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  1. #1
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    The dreaded EBB creak

    I know this has been beaten to death, but has anyone figured out a solution that doesn't involve a different frame? I'm on my second frame, the EBB was prepped with carbo grip (courtesy of Niner) and while it was quiet for the first few rides, the creak is back. Is doing a BB teardown weekly the only solution to this problem??? I went SS to avoid maintance. Looking for suggestions.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by Breaking Down; 06-07-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    A friend of mine has had good luck over-torquing the sucker. Just make sure you don't torque it more than the bolt can handle (23 Nm for class 80 stainless steel or 24.5 Nm for a class 8.8 bolt).

    The EBB on my Air 9 Carbon (the third) creaks like the two before. More torque on this bike is not an option. I'm about to machine my own EBB. The design is done, just need to have a machine shop make it. It'll have a slightly tighter fit (!!!), go deeper into the frame and have two bolts who will also act as extraction bolts (just like on a crank). It'll also house 30mm press-fit bearings for a Rotor 3D+ crankset.
    blogging @29in.CH

  3. #3
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    I do the bolt up as tight as I can (with 7" of leverage). No idea what the torque is but it is definitely over-torqued. Behaves itself fine. This approach is OK unless you have any oil/grease/lube on the bolt - DON'T over tighten in this case as you will achieve a much higher torque and do some damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by collideous View Post
    I'm about to machine my own EBB. The design is done, just need to have a machine shop make it. It'll have a slightly tighter fit (!!!), go deeper into the frame and have two bolts who will also act as extraction bolts (just like on a crank). It'll also house 30mm press-fit bearings for a Rotor 3D+ crankset.
    Sounds like you need to apply for a patent and then start talking to Niner...

  4. #4
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    Put a Bushnell EBB in the thing and be done with it. I found the Biocentric too finicky for my tastes

  5. #5
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    Great suggestions! Collideous, I think you might be on to something for sure. I too was thinking two bolts instead of one. I've done the grade 8 switch, which eliminates one problem, but have been reluctant to over torque for obvious reasons especially with a harder bolt in already soft material. Onetrack, do you by chance know the part number for the Bushnell EBB that you suggested? That sounds like it might be the ticket to avoid the over torque concerns that I currently have. Thanks again, folks

  6. #6
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    You should be able to order a Busnell EBB from any bike shop. QBP is even a distributor. They only come in one size( at least that I've seen )....
    enjoy the silience

  7. #7
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    I clean all the surfaces really well, prep the face with a very flat sanding block and wet or dry paper, and clean it again with alcohol, wrap about 3 layers of teflon tape over the surface slightly rolling it over the inside edge of the EBB, insert it at about the angle it needs to be without a lot of twisting around inside the shell, grease the bolt and torque to specifications. I get 2 or 3 months out of it in the summer and 1 -2 months in the winter (wet) before dirt and crap infiltrates and creaking begins. I think if I was goint to modify it I would machine a groove into the corner of the EBB below where it rests on the shell and put a big o-ring in there that would be crushed and do a little better job sealing out the dirt/dust/water/mud. I really don't have a problem with the technique above however.....
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  8. #8
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    First ride today - absolute silence - the love for the bike is back



    Bushnell, a 45 cent shim and a new Rotor 3D+ crankset.
    blogging @29in.CH

  9. #9
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    Nice looking EBB. When are you firing up the CNC and going into full production mode....
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  10. #10
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    Glad to see more guys installing Bushnells....Your welcome I ditched the Biocentric after the first crazy loud ride...just wasn't worth the hassle to figure out.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetrack View Post
    Glad to see more guys installing Bushnells....Your welcome I ditched the Biocentric after the first crazy loud ride...just wasn't worth the hassle to figure out.
    The creaking was one reason, this was the other. I had this happen to all of the 3 frames I had.



    Over-torqued?



    Going Bushnell, Niner could probably release a full-carbon SS A9C with a thru&thru carbon shell. Now that would be sweet.
    blogging @29in.CH

  12. #12
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    Shim?

    Quote Originally Posted by collideous View Post
    First ride today - absolute silence - the love for the bike is back



    Bushnell, a 45 cent shim and a new Rotor 3D+ crankset.
    What was your 45 cent shim?
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  13. #13
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    WOW....I can not believe how distorted that shell got. Crazy.
    I am with you....we need a redesign

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FewDaysOnTrail View Post
    What was your 45 cent shim?
    A piece of 0.5mm thick aluminum sheet from my local hardware store. Easily cut to the correct size and just as easily formed around the Bushnell.
    blogging @29in.CH

  15. #15
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    Does anyone have suggestions as to the positioning of the Niner EBB in a new 2012 hydro One9 frame? I have heard varying opinions on this subject such as 5 o'clock positioning etc...

  16. #16
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    Between 3 and 6.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic View Post
    Between 3 and 6.
    Thankyou! I will give that a try today.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHS View Post
    Does anyone have suggestions as to the positioning of the Niner EBB in a new 2012 hydro One9 frame? I have heard varying opinions on this subject such as 5 o'clock positioning etc...
    I positioned it on such a way that that provides max tension to the chain and max clearance to the crank arm from the ground.
    The tension bolt is at about 6 o'clock.

  19. #19
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    hi all, i've owned an air 9 carbon ss for about two months now. i bought a singlespeed thinking i was heading down the simple and uncomplicated route! not this baby. i cannot believe that niner can put this thing on the market with such ongoing problems with the ebb. do they not realise what damage it does to their brand?? surely at this price one shouldn't have to put up with this??

    before i bin my ebb and go the bushnell route, a few questions:

    * is the bushnell a long term fix - how long have those that DO use it been doing so?
    * i see from collideous' blog that he had to remove the front fork to drain water from the frame internals via the headset - why not undo the bushnell & drain it from the bb?
    * is it a mission fitting/removing the bushnell?
    * how easy is it to adjust the bushnell for changing rear sprockets etc?

    thanks dudes

    alan
    cape town, south africa

  20. #20
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    I have built several SS niners and never had any of them creak. Clean, Teflon paste the shell, then torque, and like Eric said position bb between 3 and 6.

  21. #21
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    bushnell wont work on the new one9 since the inside is hollow

  22. #22
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    Well, I got rid of the creaking with the Oatey's pipe joint compound, but unfortunately not the slipping.

    I was needing to readjust after every ride or my chain would just be too loose.

    CarboGrip arrived yesterday ... took everything apart ... claened with CarboMove ... reinstalled with the CarboGrip ...it's pouring rain here in New York, so it should have plenty of time (24 hours until I can get out in the woods again) to "set up."

    I am hoping to be on the list of those with "problem solved" after this ...

    SPP
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigal phillips View Post
    * i see from collideous' blog that he had to remove the front fork to drain water from the frame internals via the headset - why not undo the bushnell & drain it from the bb?
    * is it a mission fitting/removing the bushnell?
    * how easy is it to adjust the bushnell for changing rear sprockets etc?
    It was just a question of what was easier to get the water out quickly. Loosening the Bushnell would have worked as well, but due to the shim draining would have required more time.

    The Bushnell is easy to adjust, loosen one bolt, rotate the EBB, tighten the bolt. The Biocentric route with CarboGrip on the other hand required the use of CarboMove, a rubber mallet and a good portion of patience.

    I've been using the Bushnell for a short while now and it's absolutely quiet and doesn't slip. Without it, I would not have kept the bike.
    blogging @29in.CH

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowPokePete View Post
    Well, I got rid of the creaking with the Oatey's pipe joint compound, but unfortunately not the slipping.

    I was needing to readjust after every ride or my chain would just be too loose.

    CarboGrip arrived yesterday ... took everything apart ... claened with CarboMove ... reinstalled with the CarboGrip ...it's pouring rain here in New York, so it should have plenty of time (24 hours until I can get out in the woods again) to "set up."

    I am hoping to be on the list of those with "problem solved" after this ...

    SPP
    No creaking but still a little slippage ... definitely FRUSTRATED over this.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  25. #25
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    carbogrip is such a pain if you change your cogs often.

  26. #26
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    I'm having a hard time understanding why 1.) an additional moving part (the EBB) and 2.) changes to the geometry every time you adjust chain tension (again EBB) are a good thing. I realize that using vertical drops means quick rear tube changes w/no caliper adjustment....but if the EBB is such a good option, why aren't they used on track bikes? Remember, the EBB was designed to tighten the front chain on a tandem bicycle.....not be subjected to the torque input from strong riders and 180mm cranks. Can anybody REEEELY justify these big blocks of aluminum (re: dead weight)? Especially with the advancements in tubeless technology....
    Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a raindance

  27. #27
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    Having tried and defeated other single speed set-ups I only ever go for ebb now. The niner system was noisy as hell to start with but rock solid even with 220lbs grinding up a 1in3 hill - now it's been carbo-gripped it's also silent.

    Result.

  28. #28
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    I have 2 SIR's with the EBB that have been running error free and silent for me.

    I followed Niner's instructions (page #46) very carefully and used Oatley's. I am a larger rider (220 lbs) and no slippage or noise.
    Marty

  29. #29
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    So can I install a Bushnell ebb on my 2012 One 9? The biocentric has been very frustrating. No creaking just slipping. My bikeshop put on the Oateys but it still slips. If I can't get this resolved the frame is going on ebay. I miss my Jabberwocky.

  30. #30
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    Nope

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkC View Post
    So can I install a Bushnell ebb on my 2012 One 9? The biocentric has been very frustrating. No creaking just slipping. My bikeshop put on the Oateys but it still slips. If I can't get this resolved the frame is going on ebay. I miss my Jabberwocky.
    You can put a bushnell on the frame with a shim that bushnell sells. I uses oateys and it slipped a tiny bit once then it settled into place. the thing i found that did the nost good was greasing the snot out of the bolt. I cant wait to get my hands on the new version though. I heard froma friend that test rides for niner that it was amazing.
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  32. #32
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    When can I get a new EBB? My One9 creaks like an old rocking chair!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic View Post
    When can I get a new EBB? My One9 creaks like an old rocking chair!
    Do you mean the new, Bio-Centric EBB with TWO bolts?

    I thought I had heard September.

    I had to get a new one 5 or 6 weeks ago, and was king of disappointed to hear that there is a new one coming out after buying the current one.

    On the other hand, I would need to know that, with two bolts instead of one, the creaking and slipping problems would be gone.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  34. #34
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    after 4 months of what i thought was ebb creak, i finally figured out the root of my noise. The derailleur hanger was loose. Anyone with a 2012 one nine, check it!

  35. #35
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    Threads like this prove that Internet can be a wonderful place. I was about ready to toss my Air Nine off of a friggn cliff (which is a shame, because I LOVE my SS), because I absolutely HATE creaking and my bike has been in the shop way too many times. I opted to try the Carver EBB since it was cheaper and see how it works out. Anything has to be better than the stock EBB. Geez.
    Thanks guys!

  36. #36
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    $1899 for a carbon frame that has a creeking BB design = NOT COOL

  37. #37
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hampsterstyle View Post
    I'm having a hard time understanding why 1.) an additional moving part (the EBB) and 2.) changes to the geometry every time you adjust chain tension (again EBB) are a good thing. I realize that using vertical drops means quick rear tube changes w/no caliper adjustment....but if the EBB is such a good option, why aren't they used on track bikes? Remember, the EBB was designed to tighten the front chain on a tandem bicycle.....not be subjected to the torque input from strong riders and 180mm cranks. Can anybody REEEELY justify these big blocks of aluminum (re: dead weight)? Especially with the advancements in tubeless technology....
    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    $1899 for a carbon frame that has a creeking BB design = NOT COOL
    Agree
    "Prollyisnotprobably"

  38. #38
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    Anyone seen the new EBB II yet? I've obviously seen them on the SIR 9 but was wondering when they were being released individually.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoplea View Post
    I have 2 SIR's with the EBB that have been running error free and silent for me.

    I followed Niner's instructions (page #46) very carefully and used Oatley's. I am a larger rider (220 lbs) and no slippage or noise.

    Niner moved their instructions to https://s3.amazonaws.com/NinerDocs/N...RS_UNIVERS.pdf. Check out page #47 for EBB and EBB II install instructions.
    Marty

  40. #40
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    Got mine in the mail yesterday! Thx Niner.
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  41. #41
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    Just installed a Bushnell and shim in my nearly new One9. Got some noise, but it turned out to be the crankset loosening up. Still early yet, but I am hopeful.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic View Post
    Got mine in the mail yesterday! Thx Niner.
    Let us know how it works for you.
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  43. #43
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic View Post
    So I take that it didn't work for you ?
    Bummer
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  45. #45
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    It sounds like from his eBay ad that he never even tried the v2 ebb.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
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  46. #46
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    Never tried it. Decided to get away from the SS life for a while. Bike is insanely light and fast.
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  47. #47
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    Just got an EBB II in the past week. I've yet to do more than riding around town but with the Oatey's and the much lower torque measurement on the 2 bolts I'm pretty satisfied and excited to get back on the bike and enjoy my favorite of all my bikes! No noise, and no slipping as of this time. I will keep you all updated.

    I really never had an issue with the single bolt, but as always Niner took care of me after a small issue and I have installed a black EBB II in my 2010 A9C frame and will be thoroughly testing it this weekend.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic View Post
    Never tried it. Decided to get away from the SS life for a while. Bike is insanely light and fast.
    Why didn't you convert it to geared ?
    The one nine frame is awesome and light as you mentioned....
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by StumpyElite2010 View Post
    Why didn't you convert it to geared ?
    The one nine frame is awesome and light as you mentioned....
    Decided to go FS29 for my next rig.
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  50. #50
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    I can't wait for the BioC III with THREE bolts.

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