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  1. #1
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    For you 29er Haters ;)

    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    i was a hater - thought it was marketing BS ............. until i properly rode one............................

    the waiting is the hardest part

  3. #3
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    Hear you, the waiting is always the hardest part....

    I am all cool if a 29er platform is not for everyone, all I ask is that people ride a 29er platform before dissing them....


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks View Post
    i was a hater - thought it was marketing BS ............. until i properly rode one............................

    the waiting is the hardest part
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe View Post
    One of the worst-written articles I have read this year on the web, but still interesting to read comparisons based on extensive riding.

    I'll probably look at getting a 2nd Nicolai in 2013 - which one will depend on where I'll be living then - and I'll certainly be trying a 29er out, if there is one for that model. Although it sounds like a lot of people report taking a week or so to get used to the differences.

    I don't care about the speed advantage, though.

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    I feel it's time to be really honest about something. Seriously, I need to get it off my chest because it's really been bothering me for some time.

    The reason I've resisted the idea of 29ers is because I don't think they look as good as 26ers.

    There I've said it! Phew that's a load off my mind. Seriously, that's the only reason I can honestly come up with as to why I've never even thrown a leg over one. Sure, in my head I have all the other more pragmatic reasons why I think they're a bad idea; not as maneuverable, higher centre of gravity etc, but deep down I know that they are all unsubstantiated and possibly, by all accounts, entirely wrong. The article by Steve Jones is starting to confirm that suspicion.

    It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the primary reason for being against the idea is because of aesthetics. It's ridiculous I know and perhaps riding a decent one would be enough to help overcome that feeling.

    Having said that Whafe, I really do like your AM. It is honestly the first 29er that I've looked at and thought 'phowar' I don't care so much for the AC, but the AM is class.

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    I think that's because everything on the am is in proportion. My new 29er ht you would struggle to realise its a 29er because the frame is so big!

  7. #7
    steep fast and loose :)
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    geetee - seriously ? how tall / heavy are you ?

    i was ULTRA-SUSPICIOUS until I demo'd dippers AC. REVELATION ! technicla climbs are a breeze and corner speed / grip is massively improved.

  8. #8
    steep fast and loose :)
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    jumped back on 26" this week, and the nervousness and twitchiness was unsettling in comparison.

    i'll be getting rid of the remaining 26" bikes in the near future....

    i'm sold on 29", but at 6' tall and just riding technical trails, i suppose it was inevitable......

  9. #9
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    The awkward look of a 29er completely disappears when you are on a huge frame. I'm 6'-5" tall and every 26" bike I've ever had looked ridiculous. For us tall guys, it actually brings things into proportion. I have a buddy that rides a small Karate Monkey, and for some strange reason, the big wheels on the small frame actually look bad a$$.

    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    I feel it's time to be really honest about something. Seriously, I need to get it off my chest because it's really been bothering me for some time.

    The reason I've resisted the idea of 29ers is because I don't think they look as good as 26ers.

    There I've said it! Phew that's a load off my mind. Seriously, that's the only reason I can honestly come up with as to why I've never even thrown a leg over one. Sure, in my head I have all the other more pragmatic reasons why I think they're a bad idea; not as maneuverable, higher centre of gravity etc, but deep down I know that they are all unsubstantiated and possibly, by all accounts, entirely wrong. The article by Steve Jones is starting to confirm that suspicion.

    It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the primary reason for being against the idea is because of aesthetics. It's ridiculous I know and perhaps riding a decent one would be enough to help overcome that feeling.

    Having said that Whafe, I really do like your AM. It is honestly the first 29er that I've looked at and thought 'phowar' I don't care so much for the AC, but the AM is class.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    I feel it's time to be really honest about something. Seriously, I need to get it off my chest because it's really been bothering me for some time.

    The reason I've resisted the idea of 29ers is because I don't think they look as good as 26ers.

    There I've said it! Phew that's a load off my mind. Seriously, that's the only reason I can honestly come up with as to why I've never even thrown a leg over one. Sure, in my head I have all the other more pragmatic reasons why I think they're a bad idea; not as maneuverable, higher centre of gravity etc, but deep down I know that they are all unsubstantiated and possibly, by all accounts, entirely wrong. The article by Steve Jones is starting to confirm that suspicion.

    It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the primary reason for being against the idea is because of aesthetics. It's ridiculous I know and perhaps riding a decent one would be enough to help overcome that feeling.

    Having said that Whafe, I really do like your AM. It is honestly the first 29er that I've looked at and thought 'phowar' I don't care so much for the AC, but the AM is class.
    Geetee, the first step to recovery is acknowledgement

    Its an appalling article, fraught with issues, lacking in stated assumptions, which I can't be bothered to rant about again. I did that on twitter to Mr Jones.

    Geometry, geometry, geometry.... want more stable, sorry, easier to ride fast with less skill, have longer wheelbase (Oh 29er then) etc etc. OR slacker head angle, OR.......there is more than one solution depending on what you like and how you like to ride. Or is the compromise in the middle...more news on that later

    Like Whafe I had a Jones for quite a long time and rode it exclusively, including the much publicised Trans Provence race. The geometry on that was what made it such an awesome handling bike, not the fact it had 29" wheels. In fact it had a 26" front wheel with a muther of a fat tyre on it making it a 29er diameter in effect, a fact I pointed out to Mr Jones.

    If I rode a trail over and over again on one kind of bike, that I freely admit takes some adjusting too and then switched back to another for a run, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which one you'd be faster on....

    Should you want grip and ability to roll over stuff, fit a 3.8 or 4.0 tyre(s) then you will experience cornering grip!!. Sandman have been testing German:A 100mm forked version of such a fat bike in the alps for a while...so why don't we build full suss versions, well because there are compromises like everything in life, drivetrain, Q factor etc etc..much like geometry.

    My Jones Spaceframe took no adjusting to, in technique terms it was the same, just felt like an extension of me like any good bike. Jeff didn't have to make many compromises in geo in designing his bike for what he wanted it to do, e.g chainstay length, a2c etc because his bikes are rigid he has less variables to worry about like suspension travel/seat tube compromises, Head angle change under braking etc, the wheelbase was almost exactly that of a 26' bike, but crucially the trail was such that that stability was added without having to compromise steering response/HA and thus climbing. A short wheelbase allows a lower BB too, think SWB landrover, without compromising ground clearance....there is that compromise again...

    The big guys and clued up guys like Whafe etc who have gone custom are getting there too now fork manufacturers are catching up, but there are still compromises, always will be.

    Geetee, I like the look of both, and riding both, at least the ones I've owned, with the exception of the Singular Swift which I wasn't keen on, too high and twitchy.

    It will be interesting to see if any of the Enduro guys, Fabien Barel, Nico Voullioz, Jerome Clementz, Karim Amour, Mark Weir tackle Trans Provence or the SuperEnduro series in Italy on a 29er next year, more of their sponsors are producing 29 AM bikes now.

    So I would quite like the wheelbase of a 26', with the, undoubtedly better, roll over small/medium obstacles of a 29er, the steering speed of a 26" with the stability of a 29er but without having to resort to crazy slack head angles causing climbing compromises..and flopping but also without very steep head angles, usually a result on a 29er of adjusting to the wheelbase...

    I am hatching a plan
    Aka chainline...

  11. #11
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    U mad my 29r's be styling on your baby 26r?
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  12. #12
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    Wafe, you gotta try a 34 on your big bike, got a little ride time recently and was impressed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    U mad my 29r's be styling on your baby 26r?


    Good find Whafe, and I can't wait to be on a 29er next season, the hardest part is picking the right frame. And like someone said, 29ers look very well proportioned in the bigger sizes especially. I look like a dork sometimes riding my 26er Transition TransAM 19.5" being 6'4".
    konahonzo

  14. #14
    gran jefe
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    The orange one looks approximately 100 times better than the blue one. Just sayin'.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    The orange one looks approximately 100 times better than the blue one. Just sayin'.

    i like the blue on better than the orange....... but my AC 29er is going to be an explosion of colour for me !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    The orange one looks approximately 100 times better than the blue one. Just sayin'.
    I disagree. I think the orange one only looks 20 times better than the blue one.

  17. #17
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    being picky and honest about the colour, the orange looks killer in the flesh, but the fork looks a bit dull to be honest, cant really tell in the photo. But the same pantene colour on aluminum and magnesium doesnt come out the same, trust me on that.....

    The blue on the monster truck is awesome, def my favorite....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  18. #18
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    whafe - what gear ratio's do you run on your 29"ers ?

  19. #19
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    What trail is that in the second pic?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama View Post
    What trail is that in the second pic?
    The second picture, the one in the air is at Woodhill MTB Park just north of Auckland, on a jump called AV8R....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe View Post
    The second picture, the one in the air is at Woodhill MTB Park just north of Auckland, on a jump called AV8R....
    Whoa, I'm lame! I meant the 4th pic, sorry.

  22. #22
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    whafe - what gear ratio's do you use on the 29"ers ?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks View Post
    whafe - what gear ratio's do you use on the 29"ers ?
    Sorry slow reply, been away working...

    Rear cluster on the Monster Truck is 34 - 11, front sprocket is 32T

    Rear cluster on the Tangerine Dream is 36 - 11, front sprocket is 39T
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama View Post
    Whoa, I'm lame! I meant the 4th pic, sorry.
    Cant remember the name of the trail, but it is inland around 1 hour from San D in Ca.... Fantastic trail, I love slow techy stuff like that terrain..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  25. #25
    steep fast and loose :)
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    orange bikes inner front ring size ?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks View Post
    orange bikes inner front ring size ?
    Sorry forgot that one, 26T....

    They look a bit worn to after counting them just then
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  27. #27
    steep fast and loose :)
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    whafe - how does the 26 front / 36 rear feel [as a granny ring] with the 29" wheels ?

    i'm in a dilemma whether to go 2x10 or 3x10 XTR.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks View Post
    whafe - how does the 26 front / 36 rear feel [as a granny ring] with the 29" wheels ?

    i'm in a dilemma whether to go 2x10 or 3x10 XTR.
    Would so go 2 x 10.... It is a good gearing package, I will say that the granny on the 2 x 10 (26 front & 36 rear) is not as granny as a 3 x 10. But once you get used to it, it is not missed if that makes sense..

    I would run this ratio again in the future for sure...

    In the longrun I will move the Monster Truck to a 1 x 10, as opposed to the current setup as a 1 x 9..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  29. #29
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    26 granny is nearer to a middle ring on a 26" than not. If you ride uphill long and steep you'll feel it over a long day, which is what the AC is supposed to be good at.

    Typically if you run single speed 32/16 on a 26" is the same as 32/18 on a 29"

    When I ride in the alps on a 60km+ day with 1500-2000m climbing, I'm glad of a granny on a 30lb bike.

    I run 26/38 on my RC bike and its fine but that's only 20lbs.It was fine on my Titus even for 24hr racing but again, 23lbs. Alot of the guys I ride with on the Enduro races in the alps run 1x10 with 32 fronts (26') are usually begging for a granny by 50km :-)
    Aka chainline...

  30. #30
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    pilot - my understanding is 34 at the rear equates to 36 at the rear.

    going to go 3x10 for full range even though i wanted 2x10........

  31. #31
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    But what good does you the big 44t chain ring of a triple crankset do? With a 29er mtb you will hardly ever pedal downhill with those huge gears; at least not off road and on road downhills are strictly prohibited

    I'd try to go 22/36 with an AM 29er. If that doesn't work out, you can either go for 24/36 or 22/34.

  32. #32
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    midgetman - totally agree, but Shimano XTR is only available in 26/38 front 2x10.

    SRAM rings are made from cheese and i don't want carbon arms.

  33. #33
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    You could use an XT crankset. If you cannot get it with Shimano chain rings, there are plenty of third party rings (TA, NC17, RF, ...) available you could choose from. If the 'budget' looks are a problem, you can have it anodized (or powder coated) somewhere (a friend of mine actually had a brand new XTR crankset black anodized because he wanted to combine it with SRAM gear). Actually I think the black XT crank looks all right.

    An XTR crankset would of course be the smoother solution in terms weight, looks, and -yes- prestige. On the other hand the XT crankset is not that much heavier and shifting performance should be pretty much en par - especially if you add some dirt and fatigue. So I guess going for an XTR crankset with a superfluous extra chain ring would be a poor choice in comparison.

  34. #34
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    TLR, how about a set of these: Rotorbike

    I've been using it the last three years, loving it. Stay clear of the BB though... disintegrated after three months.

  35. #35
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    aflatvad - interesting, but the big[ger] "S" get's my money....

    i know what to expect from the drive-train masters to be fair...

  36. #36
    steep fast and loose :)
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    midgetman - this build is pretty much a full spec / no compromise / etc

  37. #37
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    Yeah, I got that. However, going for a transmission that doesn't really make sense is pretty much of a compromise...

    The simplest solution would be 26/38 and more/better training
    29er and triple crankset: no way.

    What you could do is getting the 26/38 crankset plus a single XTR 24t chain ring and try to run a 24/38 setup.

  38. #38
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    i could run 24/38 no problem.

    i reckon 26 up front would be too tough up here in North East Scotland though, especially the 1st climb up the Fungle Road, Aboyne........

  39. #39
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    midgetman - forgot to say i'll run 11-36 rear cassette...

    thinking 26/38 may be do-able looking at the gear inches.....

    thoughts ?

  40. #40
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    If I was you TLR I would stick with a granny on the 29er unless your feeling very strong, after a long day you'll be glad of the option.

    The 29er is effectively two rear teeth higher compared to 26.

    By the xtr, put a TA specialities, or Hellore TI if budget is not an issue, 22, 36 on it or buy the big S saint rings in that size. The Saint runs 22/36 with a double front mech designed to span 14T range, coule that to a 36 rear and you will be running similar low gearing to a 26 triple, you're unlikley to need more than 36/11 in the high range.

    At the end of the day its still going to be a 28-29lb bike in all probability with a good build, its pretty good for a big bike but no one would describe it as light ;-)
    Aka chainline...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    If I was you TLR I would stick with a granny on the 29er unless your feeling very strong, after a long day you'll be glad of the option.

    The 29er is effectively two rear teeth higher compared to 26.

    By the xtr, put a TA specialities, or Hellore TI if budget is not an issue, 22, 36 on it or buy the big S saint rings in that size. The Saint runs 22/36 with a double front mech designed to span 14T range, coule that to a 36 rear and you will be running similar low gearing to a 26 triple, you're unlikley to need more than 36/11 in the high range.

    At the end of the day its still going to be a 28-29lb bike in all probability with a good build, its pretty good for a big bike but no one would describe it as light ;-)
    I can second all the above with my Niner Jet. The higher gearing is noticeable and keeping me from going to 2x10. It is also a big and heavy bike at 28 lb.

    Sent from my HTC Incredible using TapaTalk.

  42. #42
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    i see no point in going 2X10 either. I use the 29er slightly differently to my 26" bikes. With the AM, Fr etc, i tend to chuck them in the car and take them to the trails. with the ac29er i ride to the trails from home. that add's 10 mile to a bike run and i use the big ring(I run 3X9). once at the trails there's some decent big climbs where i need my 22 front and 34 rear. oh and there's also a 2 mile 40mph+ fireroad DH(my record is 49mph) and i definitely need the big ring for that!

    For me, anything less than 3X9 is a compromise and 3X10 does'nt really add anything i need

    its not hard to work out what you need. just ride your bike and think about what your doing.
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    flash bikes for flash gits

  43. #43
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    20.9 gear inches is what a 26 front / 36 rear gives on a 29er. that seems low enough for most of my riding............???

  44. #44
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    velocanman - 28lb is not a big heavy bike..........

  45. #45
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    Yes but it's no 20lb whippet, which I think is more like what he meant. But your a clever chap....

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianpinder View Post
    Yes but it's no 20lb whippet, which I think is more like what he meant. But your a clever chap....
    Why thanks... didn't know we'd met...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper View Post
    oh and there's also a 2 mile 40mph+ fireroad DH(my record is 49mph) and i definitely need the big ring for that!
    622-60 tire + 44x11 teeth + 40mph = >110rpm !!

    Sorry, but I kind of doubt that it really is the 44t chain ring that makes you go 40mph (not to speak of 49). It's the slope.

    And it actually doesn't matter. I mean where is the point in riding fire roads at maximum speed? If that descend was part of a race, OK, but I guess we are talking about an all mountain / touring bike here.

    In my experience double chainring systems simply work a bit smoother and you need to shift less. That's why I'd really spend some thoughts on it. Finding the perfect combination might also involve a bit of trial and error, but it pays off.

  48. #48
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    midgetman - i'm right with ya.

    would like the 26/38 XTR double and the 24 front ring as a back up, but will the XTR front mech cope with a 14 tooth jump if I need the 24 ring ??

  49. #49
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    I'm afraid that's the trial and error bit of it, but yes, I guess it will work.
    What you could try if it doesn't work is a Dura Ace road front derailleur since they have plain, straight plates and work with up to 18t jumps (16t being the conventional compact drive difference).

  50. #50
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    well , decision made.

    will go 2x10 on 26/38 to 11-36 cassette.

    the big 42 ring offers me no benefit....

    will suck it and see.

    start training on the singlespeed this weekend

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