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Thread: Jet9 RDO woe

  1. #1
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    Jet9 RDO woe

    Got my RDO back in January, moved my nearly new Shimano XTR drive train 9sp, triple over and had one good ride so far where the shifting wasn't a complete nightmare. The front derailleur shift is a manual-matic process of moving the shifter, then dismounting the bike to manually lift the chain to the next bigger chain ring.

    The rear dérailleur just ghost shifts constantly, my shop has tried all new cables and housings twice and shortening and lengthening the housing to no effect. <sigh>.

    I am actively trying to sell my XTR drive train to replace it with SRAM as that seems to work for the other RDO owners in my area.

    Good news is that last night Niner responded that there is a shift upgrade kit available for the RDO to address issues.

    Has anyone had similar issues? How did you fix it? Did you install this kit?

  2. #2
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    Bummer to hear the shop wrenches are having trouble with it. My wife's RDO maiden voyage was a rough one but it was entirely down to me cutting the rear housing too short. After I went through and did it right the second time (removed shock, cycled suspension to make sure the housing was long enough but not TOO long) it's been great. Her front shifting has always been perfect. Maybe it's a SRAM vs. SHIMANO issue? It might be that one is more sensitive to setup than the other.

    Hope they get it sorted out for you, sounds frustrating.

    JMH

  3. #3
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    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it sounds like you need a new mechanic and not a new component group.
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    Really was hoping to hear that this Niner shift kit cured someone's woes with Shimano. Maybe someone could explain what is in the shift kit and what it is going to do help cure the issue.

    I can't be the only one if Niner has created a shift kit. Obviously addressing a real need and a demand.
    Last edited by FASTK; 04-09-2012 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FASTK View Post
    Really was hoping to hear that his Niner shift kit cured someone's woes with Shimano. Maybe someone could explain what is in the shift kit and what it is going to help cure the issue.

    I can't be the only one if Niner has created a shift kit. Obviously addressing a real need and a demand.
    What chain are you running ?

    I have found with a KMC chain you have to be closer with your setup or it doesn;t change as nice as a XTR chain.

    But other than that had no problems ( with 4 RDO's ), That said all needed to have the derailieur hanger setup square before I could get nice changing.

    On all bikes I go back after 3 of 4 weeks of riding when things have settled down & reset the hanger.

    I think your luck will change when you get someone good to look at it, If they cant even get the front shifting right there is little hope of them working out the back.

    Also check that the free hub has no play.
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  6. #6
    Daniel the Dog
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    XTR doesn't work with Niner. Sorry. Please send it to me right away.

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    Muzzanic< can you tell me more about aligning the RD as i have not had any problems with my XT set up
    but for a 10 speed it does seem lumpy when changing gears????

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBkid SA View Post
    Muzzanic< can you tell me more about aligning the RD as i have not had any problems with my XT set up
    but for a 10 speed it does seem lumpy when changing gears????
    Maybe the best tool a mtb rider can own.

    With your rear wheel in & done up tite, You undo the rear derailieur from the frame & screw in the tool.

    You adjust the rod in to just touch the rim( I start at the top of the wheel & use the valve stem as my point of reference ), then slide the adjuster unit in towards the wheel, Then turn the tool around the wheel 90 deg & then spin the wheel so that the valve is now at that point 90 deg from were we started ( The reason I allway spin the wheel & check were the valve is, Is because if the wheel isn't stright it wont through out your check ) As you slide the adjuster part of the tool to the rim you will see if the tool tryes to over lap the rim or has a gap.

    Then repeat around another 90 deg & now you will see if the hanger is stright or if it needs a small bend.

    If needed ( & I'm sure it will, you use the tool to bend the hanger little bits at a time ) untill the rod just touches the rim at 0 deg ,90 deg , 180 deg.

    This make any bike change gear so much better.

    Hope this helps.
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  9. #9
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    indeed, one of the best tools available!

    Anytime I've got a shifting/ghosting issue that a simple cable adjustment won't resolve, I break this baby out and 9 out of 10 times, there'll be a hanger to frame alignment issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Maybe the best tool a mtb rider can own.

    With your rear wheel in & done up tite, You undo the rear derailieur from the frame & screw in the tool.

    You adjust the rod in to just touch the rim( I start at the top of the wheel & use the valve stem as my point of reference ), then slide the adjuster unit in towards the wheel, Then turn the tool around the wheel 90 deg & then spin the wheel so that the valve is now at that point 90 deg from were we started ( The reason I allway spin the wheel & check were the valve is, Is because if the wheel isn't stright it wont through out your check ) As you slide the adjuster part of the tool to the rim you will see if the tool tryes to over lap the rim or has a gap.

    Then repeat around another 90 deg & now you will see if the hanger is stright or if it needs a small bend.

    If needed ( & I'm sure it will, you use the tool to bend the hanger little bits at a time ) untill the rod just touches the rim at 0 deg ,90 deg , 180 deg.

    This make any bike change gear so much better.

    Hope this helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Maybe the best tool a mtb rider can own.

    With your rear wheel in & done up tite, You undo the rear derailieur from the frame & screw in the tool.

    You adjust the rod in to just touch the rim( I start at the top of the wheel & use the valve stem as my point of reference ), then slide the adjuster unit in towards the wheel, Then turn the tool around the wheel 90 deg & then spin the wheel so that the valve is now at that point 90 deg from were we started ( The reason I allway spin the wheel & check were the valve is, Is because if the wheel isn't stright it wont through out your check ) As you slide the adjuster part of the tool to the rim you will see if the tool tryes to over lap the rim or has a gap.

    Then repeat around another 90 deg & now you will see if the hanger is stright or if it needs a small bend.

    If needed ( & I'm sure it will, you use the tool to bend the hanger little bits at a time ) untill the rod just touches the rim at 0 deg ,90 deg , 180 deg.

    This make any bike change gear so much better.

    Hope this helps.
    Excellent advice... Ive had an ever so slightly bent hanger cause issues on my own bike as well as on friends bikes. If you can't do this procedure on your own, I believe most local shops can do it for a low price ($10 around here). Without a straight hanger you'll lose your mind trying to get proper shifting!
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  11. #11
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    Option to an alignment tool... Assuming the rear derailure hanger in question is replaceable (as most are these days), just keep a fresh spare - and whenever your rear derailure gets too finicky swap the old hanger for a new one. If the problem goes away, there you have it.

    Not that I wouldn't like having that nifty gadget. I'm a sucker for tools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Option to an alignment tool... Assuming the rear derailure hanger in question is replaceable (as most are these days), just keep a fresh spare - and whenever your rear derailure gets too finicky swap the old hanger for a new one. If the problem goes away, there you have it.

    Not that I wouldn't like having that nifty gadget. I'm a sucker for tools.


    Replacing a new hanger with a new hanger isn't going to change anything.

    I'm yet to see a new hanger on any bike be 100 % true to the wheel.
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  13. #13
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    Ok...

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post


    Replacing a new hanger with a new hanger isn't going to change anything.

    I'm yet to see a new hanger on any bike be 100 % true to the wheel.
    I was thinking of when the "suspect hanger" may have been in a bit of a banger. That said, the real tool is likely the best way to go.

  14. #14
    Daniel the Dog
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    I bet the cable are run wrong through that goofy cable system.

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    I think Andrea and Muzzazinc are right--needs a fresh set of hands to look at it, including cable running. Should be no problems with a nearly new XTR 9sp setup (assuming cables and housing are new). My 2x10 and my wife's 3x10 work beautifully.
    The poster formerly known as 800_lb_gorilla

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    Since I've been riding a RIP I can see Niner knows what they are doing as it's a great bike. However, I think their cable routing is overly complex. Maybe Niner is looking at this thread and will take note. Maybe just running the routing under the bottom of the TT and down the rear seat stays (for the rear der. and brake) would be more direct. Specialized's method of routing everything under the downtube gives the cleanest look but takes more cable and its not the most direct. That method does give the added benefit of allowing the cable to act as sort of "protector" for rocks thrown up at the down tube from the front tire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FASTK View Post
    Got my RDO back in January, moved my nearly new Shimano XTR drive train 9sp, triple over and had one good ride so far where the shifting wasn't a complete nightmare. The front derailleur shift is a manual-matic process of moving the shifter, then dismounting the bike to manually lift the chain to the next bigger chain ring.

    The rear dérailleur just ghost shifts constantly, my shop has tried all new cables and housings twice and shortening and lengthening the housing to no effect. <sigh>.

    I am actively trying to sell my XTR drive train to replace it with SRAM as that seems to work for the other RDO owners in my area.

    Good news is that last night Niner responded that there is a shift upgrade kit available for the RDO to address issues.

    Has anyone had similar issues? How did you fix it? Did you install this kit?
    On my first RDO ride this weekend the bike was ghost shifting (in the rear) a lot at first. I had pretty carefully cut the housing to a length that I thought would be perfect. But no... it seemed way too short and caused ghost shifting when the suspension compressed heavily.

    Then it just stopped. When I checked it out on the trail I noticed that the little cable inserts that go into the chainstay where the housing enters had slipped out. I shoved a wee bit of the housing loop at the rear derailleur into the chainstay to give more slack under the BB then put the inserts back in to keep the housing in place. It's been good since. With the housing able to move a little it sort of "found" how much slack it needed under the BB.

    Just a thought before you rip the housing out. See if you have any slack to spare at the derailleur and shove it in.

    No idea what this shift kit thing is but I'm curious.

  18. #18
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    Thanks all for the suggestions, Niner shipped the shift upgrade kit out on Friday, I'll let you know what it is soonest and try to snap a photo too. Shop is now checking RD alignment as suggested here.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    What chain are you running ?

    I have found with a KMC chain you have to be closer with your setup or it doesn;t change as nice as a XTR chain.

    But other than that had no problems ( with 4 RDO's ), That said all needed to have the derailieur hanger setup square before I could get nice changing.

    On all bikes I go back after 3 of 4 weeks of riding when things have settled down & reset the hanger.

    I think your luck will change when you get someone good to look at it, If they cant even get the front shifting right there is little hope of them working out the back.

    Also check that the free hub has no play.
    Running Shimano's XT chain.

    BTW, I also have a Niner RIP setup with 9sp XTR, it runs perfectly. Its been keeping me riding while the RDO is at the shop.

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    shifting woes

    I also have been unsuccessful at getting the RD (SRAM X0, 10speed) to swift well on my RDO. I did my cables as per Niner website. I meticulously measured & re-measured the rear housing length and then used the small plastic inserts that "fix" the housing within the chainstay. Result: no ghost shifting, but shifting was very slow & took lots of extra half-shifts to get adequate RD movement.

    My mechanic reworks all the cables, & this time skips using the small plastic inserts on chainstay -- says he was informed that they were not necessary. Results: shifting response is better (not good), and now there is ghost shifting with heavy rear suspension travel.

    Question to others: did you use these inserts that "fix" the housing within the chainstay, or skip this to allow the rear housing to "float"?

    I will have to inquire about this shifting fix kit & recheck RD alignment.

  21. #21
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    Here the aforementioned Niner RDO shift upgrade kit for my Jet9 RDO. Looks like plastic tube and plastic grommets for the frame holes.



    Won't be installed until later today or tomorrow, hoping and praying for a good outcome.

  22. #22
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    Ninerds -

    We at Niner appreciate your feedback and input when it comes to our bikes - it is based on this feedback that we have created a Shift Kit for the Jet 9 RDO. This kit is designed to make your bike set up easier by eliminating the need to determine rear triangle housing length.

    This kit includes a 110mm piece of 4mm shift housing and two ferrules that are designed specifically to fit into the chainstay. You will then have bare cable inside the chainstay.

    These kits are ready to send out to anyone that currently owns a Jet9 RDO - shipped on request to your dealer, at no charge. If you do not have a dealer nearby (or distributor if you are not in the USA & Canada), send a self addressed stamped envelope to:

    NINER BIKES
    ATTN: Jet9RDO Shift Kit
    1611 S College Ave Unit 202
    Ft. Collins, CO 80525

    We recommend that everyone with a Jet9 RDO uses this kit, it makes set-up and tuning precise and trouble free.


    Thank you for oyur support.

    Thanks,
    Ralph
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  23. #23
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    Ok RDO Owners,

    Got my RDO back from the shop with the shift upgrade kit installed. Everything working well during my 10 minute test ride. I can now understand where the issue was in the chain stay. The shift kit reremoved about 18 inches of cable housing.

    My FD is fast and smooth, not related to the shift kit, just better setup. The RD is now clicking cleanly into gear is much less effort at the shifter.

    The real test will come this Saturday, so I'll update then as well but so far so good.

  24. #24
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    Good to hear! Now let's ride!

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    How do you have setup the shiftercables in the badge btw?

    Do you have them crossed or not?

    Let me explain what i mean. If you sit on the bike does your rearshifter cable go in the hole in badge on the left or the richt.

    I am asking this because if you cross the cables they also cross internally in the frame. Does this effect shifting or not?

    I have installed them non-crossed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sand0kan View Post
    How do you have setup the shiftercables in the badge btw?

    Do you have them crossed or not?

    Let me explain what i mean. If you sit on the bike does your rearshifter cable go in the hole in badge on the left or the richt.

    I am asking this because if you cross the cables they also cross internally in the frame. Does this effect shifting or not?

    I have installed them non-crossed.
    My 1 is crossed & my wifes 1 isn't & they both shift fine.
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  27. #27
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    Muzzanic the RDO wikipedia

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    Crossed at the head badge

  29. #29
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    The new maiden voyage on the trail with the RDO went fine. The shifting difference is night and day. Use the Niner shift upgrade kit.

    Thanks all for your responses!

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    thats funny stuff: The Upgrade Kit upgrades your new bike from not working to working. We recommend it!
    here we go again

  31. #31
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    My jet rdo works great as it is but ill more than happily get a free upgrade to make it better!

  32. #32
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    I am going to leave mine "AS IS" with the rear der shifter cable housing in the chain stay. Not having any issues at all (SRAM X0) and it will make it easier when the time comes to replace the the shifter cable to feed in the new one through the existing housing.

  33. #33
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    I remember reading somewhere there is a video that shows the technique to feed cables into badge to derailleurs. Anyone?
    2012 Niner Jet 9 RDO (Tang, XTR groupo)
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  34. #34
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    Jet 9 RDO Cable Installation - YouTube


    Although this one shows cable housing the complete length of the chain stay.

  35. #35
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    Updated RDO cable install video ..

    Niner Tech: Jet 9 RDO Cable Installation - YouTube

  36. #36
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    My RDO update - Took a trip south for 4 days of mountain biking. Had no issues with the shifting since the new shift upgrade kit was installed, loving the new Jet9 RDO.

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    I had to replace rear cable due to fraying when routing through chain stay. Now I am having a hard time routing down main tube out bottom bracket. Anyone have good tips?
    2012 Niner Jet 9 RDO (Tang, XTR groupo)
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffin View Post
    I had to replace rear cable due to fraying when routing through chain stay. Now I am having a hard time routing down main tube out bottom bracket. Anyone have good tips?
    It is easyer to push the thin cable liner that came with the frame up from the bottom to the top, then thread the inner cable through that then remove the liner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    It is easyer to push the thin cable liner that came with the frame up from the bottom to the top, then thread the inner cable through that then remove the liner.
    Liner is gone, but maybe I will try housing.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffin View Post
    Liner is gone, but maybe I will try housing.
    Good call. I use an old scrap of housing, approx 2-3 feet long, for all cable-replacement duties. Speeds things up dramatically.

  41. #41
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    Cable and housing replacement went super smooth using cable housing as a feeder since liners long gone.

    I also learned that 100mm is the correct length to run the short housing from BB to chain stay on a Medium shift kit which is shorter than Niner recommendation. Any longer, the housing binds with travel.
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  42. #42
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    I would not recommend cutting the cable housing any shorter than 110mm. This measurement is very specific and rear shifting will be affected negatively by a piece of housing cut shorter than this. This kit was designed to take the guess work out of the length of housing running under the bottom bracket and to prevent the possibility of ghost shifting when the suspension compresses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes View Post
    I would not recommend cutting the cable housing any shorter than 110mm. This measurement is very specific and rear shifting will be affected negatively by a piece of housing cut shorter than this. This kit was designed to take the guess work out of the length of housing running under the bottom bracket and to prevent the possibility of ghost shifting when the suspension compresses.

    Brad
    I don't see how.

    When I installed the 110mm length, the cable was very twisted into curved bends and got worse when the rear triangle traveled on its arc. Looked smooshed (technical term) like a figure S.

    The 100mm length is truer run into the chain stay from BB and works well with the rear triangle arc without a figure S.

    I put a ferrule on the BB end and your Niner angled ferrule on the chain stay end which may be affecting length.

    I have the older M frame.
    Last edited by duffin; 04-27-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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    Changing a group becauseits not shifting correct? That's is a mechanic issue. I run xtr on my ni.er jet and my Tallboy and it shifts perfect, get someone else to wrench for you

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8crash View Post
    Changing a group becauseits not shifting correct? That's is a mechanic issue. I run xtr on my ni.er jet and my Tallboy and it shifts perfect, get someone else to wrench for you

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    Niner sent him a "shift upgrade kit", and it fixed his problem.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes View Post
    Ninerds -

    We at Niner appreciate your feedback and input when it comes to our bikes - it is based on this feedback that we have created a Shift Kit for the Jet 9 RDO. This kit is designed to make your bike set up easier by eliminating the need to determine rear triangle housing length.

    This kit includes a 110mm piece of 4mm shift housing and two ferrules that are designed specifically to fit into the chainstay. You will then have bare cable inside the chainstay.

    These kits are ready to send out to anyone that currently owns a Jet9 RDO - shipped on request to your dealer, at no charge. If you do not have a dealer nearby (or distributor if you are not in the USA & Canada), send a self addressed stamped envelope to:

    NINER BIKES
    ATTN: Jet9RDO Shift Kit
    1611 S College Ave Unit 202
    Ft. Collins, CO 80525

    We recommend that everyone with a Jet9 RDO uses this kit, it makes set-up and tuning precise and trouble free.


    Thank you for oyur support.

    Thanks,
    Ralph


    My RDO frame came with 8 ferrules in a bag. Can I just use 2 of them and my own 110mm piece of Jagwire Ripcord cable housing instead? That's essential the same thing, correct? In fact, does that say "Jagwire" in the image? The resolution's too low to tell.

  47. #47
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    Yes - also consider a durable housing ferrule where cable comes out of bottom bracket.
    2012 Niner Jet 9 RDO (Tang, XTR groupo)
    2011 Giant Reign 2 (XT groupo)

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes View Post
    I would not recommend cutting the cable housing any shorter than 110mm. This measurement is very specific and rear shifting will be affected negatively by a piece of housing cut shorter than this. This kit was designed to take the guess work out of the length of housing running under the bottom bracket and to prevent the possibility of ghost shifting when the suspension compresses.

    Brad
    Well I don't know who is researching this optimal length for the cable between frame and triangle, but I don't think that it is quite figured out yet.....

    I got the "shift kit" provided by Niner and installed it as part of a rebuild. The 110mm (didn't measure it) segment of housing looked to be about 10mm shorter (didn't measure this difference either) than the previously exposed section of full CS length cable it was replacing. The result is ghost shift downshift and back attempt near the end of the suspension travel, and is worst when say pedaling through a g-out roller. This suspension cycling shifting action can be replicated on the stand with the shock removed too
    And while I sorta like the idea of the short segment vs full CS length housing, on my bike it appears that a longer segment is needed. Replacing it tonight with a longer peice- not a task in itself
    FWIW YMMV RDO'ers

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
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    Jun 2010
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    As a quick follow-up to my mini-rant from this morning.
    I changed out the 110mm piece of Shimano housing that came with the grommets from Niner as the "kit" with 120mm of Jagwire that I had originally built with full length.
    Two observations: 1) the Shimano housing is MUCH more rigid/less pliable than the Jag and even though longer it was much easier to install- the short Shimano was a struggle, Jag a breeze despite being longer and 2) after putting in 120mm of Jag and cycling the rear through it's travel the housing appears much more still and not moving nearly as much as before especially near full stroke. Driveway test ride shifting was flawless....trails tomorrow , but I have no reason to expect a problem

    So, while 110 may be recommended, in my experience 120 looks to work better, and maybe more importantly using a good grade housing is required.

  50. #50
    lamer
    Reputation: llamma's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
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    ^ I'll be completing my RDO build by doing the cabling today. Did you have much trouble getting the Jagwire housing into the special Niner ferrules? Mine seems almost too large of a diameter to fit into the ferrule. Not only is Shimano housing more rigid/less pliable, but it seems to be smaller in diameter, too.

    Also, when routing the external housing from the shifters during the initial install did you cross the cables across the head badge like Niner recommends? If so, were the plastic guide tubes already crossed as well? My guide tubes are not, and I can't figure out why Niner would tell us to do this and then install the guide tubes the wrong way.

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