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  1. #1
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    Niner Bio-Centric

    Hello Everyone,

    We would like to respond to feedback regarding our Bio-Centric EBB and to create an official post regarding info for those of you with questions or concerns. To start, it is important to understand that the Bio-Centric EBB is unlike any other EBB in that it clamps to the outside faces of the EBB shell, the outside faces of the EBB need to be clean and parallel. It does require a bit of frame preparation to make sure everything will be trouble free.

    First, I would like to reference our original EBB setup guide. This is for older frames that were made before the Bio-Centric was around, in order to get them working with the Bio-Centric. This PDF file also goes into detail about how to convert the first generation of the Bio-Centric to the newest version (190 IN/LBS). All of our current model frames come with a newer version Bio-Centric that has already been prepared for your frame.

    https://www.box.net/shared/static/84ez59bt56.pdf

    Following the instructions in the original setup guide will result in an EBB that does not creak or slip. However there are some instances that require a little more work such as for bikes used in extremely wet conditions. For these cases we recommend a product called Effetto Mariposa CarboGrip. This compound is typically not needed, but for particularly tough cases where creaking or slipping is persistent, we have found it to work really well in the Bio-Centric.

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    To apply the CarboGrip you clean off the inside of the EBB shell and spray it everywhere that the Bio-Centric contacts the EBB shell. Then put the Bio-Centric into the frame without the Teflon tape closely following the instructions making sure the cups are not binding.

    Also, when installing the Bio-Centric it is very important that the cups are in phase with each other. It is possible to have the cups slightly out of alignment which can lead to creaking or slipping. It can be useful to make a slight mark with a grease pencil for a reference point.

    Second, the Bio-Centric was designed to be used with modern, external bearing crank sets. Using an internal bottom bracket system is not advisable because it works against the design of the Bio-Centric and can cause slipping issues.

    Finally, with the proper care and installation the Bio-Centric is a great system that can be trouble free and a blast to ride. Keep in mind that all systems need maintenance. If you are in an especially wet climate or you ride through water often, you should maintain your Bio-Centric more frequently. If it is making any noises or slipping, it is ready to be serviced. We have thousands of Niner EBB frames in many different climates and conditions all over the world. Based on our sales records, in 99.5% of cases, there are no issues, but this is a high impact and wear interface on a bicycle and it is imperative that installation and maintenance are conducted properly. Because of the nature of the internet, that .5% that have not yet solved their installation issues are highly visible to everyone with an EBB. Just know that we are happy to work with customers on a case by case basis, and to help them with the installation if you have any additional questions. Please contact me directly.

    Eric
    1-877-NINERXC
    service@ninerbikes.com
    .........

    Passion. Commitment. 29ers only.

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  2. #2
    Phatt Tire Luva'
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    Thanks A BUNCH Eric!!!!

    Yet another example of Niner's Iron-Clad & Stellar, Customer Service!
    Ciao,

    -A-


    “Beer, if drank in moderation, softens the temper, cheers the spirit and promotes health”

  3. #3
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    You guys are hands down one of the best in the industry. Thanks for the update.

  4. #4
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    While it is nice that Niner posts about the EBB, I still think it's a bad design. This post just added another reason - I didn't know that they recommend against old school BBs. That means no White Industries crankset, for instance. The more caveats and precautions that have to be spelled out, the weaker the design. I suspect that there are a lot of creaking and slipping EBBs that go unreported or the owners at least have to spend some time to get it to work right. I'm not buying the 1/2 percent thing.

    Design flaws:

    1. Fussy setup (prone to creaking or slipping if not done perfectly).
    2. May not be compatible with square taper or ISIS BBs.
    3. Once crankset bearing preload is set, it can be difficult to turn EBB to adjust prior to tightening EBB.
    4. Adjusting EBB on trail may be difficult with standard mini tool - need long allen wrench for leverage.
    5. Interface is thin steel BB shell to aluminum EBB - may become damaged over time.

    Given all that, why not a split shell EBB instead? Seems to me that would adress all of the issues. My only guess is that a split shell might be harder to manufacture.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    While it is nice that Niner posts about the EBB, I still think it's a bad design. This post just added another reason - I didn't know that they recommend against old school BBs. That means no White Industries crankset, for instance. The more caveats and precautions that have to be spelled out, the weaker the design. I suspect that there are a lot of creaking and slipping EBBs that go unreported or the owners at least have to spend some time to get it to work right. I'm not buying the 1/2 percent thing.

    Design flaws:

    1. Fussy setup (prone to creaking or slipping if not done perfectly).
    2. May not be compatible with square taper or ISIS BBs.
    3. Once crankset bearing preload is set, it can be difficult to turn EBB to adjust prior to tightening EBB.
    4. Adjusting EBB on trail may be difficult with standard mini tool - need long allen wrench for leverage.
    5. Interface is thin steel BB shell to aluminum EBB - may become damaged over time.

    Given all that, why not a split shell EBB instead? Seems to me that would adress all of the issues. My only guess is that a split shell might be harder to manufacture.

    Just to clear something up:

    3. The BioCentric is the easiest EBB I've ever adjusted. I've used Bushnell, set screw, and split shell (all of which can come off center while adjusting). Bearing preload does not affect it's ability to spin. If it does you've got way too much preload on your bearings.

    4. Correct. Not so much of a leverage issue, but it can be difficult to access the bolt with a mini-tool due to interference with the crank arm/BB. I just carry a separate 6mm in my kit. Actually I stopped carrying a mini tool, and only carry the single tools I need in a Genuine Innovations repair wallet.

    5. That's a lot of conjecture. Wanna talk about damage to the shell? Let talk about set screws and ovalized shells. The manner in which the shell is being clamped with even force around the outside of the shell? I imagine the EBB would strip before you could apply enough force to cause any damage.

    Mine has creaked on occasion and required maintenance. But then again, so have my seat rails, my stem, my pedals...
    WWW.TEAMDICKY.COM

    I get paid 3˘ every time I post on MTBR.

  6. #6
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    Mmm very nice I will try that with my Old Style EBB One-9, for now I run the MCR with the Tr!ckstuff (glad I didn't choose for the SIR)


  7. #7
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    how do you know if you have an old style or new style? My frame is a 2010 one9.

  8. #8
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    I run White Industries cranks with the Biocentric with no problems.
    Livin' the dream.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent878
    how do you know if you have an old style or new style? My frame is a 2010 one9.
    Yours is new Brent , the old style had two screws holding them in place.

    I had a similar email from niner over a week ago and the Carbo-grip is on the way, i run Middleburns and a ISIS SKF600 BB, funny i didnt read anywhere of ext BB only before shelling out for the frame... then a further $500 approx for the cranks and BB
    Ti O'Beast
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  10. #10
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    funny i didnt read anywhere of ext BB only before shelling out for the frame... then a further $500 approx for the cranks and BB
    Yeah - I just bough a 2nd hand SIR9 having done some research and had no idea that you shouldn't run it with internal bb - I'm going to try my Middleburns/SKF square taper as I can't afford new cranks.

  11. #11
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    So why can you not run IBB with bio-centric? Anyone want to clarify this information??

  12. #12
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    I had an email from Eric just over a week ago and the story is :Quote (talking about my ISIS) " The bottom bracket is designed to wedge itself into the non drive side cup and that is essentially pushing the Bio-Centric apart"

    The problem i have is its a continual creak with every push of the pedals. Ive did the fix about 20 times and the frame is getting eBay'd if this carbo-grip does not work.

    Its cheaper to sell off the frame and buy another than try clawing money back on my cranks and BB when a hollowtech setup might require as much maintenance or might not work at all.

    Such a shame on an awesome frame, i would nearly buy an Air9 and run a tensioner, but im just a bit pissed off that i have been told after the fact that ISIS and SQ/T BB exaggerate the creaking/slipping of the Niner Bio-centric BB design.
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

  13. #13
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    thanks for the info. I emailed Niner today asking them about the EBB and internal bearing bb's. Fortunately, I dont have a frame yet, but I was hoping to run white industries crankset and ti bb. looks like I may have to decide against that if I go with the One9 frame. Its looking like the xtr cranks are a viable (but expensive) alternative.

  14. #14
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    I have used this product for 3 months now on my ONE9. IT WORKS!!!!!..I have not had any creaking, slippage since I put it on.....Thanks Eric.....NINER ROCKS!!!
    Just ride and quit bit$hin........
    SANTA CRUZ TALLBOY LT...SIR9-SS-....Supersix-EVO soon....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancruz
    I have used this product for 3 months now on my ONE9. IT WORKS!!!!!..I have not had any creaking, slippage since I put it on.....Thanks Eric.....NINER ROCKS!!!
    Fingers crossed mine is the same
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
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  16. #16
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    Update: I did get an email back from Eric at Niner. With the bio-centric the bottom bracket shell effectively becomes 73mm. Also, they recommend against using internal bearing BB as it works against the bio-centric design, which was meant to be used with external bearing BB.

  17. #17
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    Thanks Eric, i just ordered a tube of the CarboGrip, im always in wet conditions so its creeking alot. I hope this works. Thanks a ton.

  18. #18
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    Carbo grip arrived and mod is completed, bike is cleaned, torqued, lubed and new Niner carbon fork fitted... Tonights ride will reveal all .
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
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  19. #19
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    Well, silence is golden !

    Not a creak from the BB , ok i sprayed half a can of carbo-grip around the BB but worth it for silence.

    I removed all the teflon tape, cleaned with alcohol and let fly with the carbo-grip, torqued it up to a bit more than the specified level and left it for 5-6 hours.

    So i have a quiet SKF BXC600 ISIS BB with Middleburns, it might cost me a crap load on carbo-grip over the life of the frame but thats a small price rather than losing $$$ eBaying it.
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx
    Well, silence is golden !

    Not a creak from the BB , ok i sprayed half a can of carbo-grip around the BB but worth it for silence.

    I removed all the teflon tape, cleaned with alcohol and let fly with the carbo-grip, torqued it up to a bit more than the specified level and left it for 5-6 hours.

    So i have a quiet SKF BXC600 ISIS BB with Middleburns, it might cost me a crap load on carbo-grip over the life of the frame but thats a small price rather than losing $$$ eBaying it.
    Sounds good. I thought it wouldn't work with internal bottom brackets?

  21. #21
    I Void Waranties
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    Will it work with the old style one9 ? I had just about enough with this BB. Though I'm a bit of a torque'er.

    What are the main advantages to the new BB, they are a fair bit more ex.
    The 1st production mountain bike was sold in 1984.
    Anti EBB

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clink
    Sounds good. I thought it wouldn't work with internal bottom brackets?
    Niner are just trying to cover their ass with this statement, they reckon the slight hugging effect of the hollowtech style BB helps to hold the BB shells together.

    No idea with the older stuff Punkey, this stuff sprays like water then turns super sticky, i dont care whatever it is , i have a slient BB... i'll deal with how sticky when i pull it apart but for now im happy with quietness.
    Ti O'Beast
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  23. #23
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    Is the fix still holding up?

  24. #24
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    Okay Guys, somewhat of a tech newbie here. I have a new 2010 RIP 9, which was built up by my LBS. I'm running SRAM X9 cranks. The bike has maybe 110 miles on it over 10 rides. I've got some creaking which I'm pretty sure is coming from the BB. The bike has been ridden only in very dry conditions (Albuquerque).

    I'm looking for opinions on whether I take it back to the LBS and have them track down the creaking and fix it, or should I buy some CarboGrip and do it myself? I'm pretty good mechanically, and my riding partner can fix anything. Your input and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

  25. #25
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    I bought a SIR9 last summer and run SS with Biocentric. I have had to continually fiddle with it to keep it quiet. I have tried teflon tape, plumbers teflon tape (thicker stuff), anti-sieze (gold, silver), running it dry, running with grease, you name it.

    What I found that works the best is the thick plumbers teflon tape, Problem is if I change a gear (rare) or adjust it, I have to disassemble everything and apply new tape, pain the a$$.

    I love the bike but feel all the hassle may prevent me from buying another one.

    I am really not interested in trying another fix unless Niner wants to send me some of that stuff for free - I just want my bike to work like its supposed to.

    I went SS because I wanted to just ride and not have to fiddle with it all the time.

    I know there is still maintenance with the bike but it should not be this much.

    By the way, I faced my BB shell and made sure it was just about perfectly parallel with a set of precision calipers so that ain't the problem.

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