Jet9 rear suspension help...
Hi all, I recently finished building up a (practically new) 2011 Jet9 that I bought on ebay. After four rides on it, I can't seem to come to terms with the rear suspension. On my first ride, I set the sag at the minimum recommended setting of 9mm. It took a lot of effort just to get the thing to compress (with pro-pedal turned off). I left the trail very disappointed. Went back home and increased the sag to the max (11mm) and it instantly made the rear end more active. I've toyed with the rebound, and based on a recommendation, set it at four clicks out from the slowest setting. Again, a big improvement, as I had the rebound initially set at about 7 or 8 clicks out. With the 9mm of sag, this setting made the bike feel like it was trying to buck me off of it.
That has made the bike ridable, but it still isn't what I call "efficient". The rear seems to bounce off of stuff rather than stick to it. It just doesn't want to bite the trail. The initial stroke is just really harsh. I'm running a 100mm Fox F32RL, I weigh 175lbs, and I ride rock/root strewn singletrack. No big drops or jumps, just trail riding. I'm coming off of a Superlight that I built back in 2005. Again, I love my new build, I just think that the rear suspension is simply too harsh and unresponsive. I know this isn't a long-travel plush scooter, but I think it shouldn't be as harsh as it is, either.
Bottom line: I'd be interested in hearing what some of your suspension settings are. I only have four rides on this thing, so I know I haven't done due diligence as it concerns settings. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to panic and send my shock off for a $175 re-valve without covering all of the bases.
Sounds like you're doing the right things and just don't like the feel of the stock shock, maybe a lower-compression PUSH tune is in order? Unless the shock is not the stock tune (replaced by former owner?) or it's broken (not likely since that usually means no damping at all) there isn't much to adjust on that unit.
I really like the ride of that bike BECAUSE it's firm, I like a plusher ride on my longer travel bikes. But that's just me, I can understand why some folks go the PUSH route.
PS - I still love that album.
I'm running my rebound the same as you, 4 clicks over which is right in the middle, and run 160 psi in the shock. Works great for me so far!
P.S. I'm 185 without gear.....
I rode mine with my body weight in Ib x .66
Also how wide are your tyres & what presser are you running in them ??
It is an 80 mm travel bike so there will be some compermise to what you want to do.
I liked my Jet9 Alloy but liked the Rip9 alloy alot more.
Thanks for the replies!
I weigh 175 and I currently have the shock at 110. This gives me about 11mm of sag, which is the max Niner recommends. I'm running 2.25 tires, the rear is pumped up to 30lbs. I'm going back out today to try some more settings. With a short travel shock, I know that small changes go a long way.
If we go with the NoTubes starting suggestion for tubeless air pressure, the formula would be your weight divided by 7 to get the starting psi. Then subtract 1 pound of psi for the front tire and add 1-2 pounds of psi for the rear tire. 24 psi for your front Ralph, and 26-27 psi for your rear Ralph would be an excellent starting point (I weigh 5-10 pounds more than you and use even lower psi's on my JET tires than that).
Originally Posted by DoctorJD
I can pretty much guarantee that will soften up your rear end suspension feel and help keep you glued to the trail so the bike's suspension can do it's work. I would even suggest going a pound or so lower as Stan's starting point is based on a lower volume tire than the Ralph 2.25. Depending on the tire(s), pressures in the 19 psi - 24 psi range work really well for me on the JET (and the RIP).
I set my sag in the 25-33% range as I want it set so I am getting enough travel to just about knock the O-Ring off the lower portion on big hits.
You didn't mention if the ProPedal was being used or if you had it set in the Open position. And you didn't mention if you had it set on 1 (light), 2 (medium), or 3 (firm). On my JET 9, if I want it to closely mimic a HT, I use the ProPedal and would go for a firmer setting (3). I leave it Open for a more plush ride. And there is quite a difference on my bike with the settings I used between Open and ProPedal. I've also tried it with the ProPedal set on the lightest setting and medium setting, but I like having the option of my Open and ProPedal settings being quite noticeable. But I'm not married to any one setting as I will change it based on how my back feels, the course, or the duration I will be riding.
I will agree with Muzz - if I want more cushion and travel, I hop on the RIP as the JET is really an XC weapon. A hardtail with privileges so to speak (due to the shorter travel). The best way to "plush" it up is through tire selection and psi. Larger volume tires really soften it up. A 2.4 or 2.35 up front and rear is "oh, so nice....".
Originally Posted by BruceBrown
I toyed with tire pressure this weekend, lowering both the front and rear tire pressures slightly (26F, 28R). I've been running Stan's for years on my old Superlight, but for some reason, I've been scared to get the tire pressure down to the levels I was running on that bike (24F, 26R). That little 2psi change paid dividends, much more controllable on the rear. One more note: After a couple of rides this weekend, I'm still noticing that I'm about 6-8mm from bottoming on the rear shock, but I'm scared to go any lower on the shock pressure.
I debated between the RIP and the JET, but ultimately decided that the JET more suits my style of riding. I have not regretted that decision. This thing dices-up tight single-track like my old Superlight. It corners like it's on rails and it climbs like mad. I really like the bike, I like it so much that I'm not convinced that my suspension issues are a product of bike design. Like I said earlier, I'm not close to bottoming this thing out, so it's not the amount of travel that I have, its how the travel I have, behaves. Oh, ProPedal. I haven't engaged ProPedal yet, it's been in the "open" position since day-one.
I'm riding again tomorrow night, and I'm going to drop the tire pressure down to my old settings. I have a feeling that this will make a measurable difference.
Originally Posted by muzzanic
I have been looking at the forum a lot the last few weeks (AC sepration surgery no riding) and have been concidering a rip. What do you like about the rip better than the jet? Does it handle as good in tight woods as the jet? I have my jet set up with a 120 fork for 6 months now and like the handling better on down hills for sure. I think the slacker angle on the head was some of this. On 100mm it is quick but squirrelly on fast down hill.
Here in north GA we climb a lot and then down hill I too have found the back end of the jet a little hard and travel short too. I ride about 185 and set the shock at 125-130. Most rides the oring is off the bottom before the end of the ride. Tire pressure is at 28.
I read niner had revalved the shock on the new jet 9's and would like to know how it is different and is it better. I think this was on the 2012 model year so this makes me think someone else also had issues with the rear besides us DoctorDJ.
All this is a huge subject in it's self, So I will try to keep it short.
The things I liked most about the Rip9 over the Jet9 was grip & for giving ness.
When you make a small mistke on the Rip9 you seem to get away with it & no loss in time.
I'm not bagging on the Jet9 but IMO on XC type tracks the Rip9 just doesn't seem to give up much to the Jet9 ( In a 12 hour event with 8km laps ) I was lapping in the same lap times on the Rip9 as the Jet9, There was no ruff sections, no long climbs or fast down hills.
The laps on the Jet9 felt faster & the bike felt more alive but the faster times just were not there.
Now if there were long climbs the Jet9 may have pulled some time & if there were some ruff fast down hills the Rip9 would have pulled time.
So if you do easy smoothish trails the Jet9 may not be much faster but it does feel more alive & faster than the Rip9.
But here is the thing IMO with the Rip9, Because it doesn't feel like you are on the limit like the Jet9, you just push it harder & try more things because you can get away with treating it with less respect.
The Rip9 lifed my riding more than any bike I have owned.
So if you ride were there are lots of ruffer & more challanging trails, The Rip9 really is a bike that will reward you.
The Jet9 will still do a good job of those trails & better than most bikes I have ridden, but the Rip9 just wipes the Floor when it gets on that type of stuff.
If someone wasn't doing harder tracks or if they didn't like pushing there own limits all the time then they just wouldn't get what it is I like about the Rip9.
So you do have to think what it is that you are looking for.
Sometimes that answer can come from looking at the tyres you have on your bike.
If you have fast rolling lower grip tyres on your bike, Then maybe the Jet9 is the right bike for you.
If your bike has big grippy tyres on it the it may well be that the Rip9 is a better bike for you.
Originally Posted by Andy17
Let me add a bit, maybe even try to simplify all of that. I should add, I like both of the bikes (JET 9 aluminum and RIP 9 aluminum).
Originally Posted by muzzanic
Take a basic 6" to 8" bump in the trail and run both bikes over it. As an example, I can run straight over the curb (up it or down it) out in front of my house. On the JET, I say to myself "that wasn't too bad and I'm glad I've got FS". On the RIP, I say to myself "was that a curb I just went over because I barely felt it?"
Obviously, that simplification just illustrates the amount of suspension difference between the two, but out on the trail all the bumps add up. The RIP will keep my body fresher for a longer period of time than my lesser travel bikes. Now the new RIP carbon with 130mm front and rear will just go one step more with the added cushion and keep the weight down.
Back to the JET 9 - it is my main XC race bike as it is nimble, fast, climbs better for me than the RIP (which is also nimble and fast as I have the version with the steeper head tube angle before they slackened it out a bit). My JET 9 is about 1.5 pounds lighter in frame alone than the alloy RIP. The RIP feels and rides "burly" and "confident" - probably more appropriate weight/ratio wise for a guy my size who rides size XL.
And as Muzz said - turning lap times are pretty much the same, regardless of what it "feels" like while riding.
That being said, I'm pretty much only riding my SS Karate Monkey this time of year - so I've forgotten what supsension in the rear feels like.
Just a note when looking at the oring on the rear shock, If you get a chance to go over 1 of you bigger drops stop & push the oring up & then check were it is stright after ther drop.
I find with constant hits that the weight of the oring will make it move down on hits even if the shock isn't touching it, By checking it at the end of a ride you may think you are using more travel than you are.
Thank you guys! RIP sounds better and better. I don't think I would sell the jet but I would like to add a RIP. And yes the RIP RDO would be nice but I think I will try a used alum first.
I have 2.2 Bronsons on the jet big fat grippy tires. So I guess the rip would fit me good. I liked that.
Thanks again guys!
Rear Shock Removal
I am trying to remove the Float 29 rear shock from my Jet 9 and am having problems. Are you able to take this off without removing the rear triangle bearings? i took out the top and bottom bolts, but the spacers seem to hold the shock in place.
any help would be appreciated.
I have the same problem on my '11 Jet. I have read in pro reviews that the '11 had intentionally stiff (high) compression damping, something Niner has changed for '12 and onward. PUSH charges for the cost of valving and re-build, so it's pricey if you don't need a rebuild and/or can do one yourself (it's easy and cheap). Fox, on the other hand, will re-set your compression wherever you want it for between $20-$40. I'm having my compression set to light, and will use the propedal when I need it for long climbs. Like you, I haven't used propedal at all, since the shock is so stiff, and I'm also running quite a bit more sag than what's recommended.
Good idea, never occurred to me to send it back to Fox
Originally Posted by mschnei
PUSH was going to be expensive, and largely unnecessary. Yea, I'm running my sag a tad bit more than recommended also, and I'm running my tire pressure really low. That's helped a bunch, but I don't think I'm able to utilize the full capabilities of the shock (ProPedal) in it's current setup.
I too was unhappy with the valving on my '11 JET. Sent it to PUSH for the "light" compression tune and it's made a huge difference. If feels more like a 100mm travel bike and the rear stays glued on the rocky climbs I use this bike for.