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  1. #1
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    Totem or RC3 for 08 FR

    My FR is going away this week to be sprayed and the Lyriks are being serviced and put on Mrs Lornibear's Yeti 575. This leaves me in the market for some new forks.

    I have been offered a good deal on a set of 08 Maz 66 RC3, whilst my other option would be the totem. Both forks work out at the same price but I really am drawn to the RC3. I have spokent to my LBS who say if there are any problems with the RC3, they can get them turned around in a week, with no shipping charges, which is kind of reassuring.

    Next, does anybody know the difference in A - C length of both these forks? Would there be any problems in running the Maz on the FR?

    Many thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Tough choice Lorni and I only have experience of the Totems on my Helius so can't compare the two. A2C of the Totem is 565mm http://sram.com/_media/techdocs/2007...0Standards.pdf

    A2C of the 66's is pretty much identical at 564mm
    http://marzocchi.com/Template/listSP...LN=UK&Sito=mtb

    I reckon the will be very similar in performance. Both appear to be similar in weight and both are coil so it's down to personal preference in the end.

  3. #3
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    Many thanks yetiman, I have also posted a thread on the shocks and suspension forum questioning the Mazocchi weights. Any idea how the 09 66 RC3 is 261g?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetiman71
    Tough choice Lorni and I only have experience of the Totems on my Helius so can't compare the two. A2C of the Totem is 565mm http://sram.com/_media/techdocs/2007...0Standards.pdf

    A2C of the 66's is pretty much identical at 564mm
    http://marzocchi.com/Template/listSP...LN=UK&Sito=mtb

    I reckon the will be very similar in performance. Both appear to be similar in weight and both are coil so it's down to personal preference in the end.
    I would dispute the idea that based on A2C, similar springing methods, and similar travel that they will be similar in performance.

    For one, Zokes allow tuning of bottom out through oil height, while on the other hand, the Totem has the Floodgate between the LSC and HSC and has nothing beyond to adjust for BO control. I've also noted on the RS forks, while great performers, have that narrow range of tuning at a particular damper setting, so the settings seem to effectively cover less range than Zoke or Fox with shim stacks.

  5. #5
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    Hey JC, thanks for the reply. It all seems a bit of a faff having to alter oil levels to adjust bottom out. I rely on my LBS for all my major maintenance, as my mechanical know how is non existant. Out of the two forks, which one would better suit a rider of 230lb for general hard trail and bike park use?

  6. #6
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    I don't know, it depends on the usage. It's really not bad to adjust oil levels and know you have a really nice bath of tons of oil inside the fork keeping everything slick and wear free. The only outstanding issue is if Zoke cured their manufacturing issues from 08. If so, then they'll be a welcome competitor (although I'm not so hot about pricing).

    I would think the 66 would be nice, but you gotta ask to Totem folks who would use that particular spring for your weight what they feel, and just simply quantify the drops and stuff.

  7. #7
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    Since the issue of the broken Mz 55 ATA/TST (all (all) of them, BTW) in Spain, I must reccomend another brand than Mz. They're doing things so bad that none of us should buy a Mz fork for the next two or three years...
    Totem's great fork, but you will need 2 or 3 rides for "getting it", It's so stiff that your shoulders and wrists will complain a bit in the tecnhical sections the first days. Then, it's only "aim and shot". Without ask first.

  8. #8
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    Agreed, the 66 does look nice albiet a little heavy. I just don't want the hastle that others seemed to have gone through with the Marzocchi. I think that the Totem will be the fork of choice for me with an x firm spring. If it feels as nice as the Lyrik I have been using for the last two years, I will be a very happy man.

  9. #9
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    I cant talk about performance of the RC3. But i did spend a short period on a 66 rc2x which is supposed to be like their best single crown to date, and i wasnt to keen on it. It felt really average. More "mush" than a plush stroke (I know that sounds pathetic:P). I have tried the Totem and i loved it. Great smooth stroke and very controlled. If I were in your position id go for the Totem with stiffer springs.
    My ride impressions of both forks arent well described, but I found the Totem to be a far better fork. Best to try them out.

  10. #10
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    Totem

    I havent a nicolai( want a helius fr) but i have just fitted new 2009 totem coils to my bike and they are excellent.I have only ridden them for about 7 hrs and they are very plush.They seem very well made and are incredibly stiff( 1 1/8).I had lyric 2 step airs which i had no problems with but didnt like the lack of small bump response and the spongy feel of the air so i decided to move to coils and 180mm travel.They are a bit heavier but are a lot bigger and stiffer and for the type of riding i do they are excellent, they are a little bit sticky at the moment but are getting better with each ride.I havent played with the compression side of the damper yet but i will once they are bedded in.

  11. #11
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    Great news, thanks for the reply norcosam. Would love to hear a full review once you have given those totems a damned good thrashing. I had the lyrik coils prior and they were a fantastic fork, but for the majority of the riding I do, I don't need the travel adjust, in fact I don't think I have ever used it on the FR.
    The 180mm totem will lift the front end very slightly, but I think they are going to transform my bike and hopefully my riding. Mated with the CCdb on the rear, I think I am going to be a happy man.

  12. #12
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    totem

    Hi lornibear,

    I never used the 2-step on my my lyriks so went for a coil sprung totem.The 2009 totem coil has no travel adjust on it.I have them on my norco six (Older one without the melted tubes look) which has a quite laid back position when riding and a reasonably slack head angle.IT rides smoother than the lyriks already and i would imagine they will take a good 30 hrs to bed in properly.Its twinned with a dhx5 coil on the back which balances it out.CCDB sounds good have never tried a cane creek and one day will have to try one.

  13. #13
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    And let's not forget that the Totem looks the dogs bolx on the Helius FR. Shameless photo opportunity


  14. #14
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    Nice ride there Yetiman, as always.......just out of interest, how many mm in spacers do you have under your stem?

  15. #15
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    Sweet ride yetiman, but are you sure your from Abergloom that looks awfuly like sunshine in that photo!!!!

  16. #16
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    Yo bro.........now you know that I run the totem so will be biased but the 08 MArz were a bit of a disaster for Marz... just like the 07 totem was for RS. Go for the mature product in its second year.. either the 09 Marz or the 08/09 totem...

    The coil totem consistently gets good reviews.

    How much are you being offered the 08 marz for!

  17. #17
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    The marz has been offered for £550 and I can get the 09' totem online at Winstanleys for £560, so there is not a lot in it.

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    They are excellent prices my lbs couldnt even get close to that price on my totems,so i went elsewhere for them.

  19. #19
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    The totems were from the online shop. The marz are from the LBS, I am pretty much certain I am going to opt for the totems. The marz just seem a more problematic for my liking, even if the shop is five minutes drive from home. I like a fork that I can just get on and go, as I did my lyriks. I hope that Mrs Lornibear gets as much reliability as I did with them.

  20. #20
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    Lorni... is yours a 1.5 fr?

    If so grab these

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=30375

    type Winstanleys review into google before you buy from them.. not sure what they are like now but they did have a bad rep in the past.

  21. #21
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    Unfortunatly not, it's the 11/8. But thanks for the info, I will check them out first. I must admit, it seems a bit strange as CRC are normally the cheapest around, so how can Winstanleys under cut them by nearly £100?

  22. #22
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    I don't if this helps you, but id you don't mind ordering from the states, JensonUSA has the 08 66 RC3 on sale for £364 (575USD), and according to their site, shipping to UK is £25 (40USD). Not sure if you would get stuck paying taxes and import fees though....

    Anyway, Ive been riding an RC3 for about 6 months now, and have had no issues with it. Absolutely wonderful fork! I think you will be happy with either fork.

  23. #23
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    Not all bad with Winstanleys. When I was still in Cambridge I ordered a Rockshox Argyle for my DJ bike (because they were so cheap there). Arrived within 2 days, even though their website said it was not in stock.

    I wouldn't go for the Zocchi, simply because those cheap bastards sold out with moving all their production to China. Riding a Marzocchi, made by Suntour, muha . Plus, the 66 is one heavy bastard.

  24. #24
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    Thanks for the information there MattP. I have seen some of the deals at Jenson and have seriously considered them. However the last few weeks have put the pound in a precarious postition against the dollar, but saying that, £364 is a considerable reduction on RRP in UK.
    It's all a minefield, at least if I chose the Maz from my LBS, it's only a short trip to get them sent off for repair. I think I will leave it a few weeks and procrastinate until my decision becomes an impule purchase.

  25. #25
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    My totem coils are started to free up now (9hrs) been out this evening and done my favourite rocky descent and they smoothed it a treat.Better than my lyriks(air).I only have one gripe with the totem and thats when i checked the speed lube oil earlier one side had 20ml and the other only had about 5ml.Just brought a ti spring for the dhx as well and it seems to feel smoother at the back aswell.I am also thinking about formula the ones for my new brakes,200 front and 180 rear sounds good.The idea is to get all good stuff and then buy a nicolai helius fr frame and transfer all the items over to it.

  26. #26
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    Hey boozzz, I hear what you are saying......It's going to be the totem! Will order them in a few weeks time. Will keep you all posted

  27. #27
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    Norcosam, you can't go wrong with Formula brakes. Many people have their favourites, I went from some juicy 7s to the oro 18s. The lowest in the range and a bit of an experiment but, the best brakes I have ever had. Now wish I had got the ones, but you will be well chuffed with them.

  28. #28
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    Sometimes the simplest, most transparent options are the best ones there, like the k18's.

  29. #29
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    Lornibear-The only thing with the Fomula the ones are the price,they work out at £370 for the pair,thats expensive but i havent been happy with my hopes, never seemed to work that well, it maybe they are too small for me but they never had enough power.
    Jerk chicken-Didnt think about K18's they seem very good for the money will look into them a bit more.Thanks for that.They are about £105 each which is a big saving.They also look good aswell.

  30. #30
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    norcosam - I have the Ones minnar edition and they are indeed awsome brakes and do live up the the hype.

    Waaaaay more power than your hopes and the progression in the lever allows me to drag through fast sections scrubbing without every worrying that Im gunna lock up.. also they are very light. Really very good.

    However there are some negatives... The lever although trick is a bit flimsy, the pads don't have much clearance on discs, and I have managed to get a smigin of fade on long long alpine descnts... we are talking an hour or so of vert.

    If I pull together a big DH bike this year ill be taking a look at the new 09 saints as they are are supposed to be the kings of modulation and power right now.

  31. #31
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    Karve-Whats the difference between the ltd edition ones is it just colour?

    I had a norco team 2007 dh bike but sold it due to lack of use i had hope 6 pots on it with 200mm rotors they were excellent and would stop a bus.Also had a stinky supreme and a azonic recoil dh.
    Last edited by norcosam; 10-25-2008 at 05:35 AM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    Karve-Whats the difference between the ltd edition ones is it just colour?
    [/url]
    Yea nothing functional!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    Yea nothing functional!
    Just found a picture of the ltd edition look nice polished.I wanted to go for stealth black look on the bike.Unsure of cranks yet but have had a set of xt (ext bb) when first released and they have been excellent.

    Someone on here has nearly the exact build that i want.Except i have already got a set of Industry nine enduro wheels to fit.

  34. #34
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    In my mind i have a bike that looks similar to Tiki's but with the right rear shock on it,it dosent look right, the swing link should face towards the seat post.I already have totems,i9 wheels,thomson stem,Easton carbon dh bars.Xo shifter and mech all nearly new,i will order brakes tommorow.Its then just a matter of the helius fr frame which has just gone up by about £300.Just ran threw the price calculator and its over £2000 for frame and rear dhx5 coil shock.

    The shock from my six is the same 200x57 its a dhx5-a so i dont need a dhx for the minute just saved £350.

  35. #35
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    Hey norcosam, the FR frames are very expensive, but in my opinion, like many of the big names, you get what you pay for. You have a very nice parts list there already for the new build. I have been really pleased with my K18s, far far better than the Juicy carbons they replaced.
    What size and colour are you going to opt for? The problem is with Nicolai, there are just too many options and colours for you to make a simple decision. Like I said you won't regret it. Where in the UK are you from?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Hey norcosam, the FR frames are very expensive, but in my opinion, like many of the big names, you get what you pay for. You have a very nice parts list there already for the new build. I have been really pleased with my K18s, far far better than the Juicy carbons they replaced.
    What size and colour are you going to opt for? The problem is with Nicolai, there are just too many options and colours for you to make a simple decision. Like I said you won't regret it. Where in the UK are you from?

    Hi mate,
    I fancy something different frame wise ,something top end rather than run of the mill
    One ride around here and all you see are specialized enduros and alike and ususally all the gear and no idea , not bad bikes but like toes everyone has them.
    Size large and black anodized with 12mm rear.

    I am from cornwall way down in the south west.

  37. #37
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    Been out this afternoon with my totems and they are very plush now but i need a higher spring rate can bottom them with the high speed compression on fully.Hope they have some new springs in the uk.Dont know who the standard spring is made for but its not 16st of me doing a 5 ft drop to a slight down slope.

  38. #38
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    Agreed on that one. I am about ten pounds heavier than you and needed the x frim spring on my lyrik. Once thats done, I like to find a sweet spot and forget it. I am really looking forward to getting the totems now.
    With your choice of fork and colour, your ride will, I am sure look very much like Yetimans, a sweet ride. I am just looking forward to getting mine back from the powdercoaters and start building it up. I reckon mine will come in at about 37lb with the totems and a new heavier wheelset. I have opted for the syncros DS 28 to replace the rather thin 819's of previous. It's not until you put them up against each other you realise just how thin the 819's really are. They have done really well though.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Agreed on that one. I am about ten pounds heavier than you and needed the x frim spring on my lyrik. Once thats done, I like to find a sweet spot and forget it. I am really looking forward to getting the totems now.
    With your choice of fork and colour, your ride will, I am sure look very much like Yetimans, a sweet ride. I am just looking forward to getting mine back from the powdercoaters and start building it up. I reckon mine will come in at about 37lb with the totems and a new heavier wheelset. I have opted for the syncros DS 28 to replace the rather thin 819's of previous. It's not until you put them up against each other you realise just how thin the 819's really are. They have done really well though.

    I would like to see it at 35lbs.Which would suit me fine for an all day bike/do it all bike.I have i9 wheels but i also have a set of pro2's with ex823's and ti spokes which are also quite light.The mavic rims are far better than the dt5.1's on my industry nines and fit tubeless tyres better.

  40. #40
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    I am going back to tubes, I am always a little disapointed with the selection of UST tyres on the market, although it is getting better.

  41. #41
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    I am a maxxis man myself.Ignitor 2.35 during the dryer times and 2.35 super tacky swamp things in the winter for everything including 25 mile xc rides,They dont make a 2.35 super tacky in ust but if you carefully take off the rubber lumps with a dremmel and run sealent in them they are excellent tubeless.The trails i ride are very muddy and quite rocky so you need a strong tyre or run high pressures, and you need grip because a lot of it is quite steep.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Nice ride there Yetiman, as always.......just out of interest, how many mm in spacers do you have under your stem?

    Lorni - I'm running a 10mm and a 5mm spacer which seems to be just right for my riding style.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetiman71
    Lorni - I'm running a 10mm and a 5mm spacer which seems to be just right for my riding style.
    Many thanks for that yetiman, I was just working out your effective headtube length, Inclusive of any spacers, so yours is 140mm if my maths is correct. I do not run any spacers thus my XL frame is 145mm in the top tube, only 5mm in it. Just trying to picture how much higher my front end is going to be with the totem.

  44. #44
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    Totem

    Just been on the phone to TFtuned shox,spoke to Tim the owner and i have ordered a x-firm red spring,he said that the totem has the best damping system and should be very plush from the box,The bushings are already broken in so its only the seals which need a very small amount of running in, sometimes none.

    On the subject of seals there are still problems with the totem seals even on 2009 forks like i have and he recomended new seals (after giving him the number off mine) as they are still faulty.He changes all dirt seals on totems he sells.The seals are £15 and a spring £30 + postage so if you buy totems you might need to think about these extra costs.I weigh 225lbs so need an x-firm red spring.

    They are still the nicest forks i have used and are buttery smooth and i would still recomend them.

  45. #45
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    Thanks for the info there. I have looked on the TFTuned website and their price for the Totem coil is £699. This does include, as you stated, the correct spring, seals and delivery. Chain reaction cycles has the 09s in at £629, so tftuned are in the ball park. Thanks again for that info.

  46. #46
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    Totem

    I think it also includes a reduced service aswell.
    Seals and spring turned up today and have been fitted it now feels a lot stiffer.You can see the difference in the seals the new ones,the new ones have a slope which runs away from the stanchion and the old ones are level ,once removed they had already started to alow dirt ingress.Also the internal oil seal had been incorrectly assembled and had turned the lip on about 12mm of the damper side.

  47. #47
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    Norcosam, any chance you could email me some pictures of your forks and the new seals etc?

  48. #48
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    Yes mate no problems
    pm me your email address and i will get some today or tommorow.

    The seals are easily distinguishable by looking at the top of them.Better seals lips slope away trom the stanchion,old seal lips are at 90' to the stanchion and are flat all the way across.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    Just been on the phone to TFtuned shox,spoke to Tim the owner and i have ordered a x-firm red spring,he said that the totem has the best damping system and should be very plush from the box,The bushings are already broken in so its only the seals which need a very small amount of running in, sometimes none.

    On the subject of seals there are still problems with the totem seals even on 2009 forks like i have and he recomended new seals (after giving him the number off mine) as they are still faulty.He changes all dirt seals on totems he sells.The seals are £15 and a spring £30 + postage so if you buy totems you might need to think about these extra costs.I weigh 225lbs so need an x-firm red spring.

    They are still the nicest forks i have used and are buttery smooth and i would still recomend them.
    I too spoke to Tim today about my fork options. I suggested the VAN 36 RC2 to which he promptly replied 'at your weight, no way!' Evidently, the fox springs do not cater for riders much heavier than 210 pounds. This is why so many large VAN riders suffer bottoming their forks on the smallest of drops, or suffer excessive brake dive.

    This then brought me onto the air versions of the 36, the float and the TALAS. Whilst much improved and lighter than the VAN, they too are not great for the heavier rider. WIth the correct level of pressure, 'the forks will often leave around 10mm, thus not attaining full travel'. To combat this, one could adjust the pressure so that full travel is attained, but then the fork will wallow and suffer from brake dive and ride badly.

    He has suggested either the Lyrik or the Totem. Both spring rates are higher than that of Fox and are better suited to the heavier rider.

    So, after the lengthy post, I am going to purchase the Totems and I hope that they give me as much faithful service as my Lyriks did. I must add that I am no suspension guru, all the information was given by Tim, who knows much more than I. I would be interested to hear if anybody agrees with his points or indeed disagrees, but it's the totems for this FR.

  50. #50
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    Nice one mate

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