Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 344
  1. #101
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,190
    Quote Originally Posted by ejreyes6 View Post
    All manufactures have frames that break. Don't let that be a deciding factor on choosing a bike. I have seen lots of broken giants, specialized, pivots, and a whole bunch of treks(probably the worst). Just look at other manufactures threads and search cracks.
    That's a little outlandish. There have been companies over the years that were known for bad engineering and multiple flaws. One was wise to avoid them, at least for a certain duration.

    True, it's how they handle it, but if they don't even know enough about their own frames, design, and manufacture to pin it down and figure out what is affected, that's a pretty good deciding factor in choosing a bike. This reeks of "damage control" and just letting what's out there break, rather than issue a recall and be forced to replace ALL the frames, which with the failure rates we are seeing, seems to be the correct thing to do. Problem is that bike companies are small with fairly small margins, so often the "right thing" gets overruled by the "financial decision" that hopes to avoid the losses of really doing the right thing.

    So either two possibilities here relative to Niner's reply in this thread. Either Niner has no idea how many will fail and what the underlying problem is, because they are so far removed from their design and manufacturing process, or they knew and tried to downplay it and hoped it would "go away" quietly. Either one makes a fairly good reason for shopping elsewhere. On the other hand, there are companies out there that couldn't figure out how to design a suspension bike to save their life (but they kept making them), while at the same time they made some of the best hardtails out there, so it's not necessarily that the entire lineup has to be "bad" or "good", it's just that every company has it's strengths and weaknesses.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  2. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation: quote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    106

    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    What are the failure rate numbers?

    There's only two possibilities and they both are extremely negative? How quaint. No third? Like how they could hide behind the fire but instead they would like to jump in front of it, with the possibility they're telling the truth? Does it not mean something that their PR isn't all about retweeting race results on Twitter and instead getting dirty with us?

    Please, push more of your negative wisdom on us.

  3. #103
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,190
    Quote Originally Posted by quote View Post
    What are the failure rate numbers?

    There's only two possibilities and they both are extremely negative? How quaint. No third? Like how they could hide behind the fire but instead they would like to jump in front of it, with the possibility they're telling the truth?
    That was the first possibility, that they are telling the truth, but if they don't know enough about their own design, manufacturing, quality control, batches and everything else to predict the failures, that's a pretty bad sign. FEA, solidworks, and a plethora of other engineering programs are pretty good these days and things don't usually just break out of the blue, and if they do, you are usually able to go back and figure out why, and then identify the affected bikes. This is basic ISO stuff.

    The "we don't know what batches are affected" part is a little scary.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  4. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    726
    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    I had this same issue with my RP23 - no difference with pro-pedal on or off. Sent it back to Fox and explained to them what I wanted out of it. Came back a lot different and way better. I want nothing to do with the new CTD stuff.
    What don't you like about the CTD shock? Also, you called Fox directly with your complaint regarding Propedal? Did it cost you to get fixed?

  5. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slim2none's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was the first possibility, that they are telling the truth, but if they don't know enough about their own design, manufacturing, quality control, batches and everything else to predict the failures, that's a pretty bad sign. FEA, solidworks, and a plethora of other engineering programs are pretty good these days and things don't usually just break out of the blue, and if they do, you are usually able to go back and figure out why, and then identify the affected bikes. This is basic ISO stuff.

    The "we don't know what batches are affected" part is a little scary.
    I couldn't agree with you more.

  6. #106
    USED2COULD
    Reputation: NS2000X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,094
    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    I couldn't agree with you more.
    It is difficult to model in FEA an error introduced inanifacturing. Especially if the error is related to a human step in the process.

    How do you pin point the responsible source of the flaw if you don't spot it during initial factory QC? Step 1 better train the QC and assembly staff regarding what constitutes an issue and prevent further units from hitting the market.

    Of course I have no idea how this went down but I find it presumptuous to assume that FEA tools can model all production irregularities. Also with the low unit cost identifying everyone who touched an non-serialized unit on the production line is wishful thinking.
    2x10
    '12 Niner Jet RDO 22.9 lb
    1x1
    '09 Cannondale F29er 1 20.1 lb
    '10 Sanderson Soloist 23.8 lb
    '09 Hammer 29'er 20.5 lb

  7. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dry Cownty Brewer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    624
    deleted post
    Last edited by Dry Cownty Brewer; 06-30-2013 at 03:45 PM. Reason: deleted
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

  8. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dry Cownty Brewer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    624
    Another frame crack here, same location. I am none too pleased with the response from NINER as far as their offering. However, I am fortunate that I purchased my bike from Competitive Cyclist and they have an awesome guarantee policy. So I will be able to continue to claim that I ride an RDO going forward.
    I have to say that as a loyal NINER rider for 5 years now, I am a little displeased with their offering of a moondust carbon frame. When I compare this offering to what they offered on the RIP 9 debacle circa 2008-2009, I feel a little short changed from them. As a customer, I watched them promote the new JET 9 RDO, and then they unload inventory which I jumped on at the end of last year to get in on a 2012 model. They change the game and up the ante a bit on the 2013 model, but those who bought in like me on first or second year models do not get to continue to ride an RDO even though it is due to a NINER flaw, that doesn't settle well with me. Sure, I'm going to benefit because the shop I purchased from is going to step up where NINER won't but I'm still left with a bit of a dissappointment in my mountain bike brand of choice.
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

  9. #109
    USED2COULD
    Reputation: NS2000X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,094
    Let me get this straight? Your complaint was at the loss of a name plate that you paid hundreds of dollars less for than an Alloy Jet 9?

    If it was the shock you were worried about I'm sure you could have kept the model from your original frame.

    Still I'm happy that Comp Cyc has you smiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott View Post
    Another frame crack here, same location. I am none too pleased with the response from NINER as far as their offering. However, I am fortunate that I purchased my bike from Competitive Cyclist and they have an awesome guarantee policy. So I will be able to continue to claim that I ride an RDO going forward.
    I have to say that as a loyal NINER rider for 5 years now, I am a little displeased with their offering of a moondust carbon frame. When I compare this offering to what they offered on the RIP 9 debacle circa 2008-2009, I feel a little short changed from them. As a customer, I watched them promote the new JET 9 RDO, and then they unload inventory which I jumped on at the end of last year to get in on a 2012 model. They change the game and up the ante a bit on the 2013 model, but those who bought in like me on first or second year models do not get to continue to ride an RDO even though it is due to a NINER flaw, that doesn't settle well with me. Sure, I'm going to benefit because the shop I purchased from is going to step up where NINER won't but I'm still left with a bit of a dissappointment in my mountain bike brand of choice.
    2x10
    '12 Niner Jet RDO 22.9 lb
    1x1
    '09 Cannondale F29er 1 20.1 lb
    '10 Sanderson Soloist 23.8 lb
    '09 Hammer 29'er 20.5 lb

  10. #110
    Moosehead
    Reputation: moosehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,900
    ^Other than color selection and model name, is there any difference between the 2012 J9RDO v1.1 and the 2013 Jet9 Carbon? I think not.

    The 2013 J9RDO added the 142 rear axle and carbon links as upgrades over prior versions, neither of which I would notice and certainly am not interested in paying the $900 increased price as compared to the 2012 NFB closeout pricing. YMMV.

  11. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bailey44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    719
    The shock...
    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    ^Other than color selection and model name, is there any difference between the 2012 J9RDO v1.1 and the 2013 Jet9 Carbon? I think not.

    The 2013 J9RDO added the 142 rear axle and carbon links as upgrades over prior versions, neither of which I would notice and certainly am not interested in paying the $900 increased price as compared to the 2012 NFB closeout pricing. YMMV.

  12. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dry Cownty Brewer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    624
    To me, this matters. I paid for an RDO, and paid for the exact color combination I wanted. NINER ups the specs from one year to the next, and IMO should keep the customers on the bike they purchased, a Jet 9 RDO. The RDO comes with title and sex appeal. The Jet 9 Carbon, especially in Moondust, is blah and has an annoying giant white NINER logo on the downtube, it wouldn't be my choice if I were buying today. The five year warranty from NINER was also a selling point, but there should have been a buyer beware that you may get downgraded in model if NINER decides to advance the offerings or technology of your frame. Ultimately, what would have made me happy would have been if my bike didn't crack.

    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X View Post
    Let me get this straight? Your complaint was at the loss of a name plate that you paid hundreds of dollars less for than an Alloy Jet 9?

    If it was the shock you were worried about I'm sure you could have kept the model from your original frame.

    Still I'm happy that Comp Cyc has you smiling.
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

  13. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    190
    I think it's OK you want an RDO as that is what you purchased. I get the idea of feeling downgraded despite the J9 Carbon being the exact same bike with better cable routing. It is not an RDO. From a resale or vanity POV, it's not the same bike.

    At the same time, I don't think Niner needs to make you whole by giving you an upgraded and more expensive frame because it has the same name. That would be nice, but I don't see it as something they owe you.

    As for the comment about buying it at discount, that doesn't matter. What you pay for something should have nothing to do with warranty.

    You may not like the Jet 9 Carbon because it does not say RDO. You may also not like the color(s), but Niner has no obligation to offer you anything other than that. It is the most suitable replacement.

    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.

  14. #114
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bailey44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    719
    I think a better option would be to have a choice of taking the Carbon as a direct replacement or paying out the difference of the new RDO.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I think it's OK you want an RDO as that is what you purchased. I get the idea of feeling downgraded despite the J9 Carbon being the exact same bike with better cable routing. It is not an RDO. From a resale or vanity POV, it's not the same bike.

    At the same time, I don't think Niner needs to make you whole by giving you an upgraded and more expensive frame because it has the same name. That would be nice, but I don't see it as something they owe you.

    As for the comment about buying it at discount, that doesn't matter. What you pay for something should have nothing to do with warranty.

    You may not like the Jet 9 Carbon because it does not say RDO. You may also not like the color(s), but Niner has no obligation to offer you anything other than that. It is the most suitable replacement.

    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.

  15. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    85
    You paid a closeout price for a 2012 RDO which is essentially a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon. I am sure if Niner still had any closeout 2012 RDO’s left they would have set you up with that. But since a 2013 RDO is not equivalent to a 2012 RDO, I think a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon adequately replaces a 2012 RDO in a warranty situation. Is it fair? Yes. Is Niner going above and beyond fair to for the customer to compensate for the hassle? No.

  16. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dry Cownty Brewer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    624
    +1 - at least having this option would have made those that agree with me happier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey44 View Post
    I think a better option would be to have a choice of taking the Carbon as a direct replacement or paying out the difference of the new RDO.
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

  17. #117
    Epic rider
    Reputation: rapsac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    317
    How does it work with an SWORKS from specialized? Guess you would get an SW back?
    12 Anthem X29
    07 Epic Marathon carbon
    04 Stumpjumper FSR Anniversary
    03 Stumpjumper FSR Pro
    00 Rockhopper Pro

  18. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pharmaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    285
    Quote Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post
    You paid a closeout price for a 2012 RDO which is essentially a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon. I am sure if Niner still had any closeout 2012 RDO’s left they would have set you up with that. But since a 2013 RDO is not equivalent to a 2012 RDO, I think a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon adequately replaces a 2012 RDO in a warranty situation. Is it fair? Yes. Is Niner going above and beyond fair to for the customer to compensate for the hassle? No.
    Of course, it's not just hassle, it's cost. The frames have been built up at cost to the owner, and failed within the first day. Then you get a new frame that's a different colour and you have to pay again to have it built up.

    That might be an acceptable experience if the bike were used for a year before failure, but not really when it's brand new.

    The extra cost to niner for the new RDO couldn't be more than a hundred bucks, possibly a whole lot less.

  19. #119
    Moosehead
    Reputation: moosehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,900
    So for those who think a replacement 2013 is proper, would you also seek for reimbursement to upgrade your rear axle to 142 to be compatible with your existing kit?

  20. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pharmaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    285
    Just the choice would be proper. It also allows another colour option, given the original colour is all gone ( or withdrawn).

  21. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    726
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.
    My replacement Moondust Carbon Jet has the same cable routing as V1 Jet RDO. Then again, the full housing works fine.

  22. #122
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    My replacement Moondust Carbon Jet has the same cable routing as V1 Jet RDO. Then again, the full housing works fine.
    They changed the routing at some point after launch of the J9 Carbon so I guess you could get old stock as well. Either way....same bike, right?

  23. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    726
    I think the pivot bearings may be downgraded, plus the rear shock does not have the Kashima coating. BUT I do like the color better, plus it does have the CTD setting which is nice. The climb setting actually somewhat locks out the rear shock, whereas on my Jet RDO the RP23 Pro-Pedal does not work and seems to make no difference. Also, the Jet Carbon does not come with the nice chainstay protector already installed.

  24. #124
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    726
    I had the choice of the NEW RDO for a $350 upcharge, but I would have had to wait on it whereas the Jet Carbon was already available. Had I gone that route I would have had to change my rear hub to thru axle for another $100, so it would have been $450 more. I figured I would try out the China Carbon rims for less than that and still have money left over.

  25. #125
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dry Cownty Brewer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    624
    My 2012 Hope Pro 2 EVO converts quite easily. I was concerned at first with this fact, but even if I had to buy a new rear wheel with a 142x12, I would have still been happy with the offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    So for those who think a replacement 2013 is proper, would you also seek for reimbursement to upgrade your rear axle to 142 to be compatible with your existing kit?
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SIR 9 Paint Crack or Frame Crack??
    By AaronJobe in forum Niner Bikes
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 01-04-2013, 09:19 AM
  2. Replies: 45
    Last Post: 01-26-2012, 08:17 AM
  3. paint crack or frame crack?
    By fujibikeben in forum Frame Building
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-16-2011, 07:53 PM
  4. Frame crack?
    By thickfog in forum Fat Bikes
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-03-2011, 06:29 PM
  5. Frame crack or paint crack?
    By Rad Rider 415 in forum Niner Bikes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-06-2011, 07:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •