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  1. #1
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    Slacker head angles

    I've only ever heard good reports about going slacker and as nicolai have jumped on the band wagon and raked out a lot of the range I thought I'd give it a whirl with my 'old' AFR

    I've only had a couple of rides on it since fitting the angleset but so far im not overly impressed. Prior to this I was loving the new found front end grip and feedback from the Bos Ndee's. Now I can't get it to turn and when it does turn, it won't grip!

    I'm running the full 1.5deg slacker cup. Mainly as the fork crown will hit the DT with less. For reference, These old afr's(and Am's) have a shorter HT so the zero stack angle set is not really compatible. Im also having to run a couple of spacers above the lower cup to get the clearance.

    I suspect it takes a more aggressive riding style, getting more weight over the front to get grip so ill give it a while yet to see if I can adapt. It looks knarly though

    So anyone else tried it and not liked it?
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  2. #2
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    Only 2 rides on my 64 degree AM

    I haven't had any issues regarding front end grip. Will see in the future when trails are better though.

  3. #3
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    CC are going to produce/testing a 1 1/8th angleset at the moment. Could be interesting. I have no issues but am intreagued!

  4. #4
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    I found on the ION,i needed to get a long way forward and keep plenty of weight on the forks.It then alows you to corner very well,once you get used to the fact that it feels weird and it makes you think you are going to crash.

    shortish stem with no rise and low(flat bars) i think would be best,and a wide bar would help

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot
    CC are going to produce/testing a 1 1/8th angleset at the moment. Could be interesting. I have no issues but am intreagued!
    Theres a lad in the Turner forum who has his own little workshop, he's been making them to peoples spec for a little while now, seems to have pretty good feedback

  6. #6
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    @Wouk I remember that and had a couple of goes at finding the thread/link but failed. A deep cup version, mmmm. Stoy/Deville mmm :-)

  7. #7
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    Thread in turner forum
    5 spot with ~67 deg. HTA (or maybe a bit less)

    The x-post
    Head tube angle change on a 1.1/8"

    Haven't read them lately, will skim over them after posting this

  8. #8
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    I've decided to give them ago, a deep cup version for the AM reducing the HA from 67.7 to the current 2011 geo of 66.5deg.

    Will feedback when I have it.

  9. #9
    "Its All Good"
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    Slacker HA = W I D E R Bars
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10
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    @whafe I'm a convert :-) running 50mm point one stem/780mm Answer Pro Taper bars on the Nic.
    65mm Sunline stem/760mmchromag OSX on my Evil Sovereign 160mm forked XC bike ;-) slightly more stretched for racing duties, slightly narrower for forest singletrack to whack fewer trees ;-)

    I went from 70mm/685 on the Nic when I bought it and the difference is huge, I wouldn't say the Nic felt 'twitchy' but it gave me a shock how fast the steering felt. Took a bit of getting used to.

    Dipper are you running short stem/wide bars on your newly slacked bike? I found it really encourages an over the front cornering style. I used to be a bit wary of that, did feel like I was going to fall off, with previous setups and I was further back on the bike, the setup changes that 'feeling'. Worth a try in my opinion, I couldn't go back now.

  11. #11
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    Here's the link. Must say Saar has been great to deal with, very quick response, his feedback does seem good.

    For any pre 2011 AM owners with 1 1/8th headrubes, this is a way to get current geo. Order from the weblink below.
    The max HA reduction is dependent on the HT length, shorter HT more reduction can be achieved. But for AM -1.2deg is no problem.

    http://www.ofanaim.net/has.html

  12. #12
    from 0 - sideways 3.2 sec
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    I wonder if i could get one for my 1.5" headtube and cone head forks?

    Its on z AFR too.
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  13. #13
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    One thought for using an angle reducer cup on the older Helius AMs (whether they are 1 1/8th" or 1.5") is that it would allow you to use a shorter A2C fork, like a 150mm Fox Float 32.

    My experience of that fork is that it's more than capable of handling anything that a UK trail centre could offer it and probably most of what the natural riding in the Lakes, Scotland and Wales could offer.

    The biggest value to running that fork is that it knocks almost 1lb off even a Fox 36 Float, maybe twice that if you're running a Lyrik.

    On the older AMs however, the shorter A2C of the Float 32, even the 150mm travel version, drops the front end of the bike quite a bit and makes it prone to tucking under, especially on steep, tight turns.

    If you could rake the HA back by one degree, this would compensate for that and potentially allow you to run the Float 32 quite successfully.

  14. #14
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    1.5 is a lot to slack it out mate .5 can make a reasonable difference

    Now I can't get it to turn and when it does turn, it won't grip"
    I suspect it takes a more aggressive riding style, getting more weight over the front to get grip so ill give it a while yet to see if I can adapt. It looks knarly though
    in order to get the front end of my slack dh bike to grip then I have to get over the front and attack - it requires a different style but makes me faster downhill - if I try and ride it like my FR then the front washes out all over the place.

    The ideal position on your bike on flat terrain is the centre (right between the wheel axles) and you move back and forward to adjust to the terrain changes. In slacking the front end you have essentially moved your required centre forward while moving your bars back a little (forcing you further back). If you dont adjust your riding position by moving forward to compensate for these changes it will have the same effect as riding off the back all the time which will result in a vague front end.

    Also with the forks raked it requires a more aggressive drive from the arms to keep it planted but vice versa the same size shock through the bars will feel less harsh.

    Slacker HA = W I D E R Bars
    true true - the reason this works is that wider bars pull you forward and force you back into the centre position.
    Last edited by Karve; 03-10-2011 at 03:49 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Good explanation. Thanks

  16. #16
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    Yeah 1.5 is a lot but unfortunately i can't reduce it as I loose Dt clearance due to the flush angleset. I'm getting used to it though and it definitely gives confidence through rough stuff. I'm running a 65mm stem and 680 bars. It takes a bit of bottle to load up the front in corners but I'm getting there
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    Yeah 1.5 is a lot but unfortunately i can't reduce it as I loose Dt clearance due to the flush angleset. I'm getting used to it though and it definitely gives confidence through rough stuff. I'm running a 65mm stem and 680 bars. It takes a bit of bottle to load up the front in corners but I'm getting there
    "680mm bars"........seriously? bit narrow for you aren't they!

  18. #18
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    Yeah yeah! I meant 780 or whatever these rf atlas flat bars are. Smart arse!
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  19. #19
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    @dipper, go 50mm

  20. #20
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    Good to see you playing around with this Dipper. I've had my AFR at 66*, 65*, 64.5*, and 65.5* with various shock, fork, and headset configurations. My BB has bounced around from 13.25 to 14.5" in conjunction with these HTA changes. In general, I favor slack angles, even for my trail bikes. I felt that the AFR was a very average bike in the 66* setting but really came alive when slacked out. I had my newest frame setup at 64.5* for Whistler last year and it absolutely killed the jump lines and mild-medium tech. I currently have a 160 on it, sitting with a very low BB and a 65.5* HTA. Such a fun bike when setup low and slack...

    I think others have already steered you in the right direction but lower, wider bars will help you weight the front end. You might even want to adjust your suspension slightly over what feels good with a steep HTA.

    On cornering, lean more, steer less and keep your weight over the front end. Move away from the bad habit of riding off the back of the bike and instead stay centered and low. You'll find that you have much more control to choose and change lines as well as react to bad situations. It will all come together with just a bit practice.

  21. #21
    "El Whatever"
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    Fabien Barel agrees... Slack is good.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Slacker head angles-1326fabien_barel_summum_pt.jpg  

    Check my Site

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Fabien Barel agrees... Slack is good.
    Wow! That's slack!

  23. #23
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    Another route..I've gone with a headset but I can see how this works and it's cheap, don't let TLR know tho or the pedal strike demons will rise within :-)
    http://dirt.mpora.com/news/slacken-head-angle.html

  24. #24
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    I saw that yesterday. I'd be keen to slacken off my Helius AC a bit.

    Anyone know if it's possible without any issues?

  25. #25
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    Don't know about any issues Chris. The headset route certainly doesn't have issues. I should get mine this week but its more expensive obviously.

    Cant think of any issues, clearance and making sure it doesn't make the shock interfere with the frame, don't think thats a problem with a CC. Obviously the mechanism for this geo change lowers the BB so that could introduce pedal strike as an issue and shorten the wheelbase slightly.

    Its kinda cheap enough and easy enough to fit to suck it and see, if the clearance is there I cant see it breaking anything. If you don't like it you can go back. Where as its an expensive mistake if I don't like it with the headset. Although aim sure that wont be the case.

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