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Thread: Jet9 RDO woe

  1. #51
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by llamma View Post
    ^ I'll be completing my RDO build by doing the cabling today. Did you have much trouble getting the Jagwire housing into the special Niner ferrules? Mine seems almost too large of a diameter to fit into the ferrule. Not only is Shimano housing more rigid/less pliable, but it seems to be smaller in diameter, too.

    Also, when routing the external housing from the shifters during the initial install did you cross the cables across the head badge like Niner recommends? If so, were the plastic guide tubes already crossed as well? My guide tubes are not, and I can't figure out why Niner would tell us to do this and then install the guide tubes the wrong way.
    Hi
    I have mine crossed & my wifes ones are not, My friends bike didn't have them cross & he does lots of miles & found that all the tuning was just to much for the non crossed cables & they needed replacing before time.

    easyest way to work out what inner cable tube to use is just pull it back & forward a bit at both ends & it is easy to work out which is which.

    I fit shimano ends on Jag wire cable outer all the time with no problems. Check that you have gear cable & not brake cable, The brake cable outer is bigger.

  2. #52
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    llama- I can't help you regarding crossing as I'm running 1x
    The Niner ferrules are snug on Jag housing- on one of my ends I actually peeled 1cm of clear/cosmetic layer off as it was burred and it fit a bit easier. The other I just forced in anyways- but yea- you def want it well seated lest you have an adjustment problem when it does settle in. I also used one of the Jag sheathed cable ends at the RDR end. I used one at the frame end last go round and the sheath had separated from cable end after 1k miles but wasn't hurting my shifting.

  3. #53
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    Noclutch, thanks for the confirmation


    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Hi
    I have mine crossed & my wifes ones are not, My friends bike didn't have them cross & he does lots of miles & found that all the tuning was just to much for the non crossed cables & they needed replacing before time.

    easyest way to work out what inner cable tube to use is just pull it back & forward a bit at both ends & it is easy to work out which is which.

    I fit shimano ends on Jag wire cable outer all the time with no problems. Check that you have gear cable & not brake cable, The brake cable outer is bigger.
    I'm assuming meant "all the turning" because I had already guessed there would be a lot of strain on the cable housings if I didn't cross them. I already know that my guide tube on the drive side of the head badge comes out on the drive side of the BB, which is the opposite of what Niner recommends. I guess I'll just need to drop my fork and swap the guide tubes around from inside the head tube. Thanks for the info. As for the ferrules/ends, I'm referring to the special Niner "frame end stop ferrules" that come with the frame. They're shown in Niner's shift kit picture earlier in the thread. They're needed in the head badge and the chain stay.

  4. #54
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    For anyone that cares, I ended up dropping the fork and swapping the guide tubes around so that the cables cross. I had to drill out all of the special Niner frame end stop ferrules to get the Jagwire cables to fit in them. I tried using a 110mm piece of Jagwire housing + Jagwire ferrule + Niner ferrule for the BB-chuck-to-chainstay section, but whenever I would cycle the rear suspension the housing would pop out of the ferrule as if it were too short. I tested 2 different sections of 120mm Jagwire housing and didn't have the problem, so I went with 120mm. Even after 2 rides and a lot of adjusting I still have some shifting problems around 2-3-4 (from tallest gear), so I'm thinking I might take some time and try a 115mm piece of housing.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by llamma View Post
    For anyone that cares, I ended up dropping the fork and swapping the guide tubes around so that the cables cross. I had to drill out all of the special Niner frame end stop ferrules to get the Jagwire cables to fit in them. I tried using a 110mm piece of Jagwire housing + Jagwire ferrule + Niner ferrule for the BB-chuck-to-chainstay section, but whenever I would cycle the rear suspension the housing would pop out of the ferrule as if it were too short. I tested 2 different sections of 120mm Jagwire housing and didn't have the problem, so I went with 120mm. Even after 2 rides and a lot of adjusting I still have some shifting problems around 2-3-4 (from tallest gear), so I'm thinking I might take some time and try a 115mm piece of housing.
    Are you sure your hanger is stright ?

    I got 1 of the 1st RDO's & I'm still on my 1st set of cables & it still shifts fine.

  6. #56
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    Yep, had my local mechanic double check it, and the hanger is straight. Also, when the bike is on the stand it shifts perfectly every time. The shifting problem is random while I ride, so that's why I'm thinking it's a cable issue. If I can't solve it with a shorter section of Jagwire housing I'll just give in and go with a 110mm piece of Shimano housing and ferrule.

    Even the RDO that I rode at the demo put on by Niner itself had shifting problems. I'm just having so much fun riding it at the moment that it's not bothering me too much currently. If I just go faster and keep out of those gears I don't have a problem!

  7. #57
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    Remove bolt from top of shock. Cycle suspension fully extended to
    Fully compressed. Do you see the cable housing pull out of the chain stay? If so your cable housing is too short.
    I just put my rdo together and originally cut the cable to short. And the bike would shift
    When the suspension was compressed. If your riding the bike and compress the suspension do
    You see the derailuer move on its own?

  8. #58
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    llamma- sorry to hear about your woes still- ghost shifting sux and a potential hazard...
    FWIW I'm using 120mm Jag housing, the 2 "kit" ferrules stuck in the chainstay, Jag ferrules at BB and RDR and no shifting issues since. As mentioned above, also watch the housing when cycling the suspension and there should also be minimal bending of the housing at the BB, too. When I was using 110mm of shimano it wasn't popping out of the CS, but kinking at the BB that caused binding and shift issues.

  9. #59
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    Anyone used Nokon cable housing ??? Yay, nay, comments

  10. #60
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    Someone asked this earlier but didn't see an answer. Is the "kit" just a 110mm piece of housing and 2 more of the angled ferrules that come with the frame, or are the kit ferrules "special" to better stay in place in the chainstay where the housing enters near the BB and exits near the RD?

  11. #61
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    I started this thread. Would like to update everyone on my Jet9 RDO since the shift upgrade kit installed many months ago.

    Perfect, haven't done anything but clean the bike since the upgrade. Just rode it at Rothrock in State College this past weekend. The suspension got a heavy workout over all those rocks and so did the shifting, Everything is still great with the bike.

    Too often not enough is said about a positive outcome, so I'm going on record that I'm extremely happy with the bike.
    Hope to meet you on the trails!

    Gregg Soster
    Central Ohio Mountain Biking Organization - President

  12. #62
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by FASTK View Post
    I started this thread. Would like to update everyone on my Jet9 RDO since the shift upgrade kit installed many months ago.

    Perfect, haven't done anything but clean the bike since the upgrade. Just rode it at Rothrock in State College this past weekend. The suspension got a heavy workout over all those rocks and so did the shifting, Everything is still great with the bike.

    Too often not enough is said about a positive outcome, so I'm going on record that I'm extremely happy with the bike.
    Nice avatar!

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhkvt View Post
    Someone asked this earlier but didn't see an answer. Is the "kit" just a 110mm piece of housing and 2 more of the angled ferrules that come with the frame, or are the kit ferrules "special" to better stay in place in the chainstay where the housing enters near the BB and exits near the RD?
    The answer is yes.

    I have XTR rear der and abandoned the kit. I went back to a longer housing that passes through the chain stay which helps put pressure on the BB end to keep it in place while having a more straight or direct run between chain stay and BB.

    I've run into other RDO owners who say their Shimano setup is touchy. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Shimano's pull ratio is 2:1 while SRAM is 1:1 (or so I am told).
    2012 Niner Jet 9 RDO (Tang, XTR groupo)
    2011 Giant Reign 2 (XT groupo)

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffin View Post
    The answer is yes.

    I have XTR rear der and abandoned the kit. I went back to a longer housing that passes through the chain stay which helps put pressure on the BB end to keep it in place while having a more straight or direct run between chain stay and BB.

    I've run into other RDO owners who say their Shimano setup is touchy. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Shimano's pull ratio is 2:1 while SRAM is 1:1 (or so I am told).
    There might be something to that... I have an XT drivetrain and my RDO has the ghost shifting problem. I don't have the shift kit, but the housing between the BB and chainstay is 110mm (my LBS is working on getting the shift kit.)

    I ran into another RDO owner this weekend (his RDO was built by the same LBS) and asked him if he had ghost shifting problems. He said he didn't. I didn't get a chance to talk to him further, but his bike was built with a higher end SRAM kit (X0 or XX, I don't remember exactly.)

  15. #65
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    So I still haven't re-cabled the rear, and I've been riding mine around with wonky shifting. I had previously been riding relatively non-technical trails, and I rode fast and stayed out of the taller gears where the problem happened the most. Lately I've started riding some really nice technically trails, and I think other riders can probably hear my cursing every time I try to shift. Well, they might have a hard time hearing it over all the popping and grinding as I try to downshift on the climbs. I'm hesitant to pull everything part and replace it with 110mm of Shimano cable if that's not really going to fix my issue. Is full housing from BB to RD the answer?

    Also, I believe the shift kit is 110mm Shimano housing, 1x special Niner ferrule, and 1x regular Shimano end ferrule. IIRC the Niner ferrule doesn't fit into the hole under the BB.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by llamma View Post
    So I still haven't re-cabled the rear, and I've been riding mine around with wonky shifting. I had previously been riding relatively non-technical trails, and I rode fast and stayed out of the taller gears where the problem happened the most. Lately I've started riding some really nice technically trails, and I think other riders can probably hear my cursing every time I try to shift. Well, they might have a hard time hearing it over all the popping and grinding as I try to downshift on the climbs. I'm hesitant to pull everything part and replace it with 110mm of Shimano cable if that's not really going to fix my issue. Is full housing from BB to RD the answer?

    Also, I believe the shift kit is 110mm Shimano housing, 1x special Niner ferrule, and 1x regular Shimano end ferrule. IIRC the Niner ferrule doesn't fit into the hole under the BB.
    The shift kit should solve any ghost-shifting issues. It basically guarantees that the section of housing from the BB to the first hole in the chainstay is the correct length. Sounds like yours is currently too short or not anchored to the chainstay and moving around. This causes ghost shifting as the suspension moves.

    One possible issue is that the holes in your chainstay have been worn and enlarged by the constantly moving cable housing. In which case the shift kit ferrules may be a slightly loose fit. I believe this is the case with my frame as the shift kit ferrules have twice now been "sucked" up into the chainstay when downshifting under load. Not sure what the solution will be for this issue. I'm currently running a continuous housing on the outside of my chainstay and it's the lightest-action shifting this bike has had yet. It was supposed to be a temporary solution but I might just leave it like that.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB View Post
    The shift kit should solve any ghost-shifting issues. It basically guarantees that the section of housing from the BB to the first hole in the chainstay is the correct length. Sounds like yours is currently too short or not anchored to the chainstay and moving around. This causes ghost shifting as the suspension moves.

    One possible issue is that the holes in your chainstay have been worn and enlarged by the constantly moving cable housing. In which case the shift kit ferrules may be a slightly loose fit. I believe this is the case with my frame as the shift kit ferrules have twice now been "sucked" up into the chainstay when downshifting under load. Not sure what the solution will be for this issue. I'm currently running a continuous housing on the outside of my chainstay and it's the lightest-action shifting this bike has had yet. It was supposed to be a temporary solution but I might just leave it like that.
    I'm actually running 120mm of Jagwire housing, a Jagwire ferrule at the BB, and a Niner ferrule at the chainstay. The Jagwire housing fits VERY tightly into the Niner ferrules--so much so that I actually drilled them out. They seem to be staying put. Ghost shifting isn't actually my problem. The problem is I'll adjust the RD on the stand and it will shift perfectly, then I'll go ride and it will refuse to shift, especially downshift, around gears 1-4. One click will get me chattering, then another click will skip the next gear entirely. I can almost never get it into the gear I want/need. My mechanic says the hanger is straight, and he and I have both adjusted the RD a few times with the same results.

    If I run full housing *through* the chainstay do I risk damaging the holes?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by llamma View Post
    I'm actually running 120mm of Jagwire housing, a Jagwire ferrule at the BB, and a Niner ferrule at the chainstay. The Jagwire housing fits VERY tightly into the Niner ferrules--so much so that I actually drilled them out. They seem to be staying put. Ghost shifting isn't actually my problem. The problem is I'll adjust the RD on the stand and it will shift perfectly, then I'll go ride and it will refuse to shift, especially downshift, around gears 1-4. One click will get me chattering, then another click will skip the next gear entirely. I can almost never get it into the gear I want/need. My mechanic says the hanger is straight, and he and I have both adjusted the RD a few times with the same results.

    If I run full housing *through* the chainstay do I risk damaging the holes?
    Sorry -- I misunderstood you -- I thought you were already running continuous housing throught the chainstay. Niner no longer recommends this as it is prone to enlarging the holes in the chainstay.

    Regarding your problem -- 4mm housing should fit easily into the shift kit ferrules. Are you using 4mm housing? Jagwire does make 4.5mm housing (I believe all of the "braided" looking stuff is 4.5mm). This would explain you having to drill out the ferrules. I would start over again with a 110mm section of 4mm housing, new shift kit ferrules and a careful cable installation.

  19. #69
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    I installed a homemade "kit" (110mm jagwire housing, generic ferrule in BB chuck, and niner shaped ferrule both ends of chainstay). Bad ghost shifting when hard pedaling during suspension compression. Must be a cable tension loosening effect b/c the ghost shift is from lighter cogs on cassette to heavier (ex: 34t to 32t, etc). Will not repliicate on stand w shock disconnect and cycling suspension. Ready to abandon kit and go w full chqinstay housing but worried about harming carbon which was asked earlier but not answered. Any thoughts?

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhkvt View Post
    I installed a homemade "kit" (110mm jagwire housing, generic ferrule in BB chuck, and niner shaped ferrule both ends of chainstay). Bad ghost shifting when hard pedaling during suspension compression. Must be a cable tension loosening effect b/c the ghost shift is from lighter cogs on cassette to heavier (ex: 34t to 32t, etc). Will not repliicate on stand w shock disconnect and cycling suspension. Ready to abandon kit and go w full chqinstay housing but worried about harming carbon which was asked earlier but not answered. Any thoughts?
    Well Niner recommends against their original routing (full cable housing through the chainstay.) In another thread they explain that the housing, particularly in muddy conditions, can wear on the carbon chainstay and cause damage. I believe this has happened to my frame. I did not ride the frame much before the shift kit was introduced but it seems the holes in my chainstays must be enlarged as the shift kit ferrules have twice now slipped into the frame while shifting to low gears under load. Awful. Before that the shift kit worked fine -- better than the continuous run in the chainstay. No real ghost shifting -- so it's possible to get it set up right. Right now I have a contnuous run zip-tied to the top of my chainstay and it works better than any of the internal set ups. It angers me to look at it though!

  21. #71
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    Sorry to hear about your carbon wear. I looked at a Specialized Transition in the LBS. That carbon bike has continuous run housing through the frame and it uses a rubber grommet (housing openings at both ends as opposed to a ferrule with housing opening at only one end) which squeezes around the housing where it exits the chainstay. I was thinking I could use something like this (see image) if I can get in the chainstay. BUT, the fact you're saying full length housing thru the chainstay was not as good as with the kit is disturbing and making me rethink whether to try or try the kit again. Did you go with exact 110mm?

  22. #72
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    I ended up installing 120mm shimano 4mm and seems good but need to trail test it. It was tough getting more rigid (than jagwire) cable in but now that its in it seems more secure in place.

  23. #73
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    Screw internal cable routing.

  24. #74
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    I finally got a good real trails test ride after installing a "shift kit" with 2 ferrules plus 120mm of 4mm shimano housing from the BB chuck to the rear chainstay. I was careful to do my best not to kink the derailleur cable which may have been a problem with my previous shift kit attempts. The good news is it worked fine, no more ghost shifting. FYI I finally took a look at my friend's Jet 9 RDO on the same ride and saw that he has continuous housing from the BB chuck, through the chainstay, all the way to the rear derailleur. He has never had rear shifting problems with his set-up

  25. #75
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    I just built my Jet9 RDO last weekend . I was worried about the cable routing and shifting issues. I used 110mm of Shimamo housing and the supplied cable ends from Niner between the chainstay and BB puck. I have a very light shifting bike with an X-9 shifter and derailuer. I had zero ghost shifting and could shift up three gears under a light pedal load while climbing with no problems.

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