm (pretty sure 70mm will be too short), but I'll wait for a while. My WTB Rocket V is pretty far back in the Speedball's clamp, and that post offers 20mm of setback. And keep in mind the standover will slightly decrease, and seatpost clamp position rotate slightly forward, with a 100mm front end.

    I've settled at 125 PSI in the Roco Air for the requisite 12-13mm sag (or thereabouts). Rebound is somewhere in the middle (something like 30 clicks of adjustment total, much too many for me to keep track of). Some recent threads about this shock's bottom-out protection lead me to believe it's a perfect fit for the RIP 9 -- if you don't want to mess with the Fox's selectable platform valving and smaller, progressive air chamber (stop me, I shouldn't bad-mouth a shock I didn't use).

    The small bump sensitivity of the Fluid 130 fork can't match the Roco's rear end. I've decreased the sag somewhere between 25-30%, and have the compression damping adjusted nearly to nil (~60 PSI). The ride is still harsh over trail chatter, although I am getting nearly full travel over the duration of the ride. What is so puzzling is this fork is essentially a carbon copy of the White Brothers DT 1.2 Air that I used on the MkIII, and that fork was everything I could want. I'll contact Eric at White Brothers for suggestions.

    I was a bit concerned about the effects of the tall front end with the Fluid mounted up. It takes a minimal amount of attention to keep the front end down on steeper climbs. It won't spastically pop up like some previous 26" bikes I've owned, but the steering will get a little sideways if I'm not focused. I haven't installed my Hopey yet, and I don't feel like I "need" it, but it will work in my favor once I get it mounted. Bar ends are definitely a plus for me to get my weight forward and over the front wheel when necessary.

    I was also curious how the 130mm fork would affect the handling of the bike. It tracks beautifully! The Rampages play a large part in this, I'm sure (though I've got a 2.1 Ignitor on order for the rear). But foot down, and a little weight over the front end, and this bike rails the turns like a champ. Due to its stiff nature, I'm still a little nervous that the fork isn't going to be there for me, but it does seem to respond well at speed compared to its lackluster slow-speed performance. The bike is equally confident on twisty single track, though with my relatively long cockpit & short stem, I've washed my unweighted front end out on some fast, near 90° downhill turns. Gotta remind myself to stay agressive and keep some weight over the front of the bike if I want the front tire to go where I point.

    Lastly, the Speedball is an incredible post for those relatively few descents that warrant its use! I can't wait for my handlebar remote kit to arrive.

    Parting out my barely ridden, brand new dw-link MkIII in anticipation of an untested 29" full suspension bike from a relatively new player was a tough, tough decision. I don't regret it. This bike RIPS!
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,587
    Nate - any pics of your set up you could share?

  42. #42
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Nate - any pics of your set up you could share?
    No, I haven't taken any yet. I've been pressed for time and, frankly, don't think it's very photogenic at the moment with about 2" of uncut steerer hanging out above the stem.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  43. #43
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191
    Thanks for the report Nate.

    I was kind of puzzled about the "flex in the rear end" posts I saw...simply because I have never felt any on my Ripper at all.

    I have mine very close to being 'dialed in' now. My rides lately have been really good. I went right over the bike yesterday and checked everything on it, nothing was loose and I couldn't find a single thing wrong...except my Crank Bros pedal had a "click" so I swapped them out for a set of Azonics.

    As far as the Maverick Speedball with remote goes...it sort of grows on you...

    It's one of those gadgets that you think you will never use, but after you get one and use it a few times, you wonder how you ever got along without it...lol. I'm really liking mine, it makes steep descents soooooo much easier.

    I got a set of Stans Flow rims and I am currently giving them a try. So far they seem to be good.

    I'm still playing with the rear Fox shock air pressures, but it seems that I have got it fairly close now for my riding and trails. I can bomb over very rough sections at different speeds and the bike tracks straight and true.

    I had one bad pedal strike on yesterday's ride which stopped the bike dead in it's tracks on a large root which lies across the trail. The root is about 6" high and I miss-timed my pedal-stroke and thumped a pedal against it...uphill climb ... it stopped me...bang! just like that..

    More my fault that the bike though.

    The Rohloff Speedhub is functioning perfectly on the RIP, but then I wouldn't expect anything different from the Rolly...

    I have to say that this frame is very good for me. It just fits me so well. I feel comfortable on the bike, I can go very hard on it and it just goes exactly where I look, which is what I like my bikes to do.

    I was sitting and looking at the bike and thinking about what I would change on it if I could .... and there wasn't much at all. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of my old Giant FS I used to ride....only better..

    The lockout on the front fork combined with the lockout on the rear shock is incredible for mashing up those looooong uphill fireroads that go on and on. It makes the bike feel just like a rigid SS...

    I guess the only downside to the RIP 9 is the increased speeds i'm travelling at on the downhills now...
    It's gonna hurt more when I crash ... heheheheh..



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  44. #44
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I was kind of puzzled about the "flex in the rear end" posts I saw...simply because I have never felt any on my Ripper at all.

    The Rohloff Speedhub is functioning perfectly on the RIP, but then I wouldn't expect anything different from the Rolly...
    It will be interesting to reassess once I ride the hardtail and the RIP back-to-back again. Flex is relative, to some degree. This bike currently falls in the acceptable / barely noticable range.

    I have had an issue with the Speedhub. I routed my cables under the bottom bracket and through the linkage, otherwise similar to yours. On steep climbs in low gear, I get phantom shifts. I know what I did wrong: I cut my cables a hair too short. I tried a field adjustment, loosening the set screws at the external shifter wheel and pulling a few millimeters more cable back from behind the set screws. That worked ok, but it still causes an issue on those steepest of granny gear climbs. I need to install new cables and measure just a touch longer.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  45. #45
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    It will be interesting to reassess once I ride the hardtail and the RIP back-to-back again. Flex is relative, to some degree. This bike currently falls in the acceptable / barely noticable range.

    I have had an issue with the Speedhub. I routed my cables under the bottom bracket and through the linkage, otherwise similar to yours. On steep climbs in low gear, I get phantom shifts. I know what I did wrong: I cut my cables a hair too short. I tried a field adjustment, loosening the set screws at the external shifter wheel and pulling a few millimeters more cable back from behind the set screws. That worked ok, but it still causes an issue on those steepest of granny gear climbs. I need to install new cables and measure just a touch longer.

    Ackkk....I hate doing the cables on Rolly's... Fiddly ... and as you found out...they have to be the right length...

    On my last cable install, I was extra lucky and got them exactly right...

    I don't route mine through the linkage...but beside it. That way there is no chance of them getting caught up.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  46. #46
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    You might want to check it out. It's a pretty tidy routing.

    My problem was that I didn't have them routed through the linkage prior to cutting them. So once I snaked them that direction, the cut cables "shortened up", and when the suspension cycles, they bend a little more, and tighten up enough that if I'm in my lowest gear, it ghost shifts. Because they're short, I've got no room for tweaking the barrel adjusters.

    I just need to reinstall cables. Until then, I have to stay out of my lowest gear on the steepest climbs.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  47. #47
    ridin' Mary
    Reputation: OhNooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    346
    Hey Nate and Rainman,

    I hate completely derailing a thread like this. But I need to redo my Rolly cables as well. Do I need to use deraileur cables or are these cables Rolly specific? I've been using brake housing, but brake cables have different terminations than the Rolly shifter demands.

    Thanks!

  48. #48
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,145
    I use QBP / Jagwire plain stainless paired with sprial brake housing.
    speedub.nate
    · MTBR Hiatus UFN ·

  49. #49
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,191
    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo
    Hey Nate and Rainman,

    I hate completely derailing a thread like this. But I need to redo my Rolly cables as well. Do I need to use deraileur cables or are these cables Rolly specific? I've been using brake housing, but brake cables have different terminations than the Rolly shifter demands.

    Thanks!

    I still use the Rohloff supplied cables. They work fine for me. The only thing I don't like about them is the ferrule on the handlebar shifter end...they split open.

    Apart from that minor glitch...no problems at all.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    62
    Nokons working really good for me, much more smooth than stock. Course they were 5x the price!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •