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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejreyes6 View Post
    All manufactures have frames that break. Don't let that be a deciding factor on choosing a bike. I have seen lots of broken giants, specialized, pivots, and a whole bunch of treks(probably the worst). Just look at other manufactures threads and search cracks.
    That's a little outlandish. There have been companies over the years that were known for bad engineering and multiple flaws. One was wise to avoid them, at least for a certain duration.

    True, it's how they handle it, but if they don't even know enough about their own frames, design, and manufacture to pin it down and figure out what is affected, that's a pretty good deciding factor in choosing a bike. This reeks of "damage control" and just letting what's out there break, rather than issue a recall and be forced to replace ALL the frames, which with the failure rates we are seeing, seems to be the correct thing to do. Problem is that bike companies are small with fairly small margins, so often the "right thing" gets overruled by the "financial decision" that hopes to avoid the losses of really doing the right thing.

    So either two possibilities here relative to Niner's reply in this thread. Either Niner has no idea how many will fail and what the underlying problem is, because they are so far removed from their design and manufacturing process, or they knew and tried to downplay it and hoped it would "go away" quietly. Either one makes a fairly good reason for shopping elsewhere. On the other hand, there are companies out there that couldn't figure out how to design a suspension bike to save their life (but they kept making them), while at the same time they made some of the best hardtails out there, so it's not necessarily that the entire lineup has to be "bad" or "good", it's just that every company has it's strengths and weaknesses.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  2. #102
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    What are the failure rate numbers?

    There's only two possibilities and they both are extremely negative? How quaint. No third? Like how they could hide behind the fire but instead they would like to jump in front of it, with the possibility they're telling the truth? Does it not mean something that their PR isn't all about retweeting race results on Twitter and instead getting dirty with us?

    Please, push more of your negative wisdom on us.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by quote View Post
    What are the failure rate numbers?

    There's only two possibilities and they both are extremely negative? How quaint. No third? Like how they could hide behind the fire but instead they would like to jump in front of it, with the possibility they're telling the truth?
    That was the first possibility, that they are telling the truth, but if they don't know enough about their own design, manufacturing, quality control, batches and everything else to predict the failures, that's a pretty bad sign. FEA, solidworks, and a plethora of other engineering programs are pretty good these days and things don't usually just break out of the blue, and if they do, you are usually able to go back and figure out why, and then identify the affected bikes. This is basic ISO stuff.

    The "we don't know what batches are affected" part is a little scary.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    I had this same issue with my RP23 - no difference with pro-pedal on or off. Sent it back to Fox and explained to them what I wanted out of it. Came back a lot different and way better. I want nothing to do with the new CTD stuff.
    What don't you like about the CTD shock? Also, you called Fox directly with your complaint regarding Propedal? Did it cost you to get fixed?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was the first possibility, that they are telling the truth, but if they don't know enough about their own design, manufacturing, quality control, batches and everything else to predict the failures, that's a pretty bad sign. FEA, solidworks, and a plethora of other engineering programs are pretty good these days and things don't usually just break out of the blue, and if they do, you are usually able to go back and figure out why, and then identify the affected bikes. This is basic ISO stuff.

    The "we don't know what batches are affected" part is a little scary.
    I couldn't agree with you more.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    I couldn't agree with you more.
    It is difficult to model in FEA an error introduced inanifacturing. Especially if the error is related to a human step in the process.

    How do you pin point the responsible source of the flaw if you don't spot it during initial factory QC? Step 1 better train the QC and assembly staff regarding what constitutes an issue and prevent further units from hitting the market.

    Of course I have no idea how this went down but I find it presumptuous to assume that FEA tools can model all production irregularities. Also with the low unit cost identifying everyone who touched an non-serialized unit on the production line is wishful thinking.
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  7. #107
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    deleted post
    Last edited by Dry Cownty Brewer; 06-30-2013 at 03:45 PM. Reason: deleted
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  8. #108
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    Another frame crack here, same location. I am none too pleased with the response from NINER as far as their offering. However, I am fortunate that I purchased my bike from Competitive Cyclist and they have an awesome guarantee policy. So I will be able to continue to claim that I ride an RDO going forward.
    I have to say that as a loyal NINER rider for 5 years now, I am a little displeased with their offering of a moondust carbon frame. When I compare this offering to what they offered on the RIP 9 debacle circa 2008-2009, I feel a little short changed from them. As a customer, I watched them promote the new JET 9 RDO, and then they unload inventory which I jumped on at the end of last year to get in on a 2012 model. They change the game and up the ante a bit on the 2013 model, but those who bought in like me on first or second year models do not get to continue to ride an RDO even though it is due to a NINER flaw, that doesn't settle well with me. Sure, I'm going to benefit because the shop I purchased from is going to step up where NINER won't but I'm still left with a bit of a dissappointment in my mountain bike brand of choice.
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  9. #109
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    Let me get this straight? Your complaint was at the loss of a name plate that you paid hundreds of dollars less for than an Alloy Jet 9?

    If it was the shock you were worried about I'm sure you could have kept the model from your original frame.

    Still I'm happy that Comp Cyc has you smiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott View Post
    Another frame crack here, same location. I am none too pleased with the response from NINER as far as their offering. However, I am fortunate that I purchased my bike from Competitive Cyclist and they have an awesome guarantee policy. So I will be able to continue to claim that I ride an RDO going forward.
    I have to say that as a loyal NINER rider for 5 years now, I am a little displeased with their offering of a moondust carbon frame. When I compare this offering to what they offered on the RIP 9 debacle circa 2008-2009, I feel a little short changed from them. As a customer, I watched them promote the new JET 9 RDO, and then they unload inventory which I jumped on at the end of last year to get in on a 2012 model. They change the game and up the ante a bit on the 2013 model, but those who bought in like me on first or second year models do not get to continue to ride an RDO even though it is due to a NINER flaw, that doesn't settle well with me. Sure, I'm going to benefit because the shop I purchased from is going to step up where NINER won't but I'm still left with a bit of a dissappointment in my mountain bike brand of choice.
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  10. #110
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    ^Other than color selection and model name, is there any difference between the 2012 J9RDO v1.1 and the 2013 Jet9 Carbon? I think not.

    The 2013 J9RDO added the 142 rear axle and carbon links as upgrades over prior versions, neither of which I would notice and certainly am not interested in paying the $900 increased price as compared to the 2012 NFB closeout pricing. YMMV.

  11. #111
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    The shock...
    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    ^Other than color selection and model name, is there any difference between the 2012 J9RDO v1.1 and the 2013 Jet9 Carbon? I think not.

    The 2013 J9RDO added the 142 rear axle and carbon links as upgrades over prior versions, neither of which I would notice and certainly am not interested in paying the $900 increased price as compared to the 2012 NFB closeout pricing. YMMV.

  12. #112
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    To me, this matters. I paid for an RDO, and paid for the exact color combination I wanted. NINER ups the specs from one year to the next, and IMO should keep the customers on the bike they purchased, a Jet 9 RDO. The RDO comes with title and sex appeal. The Jet 9 Carbon, especially in Moondust, is blah and has an annoying giant white NINER logo on the downtube, it wouldn't be my choice if I were buying today. The five year warranty from NINER was also a selling point, but there should have been a buyer beware that you may get downgraded in model if NINER decides to advance the offerings or technology of your frame. Ultimately, what would have made me happy would have been if my bike didn't crack.

    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X View Post
    Let me get this straight? Your complaint was at the loss of a name plate that you paid hundreds of dollars less for than an Alloy Jet 9?

    If it was the shock you were worried about I'm sure you could have kept the model from your original frame.

    Still I'm happy that Comp Cyc has you smiling.
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  13. #113
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    I think it's OK you want an RDO as that is what you purchased. I get the idea of feeling downgraded despite the J9 Carbon being the exact same bike with better cable routing. It is not an RDO. From a resale or vanity POV, it's not the same bike.

    At the same time, I don't think Niner needs to make you whole by giving you an upgraded and more expensive frame because it has the same name. That would be nice, but I don't see it as something they owe you.

    As for the comment about buying it at discount, that doesn't matter. What you pay for something should have nothing to do with warranty.

    You may not like the Jet 9 Carbon because it does not say RDO. You may also not like the color(s), but Niner has no obligation to offer you anything other than that. It is the most suitable replacement.

    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.

  14. #114
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    I think a better option would be to have a choice of taking the Carbon as a direct replacement or paying out the difference of the new RDO.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I think it's OK you want an RDO as that is what you purchased. I get the idea of feeling downgraded despite the J9 Carbon being the exact same bike with better cable routing. It is not an RDO. From a resale or vanity POV, it's not the same bike.

    At the same time, I don't think Niner needs to make you whole by giving you an upgraded and more expensive frame because it has the same name. That would be nice, but I don't see it as something they owe you.

    As for the comment about buying it at discount, that doesn't matter. What you pay for something should have nothing to do with warranty.

    You may not like the Jet 9 Carbon because it does not say RDO. You may also not like the color(s), but Niner has no obligation to offer you anything other than that. It is the most suitable replacement.

    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.

  15. #115
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    You paid a closeout price for a 2012 RDO which is essentially a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon. I am sure if Niner still had any closeout 2012 RDO’s left they would have set you up with that. But since a 2013 RDO is not equivalent to a 2012 RDO, I think a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon adequately replaces a 2012 RDO in a warranty situation. Is it fair? Yes. Is Niner going above and beyond fair to for the customer to compensate for the hassle? No.

  16. #116
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    +1 - at least having this option would have made those that agree with me happier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey44 View Post
    I think a better option would be to have a choice of taking the Carbon as a direct replacement or paying out the difference of the new RDO.
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  17. #117
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    How does it work with an SWORKS from specialized? Guess you would get an SW back?
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post
    You paid a closeout price for a 2012 RDO which is essentially a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon. I am sure if Niner still had any closeout 2012 RDO’s left they would have set you up with that. But since a 2013 RDO is not equivalent to a 2012 RDO, I think a 2013 Jet 9 Carbon adequately replaces a 2012 RDO in a warranty situation. Is it fair? Yes. Is Niner going above and beyond fair to for the customer to compensate for the hassle? No.
    Of course, it's not just hassle, it's cost. The frames have been built up at cost to the owner, and failed within the first day. Then you get a new frame that's a different colour and you have to pay again to have it built up.

    That might be an acceptable experience if the bike were used for a year before failure, but not really when it's brand new.

    The extra cost to niner for the new RDO couldn't be more than a hundred bucks, possibly a whole lot less.

  19. #119
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    So for those who think a replacement 2013 is proper, would you also seek for reimbursement to upgrade your rear axle to 142 to be compatible with your existing kit?

  20. #120
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    Just the choice would be proper. It also allows another colour option, given the original colour is all gone ( or withdrawn).

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Personally, I'd be happy getting one that has the better cabling. V1 cabling sucks.
    My replacement Moondust Carbon Jet has the same cable routing as V1 Jet RDO. Then again, the full housing works fine.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    My replacement Moondust Carbon Jet has the same cable routing as V1 Jet RDO. Then again, the full housing works fine.
    They changed the routing at some point after launch of the J9 Carbon so I guess you could get old stock as well. Either way....same bike, right?

  23. #123
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    I think the pivot bearings may be downgraded, plus the rear shock does not have the Kashima coating. BUT I do like the color better, plus it does have the CTD setting which is nice. The climb setting actually somewhat locks out the rear shock, whereas on my Jet RDO the RP23 Pro-Pedal does not work and seems to make no difference. Also, the Jet Carbon does not come with the nice chainstay protector already installed.

  24. #124
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    I had the choice of the NEW RDO for a $350 upcharge, but I would have had to wait on it whereas the Jet Carbon was already available. Had I gone that route I would have had to change my rear hub to thru axle for another $100, so it would have been $450 more. I figured I would try out the China Carbon rims for less than that and still have money left over.

  25. #125
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    My 2012 Hope Pro 2 EVO converts quite easily. I was concerned at first with this fact, but even if I had to buy a new rear wheel with a 142x12, I would have still been happy with the offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    So for those who think a replacement 2013 is proper, would you also seek for reimbursement to upgrade your rear axle to 142 to be compatible with your existing kit?
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  26. #126
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    Things that don't go together: Mountain bike frames and plastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by alsfreight View Post
    Good Day MTBR Community.
    I am new to this forum but would like to take the opportunity to comment that my frame has also suffered similiar circumstances.
    I purchased the new frame early 2013. First ride at local park was on April 11th see photo.

    Bike was ridden close to 100 miles before cracking above the bottom bracket area started developing. With every ride the cracks get worse....

    I contacted the dealer who sold the frame to me and they requested I send them photos so they could in turn send to Niner.
    This was about two weeks ago. I just contacted the dealer to see if there has been any response and they told me that Niner has not commented so far.

    Here are some photos of my bike before and after...

    That is more than a crack, it's catastrophic failure. No way this failure rate is just 1%.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHolmesXC View Post
    That is more than a crack, it's catastrophic failure. No way this failure rate is just 1%.
    There aren't any plastic mountain bike frames that I know of.
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X View Post
    There aren't any plastic mountain bike frames that I know of.

    Because resin = magic? Anyways...


    I like NINER (they have nice pictures) but they are small potatoes. When an order comes in from one of the big guys (Giant, Specialized, Trek, etc...) NINER's order goes to the end of the line and the new hires are brought in and trained on these smaller manufacturing runs for non-critical clients. NINER isn't that profitable or important for these overseas manufacturing companies so the b-team is frequently the norm and not the exception.

  29. #129
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    Why would Niner be any less profitable than the big guys? That seems like a total contradiction to normal economics. Were I a carbon frame manufacturer, the least profitable would be the big boys who squeeze me because of their volume. The most profitable would be the Niners who don't command enough volume to pose a threat if they take their business elsewhere. I name my price and Niner takes it or leaves it.

    Specialized/Trek...they won't go for that.

    I won't argue the B-Team comment given the way can work in the East. Still, that assumption seems pretty thin as well.
    Last edited by WoodstockMTB; 07-06-2013 at 05:20 AM. Reason: wording

  30. #130
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    So is the problem affecting the 2013 RDO v2 or 2013 Jet 9 Carbon's? This is the leader on the chica's new bike choice.

  31. #131
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    Moondust replacement

    Hey all

    I wanted to post a pic of the new Moondust Jet 9 Carbon Niner graciously replaced my cracked RDO with. I fall into the same category as others here - got a 2012 RDO on closeout this winter, and discovered a spider crack on the seat tube described earlier in the string. Niner replaced the front and rear triangles (I used the same linkage and shock) under warranty through my local dealer Big Kahuna Bikes in Littleton, CO. (Big shout out to them - great service.)

    This, to me was a fair resolution. I loved the black and white scheme of the RDO, but I bought it to ride. And the moondust looks great and rides just as well. It's a fantastic bike. Thanks Niner for the support.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-img_2604.jpg  


  32. #132
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    I like the Moondust color for sure. Did Niner say you had to re-use your linkage and shock? When I got my Moondust replacement I got NEW everything and did not have to re-use anything.

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    BOught mine from the defunct Speedgoat.com.....hope I have no problems.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    I like the Moondust color for sure. Did Niner say you had to re-use your linkage and shock? When I got my Moondust replacement I got NEW everything and did not have to re-use anything.
    Be interested in this as well. Though if it were me, I'd only want the frame as well. The kashima fox on the rdo's is a very nice shock, and upgraded to what's delivered on the carbon.

    edit , my crack hasn't propagated in a couple of months

  35. #135
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    The rear shock from the cracked frame was better than the shock that comes stock on the Jet9 Carbon, so it made sense to just use that one, especially considering it only had limited miles on it (as did the linkage). That was their suggestion (through the shop), and it was fine by me.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Why would Niner be any less profitable than the big guys?
    The subject of my response was the manufacturing partner(s) that NINER uses and their profitability, not NINER’s profitability. I can speculate on NINER’s profitability if you wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    That seems like a total contradiction to normal economics.
    I’m not sure what normal economics is as opposed to non-normal economics but I’ll assume you are referencing micro economics; but that’s flawed because economics deals with opportunity costs, strategy and positioning as opposed to the creation of revenue via the leveraging of an asset(s) and the analysis of that leverage a.k.a profitability. And that’s accounting and some finance.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Were I a carbon frame manufacturer, the least profitable would be the big boys who squeeze me because of their volume.
    If you were a carbon frame manufacturer or any type of manufacturer you would know that cash pays the bills and margins do not. If you were a manufacturer would you rather have $100,000 in revenue at a 53% gross profit margin or $1,687,500 in revenue at a 41% gross profit margin? Cash is king.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    The most profitable would be the Niners who don't command enough volume to pose a threat if they take their business elsewhere. I name my price and Niner takes it or leaves it.

    Specialized/Trek...they won't go for that.
    And I think that’s my point as mentioned above. NINER is very small potatoes to these manufacturers and that’s why they focus on reducing their manufacturing costs by using their smaller non-significant client’s manufacturing run as training grounds for new employees. Once their apprenticeship / training is complete they are moved to the most lucrative manufacturing runs for clients who generate substantial revenue. Why risk a new employee on a major client run when they can practice on “those guys.” And if I was Trek or Giant etc I would be furious if they were training new employees on my production runs.


    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I won't argue the B-Team comment given the way can work in the East. Still, that assumption seems pretty thin as well.
    “…as well.” If this is in addition to, then what were the other point(s) that seemed thin as well? Or would it be that thing about economics vs. accounting for profitability analysis?

  37. #137
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    Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

    Well, I too was pleased with Niner's warranty on my cracked 2012 RDO, until the moondust replacement frame cracked in the same place many of the others have cracked. Suffice to say, I will not be riding the replacement frame. Its going up for sale. 2 frames in 5 months is rediculous. I'm 240 with gear, but this is CARBON. they make rocket ships out of this stuff. this should NOT be happening.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-crack-2.jpg  


  38. #138
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    You must be 200% part of the 1%.
    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    Well, I too was pleased with Niner's warranty on my cracked 2012 RDO, until the moondust replacement frame cracked in the same place many of the others have cracked. Suffice to say, I will not be riding the replacement frame. Its going up for sale. 2 frames in 5 months is rediculous. I'm 240 with gear, but this is CARBON. they make rocket ships out of this stuff. this should NOT be happening.
    Making Milk by Day, Beer by Night

  39. #139
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    ouch

  40. #140
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    I would definitely sell if I were you before riding. 240 is a lot, and more than an xc bike is designed for - it does imply that weight and force has something to do with the failure though.

    Interestingly, the faint crack on mine in the same spot that occurred on its first ride, hasn't changed in a few months of riding - although I have been injury prone the last few months ;(

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    I would definitely sell if I were you before riding. 240 is a lot, and more than an xc bike is designed for - it does imply that weight and force has something to do with the failure though.
    Thats wrong. Sure wheels come with low weight ratings but a carbon fiber frame should be fine assuming your using it for type of riding it was designed for. Theres plenty of people who ride the XL that are 240. Niner's engineers were not this naive with rider weights.

    What bike do you recommend he get if your claims that XC bikes aren't designed for that kind of weight?

  42. #142
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    I'm 250 on a Large and doing okay still. I'm also not worried if it does happen either way as they're standing behind their product in a way I'm personally okay with.


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  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny31292 View Post
    Thats wrong. Sure wheels come with low weight ratings but a carbon fiber frame should be fine assuming your using it for type of riding it was designed for. Theres plenty of people who ride the XL that are 240. Niner's engineers were not this naive with rider weights.

    What bike do you recommend he get if your claims that XC bikes aren't designed for that kind of weight?
    I think he is just saying that XC race bikes don't typically stand up well to someone who tips the scales over 200 and change. Your typical XC racer is is a featherweight. It is just the reality of racing. People who have a little more meat on their bones tend to have better durability results on a trail/AM specific bike. There are no absolutes, but most bike shops will guide heavier riders towards a trail bike vs the lightweight XC bike.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by quote View Post
    I'm 250 on a Large and doing okay still. I'm also not worried if it does happen either way as they're standing behind their product in a way I'm personally okay with.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    That is the beauty of Niner. They are really out to keep reasonable customers happy and enjoying their bikes. I hope that does not change in the future.

    They have had a few screw ups along the way, but they always seem to do the right thing and find a solution.

  45. #145
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    Weight Limit on Jet 9?

    Thats niners response for for their old aluminum frame.

  46. #146
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    My response from Ralphe from Customer Service in an e-mail exchange about weight limits on their carbon seat post, February 2013:
    Hi Chase.

    Thanks for being part of the Niner Nation!

    None of our products have a weight limit associated with them.

    Ride On!

    Ralph.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny31292 View Post
    Thats wrong. Sure wheels come with low weight ratings but a carbon fiber frame should be fine assuming your using it for type of riding it was designed for. Theres plenty of people who ride the XL that are 240. Niner's engineers were not this naive with rider weights.

    What bike do you recommend he get if your claims that XC bikes aren't designed for that kind of weight?
    So why do wheels come with weight limits and frames don't? Do you think the forces are majically different?

    If someone 84kg is riding crests ( ie under their weight limit) and they destroy 2 wheels in 6 months doing what they consider normal riding, do you think they should just keep buying crests coz they are light and they are under the weight limit?

    Weight nearly always comes at the expense of durability, that's just the way things are.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    So why do wheels come with weight limits and frames don't? Do you think the forces are majically different?

    If someone 84kg is riding crests ( ie under their weight limit) and they destroy 2 wheels in 6 months doing what they consider normal riding, do you think they should just keep buying crests coz they are light and they are under the weight limit?

    Weight nearly always comes at the expense of durability, that's just the way things are.
    I have Arch EXs laced to i9s, and they havn't even needed a truing- through both frame cracks. If niner, or any brand, thinks that a bike they manufacture will not hold up reliably for a given weight, then they should state that explicitly.

    This bike isnt a full rigid. It has 120mm and 100mm of suspension front and back. I don't care how you cut it, these are manufacturing defects, not "normal" even if I am 240.

    Yes, they stand behind their warranty, but perhaps it would cause less work for them and less headache for their customers if their QC was where it needed to be. That's all.

    FWIW, my LBS has not gotten a response from Niner in a week. frustrated.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    I have Arch EXs laced to i9s, and they havn't even needed a truing- through both frame cracks. If niner, or any brand, thinks that a bike they manufacture will not hold up reliably for a given weight, then they should state that explicitly.
    .
    Absolutely agree. 2 bikes, 2 production runs, 2 cracks, same rider.

    its not about whether it should, whether its a fault (niner admits it is), its about you and your confidence in your bike, and keeping the thing on the road. if I had been put out as much as you under those situations, i would be considering selling the new frame and getting another, hell Id be pressuring niner to see if they can supply a RIP carbon - would save them money and you hassle.

    But, it may well be another run of faults (or its a design fault they can fix), and therefore the next one might be good as gold, and last you a decade - all good, but thats up to you

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    FWIW, my LBS has not gotten a response from Niner in a week. frustrated.
    Call them personally, don't wait for the shop.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Call them personally, don't wait for the shop.
    I emailed them a week ago, no response yet from Niner.

    My LBS has gotten a response. I hope I don't regret this decision, but I decided to upgrade to the RIP 9 RDO, and Niner is charging me the difference in frame prices. I'm not happy about that AT ALL, especially since I'll still have to shell out more cash for a headset, bottom bracket, rear axle conversion, and new seatpost.

    About the only reason I'm giving it a shot is because its still less hassle for me than getting a replacement Jet frame and having to sell it, and then still having to purchase those items for a different company's frame (should have bought a ripley).

    It would also be nice for niner to respond to my email, but I won't hold my breath. Sure, they will warranty their broken frames (they have to). That's all they'll do though, and it took 4 weeks last time, and we're in week 3 this time, looking at another 1-2 before i get the new bike. That's almost 2 months without a bike, in a 6 month riding season.

    So I'm not going to be one of the people who will tout their customer service as "excellent". I'd call it "adequate". I'd call their quality control "sub-par".

    Crossing my fingers and hoping that the RIP 9 doesn't break. I honestly don't know what I will do if it does. have a shit fit maybe. At least they're not as bad as Crankbrothers, but that's not saying much.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    I emailed them a week ago, no response yet from Niner.

    My LBS has gotten a response. I hope I don't regret this decision, but I decided to upgrade to the RIP 9 RDO, and Niner is charging me the difference in frame prices. I'm not happy about that AT ALL, especially since I'll still have to shell out more cash for a headset, bottom bracket, rear axle conversion, and new seatpost. . . It would also be nice for niner to respond to my email, but I won't hold my breath.
    I see why you emailed them, but I would now call them. THis has happened to you twice already and probably made you regret choosing to purchase the Niner brand. What I don't get out of all of this is why are they making you pay the difference in the price to go to Rip 9 RDO? Pay full MSRP or wholesale? What I mean is being this has happened twice. There should be some huge discount in there for you having to go through this twice already. I know I would be pissed and not to mention as you said your parts you have to upgrade.

    I know a guy who had a problem with the rear triangle on his Carbon Tallboy (cracks around the area of the bearings) and Santa Cruz (gave him the option of a new triangle or new bike, he chose new bike) had him pay half the purchase price on the brand new bike, which he did. I thought that was an ok deal being that his was an older Tallboy going to the new one with the 12x142 axle and it was way past their warranty. At that time they didn't offer the 5 year warranty.

    I have a Jet 9 RDO that is not even built up yet and I'm concerned because I weight about 210 without a pack. I know it may not happen to me but it was one of the closeout frames, the good part was I purchased it from Comp Cyclist and they seem to take care of it no questions asked and then they deal with Niner directly. Call Niner up man, negotiate with them, I'd be surprised if they don't work with you more, not saying your shop is not in your corner but give em a call and tell them your email has not even been responded to. I only have had experience with Santa Cruz and everytime I called them they were very helpful and on it! I want to know how this plays out for you.

  53. #153
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    Based on a recent experience with Niner - I would agree - a phone call can convey things in a way an email can not. My bike shop was uber-passive and my direct phone call made a big difference in how things turned out.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I see why you emailed them, but I would now call them. THis has happened to you twice already and probably made you regret choosing to purchase the Niner brand. What I don't get out of all of this is why are they making you pay the difference in the price to go to Rip 9 RDO? Pay full MSRP or wholesale? What I mean is being this has happened twice. There should be some huge discount in there for you having to go through this twice already. I know I would be pissed and not to mention as you said your parts you have to upgrade.

    I know a guy who had a problem with the rear triangle on his Carbon Tallboy (cracks around the area of the bearings) and Santa Cruz (gave him the option of a new triangle or new bike, he chose new bike) had him pay half the purchase price on the brand new bike, which he did. I thought that was an ok deal being that his was an older Tallboy going to the new one with the 12x142 axle and it was way past their warranty. At that time they didn't offer the 5 year warranty.

    I have a Jet 9 RDO that is not even built up yet and I'm concerned because I weight about 210 without a pack. I know it may not happen to me but it was one of the closeout frames, the good part was I purchased it from Comp Cyclist and they seem to take care of it no questions asked and then they deal with Niner directly. Call Niner up man, negotiate with them, I'd be surprised if they don't work with you more, not saying your shop is not in your corner but give em a call and tell them your email has not even been responded to. I only have had experience with Santa Cruz and everytime I called them they were very helpful and on it! I want to know how this plays out for you.
    Hey man, double check CC's return policy now... They have recently changed it...just lookin out for a brotha....

  55. #155
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    Thanks trail.head I will...

  56. #156
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    This happened to me on the second ride. This is my replacement frame from the frame crack on the 2012 model. I am posting a new thread, so as to not hijack this one, about how I am done with NINER Bikes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-img_0754.jpg  

    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-img_0755.jpg  

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  57. #157
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    That will buff right out....
    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Cownty Brewer View Post
    This happened to me on the second ride. This is my replacement frame from the frame crack on the 2012 model. I am posting a new thread, so as to not hijack this one, about how I am done with NINER Bikes.

  58. #158
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    Love your sense of humor Would love to use that line on my buddy who I talked into buying one of the new Jet 9 RDO's. Unfortunately, his frame also cracked within 1 month and about 6 rides. Don't know if he would see the humor in it. Will find out though



    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey44 View Post
    That will buff right out....
    Single Track Rules!

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by HouseNotes View Post
    Love your sense of humor Would love to use that line on my buddy who I talked into buying one of the new Jet 9 RDO's. Unfortunately, his frame also cracked within 1 month and about 6 rides. Don't know if he would see the humor in it. Will find out though
    Sometimes I laugh to keep from crying....

    It sucks to see broken frames on a bike that I have and love.

  60. #160
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    Seems like maybe this is more than the 1% Niner is claiming, this is what 4 or 5 in just this thread and we know we don't see a fraction of what actually happens in the world on these boards.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  61. #161
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    Mine's holding up just fine
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack-imag0666.jpg  


  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    Looks like Niner is minimzing numbers, to save their own ass. Gary Fissure had a 97% fail rate on their 2010 Superfly FS carbon frames, but they fully owned-up to it and resolved it, by mid-year...even paying 100% of parts transfer costs and making that model year frame a Lifetime Warranty unit.
    With all the failures of the Cake, Sugar, Superflys, and others. I'm convinced GF couldn't design an FS bike to save himself.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  63. #163
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    A lot of companies claim (only) 1 or 2% failure rate on their products, that goes into other industries as well, but who really knows ?
    Sad to see the brand new green with a crack, my 2012 Superfly cracked in same place after about 1500 miles. Just checked my 2013 Jet9rdo and fortunately OK after 480 miles.

  64. #164
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    Bikes break. It's part of riding. I have friends that have broken 4 or 5 bikes in the last seven years. I haven't had any issues. But............. I went with the Jet9 RDO over the new Fisher Superfly because I didn't want to deal with the issues that Fisher always seems to have when they introduce a new model. Now I'm nervously watching my frame.

  65. #165
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    I am starting to wonder if these cracks are due to having the derailleur mount and the shock mount so close together. Too much stress in one little area. Has anybody with a single chainring "hence.... not using a front derailleur" had a cracked frame?
    Maybe the pressure from a front derailleur together with the pressure from the shock mount is too much for it.

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by danvar View Post
    I am starting to wonder if these cracks are due to having the derailleur mount and the shock mount so close together. Too much stress in one little area. Has anybody with a single chainring "hence.... not using a front derailleur" had a cracked frame?
    Maybe the pressure from a front derailleur together with the pressure from the shock mount is too much for it.
    I'm sorry but it sounds like you are reaching a bit there. I just don't get why everyone is freaking out about this. I've had mine for well over a year and its still fine. I'd be willing to bet that they had a small batch that were bad. It sounds like they got in front of it and are now just working through it. Nothing to freak out about, no one has been hurt or even broken all the way through the tube from what it looks like.

    And to those of you that think its bigger than 1 or 2%, you should know that 100% of the people that come one this forum are power users or people that broke a frame and are looking to vent. Sure it sucks to break a frame but niner is probably selling thousands of these frames. To have some break is not out of the norm. It does suck to have a frame break and have the replacement break but that is the deal sometimes and at least they are fast at getting you a replacement.

    I am pretty confident that this will be a non issue in a few months and I sure cannot wait to get a new frame with the upgrades!
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If I told you I saw a unicorn ****ing a leprechaun trail side, you'd probably be suspicious.

  67. #167
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    FWIW, as of this post, there are 14 cracked frames in this thread including three riders who have had their replacement frame crack as well.

    This excludes three or four third hand comments suggesting "a friend's J9RDO is cracked".

  68. #168
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    ^+1 I had this same thought as I was examining my second frame crack. I suspect that there is too much stress at this area. There is certainly a lot going on in that part of the frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by danvar View Post
    I am starting to wonder if these cracks are due to having the derailleur mount and the shock mount so close together. Too much stress in one little area. Has anybody with a single chainring "hence.... not using a front derailleur" had a cracked frame?
    Maybe the pressure from a front derailleur together with the pressure from the shock mount is too much for it.
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  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleForScience View Post
    I'm sorry but it sounds like you are reaching a bit there. I just don't get why everyone is freaking out about this. I've had mine for well over a year and its still fine. I'd be willing to bet that they had a small batch that were bad. It sounds like they got in front of it and are now just working through it. Nothing to freak out about, no one has been hurt or even broken all the way through the tube from what it looks like.

    And to those of you that think its bigger than 1 or 2%, you should know that 100% of the people that come one this forum are power users or people that broke a frame and are looking to vent. Sure it sucks to break a frame but niner is probably selling thousands of these frames. To have some break is not out of the norm. It does suck to have a frame break and have the replacement break but that is the deal sometimes and at least they are fast at getting you a replacement.

    I am pretty confident that this will be a non issue in a few months and I sure cannot wait to get a new frame with the upgrades!
    I think the problem with your theory is while it is certainly believable for someone with a cracked frame to just be in that unlucky 1% failure group, the odds of getting a replacement frame (especially one from a different manufacturing year) and having it crack in the same or similar way is statistically improbable. I believe there has to be more to this than just a simple 1% failure rate. Perhaps there are certain conditions that lead to these failure, that only 1% of the riders might experience due to variables such as rider size/weight, trail conditions, riding style, etc.

  70. #170
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    I think the problem with your theory is while it is certainly believable for someone with a cracked frame to just be in that unlucky 1% failure group, the odds of getting a replacement frame (especially one from a different manufacturing year) and having it crack in the same or similar way is statistically improbable. I believe there has to be more to this than just a simple 1% failure rate. Perhaps there are certain conditions that lead to these failure, that only 1% of the riders might experience due to variables such as rider size/weight, trail conditions, riding style, etc.
    Sure, somewhat agree, but one thing, there isn't different manufacturing years.. There are versions. Just because something is painted a different color, doesn't mean it wasn't produced in the same batch, by the same mold. Remember, the later RDO's are now the Carbon. So it could be in fact the same. Also, considering the replacement came from the same company that sold the first defective frame, don't the odds increase?

    Definitely not trying to pick a fight, just trying to look at it objectively... I know you were as well. Fact is, either of us could be correct, or wrong...

    Serial numbers could point to a connection.. Who knows.

    But then... Why put so much energy into this? Niner is standing behind the frames, and replacing them, just like their warranty says, correct? Aren't they following the exact protocol they promised they would? What else is everyone expecting them to do? Pay to install parts onto the bike? Is that in their warranty?

    It totally sucks frames are breaking.. Seriously sucks when 2 frames break for one person. Everyone has a choice here. To me, if Niner is doing exactly what they said they would do, they always move pretty quickly when a problem comes up, and make appropriate changes to the model.. Why call them liars? What if the failure rate is 2%... Or 3%.. What does that change? Does that provide more justice to those that broke frames? Does it fulfill those who are dealing with broken frames wish to make other people not buy a Niner?

    I don't know where this thread is going, but I bought a Jet RDO from Competitive cyclist in Feb.. Ridden it a lot, crashed 2 times. No issues. Go figure, I don't know why.

    Broken bikes suck, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that Niner is doing exactly what they said they would do if a frame breaks...

    On a similar note.. I break a ton of carbon fiber hockey sticks.. Most have a 30 day warranty, I've broken them on my first shift, I've broken on day 31.. I've broken replacements.. I've had some last an entire season.. Who knows... But the companies always do what they said they would do.. Replace the first stick if it breaks within 30 days.. That's all I can expect from them.

  71. #171
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    I agree, Niner will know what is going on as this is a new problem happening to new frames.

    Bikes like my Tang Jet9 RDO have been going for over 18 months with out a problem & that has run a front derailleur for most of that time.

    looks to me that a batch of frames were just made to dry in that area & that would answer why they are cracking so soon after the build.

    I don't see a big fault that niner can't fix, just some QC that needed to be sorted.



    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Sure, somewhat agree, but one thing, there isn't different manufacturing years.. There are versions. Just because something is painted a different color, doesn't mean it wasn't produced in the same batch, by the same mold. Remember, the later RDO's are now the Carbon. So it could be in fact the same. Also, considering the replacement came from the same company that sold the first defective frame, don't the odds increase?

    Definitely not trying to pick a fight, just trying to look at it objectively... I know you were as well. Fact is, either of us could be correct, or wrong...

    Serial numbers could point to a connection.. Who knows.

    But then... Why put so much energy into this? Niner is standing behind the frames, and replacing them, just like their warranty says, correct? Aren't they following the exact protocol they promised they would? What else is everyone expecting them to do? Pay to install parts onto the bike? Is that in their warranty?

    It totally sucks frames are breaking.. Seriously sucks when 2 frames break for one person. Everyone has a choice here. To me, if Niner is doing exactly what they said they would do, they always move pretty quickly when a problem comes up, and make appropriate changes to the model.. Why call them liars? What if the failure rate is 2%... Or 3%.. What does that change? Does that provide more justice to those that broke frames? Does it fulfill those who are dealing with broken frames wish to make other people not buy a Niner?

    I don't know where this thread is going, but I bought a Jet RDO from Competitive cyclist in Feb.. Ridden it a lot, crashed 2 times. No issues. Go figure, I don't know why.

    Broken bikes suck, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that Niner is doing exactly what they said they would do if a frame breaks...

    On a similar note.. I break a ton of carbon fiber hockey sticks.. Most have a 30 day warranty, I've broken them on my first shift, I've broken on day 31.. I've broken replacements.. I've had some last an entire season.. Who knows... But the companies always do what they said they would do.. Replace the first stick if it breaks within 30 days.. That's all I can expect from them.
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  72. #172
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    NINER Customer service is second to none they are honoring the warranty and they are doing it fast compared to other BIG manufacturers.
    The JET 9 RDO (2012) JET 9 Carbon (2013) is a technologically superb racing machine.
    Do you guys have any other racing machines that had never break?
    I have one it broke it got replaced and in hindsight knowing what I know now I will buy it again.
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  73. #173
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    Crack new Jet 9 RDO black 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Niner Bikes View Post
    Niner Riders -

    We have identified an isolated manufacturing error in the seat tube of some carbon Jet frames. The issue (a fold in the carbon fabric that should not be there) is specific to a small percentage of stock from the last year's production.

    • The issue is not dangerous, nor will it fail catastrophically. It is, however, pretty embarrassing. We apologize for the inconvenience it has caused our riders.

    • We made a change in production as soon as the problem was identified. It is confined to less than 1% of production from last season.

    • Whether or not a frame had this issue was obvious when the engineering team inspected our stock. We have removed any frames displaying this problem from our warehouse.

    If you ever have an issue with a Niner product, contact your dealer. We will stand behind our warranty.

    Regards,
    Carla
    Hopefully it is 1% of the frames that fail.
    I had the new edition Jet 9 RDO model 2013 with the new cable routing and the frame cracked on the seattube after 189 kilometers.
    I hope that the new frame is not from the same batch, rebuild is €150,-.
    Contact with NINER is good and swift also with BUSYBEE the distributor, so the warranty is handled very wel but still after a short period additional costs.
    Fryday a picture from the frame by the LBS to the distributor and Monday a new frame was sent to my LBS. So respect for the customerservice.
    The bike rides super and the looks are awesome so I stick to the Jet.
    Ride on as they say at NINER
    Last edited by Niner 17; 08-19-2013 at 10:35 AM.

  74. #174
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    I have had 66% of mine fail. One cracked at the bottom bracket, and the replacement cracked at the seat tube after maybe 20 rides. Waiting to hear back from Niner for another replacement. This will be 2 tear downs, 2 re-builds and also 2 SRAM PF adaptors ($35 each). Wish their warranty included some $$ for these extras. I replaced a hardtail that I never rode with an additional Jet RDO as a "backup" bike last fall when the closeout prices were so good. Glad I did, I would be without a bike for several weeks at a time.
    Speaking of 1%, me and two other friends bought ours at about the same time, they both have warranty claims in right now also.

  75. #175
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    Hope Warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    I have had 66% of mine fail. One cracked at the bottom bracket, and the replacement cracked at the seat tube after maybe 20 rides. Waiting to hear back from Niner for another replacement. This will be 2 tear downs, 2 re-builds and also 2 SRAM PF adaptors ($35 each). Wish their warranty included some $$ for these extras. I replaced a hardtail that I never rode with an additional Jet RDO as a "backup" bike last fall when the closeout prices were so good. Glad I did, I would be without a bike for several weeks at a time.
    Speaking of 1%, me and two other friends bought ours at about the same time, they both have warranty claims in right now also.
    It's a shame that this can happen especially with this brand and their expertise.
    I must say that I had a new frame within two days so that is a great way to handle the cracked frame. It's a pity that you will have additional costs. I hope the new frame will last a few years. It's my 7th bike and most expensive and the first one with a cracked frame, also the seat tube. I noticed that is a problem with all the Jet models so 1% of a batch, I don't know.
    But as they say at NINER RIDE ON .

  76. #176
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    I ended up upgrading to the RIP 9 RDO, after my two cracked JET 9 RDO frames. I called niner to explain the situation, they ended up charging me $300 for the upgrade, but throwing in a RDO carbon seatpost (on blowout) and a headset (came free with the JET frame but NOT with the RIP for some reason). The warranty process took 4 weeks. I also spent $500 on parts to be able to use the RIP 9 frame (rear hub conversion kit, new cranks and bb due to the english thread, new dropper post because of different seatpost diameters). I've riddent the RIP twice now. I do like the frame, it is definitely a totally different bike, but probably suits my riding a bit better.

    For now, I'm ready to put all this behind me. Yes they warrantied their frames, but the costs and time involved and spending nearly the entire summer off my new bike due to two failures, and entire process of getting to something that WORKS AS INTENDED, just leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I will not be buying another Niner in the future. And if this frame cracks, I'm selling the replacement and not bothering to give them another shot.

  77. #177
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    Warranty other brand

    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    I ended up upgrading to the RIP 9 RDO, after my two cracked JET 9 RDO frames. I called niner to explain the situation, they ended up charging me $300 for the upgrade, but throwing in a RDO carbon seatpost (on blowout) and a headset (came free with the JET frame but NOT with the RIP for some reason). The warranty process took 4 weeks. I also spent $500 on parts to be able to use the RIP 9 frame (rear hub conversion kit, new cranks and bb due to the english thread, new dropper post because of different seatpost diameters). I've riddent the RIP twice now. I do like the frame, it is definitely a totally different bike, but probably suits my riding a bit better.

    For now, I'm ready to put all this behind me. Yes they warrantied their frames, but the costs and time involved and spending nearly the entire summer off my new bike due to two failures, and entire process of getting to something that WORKS AS INTENDED, just leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I will not be buying another Niner in the future. And if this frame cracks, I'm selling the replacement and not bothering to give them another shot.
    Trek had also many problems and they had the 1st year a 100 procent cost warranty, mabye something for the Jet 9 RDO.
    Race day optimized can't be crack optimized.

    I have the new frame for 1300KM and no problem.
    The frame is an issue more than 30% of the frames came back, answer of BENELUX importer BUSSYBEE on BIKEMOTION show in HOLLAND.
    Last edited by Niner 17; 11-01-2013 at 02:32 PM.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    I ended up upgrading to the RIP 9 RDO, after my two cracked JET 9 RDO frames. I called niner to explain the situation, they ended up charging me $300 for the upgrade, but throwing in a RDO carbon seatpost (on blowout) and a headset (came free with the JET frame but NOT with the RIP for some reason). The warranty process took 4 weeks. I also spent $500 on parts to be able to use the RIP 9 frame (rear hub conversion kit, new cranks and bb due to the english thread, new dropper post because of different seatpost diameters). I've riddent the RIP twice now. I do like the frame, it is definitely a totally different bike, but probably suits my riding a bit better.

    For now, I'm ready to put all this behind me. Yes they warrantied their frames, but the costs and time involved and spending nearly the entire summer off my new bike due to two failures, and entire process of getting to something that WORKS AS INTENDED, just leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I will not be buying another Niner in the future. And if this frame cracks, I'm selling the replacement and not bothering to give them another shot.
    I am going to try this route particularly since my other bike is a V1 JetRDO. Curious, in your opinion how does the Rip RDO compare to the Jet RDO? Is the Rip noticeably much heavier? Any regrets with the Rip?

  79. #179
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    There's a lesson to be learned here.
    Don't ever have only one bike in your garage that way if one breaks you just ride the other one.
    It really sucks to have one broken bike and not being able to ride.
    $300 to upgrade to a RIP 9 RDO sounds like a good deal with the extra goodies however it sure is inconvenient.
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  80. #180
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    Absolutely! 2 bikes is where it is at. If Niner really wanted to please their customers in an instance where 2 of the same bikes fail them (along with the inconvenience, additional expense, being without a bike, the hassle, etc., etc.) they would provide the upgrade to include whatever is necessary, headset, seatpost, etc. at NO CHARGE.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner 17 View Post
    Trek had also many problems and they had the 1st year a 100 procent cost warranty, mabye something for the Jet 9 RDO.
    Race day optimized can't be crack optimized.
    Yes, many first-year Trek Superfly 100 FS frames(2010) were failing at a 97% rate. At least Trek did not minimize the fail figures, and fully owned-up to the fiasco. Trek and Gary Fissure absorbed ALL of the parts transfer costs to buyers, and promptly beefed-up the flexy, lower pivot chainstay bridge, with 30% more UD layup. In two months' time - Trek was able to send out re-designed, serialized swingarms to 2010 Superfly 100 owners....by YEAR-END(07/2010). They even went as far as "Grandfathering" ALL 2010 Superfly 100 FS frames, with a lifetime frame/swingarm warranty, to all original purchasers!

    I understand Niner does not have nearly the resources as a giant like Trek - but at least reduce the pain, by HELPING with frame transfers and/or cut down warranty ETAs....
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  82. #182
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    How do you know they are not? So many assumptions here.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    How do you know they are not? So many assumptions here.
    What are you questioning? There was no offer of a parts transfer allowance, no offer of a new Press Fit BB adaptor, took almost a month with no ETA. I know all of this happened, no speculation. Had I not had a backup bike (also a Jet RDO) I would have been without a bike for a month during peak riding season.

    With this seat tube issue, IMO, what Niner could do is look at the serial number and picture of the crack, send out a shipping return label ASAP (not wait 3 weeks to make a decision), and as soon as they receive tracking information that the faulty frame is on its way back, send out a replacement that is not flawed. I am glad they stand behind their warranty, but it really is annoying and very inconvenient for the second time now.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    What are you questioning? There was no offer of a parts transfer allowance, no offer of a new Press Fit BB adaptor, took almost a month with no ETA. I know all of this happened, no speculation. Had I not had a backup bike (also a Jet RDO) I would have been without a bike for a month during peak riding season.

    With this seat tube issue, IMO, what Niner could do is look at the serial number and picture of the crack, send out a shipping return label ASAP (not wait 3 weeks to make a decision), and as soon as they receive tracking information that the faulty frame is on its way back, send out a replacement that is not flawed. I am glad they stand behind their warranty, but it really is annoying and very inconvenient for the second time now.
    If my frame failed and this was the case I would be pretty pissed. As a college student, a full rebuild ($200) is not in my budget and I do not have a backup bike to ride. I understand that the manufacturing error was unintentional but niner should fix it at no cost to the customer and with a quick turn around time.

  85. #185
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    What are you questioning? There was no offer of a parts transfer allowance, no offer of a new Press Fit BB adaptor, took almost a month with no ETA. I know all of this happened, no speculation. Had I not had a backup bike (also a Jet RDO) I would have been without a bike for a month during peak riding season.

    With this seat tube issue, IMO, what Niner could do is look at the serial number and picture of the crack, send out a shipping return label ASAP (not wait 3 weeks to make a decision), and as soon as they receive tracking information that the faulty frame is on its way back, send out a replacement that is not flawed. I am glad they stand behind their warranty, but it really is annoying and very inconvenient for the second time now.
    Why would they offer a parts transfer allowance? Is that a part of your warranty?

    What everyone fails to see.. If you are running a company, you have policies, and you have to follow them. Their policy isn't to hand out cash for parts transfers that could vary. Why does everyone feel entitled to this?

    I'd say everyone is pretty lucky.. Some manufacturers, and I bet this will happen in this industry, wouldn't even replace the product unless it was assembled by a certified "enter brand here" tech.

    Also, is that what companies do in your experience? Just blindly send stuff out, without receiving defective product? You could be sending them a box of rocks for all they know (it's happened in my past business).

    3 week decisions suck for sure, but again.. They have a process, and they need to follow.

    It seems they are doing a hell of a job to me, I know in a perfect world, and people's opinion is that they hand deliver, and assemble your bike so you could ride the next day... But my question is.. Are they following their warranty policy? Yes. Anything else is opinion, or an assumption.

    I'm not saying it doesn't suck.. Understand that.. I'm just saying everyone is ragging on Niner, and from what I'm seeing, they are doing exactly what they said they would do. I've been in the business, of business for quite a while, and Niner is doing a lot more than most companies would. That's all I'm saying.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Why would they offer a parts transfer allowance? Is that a part of your warranty?

    What everyone fails to see.. If you are running a company, you have policies, and you have to follow them. Their policy isn't to hand out cash for parts transfers that could vary. Why does everyone feel entitled to this?

    I'd say everyone is pretty lucky.. Some manufacturers, and I bet this will happen in this industry, wouldn't even replace the product unless it was assembled by a certified "enter brand here" tech.

    Also, is that what companies do in your experience? Just blindly send stuff out, without receiving defective product? You could be sending them a box of rocks for all they know (it's happened in my past business).

    3 week decisions suck for sure, but again.. They have a process, and they need to follow.

    It seems they are doing a hell of a job to me, I know in a perfect world, and people's opinion is that they hand deliver, and assemble your bike so you could ride the next day... But my question is.. Are they following their warranty policy? Yes. Anything else is opinion, or an assumption.

    I'm not saying it doesn't suck.. Understand that.. I'm just saying everyone is ragging on Niner, and from what I'm seeing, they are doing exactly what they said they would do. I've been in the business, of business for quite a while, and Niner is doing a lot more than most companies would. That's all I'm saying.
    Why a parts exchange allowance for some of us? I have bought 4 Niners now, and one of the RDO's has snapped twice now. Should it become part of their official policy? No. But after 2 failures it would be a nice gesture. If nothing else, maybe a PF BB adaptor (which costs them practically nothing I am sure), something, anything. What about my policy? My policy is getting real close to finding another brand due to this frustration. That is something Niner needs to take into account if they want a 5th purchase from me.

    There is no reason they could not take down a Credit Card number and hold it while the defective frame/product is shipped back, happens all the time in every industry.

    My perfect world....they know they have an issue, you send them the serial number with pictures, you give them your CC number for their assurance, they send out a new frame, you are back on the trail under 2 weeks.

    I agree Niner is doing a hell of a job at sticking to their warranty policy. What they ARE NOT doing a hell of a job with is thoroughly testing their product before inconveniencing customers that have choices.

    What is Niner doing that "most" other companies are not? Honoring a warranty?

    Don't get me wrong, I have loved every Niner I have bought and have had great experiences with every one of them until now. The Jet RDO is the best riding bike I have ever owned and I intend to stick with it, but depending on how Niner handles this, I could very well try another brand and they could lose me for good like others are contemplating.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    Why a parts exchange allowance for some of us? I have bought 4 Niners now, and one of the RDO's has snapped twice now. Should it become part of their official policy? No. But after 2 failures it would be a nice gesture. If nothing else, maybe a PF BB adaptor (which costs them practically nothing I am sure), something, anything. What about my policy? My policy is getting real close to finding another brand due to this frustration. That is something Niner needs to take into account if they want a 5th purchase from me.

    There is no reason they could not take down a Credit Card number and hold it while the defective frame/product is shipped back, happens all the time in every industry.

    My perfect world....they know they have an issue, you send them the serial number with pictures, you give them your CC number for their assurance, they send out a new frame, you are back on the trail under 2 weeks.

    I agree Niner is doing a hell of a job at sticking to their warranty policy. What they ARE NOT doing a hell of a job with is thoroughly testing their product before inconveniencing customers that have choices.

    What is Niner doing that "most" other companies are not? Honoring a warranty?

    Don't get me wrong, I have loved every Niner I have bought and have had great experiences with every one of them until now. The Jet RDO is the best riding bike I have ever owned and I intend to stick with it, but depending on how Niner handles this, I could very well try another brand and they could lose me for good like others are contemplating.
    I think after two frames a person has a right to be upset and I think you are bringing up legitimate complaints and some very good solutions.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphreddy View Post
    I am going to try this route particularly since my other bike is a V1 JetRDO. Curious, in your opinion how does the Rip RDO compare to the Jet RDO? Is the Rip noticeably much heavier? Any regrets with the Rip?
    The Jet and the RIP are very different feeling bikes. The Jet was lighter, faster, a bit longer feeling, a real race machine. I would have loved to have that bike for much longer, but after breaking two in under 100 hours of combined riding, my faith in the frame went out the window.

    However, the RIP 9 is a great bike so far. I've only had three rides on it, the first one was mostly dialing it in and getting used to the bike. The cockpit feels a little more compact (like a trailbike should), and the jury is still out on the 120mm fork with the 125mm rear travel (a casualty of the upgrade), but all in all, I feel the RIP is probably a better fit for me in terms of riding style. It may not be as fast, but its more fun to throw into sketchy downhills and stuff that the Jet would only do "adequately". I feel if I threw a 140mm Pike on this thing, it could probably make a decent all mountain bike, and still kick ass on my local XC loops. I actually have gotten a lot of PRs on the RIP, on downward pointing trails.

    I'm really happy I'm digging the RIP. I don't have some personal vendetta against Niner, and yes, they honored their warranty- I don't think anyone is arguing that. It's just my opinion that if multiple people have cracked the same model carbon bike MORE THAN ONCE, there is a SERIOUS problem going on. One that MAY require to go above and beyond the standard warranty.

  89. #189
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    Despite the obvious issues with manufacturing that have plagued the latest runs of the RDO frames, I believe that Niner is doing exactly what their policy states and in some cases going above and beyond. I know that in my case the first seat tube crack was handled as fast as they could possibly could. Even that was an almost 2 month wait.

    The only misstep that I think Niner did was to publicly state the 1% figure, which I think was a poor PR move on their part. Now waiting for my second seat tube crack replacement frame and seeing the reports of several others who have had multiple breaks, I believe that the failure rate of the latest frames is higher than the number they posted here on the forums. The lead times on replacements would also suggest this.

    Despite this, Niner has handled the warranty process professionally and stands by their product.

    As for the rebuild costs, that really has to do with the policy of your LBS. Niner is not the one charging you for the rebuild, it is the bike shop that you are taking your bike to or the bike shop that is handling your warranty replacement for you. Having a strong distribution network and reliable dealers is about the only thing Niner can do to help with this. In my case the LBS has only ever charged me for rebuilds on crash replacements. If it is a manufacturer defect warranty issue they have stepped up and done the rebuilds at no cost to me. This commitment to customers has made me a very loyal customer and is also one of the reasons I buy local instead of online.

    If you look at the big brands like Trek, Spec, etc. they have more resources and are able to control the customer experience more through their agreements with distribution and shops. This is one of the many reasons they don't sell their bikes online. If one of their dealers is impacted by the costs of a rebuild they have the ability and resources to work with the shop. I'm by no means saying that this always happens, but this is standard practice in any vendor-reseller relationship.

    If you're peeved by the rebuild costs, evaluate the extent to which your shop is helping you out. If They really want your business and are committed to customer satisfaction then they should also be working with you. I know that some shops are small and run on thin product margins. After the cost of paying employees and materials the cost of the rebuild is a loss for them, but this is a complaint that they need to put to Niner and not a burden that they should be passing onto you, the consumer.

  90. #190
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    I'm not peeved about rebuild costs, I'm not peeved about their resolution or their willingess to go above and beyond (they did throw in a seatpost and headset which was nice), i'm moderately peeved about wait times, and REALLY peeved about the lying.

    What lying? Well, when I called them after the second frame broke, I spoke to the warranty rep about my situation, and his response was (as close as I can quote it): "All I can tell you is that unfortunately, you've have tremendously bad luck getting two frames with defects. Only a very tiny margin of those frames have defects that we are aware of and trying to fix. If you were to receive a 3rd frame, we can guarantee you wouldn't have a problem"

    Really? Guarantee? Am I to believe that you have a pile of shitty frames that you know "might" break, and a pile of "guarantee" frames that you know will not? If you do, then maybe send the "guarantee" frames to people who have already cracked one. If you don't (which you don't), don't tell people that they for sure won't crack the third frame, because you obviously don't know that. I really don't think that it is unreasonable to ask for an upgrade from one carbon frame that's failed twice, to another carbon frame that is supposed to be much stronger. Knowing that I'd be shelling out more cash for new parts to make the upgrade work, and with a negligible (if any) cost difference to NINER on the production cost, that upgrade could have very well been on the house. It would be the right thing to do. NINER is not as big as Trek and Spesh, true, but that does afford them the ability to make a call like this without worrying about the books being one frame from perfectly balanced, etc. Those are the perks of a "mom and pop" brand vs. big box, and one of the reasons consumers are encouraged to support smaller brands, is it not?

  91. #191
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    Not trying to get into it with you, and I agree that asking for a different carbon frame is reasonable and shouldn't be any sweat off of Niners back. BUT, when the warranty rep you spoke with offered you this "Guarantee" did you ask them how they planned to back that statement up or how it's possible that they could guarantee it? If I was given this same line I would suspect that they feel confident that they've gotten on top of the manufacturing/quality control issue and that they have positively identified what batches were affected and which ones are not. I'd say that this wasn't the case when you/me/others warrantied our first RDO frames.

    I had the same thought of asking for the RIP9 RDO as a replacement. Only because I feel like I could be more confident riding it and not worry about the frame cracking after 5 rides. In the end I choose to stick with the Jet9 RDO because it suits my riding style more. Also if I have to go through another warranty, I know that my LBS has my back and will keep me rolling.

  92. #192
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    Oh no worries, I'm not arguing, each person is entitled to their own experience and opinion. I'm just trying to explain my position.

    I think it's relatively obvious that Niner has no clue as to which bikes and batches are affected by this defect, as it was supposed to be limited to "1%" of the 2012 frames. My 2013 moondust replacement that I received in June cracked a week into riding. The rear end was flexing so violently that my crank arm was rubbing the chainstay. To me, that's not a situation that at Niner rep should state in a public forum as "not dangerous" (quoted from earlier post):

    • The issue is not dangerous, nor will it fail catastrophically. It is, however, pretty embarrassing. We apologize for the inconvenience it has caused our riders.

    • We made a change in production as soon as the problem was identified. It is confined to less than 1% of production from last season.

    • Whether or not a frame had this issue was obvious when the engineering team inspected our stock. We have removed any frames displaying this problem from our warehouse.

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwandrusz View Post
    Oh no worries, I'm not arguing, each person is entitled to their own experience and opinion. I'm just trying to explain my position.

    I think it's relatively obvious that Niner has no clue as to which bikes and batches are affected by this defect, as it was supposed to be limited to "1%" of the 2012 frames. My 2013 moondust replacement that I received in June cracked a week into riding. The rear end was flexing so violently that my crank arm was rubbing the chainstay. To me, that's not a situation that at Niner rep should state in a public forum as "not dangerous" (quoted from earlier post):

    • The issue is not dangerous, nor will it fail catastrophically. It is, however, pretty embarrassing. We apologize for the inconvenience it has caused our riders.

    • We made a change in production as soon as the problem was identified. It is confined to less than 1% of production from last season.

    • Whether or not a frame had this issue was obvious when the engineering team inspected our stock. We have removed any frames displaying this problem from our warehouse.
    I am glad you re-quoted this because I meant to comment on it. My Jet Carbon Moondust (replacement for first cracked BB shell Jet RDO) is a "2013" I assume. So I also assume that it is THIS season, not last season (the riding season is summer is it not??)
    So if it was "obvious" and the issue was removed from their warehouses, when was this done? How did we get current model bikes that still had this issue? Was it done just in the last few weeks? I hope it truly has been identified and remedied but makes me wonder.
    And to say, 1%.......I'd say it is safe to say that was wishful thinking.
    I know Niner will do the right thing and get this taken care of, but I just wonder how long this will take? Anything more than about 3 weeks, IMO, is too long.

  94. #194
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    Jet 9 RDO Frame Crack

    I'll sum up my point. If I'm buying something, one of the reasons why I buy something will have to do with warranty. House, Cars, Appliances, etc, etc. I'll read through those warranties, and accept them. From there, if something happens, I'll only expect them to live up to those warranties. Which Niner is doing.

    Of course you can be upset, you can kick, and scream.. at the end of the day, Niner is doing exactly what they said they would do if the frame broke.

    If you don't like it, get your replacement, sell it, and move on. That will show them!
    Last edited by five5; 08-21-2013 at 10:16 AM.

  95. #195
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    False alarm

    I have 70 miles on my new and loved Tamale Red Jet 9 Carbon. The new frame with the cable routing that comes out the side like the new rip.
    Just noticed a hair line crack on my seat tube. I am hoping that it is just a crack in the paint and finish but I fear it is not...this is the my first Niner and first non entry level bike I have ever bought. Saved for over a year to get this bike.
    I hope everything works out good
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If fairness to Niner I am updating this post. All is good. It is just a small crack in the paint at a stress point.

    So all is well!
    Last edited by kev84; 08-24-2013 at 09:09 AM.

  96. #196
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    I am an owner of a 2012 jet9rdo that i purchased in March of this year. I have been following this thread and watching my frame for any signs of this failure. I found what appears to be a crack in the frame in this exact location. I stripped the frame down this afternoon and dropped it off at a LBS and I have contacted Niner. We'll see how this goes. Curiously, I did notice that all the images of these cracks/failures have been removed from this thread. Any ideas?

  97. #197
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    I'd be interested to hear Niners view on whether they really have upgraded the frames to get rid of the problem.

    I d rather a few extra grams of UD wrap into the area to make sure it doesn't fail, but I'd hate to go through the hassle of a new frame, and have the new one fail as well.

  98. #198
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    My take on it is it is something that should be easy for niner to get sorted because the 1st year of Jet9 RDO's didn't seem to have this problem, So something has changed & I'm sure they can get it back on track.



    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    I'd be interested to hear Niners view on whether they really have upgraded the frames to get rid of the problem.

    I d rather a few extra grams of UD wrap into the area to make sure it doesn't fail, but I'd hate to go through the hassle of a new frame, and have the new one fail as well.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    I am an owner of a 2012 jet9rdo that i purchased in March of this year. I have been following this thread and watching my frame for any signs of this failure. I found what appears to be a crack in the frame in this exact location. I stripped the frame down this afternoon and dropped it off at a LBS and I have contacted Niner. We'll see how this goes. Curiously, I did notice that all the images of these cracks/failures have been removed from this thread. Any ideas?
    Is this crack down by the front der. mount also? Just curious was your bike a close out model (White, Tang)? Or is it the new green model? Muzz how has your green Jet 9 RDO held up so far? Or is it now collecting dust due to your new RIP RDO?

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Is this crack down by the front der. mount also? Just curious was your bike a close out model (White, Tang)? Or is it the new green model? Muzz how has your green Jet 9 RDO held up so far? Or is it now collecting dust due to your new RIP RDO?
    Mine was the all black model. The crack is in the same place on the seat tube where the other cracks in this thread were located, just above the front derailleur mount on the drive side. It is about 2" long running up the seat tube. I'm still waiting on the LBS to get back to me. Niner says they have plenty of stock in my size.

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