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  1. #1
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    Tailoring Range for ION and UFO

    Can anyone tell my how much and what I can change with the tailoring the geo option on those frames?

    Also If I was on the market for a max flickable and agile dh frame to work with my 888s 07 what would you suggest ION or UFO (lets not talk about the $$$ differance now ). Can you compare the susp feel on both?
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  2. #2
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    I have a UFO and have ridden a mates ION. I'd decide between the bikes depending on your normal trails. The UFO is alot more flickable and gives you alot of feedback so you know what the rear wheel is doing. This makes it easy to force into a drift when needed. It works well on any track but is more favourable choice for shorter technical courses. If you set the headangle slack using the adjustments it's very stable on high speed courses.

    The ION is pretty easy to chuck about compared to other multipivot 'hardcore' dh race frames I've used. It suits faster rougher tracks. It is more comfortable than the UFO.

  3. #3
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    What are the changes in different shock settings? In HA and BB height? So ufo feels flickable? Does it track at least relatively well? I'm thinking it vs. commencal supreme dh vs morewood makulu vs ION.

    ION is similar to other full dh frames but can you spot the differances from other frames you tried? Ie. Sundays, V10s, M3s, M6s ?
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  4. #4
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    If you are riding dh you'll have the UFO setup at full travel, so the only adjustment you have is the combined headangle/bb adjustment on the shock shuttle. Mine set slack was approx 63-64 degree HA and 13.5" BB which I liked on fast alpine tracks. The rear suspension tracks fine, never had an issue. The main difference over other designs is more pedal kick and slightly less comfort. I like this as you can tell what the rear wheel is doing. It's a dh bike you can easily kick into a drift or flick. It feels more like you can control it's path whereas some 'bigger' and plusher bikes seem to take over abit and plough.

    I've ridden M3's, VP frees, Glorys and the ION. All these multi pivot bikes vary alittle in geometry but the suspension action makes it harder to push the bike to the limit.

    If you have the money, I'd get the ION if comfort is an issue on 5min + steep dh runs. If you want to learn how to chuck a bike about better and your riding is on shorter less steep tracks, the ufo is going to be better.

    Nicolai define the bikes well, ION for WC big tracks, UFO for 'local' dh. Not that it's stopped me riding my UFO on a few WC tracks!

  5. #5
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    I'd go for UFO but I may be afraid it might be a too big leap for me (I ride now a lapierre with relatively long TT that has very long WB).
    The 13.5'' BB heigh on UFO was with what fork? 66's? I'm going to use 888 07 so 584mm Axle to crown. I'll slam it down as low as I can but still it wont be as low.
    BTW. Does this mean that besides the travel adjust you have the geo adjust on the shock mounts? Same for ION? Or not really?
    Did the ION felt at least a bit more agile than glory, m3 ? They seem to be a bit higher and have longer cs (short Cs is what tempts me with ION and UFO). Did it feel similarly low ? According to nickolai site it's only 5mm higher so around 0.25'' ie it would be at m6 height with that which seems very tempting.
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  6. #6
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    That was with a 2006 200mm 888. The travel is adjusted by moving the shock on the swingarm, geometry by move the shuttle on the front end, be careful that nothing can strike under full travel.

    The ION felt alot more agile than a glory or M3. The short chainstays of both bikes makes manualling easier. It's quite easy to manual the UFO a long way over roots/rocks without being capable of doing a proper flatland manual

  7. #7
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    Hi Norbar - I've already made some similar observations on part of the question you ask in the following threads:
    Just put the order in for my Ion ST
    FR - ST - Ion Questions
    My Ion is a large and being 6ft, I could easily have got away with a medium. I opted for the large because I wanted the extra room in the top tube. I spoke to Falco at Nicolai and he said that people at Nicolai in the 5-9 to 6ft camp ride a large if they want a more stable platform and a medium if they want something more 'flickable'. But even in a large, my Ion is just so maneuverable and carves tight corners effortlessly.
    Regarding custom geometry, I investigated this myself. Basically I wanted to drop the height of the seat tube on the large but for 250 for effectively a 1" drop, it seemed pointless. I then started to think about what else I would do - lower the BB a little, maybe eek out the chainstays to push the weight balance back. I spoke to Nicolai again and the message was basically, unless you REALLY know what you're doing, best leave the fundamentals of geometry alone - changing the seat tube height would not be a problem, but beyond that, you start to mess up the balance.
    I would encourage you to try a medium Ion - I think that maybe one of the two guys at Nicolai UK have a lovely white one that they didn't sell and may have built up into a personal bike, which I suspect they would let you test - assuming of course that you're in the UK? And I could be wrong about that frame - they may have sold it.
    As for the travel adjust, you can switch between 200mm and 230mm. You don't change the stroke so you'd have to increase your spring weight. Again, the race mechanic and one of the racers at Nicolai both said that no one they know uses the 230mm setting.
    Hope this helps.

  8. #8
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    Actualy I don't think lowering the bb would do sth bad with the balance. I'm thinking about ion MOSTLY because of the custom geo option as at 25mm it doesn't seem so low (should be around 14.2'' but it's probably for boxxer) and form what I know commencal is 28mm with 888 07 (584mm AC) and it has an adjustable HA so it can be lowered. Same for the other bike I'm looking at - morewood makulu which is 22mm. Both lower than the nicolai and that makes them win even if nicolai would take more trashing.

    BTW. You spoke to the uk guys from the distributor or the german guys at the factory? how long it takes for them to respond as my mail seems to be sending some spam and I'm not sure if the long time wait for a response is normal
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  9. #9
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    There are two ways in which manufacturers publish their BB heights. Nicolai do it the most objective way which is the height of the BB above the centre line, which is 1". Nicolai have said that this equates to 14" in actual terms but of course it depends on what tyres you're running. I've been told that if a bike maker publishes the actual height of the BB off the ground, then they do so without tyres, i.e. half the wheel height (13") + the height of BB above the centre line.

    At 14" the Ion's BB is about as low as you can go for what is still a standard production bike (I know that pro-racers go lower on their own machines).

    I actually spoke with both the UK guys and directly to Nicolai in Germany. The guys in Germany are quite happy to take calls and are super helpful.

  10. #10
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    Actualy their 14'' seems without tires but most companies bb height is close to the posted.
    I know 1'' rise wont be 14'' as frames with that stated lower came out to be higher than 14''. Also there are some race bikes that go sub 14 (mongoose, appalache, sunday, m6, fliped faith, corsair, commencal)
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