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  1. #26
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    I've got a closeout Jet 9 RDO on order from Outside Outfitters. I guess with what people are seeing I would be well advised to wait to see what version frame I get and if it comes with a headset or not.

    Funny how Niner flip flops on the headset standards. RIP 9 aluminum went from Integrated to Internal(ZS) headset for the latest models and JET 9 RDO went from Internal(ZS) to Integrated for the latest models.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RDO 2 Different Headtubes-screen-shot-2012-12-22-5.53.30-pm.jpg  


  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by etanc View Post
    Niner returned my call and they will bring up this topic in the next meeting to make sure dealers and the consumers are better informed about the headtube version change from the King to Cane Creek. Looks like King does not trust mfg's to get the tolerances correct and will offer zero stack only. Niner has gone all integrated. I like King but with a bike that rides this good it won't be a deal breaker.

    Thanks to all for decreasing the confusion for new Ninerds.
    Wait, so the new Jet 9 RDO frames have Integrated headsets? Glad I got one with Internal then. I can only imagine how bad carbon would hold up to having that bearing rubbing up against it. I already have a bad creaking problem with another Integrated headtube.

  3. #28
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    You know what this forum needs? A sticky with a link the the Niner Encyclopedia.

    Niner Encyclopedia The Holy Grail of Niner Bikes

    I vote to sticky!
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  4. #29
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Quote Originally Posted by llamma View Post
    Wait, so the new Jet 9 RDO frames have Integrated headsets? Glad I got one with Internal then. I can only imagine how bad carbon would hold up to having that bearing rubbing up against it. I already have a bad creaking problem with another Integrated headtube.
    I was thinking about this and suspect that carbon would actually hold up better than aluminum in that situation. Unfinished aluminum has a bad habit of turning into black goop under friction situations... a problem I don't believe carbon has. This may be why the aluminum frames have moved to the ZS style headsets whereas the carbon are able to take advantage of the weight savings of not having pressed in cups.

  5. #30
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    Well my closeout Jet 9 RDO showed up from Jenson USA and it looks like I got V1.0 which takes the zerostack and before the headbadge changes. Funny how I could be so stocked about the framing showing up only to be disappointed that it was V1.0 not V1.1. I'm shallow.......

  6. #31
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by tneker View Post
    Well my closeout Jet 9 RDO showed up from Jenson USA and it looks like I got V1.0 which takes the zerostack and before the headbadge changes. Funny how I could be so stocked about the framing showing up only to be disappointed that it was V1.0 not V1.1. I'm shallow.......
    Well you will be High when you ride it

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tneker View Post
    Well my closeout Jet 9 RDO showed up from Jenson USA and it looks like I got V1.0 which takes the zerostack and before the headbadge changes. Funny how I could be so stocked about the framing showing up only to be disappointed that it was V1.0 not V1.1. I'm shallow.......
    I was in the same boat when I got in on the beginnings of the frame deals a couple months ago. But every time I ride the thing my smiles per miles far out way what is under my stem.

  8. #33
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    Mine came with an FSA headset, built it yesterday, merry Xmas to me

  9. #34
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    Hey guys...playing the waiting game like the rest of you..not sure which version to expect. I ordered mine from a local dealer who matched the OO price (Cheers to that!)..we are talking out the door price, no sales tax on top of the price. I kinda expected the headset to not be included..so i had the dealer order the proper cane creek one.

    For you guys who have received your frames w/ headsets...what headsets are they coming with from niner? Cane Creek or FSA? Are there any markings on the headset cap...or on the actual cups? Or any visible differences between the preinstalled headsets and an aftermarket cane creek zero stack? I wanna make sure they dont see a headset already installed...but still charge me for the additional part...I told them to press fit the bb and headset before I come to pick it up...and i can see how something like that could slip through the cracks

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by drz400sm View Post
    Hey guys...playing the waiting game like the rest of you..not sure which version to expect. I ordered mine from a local dealer who matched the OO price (Cheers to that!)..we are talking out the door price, no sales tax on top of the price. I kinda expected the headset to not be included..so i had the dealer order the proper cane creek one.

    For you guys who have received your frames w/ headsets...what headsets are they coming with from niner? Cane Creek or FSA? Are there any markings on the headset cap...or on the actual cups? Or any visible differences between the preinstalled headsets and an aftermarket cane creek zero stack? I wanna make sure they dont see a headset already installed...but still charge me for the additional part...I told them to press fit the bb and headset before I come to pick it up...and i can see how something like that could slip through the cracks
    My V1.0 came from Jenson USA without a headset so I orderered the appropriate 40 series cane creek once I confirmed it was a zero stack frame. I recall my Air 9 came with an FSA headset, but I installed a cane creek and ebayed the FSA. I was pleasantly surprised that it came with a niner seat clamp.

  11. #36
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    For the guys that have the 1.0 Frame.
    You have the capability to run different angled headsets to make the frame a little more Trail/downhill savvy (not like Redbull downhill). The newer ones with the internal headsets cannot do this. When I asked Niner about this they said that if you had one of the newer version going to a 120 fork would make the geometry slacker and improve the Trail characteristics.

    I currently have another brand of of 29er with very similar geometry except it is almost 2 degrees slacker at the head angle. it sure is confidence inspiring when the trail decends. (or what some of us midwesterners consider decending anyway ) I love the way the bike rides but have always wanted an Jet9Rdo

    My Niner frame is currently on my Mantle as I gather odds and ends for the build. Not the most popular storage location in the household but I really like it.

    Anyway I plan on initially running the stock headset the existin 100MM Reba then making decisions on different headset mfgs/Fork options after some seat time on the bike.

    If you look at some of the Magazine reviews this was an area they thought would enhance the bike if used as a trailbike.

    This is not the writeup I was thinking about but they mention it (Stock headset angle =71.5)

    Edit: I do not have enough posts to post a link in this forum but if you put www in front of the following line you will see the reference.
    dirtragmag.com/reviews/review-niner-jet9-rdo
    Last edited by Ohfugit; 01-12-2013 at 05:45 PM.

  12. #37
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    Mine has the integrated headset too...no complaints. Saved me a couple bucks on the build. Also came with the bottle top cap and a niner seatpost clamp. Definitely was expecting those to be included...cheers to that!

  13. #38
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    I got mine from Outside Outfitters 2 weeks ago $1500 is hard to beat for such an amazing frame, and it came with a headset. I was lucky to get the inset headset, otherwise I would have returnded it and tried to find an inset frame. STAY AWAY FROM INTEGRATED HEADSETS!!! ESPECIALLY ON CARBON FRAMES!!! Carbon fiber is a very strong material when layed up properly, however.... there is a reason you do not see carbon fiber knife blades, tools, etc. it is not a strong material for friction, contact, and sheer force. read the following information about Inset vs. integrated from Chris King: http://chrisking.com/files/pdfs/Int2...sExplained.pdf

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdcrisp View Post
    I got mine from Outside Outfitters 2 weeks ago $1500 is hard to beat for such an amazing frame, and it came with a headset. I was lucky to get the inset headset, otherwise I would have returnded it and tried to find an inset frame. STAY AWAY FROM INTEGRATED HEADSETS!!! ESPECIALLY ON CARBON FRAMES!!! Carbon fiber is a very strong material when layed up properly, however.... there is a reason you do not see carbon fiber knife blades, tools, etc. it is not a strong material for friction, contact, and sheer force. read the following information about Inset vs. integrated from Chris King: http://chrisking.com/files/pdfs/Int2...sExplained.pdf
    Sweet PDF from 2002! Not sure its relevant anymore though. I have integrated headsets on all my frames, road and mountain. Nothing against king but it sure seems like companies like niner have their **** together. My air9 rdo headset has been great and I've had it for a year now. I could see how you might have issues if the bearings locked up but you would have issues in any material at that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If I told you I saw a unicorn ****ing a leprechaun trail side, you'd probably be suspicious.

  15. #40
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    ... and if we just ... Integrated headsets and bottom brackets not good design...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleForScience View Post
    Sweet PDF from 2002! Not sure its relevant anymore though. I have integrated headsets on all my frames, road and mountain. Nothing against king but it sure seems like companies like niner have their **** together. My air9 rdo headset has been great and I've had it for a year now. I could see how you might have issues if the bearings locked up but you would have issues in any material at that point.
    The problem as Chris King and several other manufacturers have pointed out over the years is that integrated bearings in headtubes and in bottom brackets (BB30) inherently put undo stress directly against the frame itself. The outside race of the bearings are usually made of a very hard material such as high carbon steel or or high carbon stainless steel. In a world were we are putting extremly high amounts of load on cranksets and headsets (think impact force not constant force) one of the two materials at a junction such as a bearing to mating surface is going to see some sort of distribution of friction (even with great bearings) and or some sort of cohesion or distribution of high levels of "rubbing" if you will. When you have a soft or low hardness material such as carbon fiber fighting against a hard or high hardness material such as the outside of a bearing= ultimately the bearing is going to win the battle it is only a matter of time. This is why several bike manufacturers have stepped away from BB30 or integrated headset frames or have all together never made frames with integrated headsets or BB30 bottom brackets. If you read Park Tools explanation, Chris Kings, Moots, Specialized and so on most people agree that having an interface of direct contact on the frame with the bearings is a recipe for long term failure. However there are several great alternatives. For instance with Bottom Brackets you can still have the benifits of oversized 30mm spindle but have the bearings rest within a cup such as PF30 just like Niner uses on the Jet9 RDO. And in the case of headsets you have the internal versus the integrated. Having some sort of cup that can take the friction, cohesion, linear momentumand collision forces (no matter how small these forces are) is a good idea when mating a very hard material such as a bearing against something with such a low hardness and friction rating such as carbon fiber. Why do it, why take the risk? when you can simply put something between the bearings and the frame. The answer comes from the road frame world were there is a never ending quest to one up the other guys by making a bike a few grams lighter than the next manufacturer. As some manufacturers have said is it reduces the weight how ever slight it may be, and in the never ending quest to have the lightest frame on the market taking out a small amount of aluminum (or steel in the case of some headset manufacturers) saves some weight. Remember not all things that trickle down from the road world is necessarily a win win for the mountain bike world as well.
    You may be able to generate several hundred ft. lbs of constant torque with your leg against a lever (your crank arm) as you push down on it with all your weight. However unlike in the roadie world in the Mountain bike world a simply jump and landing off something as small as even a one foot jump can generate exponentially much more force. For instance a simple 150lb runner who is jogging generates roughly 1200lbs of impact step after step!
    Now just imagine how much force you and your bike are generating on your headtube juntion and bottom bracket junction everytime you hit a bump, take a jump, etc. I have read that some mountain bike manufacturers have seen numbers as high as 7000 to 8000 lbs of impact force from a simple xc racer on a xc race course on the bottom bracket and headtube. Now imagine how much force all mountian, free ride and downhillers generate! remember a jogger is taking a simple stride and not actually getting there foot much more than 4 to 10 inches off the ground. Impact Force is a big reason several manufacturers such as Chris King, ect simply refuse to make integrated headsets or bottom brackets.... its only a matter of time before your frame will wear down in these highly stressed spots as the bearing has to wear on something...
    yes that article I posted from Chris King may have been written in 2002 but too my understanding the laws of physics we are talking about have not changed since 2002?

  16. #41
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    It makes sense that an integrated headset could potentially cause problems to the frame, but wouldnt niners 5 year carbon warranty cover problems like this?

  17. #42
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Quote Originally Posted by drz400sm View Post
    It makes sense that an integrated headset could potentially cause problems to the frame, but wouldnt niners 5 year carbon warranty cover problems like this?
    Do you want to be depending on warranty to save you from a problem like that, and more importantly what happens after 5 years is up? I certainly wouldn't be thrilled to have to throw away a $2600 frame because the headset cups wore out at year 6. I wonder it it would be possible to ream out the head tube to accept ZS headset cups if that ever happened?

  18. #43
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    Headset worry = maintenance is your friend

    In response to the guy said "Nothing against king but it sure seems like companies like niner have their **** together." Really? Niner has repeadtly changed their designs to try and keep up with what is the most current. But more often than not gone back to what is tried and true ie. the new RIP9 RDO has a regular english thread bottom bracket. Furthermore over the years Niner has had a couple "oh oh" momments and had recalls and or "free" frame replacements due to errors. I am in no way bashing Niner, in fact I love Niner. I'm a Ninerd and own a WFO and and JET9 RDO. I think their suspension design is one of the best on the market if not the best. They build one hell of a strong and robust frame. (I have ridden many bikes in my 20+ years of mountain biking and I have never ridden a stiffer frame, that still pedals as efficiently and is still so plush of a ride!
    But... Niner is not perfect, no one is! The point I am getting at is, Niner at least stands by their mistakes, and takes care of their clients, much better than most companies in my opinion.

    More importantly, everything I have said is just my opinion, I am not an expert, and furthermore I am human so no matter how hard I try I will have some bias in my opinions, based on past experiences. Just like everyone else on these forums, all comments are just opinions, some more educated opinions than others, but all the same just opinions.
    So point being, take everything you read on these and all forums with a grain of salt!
    it doesn't matter what type of headset you end up getting- integreated, inset, etc. the main thing to do, is check your headset regularly, with your regular maintenance and you should be fine.
    Maintenance is your friend! and your bike will reward you for it!

  19. #44
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    Great post. Frame mfg's make decisions for a variety of reasons and it would be interesting to get Niners take on the headset decision.

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