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  1. #1
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    ST Drivetrain (from ION thread).

    Hi guys,

    Yesterday a few of us started discussing the options for the ION but soon got sidetracked into discussing the front drivetrain options on the Helius ST. So, as we got a bit off topic, I thought we could discuss it in it's own thread.

    So my question to you all is this, how can you use the E Thirteen DRS with adaptor to allow a dual ring chainset on an ST and still get 200mm of travel.

    Using the following components of which Uncle Cliffy brought to my attention yesterday, how does it all work and does anybody have any pictures of it working?

    Many thanks to you all.
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  2. #2
    "Its All Good"
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    1 x 9 Baby.............. For the Helius ST....................... Seeing what the Helius FR can handle, the ST would be bomb proof..............
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    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Good idea Lornibear... I was going to do the same thing.

    I don't know if you saw, but I edited one of my posts yesterday and added a few pics of Helius ST's with the optional front derailleur tower. Here they are again. (like I said, it's TALL) Probably hits the tire at max travel I imagine...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  4. #4
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    So, with all these components, how does it all fit together? and indeed, will it work? Has anybody seen this combination used? (this is without the front mech mount)

  5. #5
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    If I am correct, the mech only has to sit 5mm above the large chainring. Looking at the pictures posted by Uncle Cliffy, we can see that there is a whole lot of mount not used. Could Nicolai not make this mount smaller, therefore givintg the rider more travel?

  6. #6
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    I have one of them install on my Balfa Two-step using a "Dual Pivot XTR braze on" (bolts to the E-13 plate) dérailleur and works really well.(as good as a seat tube for sure)

    I even try one on my M-pire to see what will happen, but the chainline was way to wacky to fit two rings with the 100Mm bottom bracket shell.

    I try to take photos of the balfa soon, is for sure a very viable alternative

  7. #7
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    Hey Patineto.....

    Quote Originally Posted by patineto
    I have one of them install on my Balfa Two-step using a "Dual Pivot XTR braze on" (bolts to the E-13 plate) dérailleur and works really well.(as good as a seat tube for sure)

    I even try one on my M-pire to see what will happen, but the chainline was way to wacky to fit two rings with the 100Mm bottom bracket shell.

    I try to take photos of the balfa soon, is for sure a very viable alternative

    Many thanks Patineto, 'its all good' (to steal Whafes phrase). I would love to see your set up so pictures would be great. Having looked at the ST frame, do you think it's a viable option?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Many thanks Patineto, 'its all good' (to steal Whafes phrase). I would love to see your set up so pictures would be great.
    I'm at my Girlfriends house for the weekend so pictures are going to take some time..

    Having looked at the ST frame, do you think it's a viable option?
    The biggest issue on the Balfa was to hold the end of the shifter cable firmly so the shifting work property, at the most you will need zip ties to hold it to the frame

    It can be done very nicely and un-intrusive if you pay atenccion.


    And maybe a little dremmel work (Drill whatever) at the e-13 plate to mounta cable stop as far away as possible from the dérailleur mount for better cable angle.

    I don't see why not it will not work "okay" on the ST, unless the frame has one of this super wide 100MM wide like my Nicolai M-pire

    looks to me like the ST has a 73mm, hopefully the chainline will be okay, the main issue is that the chainrings need to stay on the OUTSIDE of the E-13 plate (at least 3mm away from the plate to clear the chain and the derreiluer movement), when in many normal multichainring bikes the inner ring is at the same distance as the right bottom bracket shell (seating inwards on top of the frame Bottom bracket) not 6mm to 8milimiter outwards (4MM for the Plate and some more for the chain clearance) that will make for a pretty bad chain line, specially from the big chainring, but if the Bottom bracket is narrow maybe will be no chain line problems.

    Sorry my brain is more useless than usual today.

  9. #9
    a tight kick sound
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    Cliffy,
    You don;t have to worry about the tire hitting the post.
    The problem comes when the front der mech slamms into the CS!
    That was the limiting factor as far as travel was concerned on the UFO ST.
    That thing can only got to like 7.3"s with a front der attached.

    I was ok with this set up. I never really needed to climb or use a dual front ring
    with more than 7" in the rear anyway. Made for some tough riding!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by boone
    Cliffy,
    You don;t have to worry about the tire hitting the post.
    The problem comes when the front der mech slamms into the CS!
    That was the limiting factor as far as travel was concerned on the UFO ST.
    That thing can only got to like 7.3"s with a front der attached.

    I was ok with this set up. I never really needed to climb or use a dual front ring
    with more than 7" in the rear anyway. Made for some tough riding!
    I figured it was one or the other... If the front derailleur is too close I could see how it would hit. (I haven't used a FD on a full squishy for, well never.) I am wanting a Helius ST I think (one of many bikes on a LONG list) and would run a single ring for sure... Also, 180mm rear travel is fine for the riding I do anyway. I am curious just the same; why is that post thingy so damn long?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  11. #11
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    The only reason I could guess for that that thing being so long:

    In diff travel setting you can move it up and down to adjust it pretty tight. For longer travel settings you are gonna wanna have that sucker pretty high. Mine wasn't all that long. I think the whole thing is like 4-5"s long. You could always cut it down if you know exactly where you will be running it. It is just a hollow tube I think? At least the UFO one is.

  12. #12
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    Patineto

    Thanks bro for your technical info. I will be honest, looking at the problems and work that may be involved, if I build an ST for next years project, I think I would run the dual ring with the front mech post, perhaps even a single ring. As Uncle cliffy said, 180mm would be more than enough for me and from what Err said, the leverage ratio and geometry would make is feel so much different to my muscle bound FR.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by boone
    The only reason I could guess for that that thing being so long:

    In diff travel setting you can move it up and down to adjust it pretty tight. For longer travel settings you are gonna wanna have that sucker pretty high. Mine wasn't all that long. I think the whole thing is like 4-5"s long. You could always cut it down if you know exactly where you will be running it. It is just a hollow tube I think? At least the UFO one is.
    Maybe it's for running a 58t triple crankset ala 1992 John Tomac Kamikaze?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  14. #14
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    Actually swing arm clearance was the reason I end up with the E-13 dérailleur compatible guide.

    But before that I "Modied" a cheap XT dérailleur to make the cage smaller since i was not using a big ring and I can move the whole cage downwards.


    i took about a inch from the bottom of the cage by cutting, bending and then brassing the metal back togheter.


    kind of a Hack Job, but is being working well since I made it 3 years ago on another balfa Two-step I have.


    The only reason i dump this system is because the E-13 guide can be rotated forward a little with out making a mess and also have better chain line (Is a little narrower) than the dual chaining style guide.

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