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  1. #1
    PSYCHOLUST
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    New Niner EBB, NOISE unfixable

    I know this subject has been dealt with previously, but most info seems to deal with the old design.
    I have a new ONE9 and after 6 weeks the EBB noise is constant and incurable.

    I have disassembled, cleaned, reassembled,TORQUED to spec MANY times.
    At first, I could expect to get 3 or 4 rides in before the noise returned, but NOW the noise is constant.

    The lip or face of the EBB that contacts the BB shell appears to have small imperfections in it that were, most likely, caused by grains of sand that became imbedded in the aluminum.

    SO NOW WHAT?

    a new EBB every few weeks?
    don't ride the bike where it might get dirty?

    If anyone has solved this problem, please let me know.
    I am at the point where I cannot stand the noise and I've gone back to riding my old bike.

  2. #2
    Dirty South Underdog
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    You're welcome.

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  3. #3
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    Did you wrap the EBB with 2 layers of PTFE right up to the lip?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob
    Did you wrap the EBB with 2 layers of PTFE right up to the lip?
    No I didn't.... I think that is my next step.

  5. #5
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    Well, disassemble, clean wrap in PTFE,

    No change.

  6. #6
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    How I fixed it

    I have had creaking on my SIR but have mostly eliminated it with these steps.

    1. I used a wet stone to clean the edge of the BB shell.
    2. I thoroughly cleaned the EBB and wrapped it in the plumbers tape as described above.
    3. I greased the hell out of the BB and EBB shell before assembly
    4. I torqued beyond the specs. The EBB I believe is stamped with 130 in-lbs but Niner's new recommendation is 190. Be sure you are at least hitting that number. I am sure I went a little higher than 190.

    After these steps I will get creaking for maybe one ride before the EBB seems to settle in and quiet down. Every time I retention the chain I have about one ride again with mild creaking before it is silent.

    I ride in the wet and mud a lot and that hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. If anything the dust I rode through in Bend last week was worse than the wet as far as generating any noise.

  7. #7
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    I had the same issue with my brand new SIR9, when I took the EBB off I found that the bike builder (not me!) did not wrap it with teflon tape. What I saw was some water was getting into the shell and rusting the inside in certain spot which I am sure was the cause of the creaking.

    So I sanded in the inside of the shell until all rust was gone, wrapped the EBB once with teflon tape (2 times around was too much) and re-assembled.

    No more creaking. I would take your apart and clean it real good, also make sure when wrapping it with teflon tape that you don't put to much on, when you insert it back in the shell it must go in clean.

    Best of luck to ya!

  8. #8
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    Thanks guys.... I'll take another stab at it tomorrow

  9. #9
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    I don't have a torque wrench but do really tighten down the EBB bolt as much as I can get into it.

    More than likely I go above 190lb/inch. There's no doubt it's easily the most torqued bolt on the whole bike.

    Another thought: What crankset and BB are you using?
    Last edited by driver bob; 08-30-2010 at 10:16 AM.

  10. #10
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    running a SRAM/TRUVATIV Stylo GXP

    Also... I've seen more than one reference to using a WET STONE to square the edge of the BB shell
    I'm thinking this is for a few reasons.
    1) remove CLEAR COAT ( that would interfere with a perfect flange contact
    2) square up the end of the BB shell that is likely distorted from welding

    But why a wet stone?
    Why not fine sandpaper on a BLOCK?

  11. #11
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    Okay, it just occurred to me that if you were (for some reason) mixing GXP and Shimano that might be the cause of a creak.

    Also, check the bottle cage bolts. I had a creak which turned out to be coming from the rivet nut.

  12. #12
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    driver bob..............

    Reading your last post made me think
    "Sram crank, and sram ring and....."suddenly I could see in my minds eye, those alloy chainring bolts and I ran out to the garage and TIGHTENED them and went sprinting down the road.......

    Chain ring bolts..
    With all this talk about NINER EBBs I failed to consider the things I would have considered on any other bike..

    THANKS

  13. #13
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    Alrighty, here is what I did to finally quiet my new Biocentric EBB. Your installation might vary a bit based on your bottom bracket choice. I'm running a Hive FifteenG crankset which allows the installation of each BB 'half' independent of the other. So, I could install the BB on the bike or at the bench easily and do all the steps below without messing with the BB again.

    Materials needed:

    - sharpie
    - Permatex Anti-Seize
    - bottle of alcohol
    - clean rags
    - torque wrench (inch-lb preferably, but you can convert from ft-lbs)
    - 6mm hex socket (I found a long shaft one from harbor freight)
    - 6mm long allen wrench (if you don't have a long 6mm hex socket)
    - fine tooth file (optional)
    - medium grit sandpaper (I used 120 grit if I remember correctly)
    - sanding block
    - q-tips


    1. With the sharpie, fully 'color' the EBB shell face that comes into contact with the EBB lip. Now, sand the face of the EBB shell face with either a file and/or sandpaper. Make sure you go in one direction and perfectly flat against the shell face . Sand slowly till the ink is gone. Clean with alcohol.

    2. If not already, chamfer the EBB shell to 45 degrees as specified by Niner. I have a deburring tool (available from Harbor Freight) which did this evenly and perfectly. Clean with alcohol.

    3. Carefully sand (with loose sandpaper) both of the actual EBB surfaces that come into contact with the EBB shell especially the inside lip. This will take a while and is greatly enhanced if you use a bench vise.

    4. Per Niner directions, drill the relief where the bolt shoulder rests against the non-drive side EBB. Clean the EBB with alcohol thoroughly.

    5. Install the EBB dry and tighten snug. Install your bottom bracket till snug if you haven't already. Now, install the crankset to snug as well.

    6. Measure and remove enough links of your chain to allow tensioning within the throw of the EBB. With your chain fitted and your chainline perfect, loosen the EBB bolt and rotate the EBB per Niner recommendations till the chain is almost tight with just a bit of movement when pushed up and down. Tighten the EBB and double check the chain tension.

    7. On the non-drive side, place a line with the sharpie on the EBB shell that corresponds with the while dot on the outside lip of the EBB.

    8. Disassemble your crankset (and possibly your bottom bracket). Now, loosen the EBB bolt. Guess what: clean everything yet again.

    9. Grease the shoulder where your previously did the relief drilling for the EBB bolt. A Q-tip would work well here. Slide the bolt into place. Do not grease the bolt threads. If the threadlock is pretty much gone, use blue locktite during the final install later.

    10. Using fresh q-tips, cover the inner portion of the EBB shell with anti-seize being careful not to get any on the EBB shell face. Clean with alcohol if you do.

    11. With each EBB 1/2 lying "face down" on your work bench, cover the lip of the EBB that contacts the EBB shell face with blue loc-tite. Let it air dry on the bench about 1/2 way.

    12. Carefully line each 1/2 of the EBB where the white dot is about 20 degrees "behind" the sharpie mark. Tighten the EBB bolt till snug.

    13. Quickly assemble the bottom bracket (if needed) and crankset to factory specifications. Install the chain.

    14. Loosen the EBB just enough till it will turn. You might need to loosen the crankarm if it won't turn easily.

    15. Now, while keeping the long 6mm hex socket (or hex wrench if you don't have a long socket) engaged into the bolt head (non-drive side), carefully turn the crank till it "pushes against" the hex wrench/socket. You might want to use a rag to prevent scratching your crank. Carefully do this till you tension the chain. Niner guys told me that tightening this way helps to keep the EBBs 1/2's in alignment better. Turn the EBB till the dots you marked line up again.

    16. Tighten the EBB till you reach 216 lbs of torque. Tighten the BB (if needed) to spec. Do the same to the cranks. Leave that puppy to sit overnight.

    Wake up the next day and ride a quiet bike. I finally have a SS Niner that rides as quiet as it does well otherwise. I've readjusted the EBB once to put on a smaller cog and it still worked great after tightening to my spec. I don't really know which of these things is the key. I know I had absolutely no luck with teflon tape and 190 in-lbs or the same torque value and greasing the EBB. If you are installing the new Biocentric EBB on an old set screw frame and it still creaks, measure the inside diameter of your EBB shell both at the set screw and elsewhere. Mine was out by 1mm and ovalized. Your frame will not work with the Biocentric. Sorry.

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by chuckc1971; 08-30-2010 at 04:37 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by scyule
    driver bob..............

    Reading your last post made me think
    "Sram crank, and sram ring and....."suddenly I could see in my minds eye, those alloy chainring bolts and I ran out to the garage and TIGHTENED them and went sprinting down the road.......

    Chain ring bolts..
    With all this talk about NINER EBBs I failed to consider the things I would have considered on any other bike..

    THANKS
    WAHOO !!! Glad I was able to help.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckc1971
    Alrighty, here is what I did to finally quiet my new Biocentric EBB. Your installation might vary a bit based on your bottom bracket choice. I'm running a Hive FifteenG crankset which allows the installation of each BB 'half' independent of the other. So, I could install the BB on the bike or at the bench easily and do all the steps below without messing with the BB again.

    Materials needed:

    - sharpie
    - Permatex Anti-Seize
    - bottle of alcohol
    - clean rags
    - torque wrench (inch-lb preferably, but you can convert from ft-lbs)
    - 6mm hex socket (I found a long shaft one from harbor freight)
    - 6mm long allen wrench (if you don't have a long 6mm hex socket)
    - fine tooth file (optional)
    - medium grit sandpaper (I used 120 grit if I remember correctly)
    - sanding block
    - q-tips


    1. With the sharpie, fully 'color' the EBB shell face that comes into contact with the EBB lip. Now, sand the face of the EBB shell face with either a file and/or sandpaper. Make sure you go in one direction and perfectly flat against the shell face . Sand slowly till the ink is gone. Clean with alcohol.

    2. If not already, chamfer the EBB shell to 45 degrees as specified by Niner. I have a deburring tool (available from Harbor Freight) which did this evenly and perfectly. Clean with alcohol.

    3. Carefully sand (with loose sandpaper) both of the actual EBB surfaces that come into contact with the EBB shell especially the inside lip. This will take a while and is greatly enhanced if you use a bench vise.

    4. Per Niner directions, drill the relief where the bolt shoulder rests against the non-drive side EBB. Clean the EBB with alcohol thoroughly.

    5. Install the EBB dry and tighten snug. Install your bottom bracket till snug if you haven't already. Now, install the crankset to snug as well.

    6. Measure and remove enough links of your chain to allow tensioning within the throw of the EBB. With your chain fitted and your chainline perfect, loosen the EBB bolt and rotate the EBB per Niner recommendations till the chain is almost tight with just a bit of movement when pushed up and down. Tighten the EBB and double check the chain tension.

    7. On the non-drive side, place a line with the sharpie on the EBB shell that corresponds with the while dot on the outside lip of the EBB.

    8. Disassemble your crankset (and possibly your bottom bracket). Now, loosen the EBB bolt. Guess what: clean everything yet again.

    9. Grease the shoulder where your previously did the relief drilling for the EBB bolt. A Q-tip would work well here. Slide the bolt into place. Do not grease the bolt threads. If the threadlock is pretty much gone, use blue locktite during the final install later.

    10. Using fresh q-tips, cover the inner portion of the EBB shell with anti-seize being careful not to get any on the EBB shell face. Clean with alcohol if you do.

    11. With each EBB 1/2 lying "face down" on your work bench, cover the lip of the EBB that contacts the EBB shell face with blue loc-tite. Let it air dry on the bench about 1/2 way.

    12. Carefully line each 1/2 of the EBB where the white dot is about 20 degrees "behind" the sharpie mark. Tighten the EBB bolt till snug.

    13. Quickly assemble the bottom bracket (if needed) and crankset to factory specifications. Install the chain.

    14. Loosen the EBB just enough till it will turn. You might need to loosen the crankarm if it won't turn easily.

    15. Now, while keeping the long 6mm hex socket (or hex wrench if you don't have a long socket) engaged into the bolt head (non-drive side), carefully turn the crank till it "pushes against" the hex wrench/socket. You might want to use a rag to prevent scratching your crank. Carefully do this till you tension the chain. Niner guys told me that tightening this way helps to keep the EBBs 1/2's in alignment better. Turn the EBB till the dots you marked line up again.

    16. Tighten the EBB till you reach 216 lbs of torque. Tighten the BB (if needed) to spec. Do the same to the cranks. Leave that puppy to sit overnight.

    Wake up the next day and ride a quiet bike. I finally have a SS Niner that rides as quiet as it does well otherwise. I've readjusted the EBB once to put on a smaller cog and it still worked great after tightening to my spec. I don't really know which of these things is the key. I know I had absolutely no luck with teflon tape and 190 in-lbs or the same torque value and greasing the EBB. If you are installing the new Biocentric EBB on an old set screw frame and it still creaks, measure the inside diameter of your EBB shell both at the set screw and elsewhere. Mine was out by 1mm and ovalized. Your frame will not work with the Biocentric. Sorry.

    Hope this helps!

    It was post like these that made go with Bushnell instead on my One 9. No noises for me!

  16. #16
    Underskilled
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    peeps it is a Whetstone, not wet stone.

    Apart from that I cannot help =-(
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  17. #17
    PSYCHOLUST
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    whet   /ʰwɛt, wɛt/ Show Spelled [hwet, wet] Show IPA verb, whet·ted, whet·ting, noun
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to sharpen (a knife, tool, etc.) by grinding or friction.
    2. to make keen or eager; stimulate: to whet the appetite; to whet the curiosity.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebInt
    It was post like these that made go with Bushnell instead on my One 9. No noises for me!
    Will a bushnell ebb work on a newer one9 frame?? I'm done and have tried everything since I got the frame in december and am not up for new ideas or fixes. I've had the best luck with antiseize but it continues to creak.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebInt
    It was post like these that made go with Bushnell instead on my One 9. No noises for me!
    Will a bushnell ebb work on a newer one9 frame?? I'm done and have tried everything since I got the frame in december and am not up for new ideas or fixes. I've had the best luck with antiseize but it continues to creak.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtberic
    Will a bushnell ebb work on a newer one9 frame?? I'm done and have tried everything since I got the frame in december and am not up for new ideas or fixes. I've had the best luck with antiseize but it continues to creak.
    I tried one of the Carver squeakproof EBBs which didn't squeak, but it sure did slip on my set screw model One9. The problem is that the Carver (and likely the Bushnell as well) is that it will only have a small portion of the lip to tighten up against. The Carver tensioned against all but the outer ~1/4" lip of each side of the EBB shell. The lip on the Niner One9 is only the outer ~3/8" or so. In effect, there is less than 1/4" on each side to tension the EBB against.

    @mtberic: try my method. I've retensioned the EBB 3-4x now (cog replacement, new chain, chain stretch, etc.) and it's still whisper quiet.

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