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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejreyes6 View Post
    All manufactures have frames that break. Don't let that be a deciding factor on choosing a bike. I have seen lots of broken giants, specialized, pivots, and a whole bunch of treks(probably the worst). Just look at other manufactures threads and search cracks.
    That's a little outlandish. There have been companies over the years that were known for bad engineering and multiple flaws. One was wise to avoid them, at least for a certain duration.

    True, it's how they handle it, but if they don't even know enough about their own frames, design, and manufacture to pin it down and figure out what is affected, that's a pretty good deciding factor in choosing a bike. This reeks of "damage control" and just letting what's out there break, rather than issue a recall and be forced to replace ALL the frames, which with the failure rates we are seeing, seems to be the correct thing to do. Problem is that bike companies are small with fairly small margins, so often the "right thing" gets overruled by the "financial decision" that hopes to avoid the losses of really doing the right thing.

    So either two possibilities here relative to Niner's reply in this thread. Either Niner has no idea how many will fail and what the underlying problem is, because they are so far removed from their design and manufacturing process, or they knew and tried to downplay it and hoped it would "go away" quietly. Either one makes a fairly good reason for shopping elsewhere. On the other hand, there are companies out there that couldn't figure out how to design a suspension bike to save their life (but they kept making them), while at the same time they made some of the best hardtails out there, so it's not necessarily that the entire lineup has to be "bad" or "good", it's just that every company has it's strengths and weaknesses.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  2. #102
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    What are the failure rate numbers?

    There's only two possibilities and they both are extremely negative? How quaint. No third? Like how they could hide behind the fire but instead they would like to jump in front of it, with the possibility they're telling the truth? Does it not mean something that their PR isn't all about retweeting race results on Twitter and instead getting dirty with us?

    Please, push more of your negative wisdom on us.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by quote View Post
    What are the failure rate numbers?

    There's only two possibilities and they both are extremely negative? How quaint. No third? Like how they could hide behind the fire but instead they would like to jump in front of it, with the possibility they're telling the truth?
    That was the first possibility, that they are telling the truth, but if they don't know enough about their own design, manufacturing, quality control, batches and everything else to predict the failures, that's a pretty bad sign. FEA, solidworks, and a plethora of other engineering programs are pretty good these days and things don't usually just break out of the blue, and if they do, you are usually able to go back and figure out why, and then identify the affected bikes. This is basic ISO stuff.

    The "we don't know what batches are affected" part is a little scary.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    I had this same issue with my RP23 - no difference with pro-pedal on or off. Sent it back to Fox and explained to them what I wanted out of it. Came back a lot different and way better. I want nothing to do with the new CTD stuff.
    What don't you like about the CTD shock? Also, you called Fox directly with your complaint regarding Propedal? Did it cost you to get fixed?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was the first possibility, that they are telling the truth, but if they don't know enough about their own design, manufacturing, quality control, batches and everything else to predict the failures, that's a pretty bad sign. FEA, solidworks, and a plethora of other engineering programs are pretty good these days and things don't usually just break out of the blue, and if they do, you are usually able to go back and figure out why, and then identify the affected bikes. This is basic ISO stuff.

    The "we don't know what batches are affected" part is a little scary.
    I couldn't agree with you more.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    I couldn't agree with you more.
    It is difficult to model in FEA an error introduced inanifacturing. Especially if the error is related to a human step in the process.

    How do you pin point the responsible source of the flaw if you don't spot it during initial factory QC? Step 1 better train the QC and assembly staff regarding what constitutes an issue and prevent further units from hitting the market.

    Of course I have no idea how this went down but I find it presumptuous to assume that FEA tools can model all production irregularities. Also with the low unit cost identifying everyone who touched an non-serialized unit on the production line is wishful thinking.
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  7. #107
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    deleted post
    Last edited by Dry Cownty Brewer; 06-30-2013 at 03:45 PM. Reason: deleted
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  8. #108
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    Another frame crack here, same location. I am none too pleased with the response from NINER as far as their offering. However, I am fortunate that I purchased my bike from Competitive Cyclist and they have an awesome guarantee policy. So I will be able to continue to claim that I ride an RDO going forward.
    I have to say that as a loyal NINER rider for 5 years now, I am a little displeased with their offering of a moondust carbon frame. When I compare this offering to what they offered on the RIP 9 debacle circa 2008-2009, I feel a little short changed from them. As a customer, I watched them promote the new JET 9 RDO, and then they unload inventory which I jumped on at the end of last year to get in on a 2012 model. They change the game and up the ante a bit on the 2013 model, but those who bought in like me on first or second year models do not get to continue to ride an RDO even though it is due to a NINER flaw, that doesn't settle well with me. Sure, I'm going to benefit because the shop I purchased from is going to step up where NINER won't but I'm still left with a bit of a dissappointment in my mountain bike brand of choice.
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  9. #109
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    Let me get this straight? Your complaint was at the loss of a name plate that you paid hundreds of dollars less for than an Alloy Jet 9?

    If it was the shock you were worried about I'm sure you could have kept the model from your original frame.

    Still I'm happy that Comp Cyc has you smiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott View Post
    Another frame crack here, same location. I am none too pleased with the response from NINER as far as their offering. However, I am fortunate that I purchased my bike from Competitive Cyclist and they have an awesome guarantee policy. So I will be able to continue to claim that I ride an RDO going forward.
    I have to say that as a loyal NINER rider for 5 years now, I am a little displeased with their offering of a moondust carbon frame. When I compare this offering to what they offered on the RIP 9 debacle circa 2008-2009, I feel a little short changed from them. As a customer, I watched them promote the new JET 9 RDO, and then they unload inventory which I jumped on at the end of last year to get in on a 2012 model. They change the game and up the ante a bit on the 2013 model, but those who bought in like me on first or second year models do not get to continue to ride an RDO even though it is due to a NINER flaw, that doesn't settle well with me. Sure, I'm going to benefit because the shop I purchased from is going to step up where NINER won't but I'm still left with a bit of a dissappointment in my mountain bike brand of choice.
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  10. #110
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    ^Other than color selection and model name, is there any difference between the 2012 J9RDO v1.1 and the 2013 Jet9 Carbon? I think not.

    The 2013 J9RDO added the 142 rear axle and carbon links as upgrades over prior versions, neither of which I would notice and certainly am not interested in paying the $900 increased price as compared to the 2012 NFB closeout pricing. YMMV.

  11. #111
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    The shock...
    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    ^Other than color selection and model name, is there any difference between the 2012 J9RDO v1.1 and the 2013 Jet9 Carbon? I think not.

    The 2013 J9RDO added the 142 rear axle and carbon links as upgrades over prior versions, neither of which I would notice and certainly am not interested in paying the $900 increased price as compared to the 2012 NFB closeout pricing. YMMV.

  12. #112
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    To me, this matters. I paid for an RDO, and paid for the exact color combination I wanted. NINER ups the specs from one year to the next, and IMO should keep the customers on the bike they purchased, a Jet 9 RDO. The RDO comes with title and sex appeal. The Jet 9 Carbon, especially in Moondust, is blah and has an annoying giant white NINER logo on the downtube, it wouldn't be my choice if I were buying today. The five year warranty from NINER was also a selling point, but there should have been a buyer beware that you may get downgraded in model if NINER decides to advance the offerings or technology of your frame. Ultimately, what would have made me happy would have been if my bike didn't crack.

    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X View Post
    Let me get this straight? Your complaint was at the loss of a name plate that you paid hundreds of dollars less for than an Alloy Jet 9?

    If it was the shock you were worried about I'm sure you could have kept the model from your original frame.

    Still I'm happy that Comp Cyc has you smiling.
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  13. #113
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    I think it's OK you want an RDO as that is what you purchased. I get the idea of feeling downgraded despite the J9 Carbon being the exact same bike with better cable routing. It is not an RDO. From a resale or vanity POV, it's not the same bike.

    At the same time, I don't think Niner needs to make you whole by giving you an upgraded and more expensive frame because it has the same name. That would be nice, but I don't see it as something they owe you.

    As for the comment about buying it at discount, that doesn't matter. What you pay for something should have nothing to do with warranty.

    You may not like the Jet 9 Carbon because it does not say RDO. You may also not like the color(s), but Niner has no obligation to offer you anything other than that. It is the most suitable replacement.

    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.

  14. #114
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    I think a better option would be to have a choice of taking the Carbon as a direct replacement or paying out the difference of the new RDO.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I think it's OK you want an RDO as that is what you purchased. I get the idea of feeling downgraded despite the J9 Carbon being the exact same bike with better cable routing. It is not an RDO. From a resale or vanity POV, it's not the same bike.

    At the same time, I don't think Niner needs to make you whole by giving you an upgraded and more expensive frame because it has the same name. That would be nice, but I don't see it as something they owe you.

    As for the comment about buying it at discount, that doesn't matter. What you pay for something should have nothing to do with warranty.

    You may not like the Jet 9 Carbon because it does not say RDO. You may also not like the color(s), but Niner has no obligation to offer you anything other than that. It is the most suitable replacement.

    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.

  15. #115
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    You paid a closeout price for a 2012 RDO which is essentially a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon. I am sure if Niner still had any closeout 2012 RDOís left they would have set you up with that. But since a 2013 RDO is not equivalent to a 2012 RDO, I think a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon adequately replaces a 2012 RDO in a warranty situation. Is it fair? Yes. Is Niner going above and beyond fair to for the customer to compensate for the hassle? No.

  16. #116
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    +1 - at least having this option would have made those that agree with me happier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey44 View Post
    I think a better option would be to have a choice of taking the Carbon as a direct replacement or paying out the difference of the new RDO.
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  17. #117
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    How does it work with an SWORKS from specialized? Guess you would get an SW back?
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post
    You paid a closeout price for a 2012 RDO which is essentially a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon. I am sure if Niner still had any closeout 2012 RDOís left they would have set you up with that. But since a 2013 RDO is not equivalent to a 2012 RDO, I think a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon adequately replaces a 2012 RDO in a warranty situation. Is it fair? Yes. Is Niner going above and beyond fair to for the customer to compensate for the hassle? No.
    Of course, it's not just hassle, it's cost. The frames have been built up at cost to the owner, and failed within the first day. Then you get a new frame that's a different colour and you have to pay again to have it built up.

    That might be an acceptable experience if the bike were used for a year before failure, but not really when it's brand new.

    The extra cost to niner for the new RDO couldn't be more than a hundred bucks, possibly a whole lot less.

  19. #119
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    So for those who think a replacement 2013 is proper, would you also seek for reimbursement to upgrade your rear axle to 142 to be compatible with your existing kit?

  20. #120
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    Just the choice would be proper. It also allows another colour option, given the original colour is all gone ( or withdrawn).

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.
    My replacement Moondust Carbon Jet has the same cable routing as V1 Jet RDO. Then again, the full housing works fine.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    My replacement Moondust Carbon Jet has the same cable routing as V1 Jet RDO. Then again, the full housing works fine.
    They changed the routing at some point after launch of the J9 Carbon so I guess you could get old stock as well. Either way....same bike, right?

  23. #123
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    I think the pivot bearings may be downgraded, plus the rear shock does not have the Kashima coating. BUT I do like the color better, plus it does have the CTD setting which is nice. The climb setting actually somewhat locks out the rear shock, whereas on my Jet RDO the RP23 Pro-Pedal does not work and seems to make no difference. Also, the Jet Carbon does not come with the nice chainstay protector already installed.

  24. #124
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    I had the choice of the NEW RDO for a $350 upcharge, but I would have had to wait on it whereas the Jet Carbon was already available. Had I gone that route I would have had to change my rear hub to thru axle for another $100, so it would have been $450 more. I figured I would try out the China Carbon rims for less than that and still have money left over.

  25. #125
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    My 2012 Hope Pro 2 EVO converts quite easily. I was concerned at first with this fact, but even if I had to buy a new rear wheel with a 142x12, I would have still been happy with the offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    So for those who think a replacement 2013 is proper, would you also seek for reimbursement to upgrade your rear axle to 142 to be compatible with your existing kit?
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  26. #126
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    Things that don't go together: Mountain bike frames and plastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by alsfreight View Post
    Good Day MTBR Community.
    I am new to this forum but would like to take the opportunity to comment that my frame has also suffered similiar circumstances.
    I purchased the new frame early 2013. First ride at local park was on April 11th see photo.

    Bike was ridden close to 100 miles before cracking above the bottom bracket area started developing. With every ride the cracks get worse....

    I contacted the dealer who sold the frame to me and they requested I send them photos so they could in turn send to Niner.
    This was about two weeks ago. I just contacted the dealer to see if there has been any response and they told me that Niner has not commented so far.

    Here are some photos of my bike before and after...

    That is more than a crack, it's catastrophic failure. No way this failure rate is just 1%.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHolmesXC View Post
    That is more than a crack, it's catastrophic failure. No way this failure rate is just 1%.
    There aren't any plastic mountain bike frames that I know of.
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X View Post
    There aren't any plastic mountain bike frames that I know of.

    Because resin = magic? Anyways...


    I like NINER (they have nice pictures) but they are small potatoes. When an order comes in from one of the big guys (Giant, Specialized, Trek, etc...) NINER's order goes to the end of the line and the new hires are brought in and trained on these smaller manufacturing runs for non-critical clients. NINER isn't that profitable or important for these overseas manufacturing companies so the b-team is frequently the norm and not the exception.

  29. #129
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    Why would Niner be any less profitable than the big guys? That seems like a total contradiction to normal economics. Were I a carbon frame manufacturer, the least profitable would be the big boys who squeeze me because of their volume. The most profitable would be the Niners who don't command enough volume to pose a threat if they take their business elsewhere. I name my price and Niner takes it or leaves it.

    Specialized/Trek...they won't go for that.

    I won't argue the B-Team comment given the way can work in the East. Still, that assumption seems pretty thin as well.
    Last edited by WoodstockMTB; 07-06-2013 at 05:20 AM. Reason: wording

  30. #130
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    So is the problem affecting the 2013 RDO v2 or 2013 Jet 9 Carbon's? This is the leader on the chica's new bike choice.

  31. #131
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    Moondust replacement

    Hey all

    I wanted to post a pic of the new Moondust Jet 9 Carbon Niner graciously replaced my cracked RDO with. I fall into the same category as others here - got a 2012 RDO on closeout this winter, and discovered a spider crack on the seat tube described earlier in the string. Niner replaced the front and rear triangles (I used the same linkage and shock) under warranty through my local dealer Big Kahuna Bikes in Littleton, CO. (Big shout out to them - great service.)

    This, to me was a fair resolution. I loved the black and white scheme of the RDO, but I bought it to ride. And the moondust looks great and rides just as well. It's a fantastic bike. Thanks Niner for the support.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-img_2604.jpg  


  32. #132
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    I like the Moondust color for sure. Did Niner say you had to re-use your linkage and shock? When I got my Moondust replacement I got NEW everything and did not have to re-use anything.

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    BOught mine from the defunct Speedgoat.com.....hope I have no problems.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    I like the Moondust color for sure. Did Niner say you had to re-use your linkage and shock? When I got my Moondust replacement I got NEW everything and did not have to re-use anything.
    Be interested in this as well. Though if it were me, I'd only want the frame as well. The kashima fox on the rdo's is a very nice shock, and upgraded to what's delivered on the carbon.

    edit , my crack hasn't propagated in a couple of months

  35. #135
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    The rear shock from the cracked frame was better than the shock that comes stock on the Jet9 Carbon, so it made sense to just use that one, especially considering it only had limited miles on it (as did the linkage). That was their suggestion (through the shop), and it was fine by me.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Why would Niner be any less profitable than the big guys?
    The subject of my response was the manufacturing partner(s) that NINER uses and their profitability, not NINERís profitability. I can speculate on NINERís profitability if you wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    That seems like a total contradiction to normal economics.
    Iím not sure what normal economics is as opposed to non-normal economics but Iíll assume you are referencing micro economics; but thatís flawed because economics deals with opportunity costs, strategy and positioning as opposed to the creation of revenue via the leveraging of an asset(s) and the analysis of that leverage a.k.a profitability. And thatís accounting and some finance.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Were I a carbon frame manufacturer, the least profitable would be the big boys who squeeze me because of their volume.
    If you were a carbon frame manufacturer or any type of manufacturer you would know that cash pays the bills and margins do not. If you were a manufacturer would you rather have $100,000 in revenue at a 53% gross profit margin or $1,687,500 in revenue at a 41% gross profit margin? Cash is king.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    The most profitable would be the Niners who don't command enough volume to pose a threat if they take their business elsewhere. I name my price and Niner takes it or leaves it.

    Specialized/Trek...they won't go for that.
    And I think thatís my point as mentioned above. NINER is very small potatoes to these manufacturers and thatís why they focus on reducing their manufacturing costs by using their smaller non-significant clientís manufacturing run as training grounds for new employees. Once their apprenticeship / training is complete they are moved to the most lucrative manufacturing runs for clients who generate substantial revenue. Why risk a new employee on a major client run when they can practice on ďthose guys.Ē And if I was Trek or Giant etc I would be furious if they were training new employees on my production runs.


    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I won't argue the B-Team comment given the way can work in the East. Still, that assumption seems pretty thin as well.
    ďÖas well.Ē If this is in addition to, then what were the other point(s) that seemed thin as well? Or would it be that thing about economics vs. accounting for profitability analysis?

  37. #137
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    Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

    Well, I too was pleased with Niner's warranty on my cracked 2012 RDO, until the moondust replacement frame cracked in the same place many of the others have cracked. Suffice to say, I will not be riding the replacement frame. Its going up for sale. 2 frames in 5 months is rediculous. I'm 240 with gear, but this is CARBON. they make rocket ships out of this stuff. this should NOT be happening.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-crack-2.jpg  


  38. #138
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    You must be 200% part of the 1%.
    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    Well, I too was pleased with Niner's warranty on my cracked 2012 RDO, until the moondust replacement frame cracked in the same place many of the others have cracked. Suffice to say, I will not be riding the replacement frame. Its going up for sale. 2 frames in 5 months is rediculous. I'm 240 with gear, but this is CARBON. they make rocket ships out of this stuff. this should NOT be happening.
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

  39. #139
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    ouch

  40. #140
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    I would definitely sell if I were you before riding. 240 is a lot, and more than an xc bike is designed for - it does imply that weight and force has something to do with the failure though.

    Interestingly, the faint crack on mine in the same spot that occurred on its first ride, hasn't changed in a few months of riding - although I have been injury prone the last few months ;(

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    I would definitely sell if I were you before riding. 240 is a lot, and more than an xc bike is designed for - it does imply that weight and force has something to do with the failure though.
    Thats wrong. Sure wheels come with low weight ratings but a carbon fiber frame should be fine assuming your using it for type of riding it was designed for. Theres plenty of people who ride the XL that are 240. Niner's engineers were not this naive with rider weights.

    What bike do you recommend he get if your claims that XC bikes aren't designed for that kind of weight?

  42. #142
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    I'm 250 on a Large and doing okay still. I'm also not worried if it does happen either way as they're standing behind their product in a way I'm personally okay with.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny31292 View Post
    Thats wrong. Sure wheels come with low weight ratings but a carbon fiber frame should be fine assuming your using it for type of riding it was designed for. Theres plenty of people who ride the XL that are 240. Niner's engineers were not this naive with rider weights.

    What bike do you recommend he get if your claims that XC bikes aren't designed for that kind of weight?
    I think he is just saying that XC race bikes don't typically stand up well to someone who tips the scales over 200 and change. Your typical XC racer is is a featherweight. It is just the reality of racing. People who have a little more meat on their bones tend to have better durability results on a trail/AM specific bike. There are no absolutes, but most bike shops will guide heavier riders towards a trail bike vs the lightweight XC bike.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by quote View Post
    I'm 250 on a Large and doing okay still. I'm also not worried if it does happen either way as they're standing behind their product in a way I'm personally okay with.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    That is the beauty of Niner. They are really out to keep reasonable customers happy and enjoying their bikes. I hope that does not change in the future.

    They have had a few screw ups along the way, but they always seem to do the right thing and find a solution.

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    Weight Limit on Jet 9?

    Thats niners response for for their old aluminum frame.

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    My response from Ralphe from Customer Service in an e-mail exchange about weight limits on their carbon seat post, February 2013:
    Hi Chase.

    Thanks for being part of the Niner Nation!

    None of our products have a weight limit associated with them.

    Ride On!

    Ralph.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny31292 View Post
    Thats wrong. Sure wheels come with low weight ratings but a carbon fiber frame should be fine assuming your using it for type of riding it was designed for. Theres plenty of people who ride the XL that are 240. Niner's engineers were not this naive with rider weights.

    What bike do you recommend he get if your claims that XC bikes aren't designed for that kind of weight?
    So why do wheels come with weight limits and frames don't? Do you think the forces are majically different?

    If someone 84kg is riding crests ( ie under their weight limit) and they destroy 2 wheels in 6 months doing what they consider normal riding, do you think they should just keep buying crests coz they are light and they are under the weight limit?

    Weight nearly always comes at the expense of durability, that's just the way things are.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    So why do wheels come with weight limits and frames don't? Do you think the forces are majically different?

    If someone 84kg is riding crests ( ie under their weight limit) and they destroy 2 wheels in 6 months doing what they consider normal riding, do you think they should just keep buying crests coz they are light and they are under the weight limit?

    Weight nearly always comes at the expense of durability, that's just the way things are.
    I have Arch EXs laced to i9s, and they havn't even needed a truing- through both frame cracks. If niner, or any brand, thinks that a bike they manufacture will not hold up reliably for a given weight, then they should state that explicitly.

    This bike isnt a full rigid. It has 120mm and 100mm of suspension front and back. I don't care how you cut it, these are manufacturing defects, not "normal" even if I am 240.

    Yes, they stand behind their warranty, but perhaps it would cause less work for them and less headache for their customers if their QC was where it needed to be. That's all.

    FWIW, my LBS has not gotten a response from Niner in a week. frustrated.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    I have Arch EXs laced to i9s, and they havn't even needed a truing- through both frame cracks. If niner, or any brand, thinks that a bike they manufacture will not hold up reliably for a given weight, then they should state that explicitly.
    .
    Absolutely agree. 2 bikes, 2 production runs, 2 cracks, same rider.

    its not about whether it should, whether its a fault (niner admits it is), its about you and your confidence in your bike, and keeping the thing on the road. if I had been put out as much as you under those situations, i would be considering selling the new frame and getting another, hell Id be pressuring niner to see if they can supply a RIP carbon - would save them money and you hassle.

    But, it may well be another run of faults (or its a design fault they can fix), and therefore the next one might be good as gold, and last you a decade - all good, but thats up to you

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    FWIW, my LBS has not gotten a response from Niner in a week. frustrated.
    Call them personally, don't wait for the shop.

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