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  1. #1
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    RIP 9 Fine Tuning and Developement Thread.

    I've always felt that my RIP9's travel felt a little short and the travel indicator o-ring on my shock showed that I was only getting 50-70%. I couldn't even get full tavel with super low pressures. I weigh 220 and was running at 120 psi and still couldn't bottom out the shock. After talking to the guys at PUSH and Fox it was explained to me that because the RIP9 has a lower leverage ratio (2:1) it will ramp up really fast at the bottom end of the shocks travel. They told me that the solution would be to upgrade my shock with the High Volume Air Sleeve. I got the sleeve today and all I have to say is that every body needs to get one of these. The bike feels like it has an extra inch to inch and a half of travel. The stroke is super plush and doesn't get that super stiff ramp at the end of the travel. I tokk it out on Desert Classic today, which I normally only get 50% travel out of the sock at 150 psi, at the same pressure I got about 75% travel.

    Anyways, if you anyone is interested the sleeve costs 60 bucks from Fox or from PUSH. It takes 10 minutes to install and Fox even has a video on how to do it. It's super easy to do. Check the picture below:
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  2. #2
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    Oooohhh....I want that..


    Thanks for the 'heads up'.


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  3. #3
    Low speed, High Drag
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    This is interesting. I weigh ~220, ride DC all the time, and have no problem getting at least 75% travel out of my RIP9. I can't remember how much pressure I put in my shock, but I know the o-ring is almost all the way to the bottom of the shaft.

    On a side note, since we're basically the same size, does your RIP9 feel like it's got a flat tire, in the rear, all the time? Like the rear of the bike is sliding from side to side? Mine does, and it drives me nuts. I can't tell if it's the swingarm flexing, or the CVA rear suspension.

  4. #4
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    I've been on a rigid SS for almost a year and a half and have been on my RIP for maybe two months and I cannot get used to that feel you talk about, the rear end moving (and not just up and down).

    I've got no problem getting the full motion out of the shock, but as a shop mechanic I can get the fox sleeve for cheap, so I might give it a shot.

  5. #5
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    I don't have the "flat tire" feeling but I know what you mean about the flexyness. If you stand next to your bike and push down on one of the cranks you will notice that the bottom bracket flexes about an inch without much effort. Come to think of it, the wheels flex like crazy too. That's what happnes when you put a 220 pounder on a lightweight 29er.

    KEVHOGAZ, If you're getting that much travel on DC I think you may have too little pressure in your shock. I'm curious to see what you're running. Let me know.

  6. #6
    Low speed, High Drag
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    I'll check my pressure, I think I'm right around where Fox said to put it. I have no complaints with mine, but your "improved" shock, does peak my interest.

  7. #7
    Ride 'Til Your Knees Hurt
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    Not just for RIPs. I did the same thing for my 4" Leviathan. Made a huge difference as to how it rides!
    Can you hear me now?

  8. #8
    I am Walt
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    Check your hub. My stock rear hub keeps loosening up, causing serious looseness.

    And I think the stock wheels are way to flexy for me (200 or so geared up). That is the #1 thing I am on the hunt for now...

    I will likely do the sleeve, but I seem to be getting full travel.
    Ride more; post less...

  9. #9
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    Luv my RIP

    I'm about a buck-ninety loaded up and have approx. 110psi in my shock, I get near-full travel all the time. I don't notice much in the way of flex but I did have the lower shock bolt loosen up which caused a clunk like when a DU bushing is worn. Snugged it back up with a little Loc-Tite in place and it's cherry now.

    Wheel flex could be some folks complaint/problem is suppose, I'm using light I9's and expected them to be a little whippy with the light Stans rim but, I'm pleasantly suprised how stiff they are for a 1610 gram wheelset.

    - I just wish I wasn't broken right now so I could continue enjoying it, Road bike only for the next few weeks.

  10. #10
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    Anyone know - would this impact the spider the same way?

  11. #11
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    Depends... are you currently using all of your travel? If so, a larger air chamber can be a bad thing, resulting in lots of wallowing and bottoming.
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  12. #12
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    Heck, i dont even have the bike yet! Just want to know the best tweaks for my incoming bike.
    Im about 175.. is the compresion ratio the same on the spider 29er?

  13. #13
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    It's not just the compression ratio, but the compression curve.

    If it's a rising rate suspension and/or designed with a coil in mind, a bigger air chamber will mimic the linearity of a coil.

    If it was designed with a falling rate (is anything modern designed with a falling rate?) or if it counts on the air shock to ramp up and provide bottom-out resistance at the end of the travel, you might find yourself blowing through.
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  14. #14
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    Hey Nate. how's your RIP coming? Stil waiting to see how you build it up and what you think.
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  15. #15
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    RIP9 leverage ratio

    Here's the leverage ratio graph for the RIP9 compared to a Turner 5 spot (Turner is the green line). While the RIP9 is more progressive, I don't think it's that much out of the norm for a bike with 4-5 inches of travel. Would be interesting to hear from the Niner guys if a large shock air chamber is recommended.
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  16. #16
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    Talked with the guys at Push (I just had a factory tuning done on an RP23). They basically said that you only need it if you are not getting full travel. If you get close to full travel, it may cause you to "blow through the travel" Push says you don't need or want it if you get the most of you travel anyway. Find out your shock's travel (mine is 2") and if the O-ring gets 90% or better of that amount, I guess it's OK.
    ROTOR HEAD

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Hey Nate. how's your RIP coming? Stil waiting to see how you build it up and what you think.
    Let's see... how to not derail this thread. Hmmm...

    The bike is excellent. I mounted the Roco Air and love the way the rear end feels at the suggested 25% sag. Not quite a dw-link, and with a tiny bit of bob, but it's minimal and the important part is there is imperceptible, if any, pedal feedback. Very alive and energetic feeling, kind of like I remember my beloved Hollowpoint when I first built it up. So climbing isn't a chore and the rear end actually feels firm without softening up on obstructions in the trail.

    On the other hand, the WB Fluid 130 is a bit stiff and I'm trying to find its happy spot. I'm running at nearly 35% sag, but I haven't messed around with the compression adjustment much, so I hope to find something there. I'm wondering if I should lighten the oil or add grease injection ports or start shopping for an F135.

    The frame is a tiny bit flexy, again akin to my Hollowpoint. I wish Niner put a little more into these pivots. It's not bad, but it's not an MkIII, either (sorry for all the Iron Horse references). I did the swap out for the Enduro bearings and don't expect that made much of any difference up front, although I expect the full complement bearings will pay off as I put on the miles.

    I'm puzzled... I feared the Large frame would be on the big side. I really planned on running a 70mm stem with this bike, despite Chris' assurance that I'd be running that length on a Medium (the numbers, by my calculations, just didn't pan out). Sure enough, with my size 12 feet and the setback Maverick Speedball seatpost, I've still got the saddle set slightly rearward and the 90mm stem I've currently got mounted is feeling A-OK. I'm going to mount up my wife's 70mm stem this weekend just to be sure though.

    The stated 71.5 head tube angle measures closer to 70.5 when the fork and the rear end are at proper sag, as best I can determine from my digital level. That feels just about right **to me**, which leads me to believe others may want a half a degree or so slacker. I'll see if I feel the same once I get out on some steeper descents. At sag, I'm seeing spot on 11.5" of bottom bracket height (center of spindle), closely matching my Buzz Bomb hardtail.

    To that end, it steers pretty nicely, but I'd still like to get some more compliance out of my fork to make it "right". No comment yet on pedal strikes as I've been sticking to faster rolling terrain during these initial rides. I hope I hope I hope that isn't an issue, because my crank arms are already pretty chewed up from their short time on the MkIII.

    I haven't screwed around with the tire pressures yet, but I need to. The front and rear Rampages get mixed reviews so far. I can probably adjust down from 28 PSI to 25 or so in the front to get rid of some of the squirreliness, but I've got to work on my fork, too. On the rear, I may chuck the Rampage for a 2.1 something or other: the suspension works well enough on its own, it could stand to be grounded by a less voluminous tube of rubber.

    The frame itself is very nice. The anodized finish and the graphics are excellent, and I really dig the machining of the rear triangle yokes and dropouts. The welding leaves a little to be desired, with some inconsistencies I haven't seen on other recent Taiwanese made frames... but nothing serious. For instance, the right side of the top tube/downtube junction penetrates the head tube in three locations, while the left side shows absolutely nothing. Also, the head tube was undersized by a few hundredths of a millimeter, making the headset just a little tight going in. Lastly, one of the bearings literally pushed out with finger pressure, whereas another was tight enough that it really took some effort to remove. Overall, though, the frame is aligned perfectly, the disc tabs are flush, the bottom bracket threads were cleanly cut, and the 30.6 seat tube fit was perfect.

    Lastly, the Halo Freedom Disc rims feel downright stout, as should a 28mm 630g symmetrically laced rim... but I could have told you that from my time on the one on my Buzz Bomb.

    I've still got to mount up the Hopey (after the fork and stem issues are settled), and I'll be getting a remote kit for the Speedball.

    Edit: I need to note that the bearings were a bitch to change out, and I must have mushroomed the end of one of the bearing axles with my pin punch because it simply would not push out of the bearing. Ryan was more than helpful when I explained the problem, and quickly sent me a replacement axle. So note that (a) you can't press these bearings out, (b) Niner customer service is excellent. Oh, and (c) I think I derailed this thread.
    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 05-25-2007 at 05:29 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Nate, thanks for the derail I was waiting to hear your impression coming from a MKIII. Only thing I wanted to ask/clarify is the below statement. As far as I understand it the geo number Niners publishes are using a 100mm fork (I'll throw dumb luck and guess REBA ) so wouldn't using the taller 130 fork slack out the HA and be whats cauisin the different angle read?

    Also....35% SAG on a XCish fork seems like quite a lot to still have it feel harsh. On the Trance I get about right SAG on the rear shock and only about 15mm on the REBA in the front - geo tends to be rear biased I find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    ...................The stated 71.5 head tube angle measures closer to 70.5 when the fork and the rear end are at proper sag, as best I can determine from my digital level. That feels just about right **to me**, which leads me to believe others may want a half a degree or so slacker. I'll see if I feel the same once I get out on some steeper descents. At sag, I'm seeing spot on 11.5" of bottom bracket height (center of spindle), closely matching my Buzz Bomb hardtail....................
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Let's see... how to not derail this thread. Hmmm...

    The bike is excellent. I mounted the Roco Air and love the way the rear end feels at the suggested 25% sag. Not quite a dw-link, and with a tiny bit of bob, but it's minimal and the important part is there is imperceptible, if any, pedal feedback. Very alive and energetic feeling, kind of like I remember my beloved Hollowpoint when I first built it up. So climbing isn't a chore and the rear end actually feels firm without softening up on obstructions in the trail....

    .

    Nate, I've been looking forward to your impressions for some time so I glad you got a chance to get it put together. Unfortunately I haven't found my Rip9 to feel lively at all. It is plush so maybe I'm running too much sag. I agree that it pedals well but I have my rebound on full fast and it just isn't lively. I hear myself saying it's plush yet pedals well so I feel like I'm nit picking but it just isn't right yet.

    I typically think that if you don't notice suspension then it's working well and this bike has that characteristic. On the other hand the in the short time I had the MKIII it's shock was dying yet I still liked its liveliness more. That doesn't include the last ride when it topped out the whole time. I took the shock out of the Rip rear end and it moved reasonably, not without drag but reasonably.

    Knee issues have kept me off bikes for a few weeks but I think I'll get to ride tomorrow and will try more shock pressure. Right now I'm at 125lbs shock pressure for my 180lbs and 1/2" to 9/16" sag. I just today recieved a Roco Air for my MKIII so over the weekend I may get to ride both bikes back to back and could even put the 7.5 x 2 Roco on the Rip!

    Also, my RP23 looks like it has the mid level propedal tune. I almost always have the propedal off. If I turn it to level two it's basically locked out.

    In terms of trying to get this thread train back on track. I put a large can on my 3" Lev's RP3 before I sold it and thought it helped loads. That frame never ever got full travel with the stock can RP3. However I can't see the Rip needing the large can for my 180lb butt. I'm getting full travel with 25% sag.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    Nate, I've been looking forward to your impressions for some time so I glad you got a chance to get it put together. Unfortunately I haven't found my Rip9 to feel lively at all. It is plush so maybe I'm running too much sag. I agree that it pedals well but I have my rebound on full fast and it just isn't lively. I hear myself saying it's plush yet pedals well so I feel like I'm nit picking but it just isn't right yet.

    I typically think that if you don't notice suspension then it's working well and this bike has that characteristic. On the other hand the in the short time I had the MKIII it's shock was dying yet I still liked its liveliness more. That doesn't include the last ride when it topped out the whole time. I took the shock out of the Rip rear end and it moved reasonably, not without drag but reasonably.

    Knee issues have kept me off bikes for a few weeks but I think I'll get to ride tomorrow and will try more shock pressure. Right now I'm at 125lbs shock pressure for my 180lbs and 1/2" to 9/16" sag. I just today recieved a Roco Air for my MKIII so over the weekend I may get to ride both bikes back to back and could even put the 7.5 x 2 Roco on the Rip!

    Also, my RP23 looks like it has the mid level propedal tune. I almost always have the propedal off. If I turn it to level two it's basically locked out.

    In terms of trying to get this thread train back on track. I put a large can on my 3" Lev's RP3 before I sold it and thought it helped loads. That frame never ever got full travel with the stock can RP3. However I can't see the Rip needing the large can for my 180lb butt. I'm getting full travel with 25% sag.

    - What Wheel & Tire combo are you using? That alone has a huge part in how any bike feels.

  21. #21
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    RIP frame and stiffness

    Well I've seen it mentioned in a few different threads now recently and I was looking for opinions on this. Is it something only a few people are noticing and what bike's have you ridden in the past that it's compares to/can be compared to? I'll hopefully be able to form my own impressions very soon, but until then I thought it was something interesting I saw popping up and not mentioned in the 29er shootout or in most people initial impressions.

    Thoughts opinions are welcome and before you even reply, no I won't stop bagging/asking questions about a bike I don't yet have. We are allowed to have our own opinions and question stuff - that's the basis for capitalism and improved products.
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  22. #22
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    I owned one...

    and its a great bike. If, however, stiffness is way up on your list of priorities or if you're a BIG guy, you may be better served by something like a Ventana, maybe a Titus. I haven't had personal experience with Lenz but it looks very solid. There's a little flex in the rear of the Niner.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    ...wouldn't using the taller 130 fork slack out the HA and be whats cauisin the different angle read?

    Also....35% SAG on a XCish fork seems like quite a lot to still have it feel harsh.
    [/I]
    Yes, at face value, the extra travel should slacken the head angle. But I haven't seen manufacturers consistantly state that their published sag numbers are based on a properly sagged suspension, so I'm always suspect.

    A Reba at 25% sag = 469mm, while a Fluid 130 at 35% sag = 484mm. That's a difference of 15mm, or 0.75, by my calculations. So yeah, given a respectful margin of error for my measurement, the Niner numbers are pretty realistic.

    I set the 35% sag as a starting point just to get a feel for the bike, and picked the compression setting (also set via air pressure) based on some info in other threads discussing the Fluid 130 fork. Clearly I've got some playing around to do, and don't consider 35% my final setting... necessarily. Depends on how much travel I use by the end of a ride.

    I feel pretty comfortable with my cockpit setup and rear shock setup, so I'll mess around with the fork next ride out.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    ...I haven't found my Rip9 to feel lively at all. It is plush so maybe I'm running too much sag. I agree that it pedals well but I have my rebound on full fast and it just isn't lively. I hear myself saying it's plush yet pedals well so I feel like I'm nit picking but it just isn't right yet.

    I typically think that if you don't notice suspension then it's working well and this bike has that characteristic.
    I guess I should qualify "lively." Lively on my Joshua URT meant I was bouncing off of stuff, sometimes like a pogo stick. Lively on this bike is a substitute for "active." It's not necessarily shooting a bunch of energy back at me, but it's clearly doing its thing when I look down between my legs, without yelling at me that it's doing its thing. And Lively unlike my NRS, which seemed to hit anything bigger than a small stone and s . u . c . k the energy out of my cadence. So I don't know if we're on the same page there or not.

    Give me a few more rides to work on clarifying my impression, though... I haven't really done anything silly on this bike yet.
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  25. #25
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    That last post was just enough to officially say we've gone off topic.

    Man, I thought I was anal about my setup. You're killing me.

    Cheers!

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