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  1. #1
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    Air nine Carbon delay

    I had been considering a racing type hardtail 29er, and had consicered the Air 9, but don't love Aluminum ride properties. I have heard all of the improvements of Scandium, but overall would prefer a Carbon frame. I was really interested in the Air 9 carbon, but now I see that it is delayed, and I would assume that it probably is due to reliability/durability issues with the carbon... But I don't know of course. Does anyone know what caused the holdup and what the possible projected date of availability will be?

    I really love how this frame looks, but Reliability is very important. Just ask my 1995 Trek OCLV bike. It has provided me years ofreliable peasure... Racing, riding Moab, road training rides.

  2. #2
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    Take a look at their press release from 05/21/2010.

  3. #3
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    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    the delay is due to capacity shortages in asia.

    basically all major brands are using a few manufactures and right now EVERYBODY is out of carbon frames. obviously, the big players like S or trek got more purchasing power to get some more frames whereas the smaller players are being delayed.

    not much niner can do here IMO.

  5. #5
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    Perfect time for Niner to get with the boys and girls in Tennessee and build a Ti9......

  6. #6
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    Geee - if the demand is that high, and there is a lack of facilities in ASIA to make the frames - perhaps someone should step up and get a facility going here in the US to do some CF frame and fork (as well as bars and seatposts, etc..). Pay folks here to build bikes that will be (most likely) bought and ridden here. If there are jobs that pay people enough money to buy things like nice bikes, they will - if all the jobs are in asia, India, etc... then there won't be anyone here spending on a nice bike. /Rant
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgerat
    Perfect time for Niner to get with the boys and girls in Tennessee and build a Ti9......

    A Ti9 with the inter-changeable BB shell inserts (as per Air Carbon 9), oh hell yeah

  8. #8
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    I'd be curious as to the final outcome, that day you were buying a carbon frame, and were faced with the cost difference between 2 equally high quality products, one made in Asia, in in the US.

    If responsible purchasing were an actual characteristic of the American shopper, Walmart wouldn't exist and we would all belong to CSA programs.
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  9. #9
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    And while this isn't a World-Changing venue, I think that the price difference between that US-made and the Asian-made CF frame would still depend solely on the profit margin that the distributor/reseller decided that they want. CF fabrication (or other) moving to Asia did not lower consumer prices much, if any. It increased margins. Asian CF quality is outstanding, as is U.S. - as long as they follow the proper procedures. My comment was more that if there is a demand, and the locations there cannot supply - why not put some of the millions of out of work here into a facility so more of the people who would be riding these bikes can afford them?

    Now - that Ti bike thought is much more appealing! driver bob's comment is one of those that makes me think "Last bike I'd ever need to buy" thoughts!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATBScott
    And while this isn't a World-Changing venue, I think that the price difference between that US-made and the Asian-made CF frame would still depend solely on the profit margin that the distributor/reseller decided that they want. CF fabrication (or other) moving to Asia did not lower consumer prices much, if any. It increased margins. Asian CF quality is outstanding, as is U.S. - as long as they follow the proper procedures. My comment was more that if there is a demand, and the locations there cannot supply - why not put some of the millions of out of work here into a facility so more of the people who would be riding these bikes can afford them?

    Now - that Ti bike thought is much more appealing! driver bob's comment is one of those that makes me think "Last bike I'd ever need to buy" thoughts!
    Dave Turner of Turner bikes claims that a US made Edge Composites front triangle would add $1000 to the cost of one of his already very expensive bikes.

    So, $3500 US made frames with carbon front tris and aluminum rears.

    I suspect that the tooling costs alone would never be recouped, nevermind making a profit, as sales volume would be so low.
    Supply Side Jesusnonomist

  11. #11
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    TiNiner

    Actually Niner had a Ti hardtail at Interbike 08 I believe, but they never actually made it available to the public. Anyone remember the pics of this or if anyone was there, did they see it?

    Would be interesting for sure.

  12. #12
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    TiNiner

    Actually Niner had a Ti hardtail at Interbike 08 I believe, but they never actually made it available to the public. Anyone remember the pics of this or if anyone was there, did they see it?

    Would be interesting for sure.

  13. #13
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    Wish it was that simple. It isn't.
    I only attempt to change the world in the appropriate World-Changing venues and forums.

  14. #14
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  15. #15
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    ....be still my beating heart....

    I can see past the graphics, close your eye's and picture laser etched Niner logo's......

  16. #16
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    I still want a Ti Niner SS. Badly.
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard3rd
    I had been considering a racing type hardtail 29er, and had consicered the Air 9, but don't love Aluminum ride properties. I have heard all of the improvements of Scandium, but overall would prefer a Carbon frame. I was really interested in the Air 9 carbon, but now I see that it is delayed, and I would assume that it probably is due to reliability/durability issues with the carbon... But I don't know of course. Does anyone know what caused the holdup and what the possible projected date of availability will be?

    I really love how this frame looks, but Reliability is very important. Just ask my 1995 Trek OCLV bike. It has provided me years ofreliable peasure... Racing, riding Moab, road training rides.
    Just wait for the OCLV GF Superfly hardtail some are predicting will be out next year. That should be pretty bomber (for carbon). Of course OCLV hasn't helped the swingarm on the SF100 (although that appears to have just one production run).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishlips
    Just wait for the OCLV GF Superfly hardtail some are predicting will be out next year. That should be pretty bomber (for carbon). Of course OCLV hasn't helped the swingarm on the SF100 (although that appears to have just one production run).
    I would but I don't get on with G2 geometry.

  19. #19
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    Niner - reconsider the Ti!

  20. #20
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    HAHA they dont even use their own carbon forks with the Ti frame.. How messed up is that.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcgrew
    HAHA they dont even use their own carbon forks with the Ti frame.. How messed up is that.
    I think it's because those frames were made, and those pics taken (2007? 2008?), before Niner ever had any carbon forks.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
    I think it's because those frames were made, and those pics taken (2007? 2008?), before Niner ever had any carbon forks.
    No think about it, that's exactly why that fork is on there.

    Someone needs a facepalm !!!
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  23. #23
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    I've said it countless times. Niner should've made the Ti frame before jumping on the carbon bandwagon. There'd be normal people racing and riding them right now, unlike the carbon frames.

    Whoever mentioned talking to the people in tennessee about building a Ti frame, I'd say that might just be a good idea. I ended up going that route, but niner didn't make any money on that deal. Have to say, once I got used to it I actually like lynskey's 2010 geo more than I liked my MCR's. While I may buy another niner in the future, its much less likely now.

    While there's some weight behind the fact that other 'bigger' companies are swallowing up production capacity for carbon frames it is something that should've been considered long before jumping headfirst into the carbon arena. It's fairly obvious that analysis on production bottlenecks wasn't a high priority for niner on this one. At least they're honest and admit to the problem. Can only hope they're learning from it.

  24. #24
    Where's Toto?
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    Ti please

  25. #25
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    I'd buy a ti9 in size small right now if Niner would do it and be done with bike shopping for a long long time. As long as they don't do ti I "have" to look to Lynskey, Black Sheep, Eriksen, DeSalvo and others.....
    Isaac

  26. #26
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    Argh cr@p...my LBS just showed me the new carbon Cannondale's which are shipping 3rd quarter this year.

  27. #27
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    BMC has opened a fully automated carbon frame factory in switzerland. They claim that they will not have any production variances compared to the handbuild asia frames. You even get life waranty! They have made bad experiences in the past with their partners in asia ... just a hint :-)

  28. #28
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    double wow, a Ti Niner with DT carbon fork, thats strange? Probably why this person selling his niner fork at a high rate in flee-buy, see item = 370406177668

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeRacer
    double wow, a Ti Niner with DT carbon fork, thats strange? Probably why this person selling his niner fork at a high rate in flee-buy, see item = 370406177668

    OK, for the record the Niner carbon fork came 12-18 MONTHS AFTER the titanium prototypes.

    - The titanium prototypes were also DESIGNED around a DT Swiss 440mm A 2 C fork.

    I rode the one of the ti proto's for about a year. It was nice, but the carbon bike is a whole different animal and a full two pounds lighter at least.

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  30. #30
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    Sooo....the last official update from Niner on A9C delivery was "first week of July" (as per May newsletter) for first batch mediums and tapered carbon forks. It is now the second week of July and I haven't heard a peep about my frame...has anyone heard any recent updates on delivery?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
    ... has anyone heard any recent updates on delivery?
    My shop told me that the frame's been unfortunately delayed for another month (mid August). I was looking forward to riding it this summer, but that's not going to happen.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by collideous
    My shop told me that the frame's been unfortunately delayed for another month (mid August). I was looking forward to riding it this summer, but that's not going to happen.
    Bummer. Looks like it'll be a 2011 race bike for many that pre-ordered... if they're even ready by then. It's really too bad, seemed like a promising frame but now it'll be late to the party with many of the competitors being in their 2nd or 3rd generation. With the number of 29er S-works hardtails I'm seeing around the midwest XC races this year it's no question that this could've been a hot seller earlier this year.

    I just hope when this unicorn is created it's nearly bombproof and truely amazing. With the other companies being in their 2nd or 3rd generation they've already had time to work out the kinks. Hopefully niner has some people out beating on these frames like there's no tomorrow as we speak, otherwise I worry about what may happen.

  33. #33
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    For now looks like my next race bike will be a Flash Carbon 29'er SS...just don't tell Cannondale

    Then by mid 2011 I am hoping there will be some stock on Carbon Air9's and I can dump the Flash and switch back to Niner.

  34. #34
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    Looks like one arrived at a shop in Italy.

  35. #35
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    Light at end of tunnel coming soon?

    Just spoke with my shop who spoke with Niner...the word they got was that the first shipment of mediums should be arriving next week. BUT all of them are TANG.

    so if you ordered Tang, I suppose you are in luck. If you ordered White (like me..dammit) then I supposse we wait a little longer.

    don't want to spread rumors, but just passing along what my shop just told me as they heard it from their rep.
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  36. #36
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    Just pulled the trigger on a Cannondale for next years race bike.

    With the large number of back ordered Carbon9's it was pretty obvious I was not going to get one for the 2011 season.

    The Cannondale will be a "project" bike and once the Carbon9 has some availability I'll look at trading back then.

    I'll still have the One9's in the garage and they will be my everyday bikes.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob
    Just pulled the trigger on a Cannondale for next years race bike.

    With the large number of back ordered Carbon9's it was pretty obvious I was not going to get one for the 2011 season.

    The Cannondale will be a "project" bike and once the Carbon9 has some availability I'll look at trading back then.

    I'll still have the One9's in the garage and they will be my everyday bikes.
    Guessing you don't have your order in? Maybe I'm overly optimistic but these things gotta start shipping soon. Or at least we ought to see an update from Chris soon.

  38. #38
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    No, I was not in the financial position to order one then.

    My fingers are crossed for everyone who has one on order. I'm looking forward to getting one for 2012.

  39. #39
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    i heard also that Tang were the lucky ones... (hopefully me!)

    Apparently they are all stuck in customs... but that at least should mean they are on US soil???

    i too am waiting with baited breath, the SWorks 2011 looks a beauty will be available sept i expect???
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  40. #40
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Yes it does make you wonder how long it will be before they catch up & have stock of frames & forks so you can just ring up & order 1.
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  41. #41
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    "Stuck in customs" is that the story they are using this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by dparry
    i heard also that Tang were the lucky ones... (hopefully me!)

    Apparently they are all stuck in customs... but that at least should mean they are on US soil???

    i too am waiting with baited breath, the SWorks 2011 looks a beauty will be available sept i expect???
    Last year when my air9 was 3 months past due on the promised delivery date they told me it was "in the air" being airfreighted from China. They kept saying that it was in the air for a week and a half. I guess they send their airfreight by blimp.

    Just face the facts that we all know are true. There will be few, if any A9C frames delivered this riding season. And don't think I'm trying to be a troll, I have an A9 and put a deposit on an A9C the first day. I love the bikes, but with the way they treat their customers and dealers, I'm just hoping my LBS will keep their Niner dealership long enough for me to take delivery of my frame. To their credit they have hired a new CS rep who actually returns phone calls. I am happy though that I've been able to subsidize their business for the past 6 months or so with my $500 loan.

  42. #42
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    thats not what i wanted to hear...... not sure why they would do that big press release a while back stating early July, but it could be for the $500 as you say!

    surely it would make more sense to be upfront and honest if there are more problems. i dont get it..... if it is delayed much more, my order will be being withdrawn... dont want to miss first batch from other manufacturers on continually moving timeline.....
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  43. #43
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    I canceled in April and talked to a bunch of builders. Was able to get my custom Ti HT sorted out, delivered, and shaken-down before there's been any A9Cs delivered to waitlistees. I still like the concept A9C, but just to many unknowns to feel comfortable with it and to justify the wait.

  44. #44
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    Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that they included no updates in the most recent niner update email??? Even if it's out of their hands some accurate and up to date information would be helpful for many. All the heresay and false promises just makes it worse.

  45. #45
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    i thought exactly the same thing, as there was such a song and dance around their 'early July' update! not a good sign. thinking of bailing to the big S.. 29er HT looks great, 2nd gen etc etc etc
    Niner Air 9 Carbon, 2010 S-WORKS 26" HT/FSR, 2009 Ibis Hakkalugi, 2008 Strange 5 Alpine.

  46. #46
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    We are shipping Air 9 Carbon frames,Med and Large sizes, but delivery is still slow. We are still facing the same production issues we gave in past newsletters. We are getting frames but only a few a week. Sorry this is the best information for now.

    Chris
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  47. #47
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    Hope a tang one will be on its way to Mainstreet 42 in Switzerland soon

  48. #48
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    Thanks for the update Chris. I was expecting 300 frames to get to you guys early July from the press release. Assume that hasn't been the case if they are arriving in 1 and 2s? I think everybody here is supportive but there is only so much we can wait. A bi weekly or similar update would be great... Even if nothing new, just lets us know people are working on it. We just have conflicting dealer info at present and rumors to go on.. It's no wonder enthusiasts and supporters are getting a little narked!
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dparry
    Thanks for the update Chris. I was expecting 300 frames to get to you guys early July from the press release. Assume that hasn't been the case if they are arriving in 1 and 2s? I think everybody here is supportive but there is only so much we can wait. A bi weekly or similar update would be great... Even if nothing new, just lets us know people are working on it. We just have conflicting dealer info at present and rumors to go on.. It's no wonder enthusiasts and supporters are getting a little narked!
    +1. Well said.

  50. #50
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    I did weigh a medium frame without seatcollar or required bb insert and on digi ulti scale weight 2.98 lbs.
    Sure wish they would ship a nude version. Hey, cut down on time painting, just quick clearcoat. Many long-time carbon bike jeeks like the non-painted.

  51. #51
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    Well I guess I'm lucky.... My frame is at the dealers.... No headset but I can live with that for now (it's in the post!!)... Should take delivery next week!!!! I have all the bits waiting to go so will post when I get my mitts on it. Going 1x10 xtr/XX, new fox terralogic fork, stans crest wheels... Pics to follow. Thanks Niner!!!!!
    Last edited by dparry; 07-29-2010 at 06:28 AM.
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    If anyone cares, I found this on RocknRoad's blog. Looks like they got some Air 9 Carbons in.

    http://rocknroadcyclery.blogspot.com/

  53. #53
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    I think Colorado cyclist may have 1 also (I ended sourcing mine from local dealer!)
    Niner Air 9 Carbon, 2010 S-WORKS 26" HT/FSR, 2009 Ibis Hakkalugi, 2008 Strange 5 Alpine.

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    HMMM, seems funny that these dealers have them available for sale when there are guys who have already PAID their $500 deposit and don't have frames yet. Granted these dealers may have also put down $500 deposits for these frames, but it would be nice if more people who actually ordered bikes for their personal use would get them before they are displayed on shop walls. Just would be nice if NINER decided to support the end user for a change.

  55. #55
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofs1
    HMMM, seems funny that these dealers have them available for sale when there are guys who have already PAID their $500 deposit and don't have frames yet. Granted these dealers may have also put down $500 deposits for these frames, but it would be nice if more people who actually ordered bikes for their personal use would get them before they are displayed on shop walls. Just would be nice if NINER decided to support the end user for a change.
    How do you know they didn't put there money down aswell ??
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    I don't, that's why the post said "Granted these dealers may have put down $500 deposits for these frames" it doesn't change the fact someone there seems to be A9C's arriving at dealers which were not presold to customers while people are waiting for theirs to arrive.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofs1
    HMMM, seems funny that these dealers have them available for sale when there are guys who have already PAID their $500 deposit and don't have frames yet. Granted these dealers may have also put down $500 deposits for these frames, but it would be nice if more people who actually ordered bikes for their personal use would get them before they are displayed on shop walls. Just would be nice if NINER decided to support the end user for a change.
    Agree with you in principle but bike manufacturers sell to dealers and not direct to customers. How would Niner know if it was a fake name that came with a $500 deposit? Or what if a dealer had someone cancel and gave that end user their $500 back and took delivery themselves. I don't like it that there is a frame on the wall somewhere while I still wait for mine but I don't think the burden is on Niner to fix that and every other social injustice. In my mind Niner has supported end users more than one would expect but we just have to be realistic about what we ask for.

    Now maybe you could fault the bike shop for doing this but are they really breaking any rules? Personally I wish we could point to a rule that was broken so I could get mine sooner but I don't think it is there.

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    Wasn't trying to suggest a conspiracy, just commenting on the irony of framesets available in a shop when there are so many who have been desperately waiting for theirs to arrive.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofs1
    Wasn't trying to suggest a conspiracy, just commenting on the irony of framesets available in a shop when there are so many who have been desperately waiting for theirs to arrive.
    I don't like it but agreed.

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    due to the delay some of the customers may have backed out.

    also, i understand that some of the frame should early go to the shops for display and advertising. everything else wouldn't make much sense, it's still business.

  61. #61
    30-ton War Machine
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    Colorado Cyclist has medium tang in stock now.

  62. #62
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    this is driving my crazy now. i get back to US in 4 days and get mine built up!! anybody got any pics of what they have done to theirs?
    Niner Air 9 Carbon, 2010 S-WORKS 26" HT/FSR, 2009 Ibis Hakkalugi, 2008 Strange 5 Alpine.

  63. #63
    i don't give a shift
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    Quote Originally Posted by dparry
    anybody got any pics of what they have done to theirs?
    Still waiting for a medium tang with fork ... have a build list, though.

  64. #64
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    very nice!!! see below (i've stolen your format )

    this time next week will be rolling!!!

    frame: tang niner air9 carbon M
    fork: Fox 2011 F29 Terralogic
    stem: thomson
    headset: cane creek
    handlebar: edge composite 710mm
    brakes: SRAM XX
    rotors (f/r): SRAM 160/160mm
    hubs: American Classic 15QR front, QR rear
    rims: Stans Crest 29er
    spokes: dt swiss
    skewers (f/r): american classic
    tires (f/r): Kenda Small Block 8s run tubeless
    bottle cage: Specialized
    seatpost: thomson
    seatpost clamp: DKG
    saddle: charge spoon
    cranks: XTR 177.5
    pedals: XTR
    bottom bracket: XTR
    chainring: renthal single ring
    chain: SRAM 1090R
    cassette: SRAM XX 36
    R der: SRAM XX
    F Der: MRP 1.x guide.
    ridden: next week
    status: ready to go...
    Last edited by dparry; 08-06-2010 at 08:51 AM.
    Niner Air 9 Carbon, 2010 S-WORKS 26" HT/FSR, 2009 Ibis Hakkalugi, 2008 Strange 5 Alpine.

  65. #65
    fux
    fux is offline
    Scooterist
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    We have one sat on my desk at work and I can`t stop drooling.

    Unfortunatly we didn`t get the bb inserts so can`t get it built yet. Its a sexy frame for sure.
    Disclaimer. I now sell bicycles and bicycle tyres.

    instacrap ----> http://instagram.com/manx71/

  66. #66
    mtbr member
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    I saw 2 orange ones at Robinson Wheel Works in Nor Cal. I picked one up, it is freakishly light. I can see how someone can build a 16-18 lb. race machine.

  67. #67
    more skier than biker
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    Well, it is definitely encouraging to see these frames beginning to arrive on the shores. Keeping posting build pictures please!!!

    As for me, I am still awaiting my size medium vana white frame that I put a deposit down on in December.....but at least there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel
    Kappius Components Ambassador - Ping me a note for a discount code

  68. #68
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    ordered mine last year august ...

  69. #69
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    I know Dave Zabriskie expressed interest in one last November... I wonder if his has arrived yet?

  70. #70
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    I know Dave Zabriskie expressed interest in one last November... I wonder if his has arrived yet?
    Oh no your not thinking he could have jumped up the waiting list
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  71. #71
    Where's Toto?
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    Are the carbon tapered forks arriving with the frames?

    What headset does the A9C use - and can it be used with a reducer on the lower crown to use a straight 1-1/8 inch steerer tube fork?

  72. #72
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    back in US and picked up frame!! looks fantastic, very burly looking but crazy light. will be built for this weekend.

    <table style="width:194px;"><tr><td align="center" style="height:194px;background:url(http://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/tran...background.gif) no-repeat left"><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dparry/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCKuo_cy__PapnQE&feat=embedwe bsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Bvxl1mfhvmU/TGK53nBrRaE/AAAAAAAAMLM/kXzUt_OlBrE/s160-c/DropBox.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="margin:1px 0 0 4px;"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px"><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dparry/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCKuo_cy__PapnQE&feat=embedwe bsite" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>
    Last edited by dparry; 08-11-2010 at 09:46 AM.
    Niner Air 9 Carbon, 2010 S-WORKS 26" HT/FSR, 2009 Ibis Hakkalugi, 2008 Strange 5 Alpine.

  73. #73
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    How much does it weight?

  74. #74
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    sorry, didnt check. with the cable routing effort required (many curse words!!) i'm not going to strip it down again.... needless to say, felt crazy light out the box. just waiting for the chaincatcher solution to appear and then will weigh whole bike... i'm expecting 20lb... hopefully under.
    Niner Air 9 Carbon, 2010 S-WORKS 26" HT/FSR, 2009 Ibis Hakkalugi, 2008 Strange 5 Alpine.

  75. #75
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    Any word on when the XLs will (realistically) be available?

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